modern matron Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Frankly I'm gobsmacked at the ongoing criticism of Lallana on the forum! He is our most gifted young player - hence premier league interest from Fulham, Stoke, Spuds etc - yet all I read is criticism of his attitude, showboating, lack of positional sense, lack of commitment and so on. This is his first season in the side, and some of the things he has done have been brilliant, reminiscent of MLT. I understand he has expressed loyalty yet some of our so called fans are starting to get on his case big time. My opinion is that we have a young side coached in a way, that I no longer support, and AL has been asked to play in a certain way my Jan that involves playing in a free role. I love watching him play and believe that he will develop into a top player with the right coaching. My final word is that the cheering of another young player - David McGoldrick - being substituted was a disgrace and helped noone. Do we have the most disloyal fans in the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 So are people not allowed to express their opinions then? Right...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby87 Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Agreed, Lallana is still a young player and still needs time to develop. His touch, short passing and dribbling is better than anything I have seen this season in the Championship. His final third still needs to improve but he still a very young player. In a season which has so far been limited in positives he is definitely one of them. Regarding McGoldrick whilst I am not the biggest fan of him to jeer your own young player is foolish and quite frankly plain dumb. Whilst this season has been frustrating I blame the board and management for some stupid decisions. You can't say that the players have not been giving it their all, certainly more than since the WGS days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Frankly I'm gobsmacked at the ongoing criticism of Lallana on the forum! He is our most gifted young player - hence premier league interest from Fulham, Stoke, Spuds etc - yet all I read is criticism of his attitude, showboating, lack of positional sense, lack of commitment and so on. This is his first season in the side, and some of the things he has done have been brilliant, reminiscent of MLT. I understand he has expressed loyalty yet some of our so called fans are starting to get on his case big time. My opinion is that we have a young side coached in a way, that I no longer support, and AL has been asked to play in a certain way my Jan that involves playing in a free role. I love watching him play and believe that he will develop into a top player with the right coaching. My final word is that the cheering of another young player - David McGoldrick - being substituted was a disgrace and helped noone. Do we have the most disloyal fans in the Championship? To be fair, david mcgoldrick playing also helps no-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 McGoal-drought is a complete waste of a shirt - can't be arsed, can't score, has no vision to pass the ball at the right time...I could go on... suffice to say, at best, he needs time in the reserves to remember what it feels like to be hungry for the 1st team again (not that I think that will do him any good really. Bottom line though is that our friend Jan is slowly killing off what little fragile confidence these youngsters had because he has not the slightest inkling how to coach them for the CCC. In fact, I am of the opinion that its gone too far now - he's lost the dressing room and the lads do not believe in him or indeed themselves. The experiment has to stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Monkey Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Ok...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totton Red Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Frankly I'm gobsmacked at the ongoing criticism of Lallana on the forum! He is our most gifted young player - hence premier league interest from Fulham, Stoke, Spuds etc - yet all I read is criticism of his attitude, showboating, lack of positional sense, lack of commitment and so on. This is his first season in the side, and some of the things he has done have been brilliant, reminiscent of MLT. I understand he has expressed loyalty yet some of our so called fans are starting to get on his case big time. My opinion is that we have a young side coached in a way, that I no longer support, and AL has been asked to play in a certain way my Jan that involves playing in a free role. I love watching him play and believe that he will develop into a top player with the right coaching. My final word is that the cheering of another young player - David McGoldrick - being substituted was a disgrace and helped noone. Do we have the most disloyal fans in the Championship? Rather dramatic! will wait to see the league table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby87 Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 In fairness to McGoldrick he has scored 8 goals playing as an isolated forward with no support. He has shown what he is capable of on occasions but playing him on his own against two huge CB's will never ever work. We need a change in manager before it is too late. Give a young English manager a chance. That Leceister manager would have been perfect. Oh wait..