So What's Changed?

[Liquidshokk]

I find it quite amazing that one man can replace another in his role and have the impact that Adkins has had on the team.

 

What key bullet points have turned this team around from the one that made me want to cry during the JPT match against Swindon. It's the same team out there (pretty much).

 

What has Adkins done that Wilkins failed to do so badly?

 

Interested to hear thoughts on a technical/sports level or on a physcology level as IMO the players couldn't have really sank that low just because pardew was sacked?! They were/are still bloody good players. Was it purely a confidence thing?! I can't imagine I would lose confidence that easy if someone was paying me 5k a week!

 

Bullet points from you now please

[The9]

Effort.

 

That's it.

[braveheart1983]

Clear leadership and organisation of exactly how he wants players to play together.

[The9]

I kind of agree with motivation, but other than getting them running more and working harder, and getting Lallana back (which all makes a huge difference), the only difference I've noticed is that Puncheon passes the ball more quickly.

 

As far as psychology goes, I can't imagine losing the manager they won something under was a motivator, especially right after winning 4-0, and knowing the next guy was a caretaker wouldn't have given his say-so much weight.

[Liquidshokk]

Effort.

 

That's it.

 

Surely the players would have been putting in effort even during the low points. Afterall they are professionals, they want to continue getting a ridiculous wage and want to get noticed by other clubs. Only a fool in that position would give up in the way the team did around the time of the sacking.

 

The only reason I dont put in 110% at work is because I'm paid too little to care.

[Liquidshokk]

Motivation

Basic Tactics

Advanced Tactics

Intelligence

Fitness

Lallana

Confidence

Respect

Barnard not being suspended

A lot more than 5k a week

 

You mention fitness. If as Cortese mentioned about the players not being fit enough following pre season is true then could we presume they weren't for most of last season and that Adkins has them working a lot harder under him? Lambert is looking a lot trimmer now it has to be said.

[The9]

Surely the players would have been putting in effort even during the low points. Afterall they are professionals, they want to continue getting a ridiculous wage and want to get noticed by other clubs. Only a fool in that position would give up in the way the team did around the time of the sacking.

 

The only reason I dont put in 110% at work is because I'm paid too little to care.

 

The difference between top teams and bottom teams of similar abilities in any league is usually effort. Saints in 2001 were a bunch of one-paced half decent players, by 2003 they were a hard-working hard-running machine. The tangible difference was the effort they put in (aided by fitness which can't be a factor in this timeframe).

 

It's the difference between players moving before the ball is played and getting the advantage over the opposition as a result, or waiting to see what happens which makes them predictable. The fractions and decisions on which matches turn. We all know we've got a good squad for this level, but if they all stand around waiting for someone else to do something then the opposition is usually organised and able to deal with that.

 

What's changed is the desire to put in that work, make the runs, track the runners. The effort, pure and simple.

 

Now we can argue about WHY that's changed, if you like...

[The9]

You mention fitness. If as Cortese mentioned about the players not being fit enough following pre season is true then could we presume they weren't for most of last season and that Adkins has them working a lot harder under him? Lambert is looking a lot trimmer now it has to be said.

 

No he isn't. He looks just as immobile to me as he did from the second game of the season. But he does now have Barnard running around making things happen as well.

[Liquidshokk]

No he isn't. He looks just as immobile to me as he did from the second game of the season. But he does now have Barnard running around making things happen as well.

 

Some of the match shots of him on the OS showed him in good shape. His increase in effort stood out in the Tranmere game at least.

[Liquidshokk]

The difference between top teams and bottom teams of similar abilities in any league is usually effort. Saints in 2001 were a bunch of one-paced half decent players, by 2003 they were a hard-working hard-running machine. The tangible difference was the effort they put in (aided by fitness which can't be a factor in this timeframe).

 

It's the difference between players moving before the ball is played and getting the advantage over the opposition as a result, or waiting to see what happens which makes them predictable. The fractions and decisions on which matches turn. We all know we've got a good squad for this level, but if they all stand around waiting for someone else to do something then the opposition is usually organised and able to deal with that.

