hypochondriac Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Agents aren't telling him what to post on his own twitter Eh? What has that got to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 If he stays we should back him heartily, he's a very good player who has been badly advised by agents who want to make money out of him. We will have to forgive and forget like we did with Puncheon agents did not advise him to post crap on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 If his head is still in Liverpool we should ask James Beattie if he wants a defender on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 It wouldn't be the first time n the history of football that a player agitated for a transfer, didn't get it, and then had to buckle down. I'm pretty sure the club will not be letting this one go until our valuation is met and we have a replacement lined up. If those two things don't happen he'll have to stay, and play if he wants to keep his international place. He'll be gone IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 He seems to have re-tweeted what a wonderful club Atl Madrid is. Now I am not a Twitter user so have no idea about reading between the lines. Well if his head is in Liverpool, I'd hate to think what body part is in Madrid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Well if his head is in Liverpool, I'd hate to think what body part is in Madrid... Can't be his cock as it is firmly attached to his forehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Exactly this, people seem not to understand this point, it comes to a point in time, i.e now, that we need to be thinking about the coming season. Losing 3 first teamers is already a massive issue. He wont strike for long, nor will he be happy to be dropped into the reserves as it impacts his career. Id be inclined to say 'You signed a contract last year, you arent going anywhere until we have a replacement here and our asking price met, Id suggest you put up and shut up' Isn't that what we are already saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 exactly, Lovrens alleged strike, quotes in the media have cost our club millions. Therefore would it not be best for the longterm that our players are shown that the strik option etc will not work. Yes his wages are huge and a big cost but is peanuts to the big picture. if he was put in the reserves or refuses to train (I assume he would not get paid) he would come round again pretty quickly especially as he saw the potential of him going to greater things disappear as he rots away. If the club/board stood up and did that i would believe that really were the real deal and had some balls not just pussies Out of interest, how have his quotes in the media cost our club millions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Out of interest, how have his quotes in the media cost our club millions? By turning us into forced sellers. I am not so sure that he has cost us millions though and that he could also be re assimilated into the squad (but I doubt very much that that will happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 By turning us into forced sellers. I am not so sure that he has cost us millions though and that he could also be re assimilated into the squad (but I doubt very much that that will happen) Mmmm yes, well the only way I can see that it would cost us anything would be if we sold for a loss and/or caught a cold on a replacement - neither of which have happened so far. A very strange assertion by Oldie IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Mmmm yes, well the only way I can see that it would cost us anything would be if we sold for a loss and/or caught a cold on a replacement - neither of which have happened so far. A very strange assertion by Oldie IMHO Opportunity cost of several million if he goes for Liverpool's figure of 16mill or so. This is what he's throwing a hissy fit for and it is not near our valuation, he'll probably get his way though based on past players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Opportunity cost of several million if he goes for Liverpool's figure of 16mill Sorry - still don't get it. Maybe you mean that he is worth more than £16m - a moot point. However the claim was that his "quotes have cost us millions" - which doesn't make sense to me, although I am being a tad pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 (edited) ... Edited 22 July, 2014 by farawaysaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Sorry - still don't get it. Maybe you mean that he is worth more than £16m - a moot point. However the claim was that his "quotes have cost us millions" - which doesn't make sense to me, although I am being a tad pedantic. No, they haven't cost us anything unless we end up selling him for less than we think he's worth. It's not for me to put meanings into other people's words but I take it to mean that his quotes have reduced the figure that we might otherwise have got for him, which can never be proven of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 It wouldn't be the first time n the history of football that a player agitated for a transfer, didn't get it, and then had to buckle down. I'm pretty sure the club will not be letting this one go until our valuation is met and we have a replacement lined up. If those two things don't happen he'll have to stay, and play if he wants to keep his international place. He'll be gone IMO. How many times has a player came out with a statement like Lovren's and managed to have a further successful career at that club? It won't happen. And like Lallana, he has weakened our bargaining position, possibly costing us money. I'd love to see us stick him training with the