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 An isolated striker yes, but one who has played each of the last 10 games and scored in none of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Maybe booing McGoldrick will be the kick up the backside that he needs. What do you expect? A polite 'well done old chap'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Leave Adam alone! Seriously though, Lallana is a talented kid, and will no doubt be a very, very good player, but he seems a bit lost in the current team. DMG is pish though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 In fairness to McGoldrick he has scored 8 goals playing as an isolated forward with no support. He has shown what he is capable of on occasions but playing him on his own against two huge CB's will never ever work. We need a change in manager before it is too late. Give a young English manager a chance. That Leceister manager would have been perfect. Oh wait..... I can only see he has scored 7, and that includes 2 against the mighty Exeter, 1 from the penalty spot and the one at Derby, which really should be credited to Lallana. So probably 3 in open play in the league from what, 23 or 24 games???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 22 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Leave Adam alone! Seriously though, Lallana is a talented kid, and will no doubt be a very, very good player, but he seems a bit lost in the current team. DMG is pish though. Ponty, surely we should be criticising the management not the youngsters, I watched Lallana in front of the Itchen chase around lie a madman at times so I will not accept this ridiculous campaign to undermine him. Frankly DMG needs backing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Whilst I have to disagree with MM in that I don't think that anybody is above critisism, I would concur that both AL and DMG are young professionals learning their trade. Added to that they have both been thrown in the deep end due to the mess that we are currently in. Those who do critisise them though should perhaps think back a season and remember the sort of stick that KD took on here - who would want to be without KD this season - not many. Perhaps MM has a point and these young players time is yet to come - problem is, where will SFC be when they finally start to produce the goods consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Football fans MM, what you gonna do eh? It's been the same for as long as I can remember. I can remember Matt getting slated from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 22 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2008 I can only see he has scored 7, and that includes 2 against the mighty Exeter, 1 from the penalty spot and the one at Derby, which really should be credited to Lallana. So probably 3 in open play in the league from what, 23 or 24 games???? Not playing alongside a centre forward puts him at something of a disadvantage don't you think? The tactics at home are a joke 8 goals in 12 matches with 1 win! Time for a change before we are relegated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 No one's going to disagree with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 Not playing alongside a centre forward puts him at something of a disadvantage don't you think? The tactics at home are a joke 8 goals in 12 matches with 1 win! Time for a change before we are relegated.... You're preaching to the converted here fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 22 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2008 So are people not allowed to express their opinions then? Right...... Papa obviously they are. I don't understand why our so called supporters turn so quickly on a young player - especially our best youn player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 December, 2008 Share Posted 22 December, 2008 I don't think anyone's "turned" on Lallana. They are just frustrated that he rarely produces anything of note during matches considering he has a lot of ability. This, added to a propensity to miss easy chances and hit pea-rollers is annoying. Add to the fact that he is playing in silly positions (which may actually be the manager's fault - frankly, who knows what he is "supposed" to be doing), and you have an annoying mix. It is annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Agreed, Lallana is still a young player and still needs time to develop. His touch, short passing and dribbling is better than anything I have seen this season in the Championship. His final third still needs to improve but he still a very young player. In a season which has so far been limited in positives he is definitely one of them. Regarding McGoldrick whilst I am not the biggest fan of him to jeer your own young player is foolish and quite frankly plain dumb. Whilst this season has been frustrating I blame the board and management for some stupid decisions. You can't say that the players have not been giving it their all, certainly more than since the WGS days. Lallana is a talented player I'll give you that, but to be honest I don't think that he has been beneficial to the team as a whole this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englesaint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 MM ASFC has said it all. The Lallana & DMG situations are completely different. AL has suffered nothing in the ground and nor will he - simply a few posters have pointed out that he needs to wake up to his tactical responsibilities fairly quickly and that some help from our (utterly static) coach is desperately needed. DMG has finally got booed after several months of complete and utter laziness - I personally thought he couldn't get worse after Barnsley & Blackpool but clearly I was wrong. People will always give a certain