If P*mpey get wound-up on Friday :Poll:

[StuRomseySaint]

Would you like the club to appeal on the grounds of O'Hara, Tosic and Abeye being purchased whilst the club is insolvent... meaning they gained an unfair advantage by playing players they couldn't afford? It is an appeal we would almost certainly win and would almost certainly be reinstated if that's the route we wanted to take.

 

The 2 options the FA have in the event of being liquidated is to either offer Birmingham a bye or reinstate us to play Birmingham.

 

I say give Birmingham the bye, we lost the game so let Birmingham have a bye.

 

Having said that, it would rub salt into a very painful wound if we were reinstated and went on to beat Birmingham.

 

Poll?

 

1) Reinstate us.

 

or

 

2) Give Birmingham a bye.

[Saint_clark]

Won't happen on friday because the actual court date is march the 1st, but it would be funny if we were reinstated.

[MongoNeil]

We lost the match, end of. Lets move on a focus on the league.

[BarnetSaint]

to reinstate us would just be the best thing which could ever happen,sadly wont happen tho.

[StuRomseySaint]

Won't happen on friday because the actual court date is march the 1st, but it would be funny if we were reinstated.

 

Well ok, but we will know by Friday if they are going to the dogs.

[Junior Mullet]

Well ok, but we will know by Friday if they are going to the dogs.

 

Am I missing something? I thought we would not know until 1st March or perhaps even later if they manage to keep wriggling.

[iansums]

Well ok, but we will know by Friday if they are going to the dogs.

 

Why? What's happening on Friday? The court hearing is on March 1st :confused:

[Gemmel]

Well ok, but we will know by Friday if they are going to the dogs.

 

You might get a leak from Fratton or even Vantis, but I doubt it. Unless of course Directors resign, then we will know what the statement of affairs says, but I think we will be waiting until the 1st for any news.

[Saints67]

Why? What's happening on Friday? The court hearing is on March 1st :confused:

Friday is when the cheque from the Premier League clears.

[Dog]

I have a bottle of Bollinger gathering dust in my wine rack. If the skates get hooked and tossed back to die, I will crack it open and celebrate.

[Whitey Grandad]

Give Birmingham a bye, but ask for compensation for losing money from the 6th round?

[StuRomseySaint]

Give Birmingham a bye, but ask for compensation for losing money from the 6th round?

 

Good idea. And make AFC P*mpey pay it.

[Scudamore]

to reinstate us would just be the best thing which could ever happen,sadly wont happen tho.

 

The best thing which could have happened would have been to beat Pompey...

[dubai_phil]

In answer to the OP.

 

We should appeal.

 

We should decline any request to play Brum so they get a bye.

 

However we should DEMAND that the prize money for Saturday is paid to us OR better into a charity for disadvantaged old footballers (such as the Kevin Moore fund)

[Foxstone]

Not withstanding the fact we lost anyway, it is not feasible to re-instate us when Sunderland and Coventry would also have a claim to be re-instated should it be proven that Poopey were trading illegally for a reasonable period of time - Like from the start of the season

 

Brum to get a bye

[madsent]

Why? What's happening on Friday? The court hearing is on March 1st :confused:

 

My understanding is that the court date is provisionally set for March 1st IF they come up with a statement of affairs by tomorrow that documents how their finances are at present and how they intend to pay all their creditors, including HMRC. Since the judge has already deemed them to be insolvent, I'd guess they would be wound up if such a document wasn't produced.

[Fan The Flames]

Anyhow the players might have been bought with bad credit but they were not illegible to play, the only grounds for any appeal I would have thought.

[StuRomseySaint]

Not withstanding the fact we lost anyway, it is not feasible to re-instate us when Sunderland and Coventry would also have a claim to be re-instated should it be proven that Poopey were trading illegally for a reasonable period of time - Like from the start of the season

 

Brum to get a bye

 

Brum to get a bye yes, but if we wanted to appeal, we would almost certainly win it.

[StuRomseySaint]

Anyhow the players might have been bought with bad credit but they were not illegible to play, the only grounds for any appeal I would have thought.

 

Trading whilst insolvent is illegal, therfore any loan purchases which carry an addition to the wage bill would be deemed illegal.

[benjii]

I vote we get reinstated just for the comedy value of the Pompey fans having to swallow that. (But they won't get wound-up on Friday, although they might go into admin tommorrow).