reserves for a year, but that's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Out of interest, how have his quotes in the media cost our club millions? If a player comes out and tells the world his head is in Liverpool our club has lost any bargaining position. Liverpool will be happY that he is damaged goods with the fans and that our board then will have to accept he will have to go. If he says it privately, it would still be damaging but could be managed. So instead of the club of staying firm in its valuation they are in the hands of the buying club.Hence. Liverpool now saying the ball is the our court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Sorry - still don't get it. Maybe you mean that he is worth more than £16m - a moot point. However the claim was that his "quotes have cost us millions" - which doesn't make sense to me, although I am being a tad pedantic. Iam a little surprised you can't see how Lovrens actions are not affecting our clubs ability to get a top price. Imagine you are selling a car and want 20k but as you offer it to the buyer your other half comes out and says, I don't like it and if you don't sell it were getting divorced (ok some would be delighted) but the buyer would then drop the figure he was going to offer. Human nature and bargaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Iam a little surprised you can't see how Lovrens actions are not affecting our clubs ability to get a top price. Imagine you are selling a car and want 20k but as you offer it to the buyer your other half comes out and says, I don't like it and if you don't sell it were getting divorced (ok some would be delighted) but the buyer would then drop the figure he was going to offer. Human nature and bargaining I don't accept that. If it were so, then arrangements could be made on the sly that the sought after player deliberately makes statements like this to reduce his price and then splits the difference with the buying club, in terms of increased wages or whatever. Ultimately, we still have the whip-hand in that if we don't accept this reduced offer, we don't need to sell and then it still depends how much they want to buy. We can't allow this to become a precedent, first with Lallana spouting off his gob and now Lovren. If that costs us millions in reduced fees, do you really think that we would accept it? Pretty soon, all the big clubs who have players wanting to join them would tell the players to state publically that they wanted to go to that club to deliberately reduce the fee. I suspect that one answer would be to sell him to another club, if we wouldn't be prepared to let him rot in the reserves if he didn't want to play for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Iam a little surprised you can't see how Lovrens actions are not affecting our clubs ability to get a top price. Imagine you are selling a car and want 20k but as you offer it to the buyer your other half comes out and says, I don't like it and if you don't sell it were getting divorced (ok some would be delighted) but the buyer would then drop the figure he was going to offer. Human nature and bargaining It's a very dubious assertion I am afraid. Despite what you say, unless we sell him for a cut price, his words have still not cost us millions have they? As far as I know he has not been sold, and he won't be unless our valuation is met. If he is sold, and our valuation is met, we will have made a healthy profit. If you believe that our valuation of Lovren has been artificially lowered by his public outburst then I am afraid I totally disagree - but as Whitey said, it can never be proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 I don't buy it either. If you talk about Osvaldo, then yes, I would agree with you. Any acerbic comments could justifiably be aimed towards him rather than Lovren. The main difference I guess is our initial buying price and the appeal of the players to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 I don't accept that. If it were so, then arrangements could be made on the sly that the sought after player deliberately makes statements like this to reduce his price and then splits the difference with the buying club, in terms of increased wages or whatever. Ultimately, we still have the whip-hand in that if we don't accept this reduced offer, we don't need to sell and then it still depends how much they want to buy. We can't allow this to become a precedent, first with Lallana spouting off his gob and now Lovren. If that costs us millions in reduced fees, do you really think that we would accept it? Pretty soon, all the big clubs who have players wanting to join them would tell the players to state publically that they wanted to go to that club to deliberately reduce the fee. I suspect that one answer would be to sell him to another club, if we wouldn't be prepared to let him rot in the reserves if he didn't want to play for us.2 players going to Liverpool both giving negative comments in the media. You are in the cynical world of football agents and clubs use different means to unsettle or get a player to move. We are talking about big business and their interest in getting the price down. The palyers get their cut by the massive wage hike in moving club, with all that it entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 It's a very dubious assertion I am afraid. Despite what you say, unless we sell him for a cut price, his words have still not cost us millions have they? As far as I know he has not been sold, and he won't be unless our valuation is met. If he is sold, and our valuation is met, we will have made a healthy profit. If you believe that our valuation of Lovren has been artificially lowered by his public outburst then I am afraid I totally disagree - but as Whitey said, it can never be proven. if Lovren had said he was happy to stay, Liverpool would have to approach and saints could say 'no he's happy, but thank-you. if you want to offer a mega price we might consider' Rather than 'my head is in Liverpool' If you wish not to accept the 2 different situations, and do not believe that our bargaining position has not been affected i will have to accept that. i do hope today i meet some people with the same mindset and will have a good day purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 If the Don were still at Saints then any player saying 'my head is in Liverpool' would likely get the response 'Where do you want the rest of your body buried ?'