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West Ham Build up

Saint Garrett

By Saint Garrett,
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SNSUN

SNSUN

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I would go with:

 

Boruc

Clyne Fonte Lovren Shaw

Wanyama

Cork Schneiderlin

Osvaldo ----------- Rodriguez

Lambert

 

The front 3 interchangeable, with the width and pace from the full backs. Tell Wanyama to keep it simple and tidy, and that will allow Cork and Schneiderlin to do what they do best.

 

 

 

 

I actually like that, but no Lallana? I know not everyone can play but he's captain and has probably been our best attacking outlet this season. Either bring him in for JRod or Cork (sorry Corky) and that would be a good team. (It's good as it is, just a little lacking in creativity...)

 

SHould win this game but I can see us drawing it. 1-1, although winning it will be a measure of how far we've come since promotion in comparison to West Ham. They were better than us last year, because they had a lot of Premier League experienced players, and added to that with more Premier League experienced players. Our players now have Premier League experience and, are quite frankly, better than theirs. I'm still going for the draw but am half expecting a win.

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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Depends though doesnt it. We've hit quite a few 'long balls' across the pitch while switching it around the back, and also quite a few passes from CB's into Adam/Rickie/Osvaldo/J-Rod's feet. Also with us having quite a lot of the ball, we're going to have a lot more passes on the whole. The whole 'long ball' debate has been done to death though. West Ham aren't as long ball as they're made out to be, and we're more long ball than we would probably admit.

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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Depends though doesnt it. We've hit quite a few 'long balls' across the pitch while switching it around the back, and also quite a few passes from CB's into Adam/Rickie/Osvaldo/J-Rod's feet. Also with us having quite a lot of the ball, we're going to have a lot more passes on the whole. The whole 'long ball' debate has been done to death though. West Ham aren't as long ball as they're made out to be, and we're more long ball than we would probably admit.

 

sums it up perfectly mate - well said

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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And what is in fact a "long ball" in statistical terms?

Passes over 20 yards?

 

We often have for example the right side CB playing the ball to the left back and the other way around, passes for about 25-30 yards.

Are those a long ball in the stats?

 

Think so, yes. For example....these were our long passes vs WBA on the opening day...

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694909/team-stats/20/1_PASS_12#tabs-wrapper-anchor

 

Sunderland...

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694918/team-stats/20/1_PASS_12#tabs-wrapper-anchor

 

Norwich...

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694927/team-stats/20/1_PASS_12#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Edited by Saint Garrett
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Posted

 

strange the stats don't correspond with those on Saints team stats page on who scored. They give us an average of 86 long balls for the 2 away games and 87 for the home game so that makes a total of 259 and not 225. Could it be that whoscored's stats are in fact total crock ?

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

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Said this a few times - we are much more "long ball" than WHU.

 

The long ball WHU chat normally comes from people that havent watched WHU regularly for a while.

 

Every one judging us on this is making a basic maths error; look at the possession stats, they have the ball less so of course have played fewer long passes than us. Weighting their long pass figure by possession takes them up to a total of 180 long passes, but they are also more wasteful than us... Our pass completion is 80.3% meaning that we have wasted 44 long passes in total on average, West-Ham would have wasted 50 based on those statistics on a fewer number of passes. The data shows that West-Ham's long balls are far more "hoof and hope" than ours though I don't deny that we are playing many more long balls now than previously.

Edited by farawaysaint
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Olallana

Olallana

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Thought so, cheers for the great link.

 

And if you compare with West Hams long passes against Stoke everyonoe can see that they put most of those straight forward, more of hoof and hoop...

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694929/team-stats/21/1_PASS_12#tabs-wrapper-anchor

 

And against Newcastle.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2013/matches/694917/team-stats/21/1_PASS_12#tabs-wrapper-anchor

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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
Here is what I want to see:

 

120913161109.png

 

Gives us the ideal excuse try Ramirez and Osvaldo and give MP the excuse to "drop" / "rest" Rickie after playing virtually 2 whole games over the last week at Intl. level and Osvaldo has only really played about 80mins.

