terrasaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Is it right that a team finishing third say ten points ahead of the team in sixth place should enter the play offs on an equal footing apart from having the home leg in the second match. What about a format something like this........... A/ 5th placed team home to 6th placed team (1 leg only) B/ 4th placed team home to winners of A (1 leg only) C/ winners of B play 3rd placed team in final at Wembley or Old Trafford. Any opinions or alternative ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 it would have been a disgrace had we gone up when we were in the playoffs..i mean, finishing 6th and going up...we could have said no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardy Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 The play offs are a money making venture. Fewer games is not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrasaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 March, 2011 ok then what about 2 legs in the format suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 yeah, maybe..you could (or probably should) have 3rd placed team already in the final.. I remember years ago pompey failed to get promotion to the top flight automatically by about 1 points...and lost in the playoffs..oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Have thought for a long time that it should be more heavily weighted to the third place team. I really don't know why this cant be...you could devise a simple system , like the OP, that would make almost as much money, and be much fairer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Probably not fair but bloody exciting. I'm all for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Have thought for a long time that it should be more heavily weighted to the third place team. I really don't know why this cant be...you could devise a simple system , like the OP, that would make almost as much money, and be much fairer. Simple. 5th v 6th, winner plays 4th, winner plays 3rd, winner promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Simple. 5th v 6th, winner plays 4th, winner plays 3rd, winner promoted. A final could be played between a team who have played 3 playoff ties (6th, 5th) and a team (3rd) who have played non. The system as it stands works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 in the late 80's they tried third bottom in the league above played 3rd place team in the league below with the winners either going up or staying up. That was harsh, at least the teams finishing in the play offs in it current format have nothing to lose. A league system would be fairer with each team 3-6 playing each other home and away or once a a neutreal venue and the team finishing top goes up but the extra games would probably mean it'll never happen. I like the play offs anyway, they are exciting and mean that everyone from 5th-12th still have something to play for come the last month of the season. It's great if you win them, horrible if you lose in them, as we well know, but thats football, for every winner there is plenty of losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrasaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 March, 2011 But surely the 6th placed team should have to graft more to win promotion. Or are you saying that they would have an advantage because 3rd placed team are entering the competition 'cold'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 I really like this system. Its much fairer. 3rd place guranteed to be in the play off final. 5th and 6th play for privelege of playing 4th and then the winner plays 3rd placed team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 I think a better system would be for everyone in the division to play each other home and away, and at the end the 3rd placed team would be promoted along with the winners and runners-up. The disadvantage of this system is that the winners get more prestige for winning/being champions and the 3rd placed team do not get a money-spinning day out at Wembley/Old Trafford and 2 play-off semi-finals and so are not rewarded for comparitive failure like the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 They're as fair as anything else. Everyone knows the deal before they start, if a team doesn't want to chance the playoffs then they need to finish top two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 I think a better system would be for everyone in the division to play each other home and away, and at the end the 3rd placed team would be promoted along with the winners and runners-up. The disadvantage of this system is that the winners get more prestige for winning/being champions and the 3rd placed team do not get a money-spinning day out at Wembley/Old Trafford and 2 play-off semi-finals and so are not rewarded for comparitive failure like the current system. This, 100%. However would i complain if we finished sixth and went up? Probably not much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 The do exactly this in Australian 'soccer'. They call them Major Semi-Finals, Minor Final and then they Major Final with the team who finishes highest placed in the league table playing the least games to get to the Major Final. I can't be arsed to look on the interweb for the format but it is something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 yeah, maybe..you could (or probably should) have RD placed team already in the final.. I remember years ago Pompey failed to get promotion to the top flight automatically by about 1 points...and lost in the playoffs..oh well It was goal difference to the hammers If memory serves me right It was the 1st year of the playoffs we blew it big time in said playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 A much fairer system would be for the top 3 to be promoted, it's a lot simpler and a lot fairer. Unfortunately though it doesn't make any money. I for one would be pretty ****ed off if after finishing 