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 if Lovren had said he was happy to stay, Liverpool would have to approach and saints could say 'no he's happy, but thank-you. if you want to offer a mega price we might consider' Rather than 'my head is in Liverpool' If you wish not to accept the 2 different situations, and do not believe that our bargaining position has not been affected i will have to accept that. i do hope today i meet some people with the same mindset and will have a good day purchasing. Sorry but I totally disagree. As Wes Tender said, we hold the aces here. We have a valuation (which is probably inflated) and they either pay it or he goes nowhere. Even if he ends up going for slightly less than our valuation, we still won't have lost millions. You seem to think that if you want to buy something, and that "something" wants you to own it, the current owner is going to be obliged to sell it to you cheaper. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 (edited) Sorry but I totally disagree. As Wes Tender said, we hold the aces here. We have a valuation (which is probably inflated) and they either pay it or he goes nowhere. Even if he ends up going for slightly less than our valuation, we still won't have lost millions. You seem to think that if you want to buy something, and that "something" wants you to own it, the current owner is going to be obliged to sell it to you cheaper. Good luck with that. but patently our valuation will be eroded as Lovrens position is close ot being untenable. The fans will take a lot to win over let alone the squad with his no train antics. It does not matter what he cost, it is what we could have got for him. Obviously you believe our valuation of him has not been reduced due to his antics, i myself believe our expectations of a fee will be downgraded. We do not hold the aces any longer Our ability to pretend we dont need to sell has been blown out of the water, Edited 23 July, 2014 by OldNick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 2 players going to Liverpool both giving negative comments in the media. You are in the cynical world of football agents and clubs use different means to unsettle or get a player to move. We are talking about big business and their interest in getting the price down. The palyers get their cut by the massive wage hike in moving club, with all that it entails. Exactly as you say, two players coming out with this spiel begins to look like a tactic to reduce the price and it needs to be stamped on hard. Because we do not need to sell any players because of our financial situation, then we are in a good position to play hardball with Liverpool. There is an equal imperative for this big business to keep the price up and the simple laws of supply and demand can assist us. If there is any truth in the rumours that Chelsea want to buy him, then they can offer the £25 million and take him away from Liverpool. Or it is possible that in the devious world of football, it has been engineered that Chelsea express their interest, either to unerve Liverpool and get them to spend more of their budget, or just to annoy the hell out of them. If Chelsea do indeed want him, then we really ought to sell "my head is already at Liverpool" Lovren to them, just to put his nose out of joint. More chance of him bench-warming there too, which again would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 but patently our valuation will be eroded as Lovrens position is close ot being untenable. The fans will take a lot to win over let alone the squad with his no train antics. It does not matter what he cost, it is what we could have got for him. Obviously you believe our valuation of him has not been reduced due to his antics, i myself believe our expectations of a fee will be downgraded. We do not hold the aces any longer I don't agree - sorry. We will have to leave it at that until he is sold. If the fee is disclosed, then it might be possible to debate whether or not our original valuation had been eroded. Even then, it will just be an opinion based on ones own idea of his market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed&White Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Liverpool will have a price they will not go beyond. That is less than our valuation. They are not that desperate. That is clear from the fact they have yet to follow up. Lovren cannot dictate his value and no one else seems to be interested at £16m so I agree with kpturner. His tantrums will not cause a loss to Saints. The same applied to Lallana. He had no effect on value another club were prepared to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 I don't agree - sorry. We will have to leave it at that until he is sold. If the fee is disclosed, then it might be possible to debate whether or not our original valuation had been eroded. Even then, it will just be an opinion based on ones own idea of his market value.Kp i always respect your posts but on