 

Hmmmm, it's not bad but I am forever loathe to drop Rickie, after all how many other clubs realistically say "oh, let's drop our player because he's now an international for our shiny new toy?" I imagine Rickie would be rightly aggrieved to not be started unless he himself claims to be tired.

Edited by farawaysaint
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Hmmmm, it's not bad but I am forever loathe to drop Rickie, after all how many other clubs realistically say "oh, let's drop our player because he's now an international for our shiny new toy?" I imagine Rickie would be rightly aggrieved to not be started unless he himself claims to be tired.

 

 

Not only will we not drop Lambert, I doubt that we'll drop JWP either or even Chambers for that matter.

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Cabrone

Cabrone

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Tough game. Wham are going to be well drilled and obstinate, looking to score on set pieces or the break.

 

We are favourites but can quite easily see Wham getting a draw or even a smash and grab win.

 

Hopefully 2-0 to us - Ricky and Ossie getting on the score sheet.

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JoeShmoe

JoeShmoe

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Also wouldn't surprise me if we didn't drop Chambers, despite the fact i think we need Clyne back in the team.

 

That really would be a poor move, Clyne was exceptional last year and, as of now, is head and shoulders better than Chambers

 

If we're on some sort of mission to have to play 3 or 4 youngsters a game, that's a dangerous game to play at the expense of your best players

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polegategavin

polegategavin

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Said this a few times - we are much more "long ball" than WHU.

 

The long ball WHU chat normally comes from people that havent watched WHU regularly for a while.

 

These stats seem contradictory. How can a team that has made so many long passes have 59% of possession and 80% passing accuracy? I wonder what constitutes a long pass for these stats. It is interesting though that West Ham get a reputation of being a long ball team.

 

My perception was that they were a long ball team, however these stats are for the current season, and they have not had Carlton Cole or Andy Carroll playing, and IMHO this means they would have to play a different style. It certainly seemed to me that when Saints played them last season they were using the long ball tactic against us. Maybe this was because Allardyce felt we were weak in this area of defence.

 

I will watch with interest on Sunday, but I wouldn't expect us to be playing the "long ball" very often, I feel we mix it up, and have used the possession game, short passing and move style, and that this has been part of our problem with a lack of goals as we are sometimes trying to be over intricate.

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saintbob40

saintbob40

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With Big Victor in the middle of the park not showing for the ball it is no wonder that we have to go aerial as Boruc and the defence has no one to pass to. I said he was a West Ham type player and now the stats seem to be proving it as we morph into West Ham.

 

Victor out Cork back in and we might start playing football again.

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trousers

trousers

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With Big Victor in the middle of the park not showing for the ball it is no wonder that we have to go aerial as Boruc and the defence has no one to pass to. I said he was a West Ham type player and now the stats seem to be proving it as we morph into West Ham.

 

Victor out Cork back in and we might start playing football again.

 

Are you related to Cork? 73% of your posts are about him. :)

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Saint_Tony

Saint_Tony

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That really would be a poor move, Clyne was exceptional last year and, as of now, is head and shoulders better than Chambers

 

If we're on some sort of mission to have to play 3 or 4 youngsters a game, that's a dangerous game to play at the expense of your best players

 

Maybe MP is trying to recreate our highly succesful total football experiment. Seriously though, Clyne simply has to start, I don't think Chambers, or JWP are ready just yet for starting places

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suewhistle

suewhistle

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In The Guardian article 10 things to look out for at the weekend I think the section on Saints is a pretty fair comment:

 

Southampton performing at home

 

Sam Allardyce's West Ham are precisely the sort of side that Southampton dislike playing against. Although West Ham will be missing Andy Carroll, Joe Cole and Stewart Downing – laugh it up, Liverpool – at St Mary's, they are likely to be tough, resilient and all too willing to ensure there is nothing particularly super about this Sunday. Under both Nigel Adkins and Mauricio Pochettino Southampton have found it difficult to break down sides who are happy to leave the south coast with a 0-0 draw, partly because they can lack natural width, while their defence's habit of conceding sloppy goals in matches that they are controlling is one they need to eradicate. JS

