lordswoodsaints Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 i didnt go to the preston game but i understand he had a cracking game up there. last week he seemed way out of his depth and this week he showed a couple of flashes of the player he will become but passed the ball backwards far too much and looked like bambi on ice in parts. hopefully he will fulfill his potential as he does have something about him but he could quickly slide into obscurity if he is not careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Nowhere near ready for the first team yet on the basis of the last 2 games. Been quite rightly taken off at half time in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 He certainly has potential, and like the fact that he is a tall fella. Got rave reviews against Preston, andd has showed flashes of his ability since. However, IMHO he isn't ready to be in the starting line up. Some players might be ready at 17, but for me Oscar should not be starting matches and it was a mistake by Jan to rush him in too early. We need to be careful with these young lads that we don't ruin them before they even start their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 He certainly has potential, and like the fact that he is a tall fella. Got rave reviews against Preston, andd has showed flashes of his ability since. However, IMHO he isn't ready to be in the starting line up. Some players might be ready at 17, but for me Oscar should not be starting matches and it was a mistake by Jan to rush him in too early. We need to be careful with these young lads that we don't ruin them before they even start their careers. what i have been saying about all of them from the beginning of the season. although he is a big lad he has no physical strength so is easy to muscle off ball and his defensive duties were sadly lacking yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 However, IMHO he isn't ready to be in the starting line up. Some players might be ready at 17, but for me Oscar should not be starting matches and it was a mistake by Jan to rush him in too early. That's a fair enough comment, but it's questionable whether Jan decided he should play or Jan was told to play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 That's a fair enough comment, but it's questionable whether Jan decided he should play or Jan was told to play him. Rupe's needs as many in the shop window as possible ready for the January sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Nowhere near ready for the first team yet on the basis of the last 2 games. Been quite rightly taken off at half time in both. Sums it up perfectly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 From what I've seen he's a great player potentially who has already looked consistent and strong for the reserves and in a couple of pre-season games, but on the strength of his two home performances he seems to lack the confidence to use his pace to go past players at the moment, which he does for fun usually. If we give him a few games he'll come good and we'll end up selling him for a few million IF he realises he's not only good enough to play at CCC level, but also above. It'll be interesting when both he and Holmes are in contention on the left, we might even see Skacel dropped again so Gobern can play left back. He's still young, he's fast, fit, athetic, has a great touch, skill to beat players and awareness and looks like one of the few genuine talents who is probably playing below his station - just that he hasn't got the experience to know he's actually that good and that he CAN do the things he's done for the reserves when in the first team. Massive potential. Hey, I was right about Kenwyne... And while I'm here, Mancienne getting called up for England is ridiculous, he showed a distinct lack of judgement yesterday, clattered through the back of numerous Saints players, kept getting the wrong side (fine as long as he won the ball but fatal if he misses it) and looked like any decent striker would have a field day winning free-kicks and easily rolling him as he came haring out for the striker to get clean through behind. Alright he ran his ar5e off and won most things in the air, but those are positional flaws that he'd never get away with in the Prem, never mind a decent level of International football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 From what I've seen he's a great player potentially who has already looked consistent and strong for the reserves and in a couple of pre-season games, but on the strength of his two home performances he seems to lack the confidence to use his pace to go past players at the moment, which he does for fun usually. If we give him a few games he'll come good and we'll end up selling him for a few million IF he realises he's not only good enough to play at CCC level, but also above. It'll be interesting when both he and Holmes are in contention on the left, we might even see Skacel dropped again so Gobern can play left back. He's still young, he's fast, fit, athetic, has a great touch, skill to beat players and awareness and looks like one of the few genuine talents who is probably playing below his station - just that he hasn't got the experience to know he's actually that good and that he CAN do the things he's done for the reserves when in the first team. Massive potential. Hey, I was right about Kenwyne... And while I'm here, Mancienne getting called up for England is ridiculous, he showed a distinct lack of judgement yesterday, clattered through the back of numerous Saints players, kept getting the wrong side (fine as long as he won the ball but fatal if he misses it) and looked like any decent striker would have a field day winning free-kicks and easily rolling him as he came haring out for the striker to get clean through behind. Alright he ran his ar5e off and won most things in the air, but those are positional flaws that he'd never get away with in the Prem, never mind a decent level of International football. NOT sure if you understand what a defenders primary job is , but Gobern does appear to have those qualitities so playing him at left back would ruin him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Good potential. Looked good coming on as sub at Preston, but that didn't warrant him starting the next 2 games. A good manager would have held him back, gave him a few more sub outings first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mprobert Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 A good manager would have held him back, gave him a few more sub outings first. I think you're probably right, but if if he had JP would then have been slated for not picking one of our best and "in form" players for the starting line up. Who'd be a manager!