MP Wreath expense claim shocker

[CB Fry]

http://m.thestar.co.uk/news/local/rotherham-mp-sarah-champion-to-repay-expenses-after-claiming-17-cost-of-poppy-wreath-1-7156663

 

My, my. If you want to see manufactured, shrill, full-on frothing mouth screaming outrage, get onto twitter and search Sarah Champion. Pretty astonishing stuff, to be honest.

 

As inconsequential non stories go, it's a cracker.

 

Any swivel eyed fury merchants feel like chipping on on this "disgrace" in the lounge, fill yer boots.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It's pretty low though isn't it? Expecting the taxpayer to fund a £17 wreath .

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Who gives a ****? Sick of this expenses ****, some MP's work massive hours for lowish pay, and don't have the "extra-curricular" incomes that others do.

 

I think expenses should be means tested myself.

[suewhistle]

Any swivel eyed fury merchants feel like chipping on on this "disgrace" in the lounge, fill yer boots.

 

Go on then, you seem eminently qualified.

[hypochondriac]

Who gives a ****? Sick of this expenses ****, some MP's work massive hours for lowish pay, and don't have the "extra-curricular" incomes that others do.

 

I think expenses should be means tested myself.

 

They should all be given so much a year to spend in what they like and that should be it.

[CB Fry]

It's pretty low though isn't it? Expecting the taxpayer to fund a £17 wreath .

Not really.

 

The reports don't specify it but I would suggest it wasn't for her own front room and was used at a civic service where she would be representing the people of Rotherham, and not herself.

 

I don't watch the cenotaph service every year and think "oh look at all those dignitaries who have popped off down the wreath shop and bought their own wreath with their own money, good on them".

[Unbelievable Jeff]

They should all be given so much a year to spend in what they like and that should be it.

 

Yep, that makes sense to me.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not really.

 

The reports don't specify it but I would suggest it wasn't for her own front room and was used at a civic service where she would be representing the people of Rotherham, and not herself.

.

 

The BBC are reporting that IPSA have ruled this breaks expenses policy, and are demanding repayment. So it doesn't really matter what you think as the independent watchdog states she's in the wrong.

[bridge too far]

The BBC are reporting that IPSA have ruled this breaks expenses policy, and are demanding repayment. So it doesn't really matter what you think as the independent watchdog states she's in the wrong.

 

Although they initially sanctioned it.

[CB Fry]

The BBC are reporting that IPSA have ruled this breaks expenses policy, and are demanding repayment. So it doesn't really matter what you think as the independent watchdog states she's in the wrong.

They've hardly needed to demand anything, she's repaying it. A mistake, simple. I'm not saying it isn't and neither is she.

 

Hiwever, that rule is knee jerk don't-upset-the-Daily-Mail stuff. Straight out of their "let's watch every single second of BBC broadcast output from October 23rd onwards to find someone, anyone, anywhere not wearing a poppy" routine.

 

Anyway, It's the people on twitter calling Sarah Champion "scum" for this I am fascinated by. Go them.

[Batman]

I think MPs should be paid a great deal more than they are

[Patrick Bateman]

I think MPs should be paid a great deal more than they are

 

Couldn't agree more!

[Batman]

Couldn't agree more!

 

Trouble is. Would be political suicide to force it through. "But the nurses don't get a pay rise" and other such skwinnying we get about absolutely everything now

[Whitey Grandad]

I think MPs should be paid a great deal more than they are

 

No need, there are plenty of applicants.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I like that there are a couple of UKIPpers that seem v angry bout this at the top of my twitter search at least. Yet, weren't so about Nigel "UKIP MEPs won't employ wives" Farage.

 

Suzanne Evans ‏@SuzanneEvans1 3h3 hours ago

Labour MP Sarah Champion claims to be different? Fact she claimed a £17 poppy wreath on expenses suggests not

[Jonnyboy]

They should get the London average plus expenses and overtime. Mind you you only had to look at that undercover sting that caught out Rifkind, they barely work a four day week as it is.

[hutch]

They should all be given so much a year to spend in what they like and that should be it.

They could call it a "salary".

[pap]

Is the point of this thread to get upset about other people, who in turn, are getting upset about a 17 quid expenses bill?

[trousers]

Is the point of this thread to get upset about other people, who in turn, are getting upset about a 17 quid expenses bill?

 

No, that's the raison d'etre of the Saintsweb forum, not just this thread.