 

What's changed is the desire to put in that work, make the runs, track the runners. The effort, pure and simple.

 

Now we can argue about WHY that's changed, if you like...

 

Without wanting to go off track about what's changed, I'm intrigued to know why, in response to your post. Why was the effort not there in the abundance it is now when the dream/plans were the same right from the minute we were saved by liebherr.

[Appy]

No he isn't. He looks just as immobile to me as he did from the second game of the season. But he does now have Barnard running around making things happen as well.

 

If you compared last saturdays game to the Swindon JPT or Swindon league game there has been a huge difference.

[Saint Fan CaM]

The key is a quite simple one - keep possession.

 

If the opposing team do not touch the ball, they cannot score and if they cannot score they cannot win. The worst case scenario is a 0-0 bore draw and a point on the board. That's why 95% of KD's distribution now goes to one or other of the defenders to pass it out and this is working wonders. The ball itself is doing all the hard work for us and the opposition is getting more tired and demoralised chasing shadows, not to mention not being able to get settled into a flow.

 

This is NA's big 'secret' to his success as a Manager. You heard it here first. (:

[70's Mike]

Lallana

[doddisalegend]

I just think Wilkins was out of his depth and that probably transfered to the players they weren't confident in his ability to do the job, they weren't sure what he wanted from them or when a new manager would come in. Once Nigel came in with a clear game plan and showing confidence that transfered to the players. The players are now getting used to what is wanted of them and their confidence levels are returnning.

[del boy]

Motivation Tactics Confidence

[Mustapha Fag]

I kind of agree with motivation, but other than getting them running more and working harder, and getting Lallana back (which all makes a huge difference), the only difference I've noticed is that Puncheon passes the ball more quickly.

 

 

so you havnt noticed the defenders dropping deeper, KD rolling out instead of hoofing, the shorter passing instead of lumping up towards Lambert, the wingers hugging the touch line, Ricky and Barnard/Guly coming deeper to collect and drag defenders about? None of this?

Its so much more than just effort and running more, yes that may be a factor but not the sole reason for the change in fortunes

[West End Saint]

Motivation Tactics Confidence

 

This but I would add keeping possession and moving the ball quicker.

 

NA has managed to get the players to adapt to his style of using all the pitch possession football and quick passing he has been fortunate that the players we have are quality and have the ability to play this way.

 

Confidence is the other major factor I hope we can continue the improvements against Udders that will be a good test COYS

[manji]

The key is a quite simple one - keep possession.

 

If the opposing team do not touch the ball, they cannot score and if they cannot score they cannot win. The worst case scenario is a 0-0 bore draw and a point on the board. That's why 95% of KD's distribution now goes to one or other of the defenders to pass it out and this is working wonders. The ball itself is doing all the hard work for us and the opposition is getting more tired and demoralised chasing shadows, not to mention not being able to get settled into a flow.

 

This is NA's big 'secret' to his success as a Manager. You heard it here first. (:

 

Correct. Thats the main difference. The accuracy of the passing has improved enormously. Theres other factors as well. The players are more motivated and seem a lot fitter. You do wonder what was going on with Pardew. Im not sure what the real reason was for getting rid of Pardew but the decision to do so was a masterstroke.

[Professor]

The team that beat Bristol Rovers 4-0 away wasn't too bad. Best result of the season so far.

 

As the Opening Post says, the turn around is Adkins over the Wilkins interlude, as we can't know how well the team would be doing if Pardew had remained in charge, but quite probably they'd be further up the table than they are now if the three defeats that followed the sacking, had not happened.

 

So what has changed? Well, we haven't just had the manager sacked after an emphatic win, with no proper reason being given to either the players or the fans. That obviously had a major effect on morale that has taken the re-appointment of another capable manager to start repairing it. Adkins may well have strengths Pardew didn't have, but the opposite will also be true. Five games without defeat is great, but it doesn't make Pardew a bad manager and is no reflection on him at all. Scoring goals is still a problem and 2 goals at home against the bottom club playing mostly kids, is not conclusive.