[Matthew Le God]

We lost the match, end of. Lets move on a focus on the league.

 

O'Hara and Quincy both scored.

 

If they were insolvent it was illegal for them to be playing for them.

[Hatch]

cancel the whole FA cup competition due to Pompey cheating, then make them refund every single persons ticket for every round for every club. Then put redknapp and storries in prison.

[Glasgow_Saint]

If Pompey beat us 4-1 Birmingham would most likely win 6-0 that would not be good for confidence!

[Matthew Le God]

If Pompey beat us 4-1 Birmingham would most likely win 6-0 that would not be good for confidence!

 

Well the League Cup 2nd round game this season was close between Saints and Brum.

[Hatch]

Tranmere away is more appealling than a FA Cup quarter final anyway

[Kingsland Red]

It could be Friday as trading whilst insolvent is a legal issue.

It is the HMRC financial case that is going to court on 1st March.

As I posted in the lounge, if Vantis submitted a report to EPL then why did the EPL allow Pompey to bring in players?

if they are fielding ineligible players then they should be kicked out.

[St Landrew]

Nic try Stu. My advice would be to let it go. We lost. Another day we'll win.

[Matthew Le God]

Nic try Stu. My advice would be to let it go. We lost. Another day we'll win.

 

Yes, but what helped us lose?

 

O'Hara and Quincy both played and scored and if the club was insolvent they shouldn't have signed.

 

Did Pompey win fair and square sing players they shouldn't have?

 

Games have been replayed when a player is ineligible. If Pompey are wound up then a replay can't happen, Saints should go through.

[Joensuu]

You might get a leak from Fratton or even Vantis, but I doubt it. Unless of course Directors resign, then we will know what the statement of affairs says, but I think we will be waiting until the 1st for any news.

 

Considering that their only hope of survival is if a new investor comes alone, I think it's safe to assume that if we haven't heard of a new investor by Friday, that they are destined for liquidation.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I thinnk we should appeal, but not play Brum as I feel we should concentrate on the league now. We don't need the money so claim the money back and put it inti a Charity.

[Foxstone]

I thinnk we should appeal, but not play Brum as I feel we should concentrate on the league now. We don't need the money so claim the money back and put it inti a Charity.

 

 

Storrie-Aid ?

[Ken Tone]

Considering that their only hope of survival is if a new investor comes alone, I think it's safe to assume that if we haven't heard of a new investor by Friday, that they are destined for liquidation.

 

Well except that, now the court hearing isn't on Friday as originally implied, but not until March, there is presumably time for another 'rich sheikh' to appear before the end of the month. (Mind out for that low-flying pig btw!)

 

Not sure what happens to the papers that they are required to lodge tomorrow, between tomorrow and March 1st. Do they just sit there? Or does a court official look at them?

 

Personally, am increasingly of the view that the Premiership will promise money to HMRC so they can play out the season, then abandon them to their fate in the summer, be it liquidation or administration. (They'll be even less attractive to a buyer by then, as the first year's parachute money will have gone to HMRC)

 

K.

[Foxstone]

Well except that, now the court hearing isn't on Friday as originally implied, but not until March, there is presumably time for another 'rich sheikh' to appear before the end of the month. (Mind out for that low-flying pig btw!)

 

Not sure what happens to the papers that they are required to lodge tomorrow, between tomorrow and March 1st. Do they just sit there? Or does a court official look at them?

 

Personally, am increasingly of the view that the Premiership will promise money to HMRC so they can play out the season, then abandon them to their fate in the summer, be it liquidation or administration. (They'll be even less attractive to a buyer by then, as the first year's parachute money will have gone to HMRC)

K.

 

 

But I think that requires approval from the 19 other members of the Prem, and obtaining that approval is far from certain.

[saintjay77]

It would be great to appeal and Win as it would just show Poopy up even more and show that they cant get anywhere without trying to bend the rules.

 

As for us being re-instated or not I think we should let Brum have the bye and be done with it.

 

We lost on the day due to not putting away our chances. If we had the likes of Quincy and O'Hara wouldnt have had the room on the break and we would have had numbers back to defend.

 

The scoreline wont matter a jot if its proved Poopy were there illegally so we can hold our heads high while they disapear to sunday league football.

[lordswoodsaints]

Even taking into account that both the 'suspect' players scored they still beat us 2-1.

