washsaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I cannot believe the nonsense being spouted about NC on here. How if he had been at the helm we would never have had bids for our players, we would never have sold players, we now lack ambition, etc. Many posters on here are being VERY disrespectful to the Liebherrs by saying the new board has no clue, etc. Lest anyone forget here are some facts rather than conjecture: NC was paid 2 million per year, with very few other Prem CEOs being anywhere close to that The training ground costs doubled to 30 million It was not NC's money that he was spending....and in many instances wasting. It was the Liebherrs NC not wanting any interference - including the owners that were bankrolling "the project" - ran the real risk of no governance and potential financial catastrophe long term Commercial aspects were ignored - look how many corporate boxes were empty NC wanted to airbrush our history: and the club was around for 100+ years before he came in We would do well to remember that it is the Liebherrs that are bankrolling the club. I, personally, have no problem with the club having to live within its means as I don't want a repeat of the financial meltdown a few years back. Final note, all clubs are selling clubs. Nature of the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAmongSkates Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 And let's not forget better to be a selling club than one like Arsenal where there talent regularly move to Man City on a free at the end of contract. Sagna being the latest in an ever increasing list..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I cannot believe the nonsense being spouted about NC on here. How if he had been at the helm we would never have had bids for our players, we would never have sold players, we now lack ambition, etc. Many posters on here are being VERY disrespectful to the Liebherrs by saying the new board has no clue, etc. Lest anyone forget here are some facts rather than conjecture: NC was paid 2 million per year, with very few other Prem CEOs being anywhere close to that The training ground costs doubled to 30 million It was not NC's money that he was spending....and in many instances wasting. It was the Liebherrs NC not wanting any interference - including the owners that were bankrolling "the project" - ran the real risk of no governance and potential financial catastrophe long term Commercial aspects were ignored - look how many corporate boxes were empty NC wanted to airbrush our history: and the club was around for 100+ years before he came in We would do well to remember that it is the Liebherrs that are bankrolling the club. I, personally, have no problem with the club having to live within its means as I don't want a repeat of the financial meltdown a few years back. Final note, all clubs are selling clubs. Nature of the business. Ok, no problem. What do you think of these few points then? Can we put the nonsense to bed about "not spending his own money"? How many CEO´s do that? And do you actually think that owners/shareholders haven´t seen the accounts for 5 yrs? And that Cortese gave himself his salary? (That was probably a deal with Markus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I'm begining to wonder if NC did anything right? You wouldn't think so reading half the tosh on here. We completed the 5 year plan and the club is certainly better off in nearly everyway now in comparison to 2009. That's the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Ok, no problem. What do you think of these few points then? Can we put the nonsense to bed about "not spending his own money"? How many CEO´s do that? And do you actually think that owners/shareholders haven´t seen the accounts for 5 yrs? And that Cortese gave himself his salary? (That was probably a deal with Markus) Director remuneration policy is approved by ordinary resolution if I remember my company's act so yeah Marcus would have approved the structure and probably the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyJ Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Cortese did a fantastic job of achieving his targets in the 5 year plan. However, most of us (including myself) are gutted that we now seem to be a selling club once again. I like many wanted to believe in the long term dream of champions league football and league titles. However, in the time since Cortese has left it would seem the dream was never actually going to be attempted as the owners were not willing to take the gamble with masses of investment. This all came to a head in the early part of the season and that is why he is no longer with us. For me, the summer is going to be a period of mental readjustment as a Saints fan! But hey, I still believe it will be a lot better than the relegation threatened years of the nineties or 2005-09, so I am trying to stay positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Cortese did a fantastic job of achieving his targets in the 5 year plan. However, most of us (including myself) are gutted that we now seem to be a selling club once again. I like many wanted to believe in the long term dream of champions league football and league titles. However, in the time since Cortese has left it would seem the dream was never actually going to be attempted as the owners were not willing to take the gamble with masses of investment. This all came to a head in the early part of the season and that is why he is no longer with us. For me, the summer is going to be a period of mental readjustment as a Saints fan! But hey, I still believe it will be a lot better than the relegation threatened years of the nineties or 2005-09, so I am trying to stay positive. With our new training ground and already stellar academy self sufficiency should be a breeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 May, 2014 How many players have we sold so far? Answer is 0. The reason we have not been a selling Club is that no one wanted our players - with the exception of shaw who the new board did not sell in jan. Only other player in demand was the Ox and we did not keep him under the no watch. lots of hysteria on here at the moment with very little based on fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 £83million this from Premiership should be a help to self sufficiency, not bad for a club in admin and bottom of Lg1 when NC took over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 How many players have we sold so far? Answer is 0. The reason we have not been a selling Club is that no one wanted our players - with the exception of shaw who the new board did not sell in jan. Only other player in demand was the Ox and we did not keep him under the no watch. lots of hysteria on here at the moment with very little based on fact. How do you know who wanted who? Lallana and Morgan both could have played in the prem much sooner than they did with Saints. There has been interest from Prem clubs for a long time although not to the calibre of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 And let's not forget better to be a selling club than one like Arsenal where there talent regularly move to Man City on a free at the end of contract. Sagna