 

With the team having won 5-0 at Huddersfield under Pardew only 6 months ago, Saturday's game is a better test from which to judge them under Adkins and for me, they don't have to win big again, but they do need to win.

[Wadge]

Wait till we lose Saturday and everyone wants Adkins out.

[Legod Third Coming]

Wait till we lose Saturday and everyone wants Adkins out.

 

Not quite but we beat a very very poor side on Saturday and this coming match is a much better test of our league credentials. We should win given our resources, undoubtedly. But we shouldn't get carried away with outpassing Tranmere bloody Rovers!

 

What looks different to me than when Wilkins was in charge is that the players seem to know what they're doing/what they're being asked to do. There were times weeks ago when they were looking to/at each other as though they'd never seen a football before in their lives.

 

MANAGERS make football clubs, make players win games.

[beancounter saint]

With the team having won 5-0 at Huddersfield under Pardew only 6 months ago, Saturday's game is a better test from which to judge them under Adkins and for me, they don't have to win big again, but they do need to win.

 

Wasn't the 5-0 result at home? If I remember rightly, we got wopped away at Huddersfield last season.

[Alanh]

For me it's a combination of things. Firstly I think the whole club was shocked and went through a grieving process over Markus's death and the potential uncertainty it generated. Secondly, it's clear to me that Pardew wasn't sacked for footballing reasons after the successes of last season and the 4-0 win at Bristol Rovers. I think his behaviour - whatever the truth is - was upsetting the atmosphere in the squad and they simply didn't want to play for him. Things didn't work for Wilkins because the players knew he was a stop gap. Lastly, the loss of Lallana and Barnard during the Wilkins period hampered our ability to hold onto the ball and create chances.

 

Adkins has obviously made changes and they seem to be working, but I think he's been lucky with the return of Lallana and Barnard and his arrival has helped reassure the club that there is still a positive future after Markus's death.

[Cabrone]

I think he's brought in enthusiasm, energy and positivity which have resulted in increased morale and motivation amongst the players.

 

He's also brought in intelligence, the ability to react flexibly to opposition during a game.

 

He's got a good quick passing strategy which is both pleasing to watch and delivers an end result. The players appear to have taken to it fairly quickly.

 

Finally he's got probably the best bunch of players in this league thanks to AP's shrewd signings (APs greatest strength IMO).

[the stain]

Surely the players would have been putting in effort even during the low points. Afterall they are professionals, they want to continue getting a ridiculous wage and want to get noticed by other clubs. Only a fool in that position would give up in the way the team did around the time of the sacking.

 

The only reason I dont put in 110% at work is because I'm paid too little to care.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

[Mowgli]

Surely it's about leadership. Pardew had it and got the best out of them last season. For reasons we will probably never know, something happen to question Pardew leadership. The players saw it and lost a bit of confidence in him. It may not have been conscious but it impacted on their performance on the pitch and, ultimately in the results.

 

It's easy for NA to come in and lift them - clearly he is an inspirational manager. And full marks for his results to date. The question still remains about how he keeps them motivated in the long term. When things don't go wrong; when his tactics and his substitutions don't work. But it's looking good so far....

[Redbul]

Good, quick one touch football;

Movement;

Possession; and

Davies being told not to go Route 1 all the time!!!!

[aintforever]

The difference between top teams and bottom teams of similar abilities in any league is usually effort. Saints in 2001 were a bunch of one-paced half decent players, by 2003 they were a hard-working hard-running machine. The tangible difference was the effort they put in (aided by fitness which can't be a factor in this timeframe).

 

It's the difference between players moving before the ball is played and getting the advantage over the opposition as a result, or waiting to see what happens which makes them predictable. The fractions and decisions on which matches turn. We all know we've got a good squad for this level, but if they all stand around waiting for someone else to do something then the opposition is usually organised and able to deal with that.

 

What's changed is the desire to put in that work, make the runs, track the runners. The effort, pure and simple.

 

Now we can argue about WHY that's changed, if you like...

 

I disagree, I would say the players put more work in against Plymouth than they did against Tranmere.