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Glasgow_Saint

Glasgow_Saint

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In The Guardian article 10 things to look out for at the weekend I think the section on Saints is a pretty fair comment:

 

Southampton performing at home

 

Sam Allardyce's West Ham are precisely the sort of side that Southampton dislike playing against. Although West Ham will be missing Andy Carroll, Joe Cole and Stewart Downing – laugh it up, Liverpool – at St Mary's, they are likely to be tough, resilient and all too willing to ensure there is nothing particularly super about this Sunday. Under both Nigel Adkins and Mauricio Pochettino Southampton have found it difficult to break down sides who are happy to leave the south coast with a 0-0 draw, partly because they can lack natural width, while their defence's habit of conceding sloppy goals in matches that they are controlling is one they need to eradicate. JS

 

Where is the like button? Great post Sue

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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My guess is that Yoshida, Chambers & Ward-Prowse will start; Rodrigues, Clyne and Ramirez will not. Saints will win 3-2 coming from 2-1 down in the first half. Clyne is out of favour for some reason we don't know.

 

Clyne had a disrupted pre season, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Fully expect Fonte to continue, has played well this season.

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Saint Troy

Saint Troy

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My guess is that Yoshida, Chambers & Ward-Prowse will start; Rodrigues, Clyne and Ramirez will not. Saints will win 3-2 coming from 2-1 down in the first half. Clyne is out of favour for some reason we don't know.

 

I would have Clyne in the side in a flash - offers much more which is unsurprising based on his experience. Id be interested to know if clyne is out of favour or if its as simple as nursing him back from injury which hampered his preseason/ chambers doing ok / trying to keep a settled back four? Admittedly being on the bench hints at full fitness but not sure, is clyne deffo "out of favour"?

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Saint Charlie

Saint Charlie

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My guess is that Yoshida, Chambers & Ward-Prowse will start; Rodrigues, Clyne and Ramirez will not. Saints will win 3-2 coming from 2-1 down in the first half. Clyne is out of favour for some reason we don't know.

 

Clyne had a disrupted pre season, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Fully expect Fonte to continue, has played well this season.

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saintbob40

saintbob40

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Are you related to Cork? 73% of your posts are about him. :)

 

Nope, just his Vietnamese house boy.:scared:

 

We were ok for the first half an hour v ( a poor) WBA and scapped a win, crap against a crapper Sunderland (and scrapped a draw) and lost to a distinctly average Norwich where the team shape and selection was a complete blancmange. We will probably get something from the West Ham game as they have very little up front but the Liverpool away game may prove to be embarrasing unless we buck up.

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jasoneuelllfanclub

jasoneuelllfanclub

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What we need is a vibrant attack on sunday. Jrod and Lallana nice and fresh. Osvaldo getting much needed game time over the last two weeks but not too much so that he is tired. Ramirez only made sub appearance for Uruaguay. I would leave Lambert out as he looked very tired in the second half on tuesday night. With West Ham defenders more known more grit and physicality it is crying out for creative flair and pace rather than the usual one dimensional stuff we play when Lambert is on the field. Not criticising Lambert in anyway just feel we need play with pace and movement otherwise we will play into West Ham's hands.

 

boruc

clyne

fonte

lovren

shaw

wanyama

morgan

lallana

jrod

ramirez

osvaldo

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yep, complete the suicide by having neither of our best CM partnership in many years. Wouldn't surprise me, but it'd be fcking stupid.

 

if we were going to drop Morgan we might as well have taken the cash from Sociedad or the Arse. Plenty of it on offer and I'm not sure that he wouldn't have minded going to the Arse. Sociedad are in the CL group stage as well so that might have been an enviable move on hindsight if the bench becomes a serious option for him this season. Anyway don't think it will happen because he wasn't 100% for the last 2 games anyway and was probably peturbed by the late Arsenal offer, might even have wanted it.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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Probably more to do with the fact that he's got to get used to playing with Wanyama who is a different player to Cork. It will take time - however Morgan hasn't turned into a bad player suddenly.

 

--------Boruc----------

Clyne Fonte Lovren Shaw

----Morgan-Wanyama---

J-Rod---Gaston---Lallana

--------Osvaldo--------

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