being the latest in an ever increasing list..... Regularly? Like Kolo Toure? (cost £14m) Adebayor? (£25m) Nasri? (£25m) Clichy (£7m) Gosh, imagine how much they could have got if it wasn't for all those free transfers?! I'm sorry, but that post is total crap. If Sagna goes to City, for a free it will be the first one to make that move for free. The others have generated around £70m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Regularly? Like Kolo Toure? (cost £14m) Adebayor? (£25m) Nasri? (£25m) Clichy (£7m) Gosh, imagine how much they could have got if it wasn't for all those free transfers?! I'm sorry, but that post is total crap. If Sagna goes to City, for a free it will be the first one to make that move for free. The others have generated around £70m. Not to mention those who've gone elsewhere like Fabregas,Van Persie and Song, Arsenal do AOK in the transfer market but they don't hang on to players who no longer want to be there because they believe the grass is greener elsewhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I'm begining to wonder if NC did anything right? You wouldn't think so reading half the tosh on here. We completed the 5 year plan and the club is certainly better off in nearly everyway now in comparison to 2009. That's the bottom line. This, he did good things and he did bad things, from a footballing sense its hard to argue with his success. Money wasting ? If you are talking about signings, its arguable, every club makes mistakes, nature of the game. The training ground ? Yes his constant changes added to the costs, the contractors were stood down and still 'paid' during the redesign. But ultimately its hard to reason that he was in sole charge of Liebherrs bank balance completely unchecked, if that really is true then would you really want such a poor businessman/women in charge of the club ? I dont really see anyone slamming the new board, questioning ambition yes, whats wrong with that ? Where is the intent ? So in essence you are basically the same as those you are slamming, except the other side of the coin, a classic overreaction to things written on a message board without properly looking at the other side of the arguement which is pretty poor debating practice. Without NC we wouldnt be in this position in the same way as being without the Liebherrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 However, most of us (including myself) are gutted that we now seem to be a selling club once again.we always were a selling club, as the sale of Chamberlain proved, it's just that we have sped up the divisions limiting our exposure/need to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I'm begining to wonder if NC did anything right? You wouldn't think so reading half the tosh on here. We completed the 5 year plan and the club is certainly better off in nearly everyway now in comparison to 2009. That's the bottom line. On the other hand it seems the legend of NC will grow the longer he has been gone. Already we have several posters who regularly tell us that If NC was still here everything would be perfect and are already to condemn the new board for the lack of ambition before a player has even left........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 (edited) On the other hand it seems the legend of NC will grow the longer he has been gone. Already we have several posters who regularly tell us that If NC was still here everything would be perfect and are already to condemn the new board for the lack of ambition before a player has even left........ Not really, at a minimum all people have got to go by is a few wolly statements and players and Poch saying that they don't know what the plan is at Saints anymore. The other side of your argument is that Cortese gets slated more and more to the point that it would seem that some paint him to have been entirely useless and irrelevant re what we have achieved over the last 5 years. As always, the truth is somewhere inbetween. Edited 16 May, 2014 by Dig Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 i agree with digs, cortese done some good things i.e sacking hypo's sister for doing a fart in his face, and he done some dumb things i.e. doing a poo in frances benali's swimming pool. Cortese was enigma, a mercurial mix of light and shade. He was a light-shade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 He was spending KL's money so if she thought he was spending too much she could have told him surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 May, 2014 errrrr......why do you think Cortese is no longer at the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Cortese was great, the new board could yet be great but have only just started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Big fishes eat little fishes. Always have, always will. NC or no NC the bigger clubs were always going to be after our stars. Thats the way they stay bigger clubs. If not ours, someone elses. It is the price of success for clubs like us. We will always be preyed upon. Liverpool did a great job in keeping their star player last year. We can only hope that the club has the resolve and the players want to stay. There are always other CEOs, managers and players though. We just have to hope that we replace with as good as if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 glad to see the back of cortese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 On the other hand it seems the legend of NC will grow the longer he has been gone. Already we have several posters who regularly tell us that If NC was still here everything would be perfect and are already to condemn the new board for the lack of ambition before a player has even left........ Who are these posters? Or is this another forum legend? Never read anyone claiming this. Whatever happened to the Cult of Cortese? He was spending Markus' money, presumably as agreed with Markus before his untimely death. Once KL finally inherited the company last year (not as many erroneously think immediately after he died) she would have known what he was spending and presumably did not like it too much. But in the end, he was only doing what his friend and business partner wanted him to do. Don't know whether it was good or bad, but so far the current board have not demonstrated any real desire to move forward and neither have they sold any players ot done anything particularly wrong. I would suggest it is the OP who is spouting nonsense, not least an inability to realise that the club was owned by Markus and now by KL, nothing to do with the wider family "the Liebherrs". Once we have some facts and something actually happens then perhaps we can judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 He was spending KL's money so if she thought he was spending too much she could have told him surely? On top of that, and as you have pointed out, odd to promote the CFO to CEO if you are unhappy with your companies finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 He was spending KL's money so if she thought he was spending too much she could have told him surely? I expect she did tell him that last autumn, hence him handing in his notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I