 

I don't know what the legalities of it are but I think we should let it lie......Pompey have darker days ahead of them with or without our involvment.

[Ken Tone]

But I think that requires approval from the 19 other members of the Prem, and obtaining that approval is far from certain.

 

No that would be if they paid the HMRC now. That isn't going to happen

 

What seems more likely is that the prem will show HMRC proof that pompey will eventually get the parachute payments at least, ie guaranteeing that they will have enough money to pay off their debts to HMRC, if not to everyone else. The question then becomes how can HMRC be assured that it will be them that gets the money, not someone else.

 

*If* HMRC believe that, it makes sense for them to wait a few more months for all their money rather than wind the club up now and get a few pence in the pound. The premiership's motive is that they will be determined for the whole season's fixtures to be played rather than to have to deal with the consequences of a club stopping mid-season.

 

So in my opinion pompey's fate depends solely on whether/how the premiership can give HMRC first call on that money.

 

Oh, plus of course on all those investors Storrie has beating a path to his door ;-)

 

K.

[FloridaMarlin]

But I think that requires approval from the 19 other members of the Prem, and obtaining that approval is far from certain.

 

They might have got that approval had they not signed Tosic last Friday.

 

A mate who works at the Prem reckons enough clubs were prepared to cut Pompey a bit of slack vis-a-vis early stumping up of parachute payment to push through Scudamore's desperate ring-round of clubs.

 

But when they signed Tosic, it was effectively sticking two fingers up to everyone; Prem league, fellow PL clubs and also to the court and taxman who will almost certainly want to know why a club that is operating insovently, can take another burden on a wage bill they already struggle to meet.

 

Other clubs felt p****y could and should have done more to ease their debts during the transfer window, but chose not to. Having seen P****y then go and sign another player they don't see why they should be given any sort of advantage by running up debts.

 

And if anyone seriously believes that Tosic has agreed to play for £750 a week, they are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

 

Of all the own goals they have scored this year, their biggest could have been signing Tosic.

 

Even if his signing was agreed before the court hearing, the fact they decided to add him to their wage bill simply sent out the wrong message to everyone, and they may yet live to regret it.

[OldNick]

How about a replay against players who are elegible, so Alan Knight in goal etc etc . Seems a fair way to me.

[lordswoodsaints]

No that would be if they paid the HMRC now. That isn't going to happen

 

What seems more likely is that the prem will show HMRC proof that pompey will eventually get the parachute payments at least, ie guaranteeing that they will have enough money to pay off their debts to HMRC, if not to everyone else. The question then becomes how can HMRC be assured that it will be them that gets the money, not someone else.

 

*If* HMRC believe that, it makes sense for them to wait a few more months for all their money rather than wind the club up now and get a few pence in the pound. The premiership's motive is that they will be determined for the whole season's fixtures to be played rather than to have to deal with the consequences of a club stopping mid-season.

 

So in my opinion pompey's fate depends solely on whether/how the premiership can give HMRC first call on that money.

 

 

 

Oh, plus of course on all those investors Storrie has beating a path to his door ;-)

 

K.

 

Won't that require a change of the Prem league rules/constitution if they promise HMRC their money over everybody else?

 

I thought this was the reason HMRC aggressively hounding football clubs at the moment,because they are not number one in the pecking order?

[Foxstone]

No that would be if they paid the HMRC now. That isn't going to happen

 

What seems more likely is that the prem will show HMRC proof that pompey will eventually get the parachute payments at least, ie guaranteeing that they will have enough money to pay off their debts to HMRC, if not to everyone else. The question then becomes how can HMRC be assured that it will be them that gets the money, not someone else.

 

*If* HMRC believe that, it makes sense for them to wait a few more months for all their money rather than wind the club up now and get a few pence in the pound. The premiership's motive is that they will be determined for the whole season's fixtures to be played rather than to have to deal with the consequences of a club stopping mid-season.

 

So in my opinion pompey's fate depends solely on whether/how the premiership can give HMRC first call on that money.

 

Oh, plus of course on all those investors Storrie has beating a path to his door ;-)

 

K.

 

 

But is it not the courts main bone of contention that Poppy are trading while insolvent ?

HMRC might be promised the advance TV money to satisfy their requirements but the fact still remains that Poppy are trading illegally and that is what the court will consider above all?