 

(she'd have been fair game in soshul meeja land if she'd been a Tory though )

Edited 16 March, 2015 by trousers

[pap]

No, that's the raison d'etre of the Saintsweb forum, not just this thread.

 

(she'd have been fair game in soshul meeja land if she'd been a Tory though )

 

Ah, super. So not only are we considering current Twitter trends, we're considering hypothetical ones too?

 

I like your implicit description of social media as some kind of haven for the left though. I'll tell all those interminably tiresome UKIP c**ts that they're doing it wrong*

 

*Tories aren't actually a problem. Very few of those will speak out openly in support of Conservative policy.

[sadoldgit]

I think MPs should be paid a great deal more than they are

 

I would agree if they spent more time in the Commons. You only see a full house when they are discussing their own pay. Also they are Civil Servants and paid out of the public purse. The rest of us have had a pay freeze for years and have to do much more for less. Frankly I don't see why they deserve more. Many have other incomes and or use their positions to get cash. They hardly live on the breadline and no one forces them to become MPs.

[pap]

I would agree if they spent more time in the Commons. You only see a full house when they are discussing their own pay. Also they are Civil Servants and paid out of the public purse. The rest of us have had a pay freeze for years and have to do much more for less. Frankly I don't see why they deserve more. Many have other incomes and or use their positions to get cash. They hardly live on the breadline and no one forces them to become MPs.

 

Like Grant Shapps, you mean?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31901533

 

Not actually that arsed, but I'd say his extra job got him more than seventeen quid.

[sadoldgit]

The basic salary for an MP is £67,070. They also get expenses to cover running an office and employing staff, somewhere to live in London and their constituency and travel too and from their constituency. Not too shabby in my book.

[sadoldgit]

Like Grant Shapps, you mean?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31901533

 

Not actually that arsed, but I'd say his extra job got him more than seventeen quid.

 

Indeed, and we have recently heard that Jack Straw and another have been pimping themselves out for money.

[Saintandy666]

Agree that we want our MPs to be paid well and comfortable. It's a bloody difficult job, with more responsibility than most jobs. What we don't want is for it to be restricted to a few richer individuals willing to work themselves into the ground with exceptionally long commutes and work hours. £67k is not a ridiculous amount for what they do. I'm in full support of proper expenses and probably a wage rise too, though I get that that is difficult in the current circumstances.

 

NB: I know that lots of people work long hours with a long commute for less, but that doesn't mean that is a healthy way to live and we need our executives to be healthy.

[Batman]

The basic salary for an MP is £67,070. They also get expenses to cover running an office and employing staff, somewhere to live in London and their constituency and travel too and from their constituency. Not too shabby in my book.

 

its not good enough to get decent people to do the job

You can get more for doing far more faceless jobs in the public sector ffs

[moonraker]

Whether you like it or not the current pay for MP’s is to low. Once upon a time 99% of MP’s had a private income, either from their other job, family or inheritance and investments. Parliaments hours were scheduled to suit the legal profession. Those days are long gone but todays MP’s have to put up with working conditions that most of us would run a mile from; unscheduled late working, the majority of their time for the majority away from family, constituents who expect them to be 24/7/365 at their beck and call, constant sniping by the media, their colleagues in opposition and wannabee politicians representing narrow interest groups.

Many MP’s could and a good proportion do earn far more from other employment. And here in lies the problem most MP’s would if not MP’s be commanding a higher salary than an MP gets without most of the crap that comes with it. So what we get are to many politicians who want the power and kudos of being an MP but are not prepared to sacrifice the income to which they are accustomed or to which they aspire.

On the point of presence in HP this is a red hearing an MP’s first duty is to their constituents. The commons is an over used meeting chamber where they make to many unnecessary laws and facilitate inane debates that are judged on the quality of insult and comedy not reasoned and informed debating. The best work of MP’s goes on in committee, constituency surgeries and getting out and about talking to people.

There are many very talented (and honest) people who might otherwise become MP’s if it were not for the lack of pay. If we paid our politicians properly I really believe our politics would improve both in conduct and in outcomes.

[aintforever]

MP's shouldn't be motivated by greed, their pay is more than good enough IMO.

[sadoldgit]

its not good enough to get decent people to do the job

You can get more for doing far more faceless jobs in the public sector ffs

 

Really FFS? How many people do you know earning over £70,000? I know lots of "decent" people who would love to earn that kind of money. We are talking about MPs here, not Cabinet Ministers. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be an MP. FFS.

