hutch Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 The rules to elect the Labour Party leader changed since Ed was in charge. He instigated the change I think following the Collins report in 2014. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/how-will-labour-leadership-election-work Fair doos. Maybe there is hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 One person has said they "don't have a problem" with it - not exactly overwhelming is it? All lefties must support the desecration of war memorials if it's against the Tories though, because one person said they did. So does that mean that all UKIP voters want to deport "every last muslim" out of the country like one Tweet I saw from a supporter of theirs during the debates? "Rabid lefties" is such a crass generalisation that really means nothing at all. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, carry on using it. Rabid lefties is a group of the left, not all lefties. Said that earlier in post 6180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I really cannot understand this. Cameron has experienced first hand what must surely be one of the most painful experiences anyone can ever go through, having and subsequently losing a disabled child. How someone that has been through that, and still allows the vicious callow attacks on disabled people in society is baffling. It is personally one of my biggest problems with the man. Please do elucidate. What vicious callow attacks? Who is making them? Give us some examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 But you have yourself said that they are all selfish ****s - there has been many a debate about it on this thread. Why are you allowed to stereotype, but not others? Is it stereotyping? When voters go to the polls, especially Conservative voters, do you honestly think they believe they're voting for the "best" the country can offer, for all people? Or are they saying "this government works for me and mine. I will vote for it". I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then it's selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Is it stereotyping? When voters go to the polls, especially Conservative voters, do you honestly think they believe they're voting for the "best" the country can offer, for all people? Or are they saying "this government works for me and mine. I will vote for it". I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then it's selfish. I think in the election last week it was 1, due to how inept the Labour Party were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 One person has said they "don't have a problem" with it - not exactly overwhelming is it? All lefties must support the desecration of war memorials if it's against the Tories though, because one person said they did. So does that mean that all UKIP voters want to deport "every last muslim" out of the country like one Tweet I saw from a supporter of theirs during the debates? "Rabid lefties" is such a crass generalisation that really means nothing at all. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, carry on using it. No one mentioned all lefties except you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 This I partly do not understand. Labour draws it's roots from the trade unions. When the conservative party remove backing from wealthy banking corporations and such then that would be fine. Also, Hypo, as a disabled person I just find some of yours and the electorate's views astonishing....ask a lot of disabled people, they will tell you the same. As a disabled person, what views of mine do you find astonishing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 (edited) Is it stereotyping? When voters go to the polls, especially Conservative voters, do you honestly think they believe they're voting for the "best" the country can offer, for all people? Or are they saying "this government works for me and mine. I will vote for it". I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then it's selfish. So you reckon the majority of voters don't think about what's best for themselves and the issues they care about when casting their vote? Interesting. Makes you wonder why ed bothered with populist policies at all if he was simply trying to appeal to the voters who only thought of what was best for the country. I've given this example before, but one reason I voted conservative at this election is because I thought they were better for my business. When my business does well I'm able to pay all of my staff a lot more (some of my staff earn more than me.) how is that selfish? Edited 13 May, 2015 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 More discrimination from the rabid left. Such a shame that they just cannot take that they lost an election. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/first-a-garden-centre-now-a-coffee-shop-haggerston-espresso-room-owner-applies-10-tory-tax-to-conservative-voting-drinkers-10244629.html So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I think in the election last week it was 1, due to how inept the Labour Party were. I think one of the main reasons was simply that many people didn't want to feel a little bit embarrassed when they saw ed on the world stage representing our country. It's shallow but it wouldn't surprise me if that was what a lot of people thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. Hahaha, genius!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I love this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Is it stereotyping? When voters go to the polls, especially Conservative voters, do you honestly think they believe they're voting for the "best" the country can offer, for all people? Or are they saying "this government works for me and mine. I will vote for it". I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then it's selfish. It's a public vote. It's a democracy. It may or may not be selfish but so what? If you vote for something you believe or want why is that selfish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 It's a public vote. It's a democracy. It may or may not be selfish but so what? If you vote for something you believe or want why is that selfish? In fact, voting by its very definition is selfish - as it's someone that 'you' want to vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torres Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Is it stereotyping? When voters go to the polls, especially Conservative voters, do you honestly think they believe they're voting for the "best" the country can offer, for all people? Or are they saying "this government works for me and mine. I will vote for it". I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then it's selfish. See, this is why Labour got trounced. All their oh-so-worthy supporters couldn't bring themselves to vote for what they wanted, as to do so would be selfish, and so they voted for what they thought other people might like, like UKIP. Nice one pap, you've cracked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 It's a public vote. It's a democracy. It may or may not be selfish but so what? If you vote for something you believe or want why is that selfish? I don't