3rd, someone like Colchester, or who ever, finishing 6th, beat us in a one-off game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 A much fairer system would be for the top 3 to be promoted, it's a lot simpler and a lot fairer. Unfortunately though it doesn't make any money. I for one would be pretty ****ed off if after finishing 3rd, someone like Colchester, or who ever, finishing 6th, beat us in a one-off game. Even if it doesn't affect us I think the top places should be promoted. It doesn't happen in the Premier, the first four go in the Uefa Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Even if it doesn't affect us I think the top places should be promoted. It doesn't happen in the Premier, the first four go in the Uefa Champions League. Absolutely correct. Mind you if we finish 6th & get promoted, you wont hear me complaining. Fickle? Moi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 3rd placed team gets promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Is it right that a team finishing third say ten points ahead of the team in sixth place should enter the play offs on an equal footing apart from having the home leg in the second match. What about a format something like this........... A/ 5th placed team home to 6th placed team (1 leg only) B/ 4th placed team home to winners of A (1 leg only) C/ winners of B play 3rd placed team in final at Wembley or Old Trafford. Any opinions or alternative ideas? people often say that finishing 6th and maybe 10 points behind the third team is unfair. However, teams that may have a good late run and get 6th place in the last few games are on form, whilst a team that was in the top two most of the season loses form and drops to 5th.. so who is most likely to go up?.... Any team finishing in the top six has had a pretty good season, and the top two will go up anyway, so teams 3 to 6 are fairly evenly matched and have played good / bad games during the season. It seems unfair to the losers, but like a cup final, there is a winner / loser and no-one complains when David beats Goliath, I think it's a good way to settle things. I can't agree about us losing the play-offs . We were better than Derby in the home tie, but conceded two soft goals, and our performance at Pride Park was superb..just our hard luck we didn't have any penalty takers to finish the job. As it was we should have won over two legs. Derby went up and were the worst team ever to get promoted to the Prem. with the worst record ever. I think we'd have survived and they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cestrian Saint Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Play offs are ****. Why have a league where the team who've finished 3rd can end up not going up, yet the team who finish 6th can? It's pathetic! The original play offs were much better, where the teams in relegation positions from the league above play teams in promotion positions from the league below. This has teams fighting to stay in the higher league battling against teams desperate to get promoted. If there has to be a play off system then I'd like to see 2 up and 2 down with 3rd & 4th playing 3rd & 4th from the bottom in the higher league. Much more exciting and much more fair. I'd also make the Champions league just for the Champions. The League winners and the FA Cup winners should be the only teams in the competition. Why should a team who finish 4th be able to play in the champions league? They're not champions of anything! If a team does the double then the runners up in the league should go into the champions league. This would also solve the problems with fixture congestion as teasm would play fewer european games. Anyway, it won't happen because the modern game is ruled by money grabbing bastards. The future is non-league!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Play offs are ****. Why have a league where the team who've finished 3rd can end up not going up, yet the team who finish 6th can? It's pathetic! The original play offs were much better, where the teams in relegation positions from the league above play teams in promotion positions from the league below. This has teams fighting to stay in the higher league battling against teams desperate to get promoted. If there has to be a play off system then I'd like to see 2 up and 2 down with 3rd & 4th playing 3rd & 4th from the bottom in the higher league. Much more exciting and much more fair. I'd also make the Champions league just for the Champions. The League winners and the FA Cup winners should be the only teams in the competition. Why should a team who finish 4th be able to play in the champions league? They're not champions of anything! If a team does the double then the runners up in the league should go into the champions league. This would also solve the problems with fixture congestion as teasm would play fewer european games. Anyway, it won't happen because the modern game is ruled by money grabbing bastards. The future is non-league!!! TBH if we were the team scraping 6th, and we went up, you'd all be saying the system is fantastic. - We almost did it in the championship a few years ago. I think it extends the season and creates extra excitement, teams that never have a chance of competing with the top 3 can believe and dream of going up by scraping 6th. Burnley and Blackpool would have never got their chance otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 Even if it doesn't affect us I think the top places should be promoted. It doesn't happen in the Premier, the first four go in the Uefa Champions League. Not the same situation. In the Prem the next few go into the Uefaropa League cup thing, so there isn't such a need to add interest in the way the play-offs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 5 March, 2011 Share Posted 5 March, 2011 TBH if we were the team scraping 6th, and we went up, you'd all be saying the system is fantastic. - We almost did it in the championship a few years ago. I think it extends the season and creates extra excitement, teams that never have a chance of competing with the top 3 can believe and dream of going up by scraping 6th. Burnley and Blackpool would have never got their chance otherwise. Exaactly. The play-offs are brilliant for the championship; it seems most years that half the division have a shout of scraping in (although, this year seems a little different as the top six/seven seem to be pulling away a little). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 Play offs are ****. Why have a league where the team who've finished 3rd can end up not going up, yet the team who finish 6th can? It's pathetic! The original play offs were much better, where the teams in relegation positions from the league above play teams in promotion positions from the league below. This has teams fighting to stay in the higher league battling against teams desperate to get promoted. If there has to be a play off system then I'd like to see 2 up and 2 down with 3rd & 4th playing 3rd & 4th from the bottom in the higher league. Much more exciting and much more fair. I'd also make the Champions league just for the Champions. The League winners and the FA Cup winners should be the only teams in the competition. Why should a team who finish 4th be able to play in the champions league? They're not champions of anything! If a team does the double then the runners up in the league should go into the champions league. This would also solve the problems with fixture congestion as teasm would play fewer european games. Anyway, it won't happen because the modern game is ruled by money grabbing bastards. The future is non-league!!! This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 yeah, maybe..you could (or probably should) have 3rd placed team already in the final.. I remember years ago pompey failed to get promotion to the top flight automatically by about 1 points...and lost in the playoffs..oh well Let's hope history repeats itself. It would be particularly painful for the few this time, since their loan shark owner will most likely pull the plug if he can't get his grubby hands on the extra parachute payments coming from a quick return to the PL. He only funded their excessive wages this year in a gamble to go up. Further details can be found in the Cheats Takeover Saga thread over in the lounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastcowzer Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 A much fairer system would be for the top 3 to be promoted, it's a lot simpler and a lot fairer. Unfortunately though it doesn't make any money. I for one would be pretty ****ed off if after finishing 3rd, someone like Colchester, or who ever, finishing 6th, beat us in a one-off game. Well spoken DG. Promotion shouls be achieved by finishing the season in either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd position and b-----ks to the play off's, which are purely dersigned to relieve 'Joe Public' of even more of his hard-earned cash by paying the extortionate sums to visit the FA's 'White Elephant', (Wembley), situated in the middle of a depressed area. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 On a similar note, I've never heard a decent argument for a league points system at all. Can someone explain why it wouldn't it be better for league places to be decided purely on goal difference and remove the points system entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 When the Play-Off system was introduced - for money, not for sport reasons, one of the potentially relegated teams took part in the charade as well as teams that had missed promotion. Interesting that that idea soon got booted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 the play-off idea is really a extension of the " 6 pointer games ", when one win moves you up and the loser is gone. Swedish football uses a method with the bottom TWO going down and the third place (from bottom team) in play-off against the third placed team from CCC. (the top two being automatically promoted). In the English leagues you can see that the 3rd-6th teams are continually overtaking each other /or falling back according to results and there is often little to choose between them, so IMHO a "sudden-death" type match is a good answer. It only causes concern to some when the 6th team is 8-10 points behind the 3rd, but you often see that the these teams are very close on points /GD. Of course there is money to be made in every game, but actually seeing how good you are against other promotion candidates is more satisfying to fans, not least those who get to a Wembley play-off game. Of course I'd be disappointed if we finish 3rd and still don't get promoted, but the top six this season have already created a gap above 7th place and must be the best in L1. It's good that they get to play each other " one more time ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 Regardless of whether they are designed for money or not. I love the playoffs, the negative reaction to them on here has actually quite surprised me. For example, without the playoffs, our last 10-15 games last season would have been non-events with nothing to play for. As it was we always had that hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 (edited) On a similar note, I've never heard a decent argument for a league points system at all. Can someone explain why it wouldn't it be better for league places to be decided purely on goal difference and remove the points system entirely? Surely the reason for promotion is the best team gets to go up, not just the highest goalscorers. A couple of bad results in a season could sink a team right off, even if they do win most games they still might not go up. If that were the case that "goals scored " was the decider, then Peterborough would go up straight away, despite having one of the worse defensive records for goals conceded in League 1. Clubs who produce the " best overall performance " (i.e. scoring goals and