amount of time to a trier . . but this guy ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Papa obviously they are. I don't understand why our so called supporters turn so quickly on a young player - especially our best youn player? I don't think anyone has turned on Lallana. People have just criticised certain aspects of his play etc, on here. I agree with you that he's a talented kid and will come good soon, whether it be with us or someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Oh whoopie, another "don't criticize the team or players" thread. Oh dear, let's not hurt their feelings, they might not perform as well! What a BS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 I wish I could say with certainty, but since moving to Australia 5 years ago I have only seen Saints from television highlights so I am only making a statement based on watching players from past seasons and making comparisons to present day players. My belief is that both DMG and Lallana are young players with alot of potential, but because of the dearth of talent in the rest of the team, they are unable to fulfill their potentials....yet... There have been countless players in the past who were deemed lazy (MLT springs to mind! - but you could add Rasiak to that list, or if you want to go back far enough then add the likes of Frank Worthington or Peter Osgood). The difference being is that they were surrounded by other talented players who complemented their abilities (how many goals would Ted McDougall have scored without Phil Boyer to do all his legwork? - and yes, I am showing my age...) The balance of the team is all wrong. Now whether that is the Manager's fault, or that he just has to make do with the players at his disposal and that they aren't good enough is a whole different debate. One thing is for sure - negativity does NOTHING to improve confidence. I do wish people would learn the difference between destructive and constructive criticism. Yes, based on what I have seen and read, neither of the players deserve to be in the team based on current form, but personal attacks are both rude and serve no purpose. For those that want them out of the team - come up with an alternative solution BASED ON THE PLAYERS AT OUR DISPOSAL (ie NOT players who are loaned out to other clubs!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Do we have the most disloyal fans in the Championship? No we have the most put upon and the ones who have to suffer an almost daily soap opera as our club is run into the ground by morons. Should we be sheep and just accept everything that happens then or does the paying customer bit not give us a right or opinion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 23 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 December, 2008 No we don't. Lallana doesn't get booed or anything. People criticise, or point out that his end product isn't good enough, which is isn't, but they support him. DMG is a different matter altogether and anyone having a go at the fans simply hasn't seen enough of the player. It has NOTHING to do with quality. No-one minds if he isn't good enough. That would be the clubs problem or the managers poor choice. Ormerod was loved, same with Evans and many other poor players who did their very best. DMG has been treated extremely leniently by the fans considering. This is a guy who chooses not to run. Never breaks a sweat for his club, makes it painfully obvious he doesn't give a toss. Nothing but complete distain for those that love the club. How many would give anything to play for saints? Okay, most of us would be terrible, but we'd give everything and run all day. He just doesn't want to. Too busy perfecting his strut. Thinks he's made it and doesn't have to work hard. He's never in the right position, doesn't track back, and doesn't defend from the front, which is something all our decent sides have focused on. I don't judge any of the other players for being poor, I see most of them trying their best. But I watching DMG is a huge slap in the face for any Saints fan, so lets not have those ignorant to the situation having a go at the fans for showing their frustration. No club should have to put up with someone so blatantly showing no respect for the shirt. Your post is your opinion but sums up my point. Both are young players in their first full season as starters. You have completely assassinated DMG and probably cheered or booed him off the pitch on Saturday. This obsession about him not running about enough is also irritating! The guy is struggling, he's left up front without support usually against 2 giant centre backs and is obviously losing confidence. Your outbursts certainly don't help. I worry that it will be Lallan's turn for this treatment next. It's obvious to me that both players needs support, it's Lowe and Portvliet who should be criticised....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.comsaint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Seems MLT echoes what you're saying MM... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3997391.It_s_not_fair_on_McGoldrick__says_Le_Tiss/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahill Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Agree - booing your own players is not good, just as bating your own fans over Man U tickets is not good either. We need to encourage fans to come not to put them off. But regular fans are getting frustrated, one home win in 12 and that was versus 10 men. DMG just does not seem interested though so I can see why he gets criticisim. Lallana is different, he tries but seems lost in the clueless formation that we are playing - he has nothing to feed off so he is probably getting frustrated too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Papa obviously they are. I don't understand why our so called supporters turn so quickly on a young player - especially our best youn player? If hes the best weve got then we really are in the sh1t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Your post is your opinion but sums up my point. Both are young players in their first full season as starters. You have completely assassinated DMG and probably cheered or booed him off the pitch on Saturday. This obsession about him not running about enough is also irritating! The guy is struggling, he's left up front without support usually against 2 giant centre backs and is obviously losing confidence. Your outbursts certainly don't help. I worry that it will be Lallan's turn for this treatment next. It's obvious to me that both players needs support, it's Lowe and Portvliet who should be criticised....... Hes had over 20 games of support to get things right and it aint working. So whats wrong with saying that ? Even Jan criticized the strikers after that game. Some times players need a good rollicking, some need consolling. DMG has had both and as Adrian says, you make up the lack of skill with effort and try harder. DMG does neither. He should have been dropped a long time ago and that is the Managers fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Sorry but you've called fans dumb then made a statement which shows you haven't even been watching. There's no way in hell you could say that about McGoldrick if you'd seen him. I watch him very closely. Saturday, not one sprint, not one. Never went past a light jog. I don't care if players aren't good enough, that's not their fault. No-one was booing about quality, it was EFFORT. Get your facts straight. We had to play with 10 men the whole time he was on the pitch on saturday. That is not good enough. Totally agree Adrian, he's a lazy cvnt. I can cope with limited players trying their best because we've had a few over the years but seriously, this guy is Keith Cassels with a worse attitude and even less ability. He couldn't score a solitary goal in Leagues 1 & 2 on loan, what eijit decided to give him a 3 year deal FFS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Ignoring the personalities involved in this debate, the discussion revolves around one concept; whether it is right to boo the players or not. If one has made an effort to attend and paid out money in exchange for entertainment, one has a perfect right to expect that the players do their utmost to earn their wages, which even at the lower end of the scale would dwarf the earnings of most at the game. Furthermore, they are supposed to be professionals. Is it therefore OK for the manager to bend their ears, but we who have paid to watch them, who effectively by our attendance pay their wages should have no say? Kelvin was cited as an example of a player who got lots of flack, but because he is a true professional it made him determined to prove the doubters wrong. Has McGoldrick got the balls to take on board the criticism and prove his detractors wrong? I don't see much effort in that direction yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Both lallana and McGoldrick have bags of talent and technical ability, to me that is clear ! The problem therefore lies with the management of young players and this is what the Dutch guys are supposed to excel at ! Tactics and motivation are the key ! The system 4-2-1-2-1 (or whatever it is) is neither clear nor successful according to results so far and motivation seems to be sporadic at best ! Finally I see no benefit whatsoever to booing any of our own players let alone youngsters ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 It's worth noting that the other week at Burnley the team got a right mouthful from the travelling support as they trooped off at half time, 3 goals down. They came out and 'won' the second half 2-0. Sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 I agree with Matron, I have questioned Lalana but mainly in pointing out the unfair criticism of DMG. Both have been thrown in and up againsyt more experienced pros who know how to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 The fact that we have started to get comments like "Lallana is all over the place", "Lallana's lack of discipline makes the team suffer" and "Lallana aint that good, I've been disappointed" is a clear-cut signal to me that this place is loaded with PR-plants for the club, paving their way for his departure in January by trying to dismiss his contribution to the team, when he is clearly one of our most skillful, capable, and matching influencing youngsters and one of the few that will make the grade. I know which posters I think are the main suspects.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Considering it is very likely that Lallana will be off in January, and seeing as people have been criticising him of late, can I assume that there won't be any negative posts should he leave!