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 He certainly has potential, and like the fact that he is a tall fella. Got rave reviews against Preston, andd has showed flashes of his ability since. However, IMHO he isn't ready to be in the starting line up. Some players might be ready at 17, but for me Oscar should not be starting matches and it was a mistake by Jan to rush him in too early. We need to be careful with these young lads that we don't ruin them before they even start their careers. Spot on. Arsene Wenger this week talking about teenagers, said bits of matches, then intermittent matches, then if good enough, more matches until a regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 That's a fair enough comment, but it's questionable whether Jan decided he should play or Jan was told to play him. That could be the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 From what I've seen he's a great player potentially who has already looked consistent and strong for the reserves and in a couple of pre-season games, but on the strength of his two home performances he seems to lack the confidence to use his pace to go past players at the moment, which he does for fun usually. If we give him a few games he'll come good and we'll end up selling him for a few million IF he realises he's not only good enough to play at CCC level, but also above. It'll be interesting when both he and Holmes are in contention on the left, we might even see Skacel dropped again so Gobern can play left back. He's still young, he's fast, fit, athetic, has a great touch, skill to beat players and awareness and looks like one of the few genuine talents who is probably playing below his station - just that he hasn't got the experience to know he's actually that good and that he CAN do the things he's done for the reserves when in the first team. Massive potential. Hey, I was right about Kenwyne... And while I'm here, Mancienne getting called up for England is ridiculous, he showed a distinct lack of judgement yesterday, clattered through the back of numerous Saints players, kept getting the wrong side (fine as long as he won the ball but fatal if he misses it) and looked like any decent striker would have a field day winning free-kicks and easily rolling him as he came haring out for the striker to get clean through behind. Alright he ran his ar5e off and won most things in the air, but those are positional flaws that he'd never get away with in the Prem, never mind a decent level of International football. Gobern may become what you wish but he is not ready, one rifled cross at Preston doesn't make a career. In the last two starts, he wasn't replaced early enough against Bristol and shouldn't have played yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Felt sorry for him in the 1st half, looked well out of his depth and was pleased for him that he got taken off as it could have been embarassing for him. Is he related to George Weah by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 (edited) Spot on. Arsene Wenger this week talking about teenagers, said bits of matches, then intermittent matches, then if good enough, more matches until a regular. Comparing us and our resources to those that Wenger has at his disposal is plainly ridiculous. There is, of course, the other oft repeated refrain in footballing circles of "if your good enough, you're old enough". Perhaps he's just not good enough - yet, but he's the best option to give balance? Edited 16 November, 2008 by Faz typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 16 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Had a good game at preston. Deserved his chance to start. Looked nervous and way out of his depth. Needs match experience. Answer..loan him out. id agree with that,loaning him out to the lower leagues will bring him on quicker than we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 He looked like a fish out of water yesterday. Nowhere near ready for the first team (mind you that could be said about a few this season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Would prefer BWP on left wing at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Gobern has great potential but isn't ready for the first-team just yet IMHO. He would benefit greatly from a loan out to a League 1 side but that's very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 I think you're probably right, but if if he had JP would then have been slated for not picking one of our best and "in form" players for the starting line up. Who'd be a manager!? Certainly not JP because he isn't one. I felt sorry for the lad yesterday because he looked so eager - but he was pumped up so much after Preston it was inevitable to go pear shaped. The desperate Echo and OS did not help. He looks promising I think... in a Carlton Palmer sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Spot on. Arsene Wenger this week talking about teenagers, said bits of matches, then intermittent matches, then if good enough, more matches until a regular. Comparing us and our resources to those that Wenger has at his disposal is plainly ridiculous. There is, of course, the other oft repeated refrain in footballing circles of "if your good enough, you're old enough". Perhaps he's just not good enough - yet, but he's the best option to give balance? I must have missed the bit where Derry compared our resources to Arsenal's. He merely quoted Wenger's comments about teenage players. Yesterday, Gobern looked like a player who was nowhere near ready for the situation he was pitched into; he may well turn out to be a fine player, but he should not have started that game. He wasn't the best option on the left yesterday; BWP, for all his faults, looked better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 I think you're probably right, but if if he had JP would then have been slated for not picking one of our best and "in form" players for the starting line up. Who'd be a manager!? No, I think anyone that knows anything about football would have realised the wisdom of not pushing the lad too much. Keep him on the bench give him a few second half outings, with his enthusiasm he could have been a decent weapon coming on against tired legs. But thats the problem, for all everyone thinks JP is great with youngsters he proved yet again that he really is out of his depth and doesn't have a clue. Whereas someone who really knows about working with kids in the English league system would probably have used him sparingly, and to think that someone is now helping Mandaric at Leicester because Lowe could not swallow his pride. That is why this experiment of Lowe's is such a farce, because far from bringing on good young players the epxeriment is forcing youngsters in with too much pressure too soon and will have a negative impact on all but the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Had a good game at preston. Deserved his chance to start. Looked nervous and way out of his depth. Needs match experience. Answer..loan him out. Common misconception IMO. A good substitute appearance doesn't nescessarily merit a start in the next match, especially with young players. Players like Walcott, Rooney and Ronaldo were all eased into the first team with a few sub appearances here and there and maybe a couple of starts in the Carling Cup against lower league teams. You can't go from making a decent first team debut to suddenly being a stalwart in the first team. Especially if you are 17 and the rest of the team is barely in its 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 16 November, 2008 Share Posted 16 November, 2008 Gobern has great potential but isn't ready for the first-team just yet IMHO. He would benefit greatly from a loan out to a League 1 side but that's very unlikely. Don`t loan