this occasion we will have to beg to differ....but Iam right;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Kp i always respect your posts but on this occasion we will have to beg to differ....but Iam right;) I admire your resolve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Liverpool will have a price they will not go beyond. That is less than our valuation. They are not that desperate. That is clear from the fact they have yet to follow up. Lovren cannot dictate his value and no one else seems to be interested at £16m so I agree with kpturner. His tantrums will not cause a loss to Saints. The same applied to Lallana. He had no effect on value another club were prepared to pay. If Liverpool withdraw from buying Lovren because the price we want for him is too rich for them, then all of their efforts to put pressure on us through their media mates will backfire on them spectacularly. All of these reports have had him as good as sold for the past few weeks and therefore they will have egg all over their face if it doesn't come to pass. On the other hand, if they end up paying near enough what we want if we have to sell, then conversely they will also be seen as mugs, in the same way that the price they paid for Lallana is being ridiculed because he cost more than German International Tony Kroos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Reckon that Lovren will end up at Old Trafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Have Liverpool been linked with any other centre halves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Not sure they have, but I have been hearing (admittedly on Talk****e) more and more murmurs about DL to OT. As I said earlier on this thread, I always thought that when Vidic announced he was off months and months ago, I thought that DL would be a perfect replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Not sure they have, but I have been hearing (admittedly on Talk****e) more and more murmurs about DL to OT. As I said earlier on this thread, I always thought that when Vidic announced he was off months and months ago, I thought that DL would be a perfect replacement. I'm surprised he's not been linked more publicly to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 If Lovren's going to leave, I'd really enjoy United coming and pinching him from under Liverpool's noses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 If Lovren's going to leave, I'd really enjoy United coming and pinching him from under Liverpool's noses. I never thought I'd want one of our better players to join Man Utd, but yes, be delighted if he ends up somewhere other than L/pool, or the Norfff London yobbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Davor Lovren has just tweeted this rather cryptic message.......17.8 I wonder if that is a fee agreed for Dejan. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Davor Lovren has just tweeted this rather cryptic message.......17.8 I wonder if that is a fee agreed for Dejan. Date for transfer, day of Liverpool match ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Davor Lovren has just tweeted this rather cryptic message.......17.8 I wonder if that is a fee agreed for Dejan. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk It's actually a reference to his IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Current hot tub temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Davor Lovren has just tweeted this rather cryptic message.......17.8 I wonder if that is a fee agreed for Dejan. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk If he did it's not there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grezz Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 It's the passage in his bible, Brendan 17:8 "and the devil shalt come a'callin and ye shall thee p1ss all over the saints and swear allegiance to him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 If he did it's not there now. Yeah I looked for it too - perhaps he thought better to not give the current price away in case others were thinking of bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingbridgeSaint Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Its still there - https://twitter.com/LovrenDavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Utter **** slating Lovren to his brother. Really? Mark Pickett @7pickett75 5m @LovrenDavor @northernsaint0 all I know is your brother is a unloyal money grabbing **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Utter **** slating Lovren to his brother. Really? Mark Pickett @7pickett75 5m @LovrenDavor @northernsaint0 all I know is your brother is a unloyal money grabbing **** Don't be so ****ing precious, if Lovern hadn't acted like a prize **** first people wouldn't be slating him, i'm sure his brother can deal with it and maybe learn from it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Dave Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Utter **** slating Lovren to his brother. Really? Mark Pickett @7pickett75 5m @LovrenDavor @northernsaint0 all I know is your brother is a unloyal money grabbing **** Funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Don't be so ****ing precious, if Lovern hadn't acted like a prize **** first people wouldn't be slating him, i'm sure his brother can deal with it and maybe learn from it himself. Maybe we can have lighted torch parade outside his mum's house as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 I would like lovren to stay but if he is moving , then anywhere other than the thieving scouse gits and the Argie traitor who is-at the spuds Ideally somewhere in Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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