keeping a tight defence) are surely the most suitable to go up. I don't know if Peterboro can tighten their defence (unless Ferguson junior gets a season long loan of 3 MU defenders from Dad) because they are unlikely to keep Machail - Smith after the summer and another defensive disaster like this seasons will see them back down again to L1 ..together with their 7,000 gate every home game. Goal difference does play a part - if two teams are equal on points won - and then GD is the deciding factor. That is surely just. Edited 6 March, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 in the late 80's they tried third bottom in the league above played 3rd place team in the league below with the winners either going up or staying up. That was harsh, at least the teams finishing in the play offs in it current format have nothing to lose. A league system would be fairer with each team 3-6 playing each other home and away or once a a neutreal venue and the team finishing top goes up but the extra games would probably mean it'll never happen. I like the play offs anyway, they are exciting and mean that everyone from 5th-12th still have something to play for come the last month of the season. It's great if you win them, horrible if you lose in them, as we well know, but thats football, for every winner there is plenty of losers. Something similar happens in the lower Scottish leagues with the 2nd from bottom playing 2nd 3rd & 4th for the second promotion place as only 1 club the champion is guaranteed promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La BoIS Saint Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 When the playoffs came in it was because they were changing the sizes of the divisions so had to try and make it fair. In normal circumstances top 3 should go up, no logic behind any other system other than money making rip off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 Don't like the idea of playing off against the higher division, particularly given the financial inequalities between them. I quite like the play-offs as they are. Perhaps the semi-finals should be one legged affairs with the 3rd and 4th placed teams at home. That should weight it a bit more. I'm not too sure I like the idea of the 3rd place team coming in later in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 When the playoffs came in it was because they were changing the sizes of the divisions so had to try and make it fair. In normal circumstances top 3 should go up, no logic behind any other system other than money making rip off. Keeps the division more interesting (usually). Maybe not completely meritocratic but I think it's a consideration which can't just be dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 It would be a laugh if a similar process was introduced for the final relegation place in each division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 6 March, 2011 Share Posted 6 March, 2011 I think that instead of the traditional playoffs, each of the teams finishing 3rd to 6th should have their individual players competing in a series of different disciplines: Scrabble Steak eating competition Arm wrestling Yahtzee! Photography Impersonations Buckaroo Acting Holding your breath for the longest Eating donuts without licking your lips Eating as many ice creams as possible on a roller coaster Each team should put forward their 'champion' for each discipline. You can only enter a player into one discipline. Points will be awarded for each competition. The team that accumulate the most points over the 11 disciplines will get promotion to the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 Remember it used to be straight two up - two down. Guess who were the very first victims from the old division one when it changed to three up - three down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertySFC Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 If we had been promoted last year through the play off's I doubt this thread would have never started - unfair !! well all teams know the rules prior to the season kicks off and as Bournemouth & Brighton have been the most consistent teams - fair play to them, with the depth of our squad , resources available we should be doing a lot better and the play off's may be our saving grace this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 Remember it used to be straight two up - two down. Guess who were the very first victims from the old division one when it changed to three up - three down? Was it us? I think we were relegated in '74 finishing 3rd bottom, with ManUre one place below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 It was goal difference to the hammers If memory serves me right It was the 1st year of the playoffs we blew it big time in said playoffs. Is this you mack...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 Perhaps the semi-finals should be one legged affairs with the 3rd and 4th placed teams at home. That should weight it a bit more. . I like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 7 March, 2011 Share Posted 7 March, 2011 Fair, because all four clubs have a 1 in 4 chance of winning the play-off lottery, bearing in mind that all the teams, including Saints, are more or less equally inconsistant. Compares with the current four clubs in the play-offs, plus the team in second place (assuming that Brighton won't be overhauled on current form), have a 1 in five chance of finishing in the second automatic place. Then factor in consistency of wins, and that gives Bumpey the second automatic place - as things stand now..... Has to be fair, if not what we want to dwell on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 March, 2011 Share Posted 8 March, 2011 Was it us? I think we were relegated in '74 finishing 3rd bottom, with ManUre one place below. Yes, indeed. Just our bloody luck to be the first team finishing third from bottom and getting relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now