 

I think pro footballers generally try as hard as they can, I would put it more down to organisation and everyone knowing what their job in the team is. Better fitness and tactics also help.

[Lets B Avenue]

The team that beat Bristol Rovers 4-0 away wasn't too bad. Best result of the season so far.

 

As the Opening Post says, the turn around is Adkins over the Wilkins interlude, as we can't know how well the team would be doing if Pardew had remained in charge, but quite probably they'd be further up the table than they are now if the three defeats that followed the sacking, had not happened.

 

So what has changed? Well, we haven't just had the manager sacked after an emphatic win, with no proper reason being given to either the players or the fans. That obviously had a major effect on morale that has taken the re-appointment of another capable manager to start repairing it. Adkins may well have strengths Pardew didn't have, but the opposite will also be true. Five games without defeat is great, but it doesn't make Pardew a bad manager and is no reflection on him at all. Scoring goals is still a problem and 2 goals at home against the bottom club playing mostly kids, is not conclusive.

 

With the team having won 5-0 at Huddersfield under Pardew only 6 months ago, Saturday's game is a better test from which to judge them under Adkins and for me, they don't have to win big again, but they do need to win.

 

Were you at the Rovers game? I was and IMHO we played worse than we had done the previous week against Orient.

The difference between the two games was that we got 2-0 up at half-time and were able to coast through the 2nd half against a team that played as badly as Tranmere did last week.

 

The goals wern't a victory for Pardew's coaching skills. 1-0 a corner miss hit to the near post where the defender missed the ball and Fonte shinned it in. 2-0 Hammond tried a 25 yarder. Fluffed it and it fell perfectley for Lallana 12 yards out. 3-0 needless penalty given away as Barney was moving away from the goal. The 4th in injury time against an invisible back line.

 

Please stop your boring crusade. How do you know the players aren't fully aware of the reasons for the sacking. Just because you dont know why, dosen't make it the wrong decision.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by The9

No he isn't. He looks just as immobile to me as he did from the second game of the season. But he does now have Barnard running around making things happen as well.

 

If you compared last saturdays game to the Swindon JPT or Swindon league game there has been a huge difference.

 

If you look at the first and second halves there is enough difference there. No matter how you cut it, he is still a way off last years form, but getting better.

[trousers]

So What's Changed?

 

My underpants.

 

I had pledged not to change them until we'd gone 5 games on the trot unbeaten.

[Pilsmer]

What looks different to me than when Wilkins was in charge is that the players seem to know what they're doing/what they're being asked to do. There were times weeks ago when they were looking to/at each other as though they'd never seen a football before in their lives.

 

This is the crux of it in my opinion. Adkins obviously has very clear ideas of how the game should be played, has conveyed these ideas effectively to the players who have in turn embraced them whilst being in a settled environment. When Wilkins was in charge the club was in a state of disarray and its no surprise that this was mirrored in or performances.

[Bucks Saint]

Were you at the Rovers game? I was and IMHO we played worse than we had done the previous week against Orient.

The difference between the two games was that we got 2-0 up at half-time and were able to coast through the 2nd half against a team that played as badly as Tranmere did last week.

 

The goals wern't a victory for Pardew's coaching skills. 1-0 a corner miss hit to the near post where the defender missed the ball and Fonte shinned it in. 2-0 Hammond tried a 25 yarder. Fluffed it and it fell perfectley for Lallana 12 yards out. 3-0 needless penalty given away as Barney was moving away from the goal. The 4th in injury time against an invisible back line.

 

Please stop your boring crusade. How do you know the players aren't fully aware of the reasons for the sacking. Just because you dont know why, dosen't make it the wrong decision.

 

Four lucky goals in one game. Wow we must have found a whole crop of four leaf clovers that day

[Greenridge]

My underpants.

 

I had pledged not to change them until we'd gone 5 games on the trot unbeaten.

 

If ever there was a good reason to change them that was it!

[Legod Third Coming]

Were you at the Rovers game? I was and IMHO we played worse than we had done the previous week against Orient.