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 I've got to say, I think that our fans at the moment are a disgrace. I'm not saying that fans don't have the right to boo their own players, but I do think that you've got to be a f*cking moron to do so *during a game*. I'm not saying that it's the only reason, but I really do think it's contributing to our appalling home form. It just does not help the players one iota. And if you don't want to take my word for it, how about Alan Hansen's: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7771014.stm I really think that if we'd had the kind of atmosphere back at the Dell, we'd have been relegated years ago. We witnessed some utter sh*te back then, but the fans frequently tried to lift the side. Remember the 3-1 Newcastle game, when we were appalling for sixty minutes, lucky to only be one down, part of the Archer's stood up and started chanting. Then some genius on the tannoy decides to tell the fans to sit down, so the whole of the Archer's stood up and joined in. We start playing better, and bang in three in three minutes at the end of the match. Yeah, sure we're in a tough situation right now, but we're tearing ourselves apart and making it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Ponty, surely we should be criticising the management not the youngsters, I watched Lallana in front of the Itchen chase around lie a madman at times so I will not accept this ridiculous campaign to undermine him. Frankly DMG needs backing as well. And there we have it. Chasing around like a madman. He doesn't have a free role, he is picked wide right and refuses to play there. Euell had a row with him on Sat, that was why Euell ended up inappropriately wide right in the first half. He was recently taken to one side by one of the senior coaches and told that he was wasting his ability and doing the team no good by chasing around all over the place. He was told to be more aware of dangerous positions, penetrative runs and the use of space. He hasn't taken a blind bit of notice. This idea of players having a free role is nonsense. The team are playing a very one dimensional, rigid formation, badly. In no small part down to the inability of Lallana to play in his defined role. It is the right side that is killing us and the system. McGoldrick and Lallana are not producing anything but cameos in areas that don't hurt the opposition. Letting young players know they are fireproof, whatever the manager thinks is not helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 I suspect they could both use a break from the firing line, it is afterall there first season as first team regulars. Normally we could ease them in and out around and experienced spine but that does not seem to be happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 The fact that we have started to get comments like "Lallana is all over the place", "Lallana's lack of discipline makes the team suffer" and "Lallana aint that good, I've been disappointed" is a clear-cut signal to me that this place is loaded with PR-plants for the club, paving their way for his departure in January by trying to dismiss his contribution to the team, when he is clearly one of our most skillful, capable, and matching influencing youngsters and one of the few that will make the grade. I know which posters I think are the main suspects.. I am probably the main instigator of this, because I'm sick and tired of watching the team struggle. It is the lack of a right side that makes us narrow and cumbersome in attack and vulnerable to counter attack. We are losing match after match and seem incapaple of scoring at home. If Lallana goes, I don't think he will, I will be sad because he could do so much better for the team and himself. The way he is playing is stopping him from achieving so much more for us. There is no end product at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 23 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Seems MLT echoes what you're saying MM... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3997391.It_s_not_fair_on_McGoldrick__says_Le_Tiss/ Perhaps some people should take note....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 Perhaps some people should take note....... And here's hoping our manager will be the first to take note!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 And here's hoping our manager will be the first to take note!!!!!!!!!! Quite!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 The fact that we have started to get comments like "Lallana is all over the place", "Lallana's lack of discipline makes the team suffer" and "Lallana aint that good, I've been disappointed" is a clear-cut signal to me that this place is loaded with PR-plants for the club, paving their way for his departure in January by trying to dismiss his contribution to the team, when he is clearly one of our most skillful, capable, and matching influencing youngsters and one of the few that will make the grade. I know which posters I think are the main suspects.. PR plants paving the way for his departure? F*****g hell Alpine, that's a stretch by anyone's imagination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 I think Lallana is a fantastic prospect and a very gifted footballer however over the last few weeks he has deserved some constructive criticism playing wide right he has been ineffective and ill disiciplined leaving us exposed down the right his corners Saturday were very poor and his final ball or shot on goal has been lacking he should be played in the hole as that is his best position but will he generate any goals ? whilst I agree we shoudnt be getting on the backs of young players at the game I think we can discuss it on here you have to agree he hasnt been at his best lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 23 December, 2008 Share Posted 23 December, 2008 reminiscent of MLT. ?:smt044 What exactly has he done that's been ANYTHING like the greatest player to ever pull on the stripes? He's been anonymous the past couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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