expect she did tell him that last autumn, hence him handing in his notice. Im sure she did, but fact is she must have sanctioned most of the spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Where's Trousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Im sure she did, but fact is she must have sanctioned most of the spending. Not necessarily. There have always been tales of a fund set up by the late Markus to see Saints achieve their initial ambitions. It could well be that initially we were funded by that and then it ran out. Seems to me that the -50 million marker was the threshhold point. As I keep telling you all Cortese ran everything lock stock and barrel for nigh on 3 years, then he was gradually excluded from everything. It could be that he and another bloke were the executors and that they had a free rein in some matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Im sure she did, but fact is she must have sanctioned most of the spending. It depends how much control Cortese had. I expect KL trusted her dads judgement on him but when it became clear he was playing fantasy football with her money I expect she forced him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 If we have another 27 years run in the top league, that will be fantastic. I see success as simply remaining a premier league club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 It depends how much control Cortese had. I expect KL trusted her dads judgement on him but when it became clear he was playing fantasy football with her money I expect she forced him out. How are we in fantasy land with money? Was it when he signed up the players on long term deals? Paid them too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I expect she did tell him that last autumn, hence him handing in his notice. She could have just sacked him on the spot if he was that reckless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 How are we in fantasy land with money? Was it when he signed up the players on long term deals? Paid them too much? I think him playing fantasy furniture did for him probably more than anything he did with players, which in general he did an excellent job. And playing fantasy football in his bulls hi tting interviews with his acolytes in the Daily Mail and Sky Sports News wouldn't have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 I think him playing fantasy furniture did for him probably more than anything he did with players, which in general he did an excellent job. And playing fantasy football in his bulls hi tting interviews with his acolytes in the Daily Mail and Sky Sports News wouldn't have helped. LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 It depends how much control Cortese had. I expect KL trusted her dads judgement on him but when it became clear he was playing fantasy football with her money I expect she forced him out. You're right Cortese was effectively forced out...he was offered the prospect of Freddy looking over his shoulder and reporting back to KL. Not exactly the environment he was used to or one in which he could deliver unhindered continued success. Wrong or right, Cortese was handed a poison chalice...we're starting to get a flavour of the new world offered to him...great front, poor delivery. Bit like the Lib Dems. (-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 You're right Cortese was effectively forced out...he was offered the prospect of Freddy looking over his shoulder and reporting back to KL. Not exactly the environment he was used to or one in which he could deliver unhindered continued success. Wrong or right, Cortese was handed a poison chalice...we're starting to get a flavour of the new world offered to him...great front, poor delivery. Bit like the Lib Dems. (-; To right bloody owners wanting to have say in the football club they run:hunt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 To right bloody owners wanting to have say in the football club they run:hunt: Imagine if she is the one trying to flog shaw and Lallana on order to dip her hand in the clubs pockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 What we need is a bit more champions league aims bullsh*t in the media, a few 'the chairman is working incredibly hard behind the scenes' quotes from poch and Ralph to get the Star and express on side and run a few gushing articles on how amazing he is with his vision and drive and everything will be fine again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 What we need is a bit more champions league aims bullsh*t in the media, a few 'the chairman is working incredibly hard behind the scenes' quotes from poch and Ralph to get the Star and express on side and run a few gushing articles on how amazing he is with his vision and drive and everything will be fine again. Would be nice. Better than the club trying to flog our best players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Imagine if she is the one trying to flog shaw and Lallana on order to dip her hand in the clubs pockets Dip her hand in her own pocket 'Brett' how is that going to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Would be nice. Better than the club trying to flog our best players They're not trying to flog our best players Brett, we're getting bids on our best players, who are the most desirable in the lesgue from two or the worlds biggest clubs. Hardly the same is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Imagine if she is the one trying to flog shaw and Lallana on order to dip her hand in the clubs pockets which would in effect be her pockets......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 which would in effect be her pockets......... Not really. She may want the money for another business. We are not a bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 They're not trying to flog our best players Brett, we're getting bids on our best players, who are the most desirable in the lesgue from two or the worlds biggest clubs. Hardly the same is it. Dunno mate, just going from what I read in the papers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 errrrr......why do you think Cortese is no longer at the club? You've certainly added first class discussion to your thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Dunno mate, just going from what I read in the papers Where have the papers said that the board are proactively trying to sell players Brett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 Where have the papers said that the board are proactively trying to sell players Brett? They said on talksport the hotter day that we need to sell. They also said once that we want champions league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 They said on talksport the hotter day that we need to sell. They also said once that we want champions league Talksport Brett, Jesus Christ. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascadia Saint Posted 16 May, 2014 Share Posted 16 May, 2014 lots of hysteria on here at the moment with very little based on fact. This should be in big letters underneath the SaintsWeb banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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