 

As for the investors, did'nt some benevolent Saints fans "offer him some money on Saturday" but he did not feel inclined to accept it ? LOL...

Edited 16 February, 2010 by Foxstone

[lordswoodsaints]

How can the premier league advance the parachute payment to Pompey? It isn't yet written in stone that they will get relegated? Ok they are 99% relegated but they could perform a miracle and get out of trouble....then what?

 

Although there are clubs that are prepared to cut Pompey a bit of slack and allow a loan to go through (probably the clubs who are also close to going bust) I doubt very much the prudent clubs would agree to it.....why should they,they have run a tight ship and managed to stay solvent so why allow a club that has basically cheated get into more debt? That's like telling a drugged up athlete to carry on taking enhancment drugs.

[Foxstone]

How can the premier league advance the parachute payment to Pompey? It isn't yet written in stone that they will get relegated? Ok they are 99% relegated but they could perform a miracle and get out of trouble....then what?

 

Although there are clubs that are prepared to cut Pompey a bit of slack and allow a loan to go through (probably the clubs who are also close to going bust) I doubt very much the prudent clubs would agree to it.....why should they,they have run a tight ship and managed to stay solvent so why allow a club that has basically cheated get into more debt? That's like telling a drugged up athlete to carry on taking enhancment drugs.

 

Wolves and Wigan are already agnostic towards the suggestion..

[JonnyLove]

Give Brum a Bye. (It's called taking the high ground)

[Thedelldays]

appeal...just to get the result wiped off the history books..lol

[Ken Tone]

How can the premier league advance the parachute payment to Pompey? It isn't yet written in stone that they will get relegated? Ok they are 99% relegated but they could perform a miracle and get out of trouble....then what?

 

Although there are clubs that are prepared to cut Pompey a bit of slack and allow a loan to go through (probably the clubs who are also close to going bust) I doubt very much the prudent clubs would agree to it.....why should they,they have run a tight ship and managed to stay solvent so why allow a club that has basically cheated get into more debt? That's like telling a drugged up athlete to carry on taking enhancment drugs.

 

The premier league have pretty much already said that they won't *advance* the payments. (Not least because it would require a change of rules and some other clubs wouldn't agree to that. )The talk now is of them promising them to HMRC when they become due.

 

And the promise would be that at least pompey would get the parachute payments. They would of course get more in the unlikely event of them not being relegated.

 

As i said before they don't want to have to deal with all the questions over what to do with the lost league points if pompey go out of business during a season. After the season ends the premiership will wash their hands of them ... they become a league problem anyway.

 

K.

[Scummer]

How can the premier league advance the parachute payment to Pompey? It isn't yet written in stone that they will get relegated? Ok they are 99% relegated but they could perform a miracle and get out of trouble....then what?

 

If they don't get relegated, they wouldn't get the parachute payment. But they would get the money for being in the premier league, which is presumably more than the parachute payment anyway. So one way or another they'd be getting at least that much money.

[Thedelldays]

we should have asked for an advance in january 2005..maybe we could have signed better defenders and stayed up...we went down due to one goal

[saintsdan]

No that would be if they paid the HMRC now. That isn't going to happen

 

What seems more likely is that the prem will show HMRC proof that pompey will eventually get the parachute payments at least, ie guaranteeing that they will have enough money to pay off their debts to HMRC, if not to everyone else. The question then becomes how can HMRC be assured that it will be them that gets the money, not someone else.

 

*If* HMRC believe that, it makes sense for them to wait a few more months for all their money rather than wind the club up now and get a few pence in the pound. The premiership's motive is that they will be determined for the whole season's fixtures to be played rather than to have to deal with the consequences of a club stopping mid-season.

 

So in my opinion pompey's fate depends solely on whether/how the premiership can give HMRC first call on that money.

 

Oh, plus of course on all those investors Storrie has beating a path to his door ;-)

 

K.

 

 

Problem with that is the parachute payment may cover their current debt to HMRC but by the end of the season they will have paid (or not!) the salaries for February, March, April and May. The associated PAYE and NI payments mean that by the end of May they will owe HMRC an additional 6-7M which they won't be able to pay.

[Scummer]

we should have asked for an advance in january 2005..maybe we could have signed better defenders and stayed up...we went down due to one goal

 

Which goal?

[Whitey Grandad]

Wolves and Wigan are already agnostic towards the suggestion..

Antagonistic?