him out just wait till next season and he can play for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Wolves' first goal really originated when he was inexcusably caught offside. Free kick, pass, cross, goal. He looked as though he was "in over his head" right now, although he clearly has talent. We certainly looked much better after his departure. What worries me is the crowd reaction. Shouts of "Get him off" aren't going to help his confidence and enable him to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Although young Gobern's future remains uncertain what you can be sure of is that in any group of academy players only a minority will ultimately develop successful careers in the game . This is not necessarily failure of coaching or selection it's just a perfectly normal consequence of growing young men taking different paths in life , if you doubt it just look back at any old England U16 team and see just how many of them go on to long professional football careers . This is the fundamental problem with RL's strategy for the club - it relies on virtually all our youngsters being instantly capable of competing in the CCC , that's both unreasonable and extremely unlikely . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Gobern? Go somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 I felt sorry for the lad he clearly isnt ready for a starting spot he was like a Rabbit in headlights on saturday I dont understand why we dont use him as a impact sub bad management in my book it will now take a bit of doing for the lad to get his confidence back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Gobern has great potential but isn't ready for the first-team just yet IMHO. He would benefit greatly from a loan out to a League 1 side but that's very unlikely. I agree with this view. Only seen him in the televised game v Bristol R. where he was out of his depth and looked clumsy at times and well off the pace. On the games I've seen on the box this season, there are several young players who ae either out of their depth or needing much more time......ie Lancashire; James; Gobern; Mills; Thompson; Gillet......and while I'm on a somewhat negative roll.....sadly I don't see Andrew Surman ever becoming a top player despite his local lad, clean cut image....he is a good CCC player who will always be to easily brushed off the ball and lacks a cutting edge of pace to ever cut it in better company....Lallana is clearly the better future prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 A pre match injury gets him onto the bench at Preston, a couple of decent crosses, one that looked like a shot that lead to a goal and he makes the first eleven. Jan is certainly one for rewarding subs that shine with a start in the next game but invariably the player doesn't carry the form over. At left wing he was totally ineffective. He did nothign at all except lose it and pass backwards. Total waste of space and should have been subbed earlier. I have to say he was terrible at left wing against bristol City but when moved into the middle he showed Carlton Palmer like tendacies like putting an important foot in and covering the ground well. Why he played at left wing again on Saturday I will never know. I know players need to time to settle in but judging him on the three games he is no ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 what worries me is that jan seems to throw people in after a good few minutes in a match... he should know if these lads are reay or not and not just throw them in.. ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 what worries me is that jan seems to throw people in after a good few minutes in a match... he should know if these lads are reay or not and not just throw them in.. ffs He just seems to gamble that throwing another youngster in will pay off. There seems to be no thought over whether he is doing the best thing for the player. Lots of our young players have been badly treated this season. We risk setting their careers back by months or years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 You could see he was not ready at the Bristol City Match. It was not fair to start him on Saturday. As such a young player, He should come on with 10mins to go in order to build up his confidence. I suspect he has now lost that and it may therefore, take a time to rebuild it. However, he has good potential and will be back in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Be tolerant guys - he helped us to 3 points a few weeks ago. He's clearly not ready and TBH has not looked ready when Ive seen him in the ressies or U.18's either. Contrary to a few posts above, he was not subbed at half time against Bristol City - he was switched to CM second half. He has looked out of his depth on the left wing both starts he's made but at CM looked completely lost! I was very disappointed that JP experimented in that way during a game that we should have been fighting to win. Surely he should have experimented in training instead? I'd be happy for Oscar to fill a role on the bench in the coming weeks in favour of Robertson or BWP starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 He certainly has potential, and like the fact that he is a tall fella. Got rave reviews against Preston, andd has showed flashes of his ability since. However, IMHO he isn't ready to be in the starting line up. Some players might be ready at 17, but for me Oscar should not be starting matches and it was a mistake by Jan to rush him in too early. We need to be careful with these young lads that we don't ruin them before they even start their careers. Sums it up for me, should never of started in the last two games and at most should of been on the bench as he was at Preston. Let's not ruin a potentially good career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Be tolerant guys - he helped us to 3 points a few weeks ago. I think people are very tolerant with this young lad, and very tolerant in general to all the youngsters whoare trying their best. If there is any criticism regards Gobern, it's aimed more at Jan for throowing him at the deep end. That's not the young lads fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 It takes time - I can recall Terry Paine in his first full season being completely subdued by an overweight Leyton Orient full back and Rod Wallis spent his first couple of games frightened to take anyone on. Let's not write him off after three outings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExSt Peter Saint Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 Should be on the bench. From my armchair position and only seeing games on tv and listening on radio since he made his debut, I will admit I was wrong along with many others who said he should start after his 2nd half showing against Preston. He should be eased in and not have too much pressure on his young shoulders - but then same for a lot of them who aren't much older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team-saint Posted 17 November, 2008 Share Posted 17 November, 2008 all young players need at least 5 sub appearances before they start jan should have learnt that from jamie white Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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