have an issue with describing Tory voters as selfish. I don't really have a problem with selfish people who can admit they are. That said, I do think that is a fundamental difference between voting intentions, especially above a certain income level. I haven't been out of work for over a decade now. I barely use public services, and truth be told, the Conservative government will probably put more money in my pocket than Labour would. And yet, I'd never vote Tory because I know that even though they'll look after the likes of me, they'll do a considerably worse job of helping the less fortunate. That's the real difference to me. Someone who votes against their own self-interest for the benefit of others wouldn't be considered selfish. Someone who says "I'm alright, Jack" would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 It's a public vote. It's a democracy. It may or may not be selfish but so what? If you vote for something you believe or want why is that selfish? I would say it is selfish if you are only thinking what's best for you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 In 2010 (I think I'm right in saying) in every round of voting of the Parliamentary Party, David won. In every round of voting of the Party members, David won. In every round of voting by Union members, Ed won. It's just disappointing that, with the current system, unless another chameleon like Blair manages to slip through their net, they will never be electable. Which is why they changed the system. I voted for David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I don't have an issue with describing Tory voters as selfish. I don't really have a problem with selfish people who can admit they are. That said, I do think that is a fundamental difference between voting intentions, especially above a certain income level. I haven't been out of work for over a decade now. I barely use public services, and truth be told, the Conservative government will probably put more money in my pocket than Labour would. And yet, I'd never vote Tory because I know that even though they'll look after the likes of me, they'll do a considerably worse job of helping the less fortunate. That's the real difference to me. Someone who votes against their own self-interest for the benefit of others wouldn't be considered selfish. Someone who says "I'm alright, Jack" would be. Fark me. It was bad enough finding out that you're a product of the flower estate. Now this. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm a nice bloke, I might start wondering if you are me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I think one of the main reasons was simply that many people didn't want to feel a little bit embarrassed when they saw ed on the world stage representing our country. It's shallow but it wouldn't surprise me if that was what a lot of people thought. An awful lot of women, classic floating voters, according to the women where I & my wife work, couldn't vote for him based on his looks and voice. Shallow perhaps but I do understand it. I said at the time that they'd picked the wrong brother and it would cost them the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Fark me. It was bad enough finding out that you're a product of the flower estate. Now this. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm a nice bloke, I might start wondering if you are me. You're not me. When I decide to be judgemental on an Internet forum, I do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 May, 2015 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2015 So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I don't have an issue with describing Tory voters as selfish. I don't really have a problem with selfish people who can admit they are. That said, I do think that is a fundamental difference between voting intentions, especially above a certain income level. I haven't been out of work for over a decade now. I barely use public services, and truth be told, the Conservative government will probably put more money in my pocket than Labour would. And yet, I'd never vote Tory because I know that even though they'll look after the likes of me, they'll do a considerably worse job of helping the less fortunate. That's the real difference to me. Someone who votes against their own self-interest for the benefit of others wouldn't be considered selfish. Someone who says "I'm alright, Jack" would be. Sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. Very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I don't have an issue with describing Tory voters as selfish. I don't really have a problem with selfish people who can admit they are. That said, I do think that is a fundamental difference between voting intentions, especially above a certain income level. I haven't been out of work for over a decade now. I barely use public services, and truth be told, the Conservative government will probably put more money in my pocket than Labour would. And yet, I'd never vote Tory because I know that even though they'll look after the likes of me, they'll do a considerably worse job of helping the less fortunate. That's the real difference to me. Someone who votes against their own self-interest for the benefit of others wouldn't be considered selfish. Someone who says "I'm alright, Jack" would be. Considering my work tends to pick up more in times of econmic struggle or recessions I really should have voted Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I don't have an issue with describing Tory voters as selfish. I don't really have a problem with selfish people who can admit they are. That said, I do think that is a fundamental difference between voting intentions, especially above a certain income level. I haven't been out of work for over a decade now. I barely use public services, and truth be told, the Conservative government will probably put more money in my pocket than Labour would. And yet, I'd never vote Tory because I know that even though they'll look after the likes of me, they'll do a considerably worse job of helping the less fortunate. That's the real difference to me. Someone who votes against their own self-interest for the benefit of others wouldn't be considered selfish. Someone who says "I'm alright, Jack" would be. It's rather narrow minded to categorise people based purely on their voting habits. For instance, I know of a few, mainly old timers, who vote Tory and are comfortably off, yet give up their free time to helping others less fortunate, with travel (using their own cars and getting nothing for it) gardening for those whose mobility is impaired and give free time working in, or fundraising for, charity shops. To suggest they are selfish doesn't really hold much water when their efforts to improve the community and the lives of others, is taken into account. Strangely enough, the smug glow of moral superiority is not solely the preserve of left leaning Labour voters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Considering my work tends to pick up more in times of econmic struggle or recessions I really should have voted Labour. You haven't been in work long enough to make that determination. What is it, seven/eight