The difference between the two games was that we got 2-0 up at half-time and were able to coast through the 2nd half against a team that played as badly as Tranmere did last week.

 

The goals wern't a victory for Pardew's coaching skills. 1-0 a corner miss hit to the near post where the defender missed the ball and Fonte shinned it in. 2-0 Hammond tried a 25 yarder. Fluffed it and it fell perfectley for Lallana 12 yards out. 3-0 needless penalty given away as Barney was moving away from the goal. The 4th in injury time against an invisible back line.

 

Please stop your boring crusade. How do you know the players aren't fully aware of the reasons for the sacking. Just because you dont know why, dosen't make it the wrong decision.

 

Stop pretending Pardew was a poor manager.

 

THESE ARE THE FACTS:

 

2nd best scorers in the division with 85 goals

2nd best defence with 47 conceded

Won 23 games

Drew 14 games

Lost 9 games

 

From turning around a fecking supertanker of defeat and disaster.

 

If Adkins has 80% of Pardew's record, chances are we will be promoted... I have every faith in Adkins but the vitriol expressed towards our previous manager and his style is bordering on David Irving standard!

[Dalek2003]

Not being funny, but it is a bit early to evaluate Adkins management.

[sfc4prem]

Why do people keep bleating on about Pardew? He's gone, we have Adkins now, so shut up and get on with supporting Nige and the lads...

[Dalek2003]

The difference between top teams and bottom teams of similar abilities in any league is usually effort. Saints in 2001 were a bunch of one-paced half decent players, by 2003 they were a hard-working hard-running machine. The tangible difference was the effort they put in (aided by fitness which can't be a factor in this timeframe).

 

It's the difference between players moving before the ball is played and getting the advantage over the opposition as a result, or waiting to see what happens which makes them predictable. The fractions and decisions on which matches turn. We all know we've got a good squad for this level, but if they all stand around waiting for someone else to do something then the opposition is usually organised and able to deal with that.

 

What's changed is the desire to put in that work, make the runs, track the runners. The effort, pure and simple.

 

Now we can argue about WHY that's changed, if you like...

 

In 2001 Saints reached 6th place, they were a very good footballing unit. Strachan continued to improve the good work that had already been started.

[Legod Third Coming]

In 2001 Saints reached 6th place, they were a very good footballing unit. Strachan continued to improve the good work that had already been started.

 

There is no doubt we were a good side under Hoddle. He was a good manager for us, end of.

[Whitey Grandad]

The uncertainty has been removed.

[John Boy Saint]

There is a Plan A ~ B ~ C ~probably D & E too!

 

Saturday afternoon Puncheon and Lallana swapped sides I said to the guys alongside me "changing those 2 over has taken the sting from our play a little" within less than a minute of me saying it Adkins had put them back to where they started.

[dubai_phil]

so you havnt noticed the defenders dropping deeper, KD rolling out instead of hoofing, the shorter passing instead of lumping up towards Lambert, the wingers hugging the touch line, Ricky and Barnard/Guly coming deeper to collect and drag defenders about? None of this?

Its so much more than just effort and running more, yes that may be a factor but not the sole reason for the change in fortunes

 

This. It was so clear against the wannbees down the road that Barnard was playing on the shoulder of the CB, Lambert was a few metres deeper (reverse against Tranmere with Guly) and as per Spain in the WC, the CB's pulled wide to take the ball from KD.

 

Suddenly we no longer play the long ball to RL. The oppo midfield then HAVE to close down the FB's rather than drop deep in an 8 to help the defence beat RL.

 

Simple and it will be very effective in this League.

[doddisalegend]

There is a Plan A ~ B ~ C ~probably D & E too!

 

Saturday afternoon Puncheon and Lallana swapped sides I said to the guys alongside me "changing those 2 over has taken the sting from our play a little" within less than a minute of me saying it Adkins had put them back to where they started.

 

Puncheon and Lallana are always swopping sides they did it under Pardew too . I don't get where this Pardew had no plan B thing comes from. Plenty of games last season where changed by the introduction of Papa or Antonio or by swopping from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2. It's almost as if people repeat something enough times on here it becomes fact.