years? You're barely out of short trousers, and obviously don't remember the dot com bubble going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 (edited) Edited 13 May, 2015 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 You haven't been in work long enough to make that determination. What is it, seven/eight years? You're barely out of short trousers, and obviously don't remember the dot com bubble going. I'm not talking industry Pap, I'm talking the contractor market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 [video=youtube;7FAI_-woNh4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. The critical thing to remember is none of that has actually happened. Lovely little flight of fancy though. What actually has happened is on this forum is Jeff comparing that cafe blackboard to racial discrimination. I'm still waiting for some equivalent joke aimed at "lefties" that is going to prompt an equivalent response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I'm not talking industry Pap, I'm talking the contractor market. Oh, aye - I've talked about the headcount trick before. However, when the shít hits the fan, those best placed are the ones with tons of experience. The employers get to pick and choose, and they place a higher priority on tech staff than they do on softer roles. Because anyone can do BA, right? I know that's not true, but I've seen enough firms rocking along without them to know people believe it. Put it this way. I've survived a lot of management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 The critical thing to remember is none of that has actually happened. Lovely little flight of fancy though. What actually has happened is on this forum is Jeff comparing that cafe blackboard to racial discrimination. I'm still waiting for some equivalent joke aimed at "lefties" that is going to prompt an equivalent response. Discrimination is discrimination, end of. It's a shame that you feel that some people can be discriminated against more. Is there a hierarchy, or is this based on your (questionable) moral compass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 So what would happen if a local coffee shop had displayed a blackboard asking people to admit to voting labour so they could pay 20% more to subsidise other people's coffee and to pay for the extra business costs associated with new regulations and taxes? The sign would be vandalised and 'Tory Scum' scrawled on the door. The local student Union would announce an immediate boycott and demonstration. Customers would be given leaflets by scruffy looking middle class students who in-between yelling abuse at customers and staff organise a smear campaign on social media using the latest top of the range I-pads and i-phones . Martin Freeman announces that he will not use the coffee shop again before it emerges he has shares in Costa and has been drinking in Starbucks for years. The coffee shop eventually closes and two hard working and decent Poles, a Latvian and a Romanian lose their jobs. Do you run all these completely fictitious scenarios in your head just to wind yourself up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Oh, aye - I've talked about the headcount trick before. However, when the shít hits the fan, those best placed are the ones with tons of experience. The employers get to pick and choose, and they place a higher priority on tech staff than they do on softer roles. Because anyone can do BA, right? I know that's not true, but I've seen enough firms rocking along without them to know people believe it. Put it this way. I've survived a lot of management. I think it all depends on the size of companies - smaller firms will sometimes combine the roles of BA and Developer in times of trouble, but as someone who's only ever worked for large companies BA resource is kept around - it's more that they don't employ more permanent staff, creating the need for 3 month contractors etc. But anyway, getting away from my (rather facetious I will admit) point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Do you run all these completely fictitious scenarios in your head just to wind yourself up? Obviously there is rampant hyperbole in there, but it is rather funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Do you run all these completely fictitious scenarios in your head just to wind yourself up? Arf. You can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Arf. You can talk. At least you don't discriminate Pap!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Do you run all these completely fictitious scenarios in your head just to wind yourself up? It was a joke verbal. I know you find them difficult to comprehend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 At least you don't discriminate Pap!! I do, just not exclusively on left or right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Fark me. It was bad enough finding out that you're a product of the flower estate. Plenty of us about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 At least you don't discriminate Pap!! I can't keep up with the who's on whose side with this thread. More cut throat than real politics! People I'd like to put in a small room together, and observe the fall out from behind a one way mirror: Pap and Verbal CB Fry and Unbelievable Jeff Hypo and Hockey Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Plenty of us about. Didn't know you were. I know solentstars is, as was Dr Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Plenty of us about. Flower Estate was way rougher than Coxford... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I can't keep up with the who's on whose side with this thread. More cut throat than real politics! People I'd like to put in a small room together, and observe the fall out from behind a one way mirror: Pap and Verbal CB Fry and Unbelievable Jeff Hypo and Hockey Saint Impossible. Verbal-mort (he who must not be named) will call the authorities as soon as I refer to him by his moniker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 I can't keep up with the who's on whose side with this thread. More cut throat than real politics! People I'd like to put in a small room together, and observe the fall out from behind a one way mirror: Pap and Verbal CB Fry and Unbelievable Jeff Hypo and Hockey Saint Treat each post on its own merits - it's not a case of 'sides'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Impossible. Verbal-mort (he who must not be named) will call the authorities as soon as I refer to him by his moniker! Strange that one, who is so up themselves that having their name said on a forum is a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Impossible. Verbal-mort (he who must not be named) will call the authorities as soon as I refer to him by his moniker! The room will be locked. Only I will have the key. There are no 'authorities'. Rules are: no physical contact. No memes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 May, 2015 Share Posted 13 May, 2015 Didn't know you were. I know solentstars is, as was Dr Who? Living on the Flower estate and going to KES, what a way to grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now