[Crab Lungs]

so you havnt noticed the defenders dropping deeper, KD rolling out instead of hoofing, the shorter passing instead of lumping up towards Lambert, the wingers hugging the touch line, Ricky and Barnard/Guly coming deeper to collect and drag defenders about? None of this?

Its so much more than just effort and running more, yes that may be a factor but not the sole reason for the change in fortunes

 

I think it's the effort to do that which is what The9 means. The effort to get into those positions and so forth, as opposed to standing around idle. Though to do that does take some tactical nous, for a start, you have to instruct the players to do those things (assuming you have the calibre of players available with the ability to do it, which we seemingly do have)

[Andy_Porter]

Puncheon and Lallana are always swopping sides they did it under Pardew too . I don't get where this Pardew had no plan B thing comes from. Plenty of games last season where changed by the introduction of Papa or Antonio or by swopping from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2. It's almost as if people repeat something enough times on here it becomes fact.

 

That's exactly it.

 

Just like how for ages Seabourne was considered crap because we signed him from Exeter and didn't get Ward from Coventry, or how Ostemebor just got away with things because he was quick , Lloyd James can't cross a ball .... etc so many opinions on here just become accepted as fact it's hilarious at times.

[doddisalegend]

That's exactly it.

 

Just like how for ages Seabourne was considered crap because we signed him from Exeter and didn't get Ward from Coventry, or how Ostemebor just got away with things because he was quick , Lloyd James can't cross a ball .... etc so many opinions on here just become accepted as fact it's hilarious at times.

 

Ohhh I might start another one Doddisalegened is hung like a horse:D

[Liquidshokk]

Ohhh I might start another one Doddisalegened is hung like a horse:D

 

Load of bull like the other examples :-D.........

 

Rule 1?!?!

[Lets B Avenue]

Stop pretending Pardew was a poor manager.

 

THESE ARE THE FACTS:

 

2nd best scorers in the division with 85 goals

2nd best defence with 47 conceded

Won 23 games

Drew 14 games

Lost 9 games

 

From turning around a fecking supertanker of defeat and disaster.

 

If Adkins has 80% of Pardew's record, chances are we will be promoted... I have every faith in Adkins but the vitriol expressed towards our previous manager and his style is bordering on David Irving standard!

 

Thank you for your FACTS.

 

However, I was replying directly to the So-called Professor and quoted him in my post. I had no problem with Pardew last season, other than his obvious lack of a Plan B. But in the pre-season and then the opening games we were pis-spoor and the fact that we won 4-0 at Brizzle merely papered over the cracks.

[saint_bert]

The team that beat Bristol Rovers 4-0 away wasn't too bad. Best result of the season so far.

 

As the Opening Post says, the turn around is Adkins over the Wilkins interlude, as we can't know how well the team would be doing if Pardew had remained in charge, but quite probably they'd be further up the table than they are now if the three defeats that followed the sacking, had not happened.

 

So what has changed? Well, we haven't just had the manager sacked after an emphatic win, with no proper reason being given to either the players or the fans. That obviously had a major effect on morale that has taken the re-appointment of another capable manager to start repairing it. Adkins may well have strengths Pardew didn't have, but the opposite will also be true. Five games without defeat is great, but it doesn't make Pardew a bad manager and is no reflection on him at all. Scoring goals is still a problem and 2 goals at home against the bottom club playing mostly kids, is not conclusive.

 

With the team having won 5-0 at Huddersfield under Pardew only 6 months ago, Saturday's game is a better test from which to judge them under Adkins and for me, they don't have to win big again, but they do need to win.

 

How do you know?

[Torres]

Puncheon and Lallana are always swopping sides they did it under Pardew too . I don't get where this Pardew had no plan B thing comes from. Plenty of games last season where changed by the introduction of Papa or Antonio or by swopping from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2. It's almost as if people repeat something enough times on here it becomes fact.

 

You only have to recall the huge number of threads on this very forum on the 4-5-1/4-4-2 debate to know that this "no plan B" thing is utter codswallop.