[buctootim]

They should get paid around the same as a GP or other similar professional - say £100,000pa, but with all the expenses not related directly to the job stripped out. No second jobs or consultancy. A free apartment near Westminster should be provided. I'd also reduce their numbers to about 350 from 650 and make Remberance day wreaths a claimable expense.

Edited 16 March, 2015 by buctootim

[sadoldgit]

Whether you like it or not the current pay for MP’s is to low. Once upon a time 99% of MP’s had a private income, either from their other job, family or inheritance and investments. Parliaments hours were scheduled to suit the legal profession. Those days are long gone but todays MP’s have to put up with working conditions that most of us would run a mile from; unscheduled late working, the majority of their time for the majority away from family, constituents who expect them to be 24/7/365 at their beck and call, constant sniping by the media, their colleagues in opposition and wannabee politicians representing narrow interest groups.

Many MP’s could and a good proportion do earn far more from other employment. And here in lies the problem most MP’s would if not MP’s be commanding a higher salary than an MP gets without most of the crap that comes with it. So what we get are to many politicians who want the power and kudos of being an MP but are not prepared to sacrifice the income to which they are accustomed or to which they aspire.

On the point of presence in HP this is a red hearing an MP’s first duty is to their constituents. The commons is an over used meeting chamber where they make to many unnecessary laws and facilitate inane debates that are judged on the quality of insult and comedy not reasoned and informed debating. The best work of MP’s goes on in committee, constituency surgeries and getting out and about talking to people.

There are many very talented (and honest) people who might otherwise become MP’s if it were not for the lack of pay. If we paid our politicians properly I really believe our politics would improve both in conduct and in outcomes.

 

You really believe that it we paid them more there would be no more expenses rip offs, no more "secondary" jobs, no more dodgy consultancy fess etc etc? How much would you have to pay people like Richard Branson into the Commons? Aint gonna happen. The same people will seek out MPs jobs only we will be paying them more, that is all.

 

Also I agree that they don't need to be in the Commons all of the time, but it is interesting to see how few are there when there are important debates and how many are then when they are discussing their salary.

 

I work in the public sector. I see people working dreadfully long hours with no support day after day for £25k a year. None of us get a vote about our wages and most of us haven't had a pay rise for years. These are the real heroes. I am sorry but I don't by your MPs are hard done by stance.

[moonraker]

You really believe that it we paid them more there would be no more expenses rip offs, no more "secondary" jobs, no more dodgy consultancy fess etc etc? How much would you have to pay people like Richard Branson into the Commons? Aint gonna happen. The same people will seek out MPs jobs only we will be paying them more, that is all.

 

Also I agree that they don't need to be in the Commons all of the time, but it is interesting to see how few are there when there are important debates and how many are then when they are discussing their salary.

 

I work in the public sector. I see people working dreadfully long hours with no support day after day for £25k a year. None of us get a vote about our wages and most of us haven't had a pay rise for years. These are the real heroes. I am sorry but I don't by your MPs are hard done by stance.

 

I believe that if we paid a more realistic salary for the job they do we would get a better class of MP. Richard Branson is irrelevant. The sort of salary I am talking about is what an experienced private sector professional would expect, the doctor analogy above works for me.

My Wife one son, one daughter and brother work in the Public Sector, I did for 20 years. I only partly recognise your comments and it very much depends on which part of the public sector you are alluding to, Health and Educational staff are in my opinion undervalued especially if you are not a doctor or teacher. But it is undeniable there are many areas in the public sector that are not staffed by heroes.

Hard done by is not a term I would use, we get the politicians we deserve not because we vote for them but because we don’t value them.

[sadoldgit]

Heroes might be too strong a word, but to carry on when you pay is frozen year after year but you can see friends in the City taken home more in bonuses than you do in a year makes it tough to keep the commitment going day in day out.

 

If being an MP is such a touch and time consuming job, how come some of them find time for other jobs?

 

I am sorry but I don't agree that the standard of MP would improve if the salary went up. I think there are probably a lot more reasons than just salary while more decent people (as Batman says) don't want stand. Having to toe the Party line, having to reapply for your job every 4 or 5 years, having to deal with constituents etc. It takes a certain type of person to want to become an MP and I don't see any proper high flyers wanting to do it whatever the salary.

 

Why don't we value our politicians? Because many of them lie, put themselves first, use their position for their own personal gain, suck up to the Whips so that they can get better jobs rather than vote with their conscience, are only widely visible when they want us to vote for them, are out of touch with "ordinary" people, are too busy slagging off the opposition or in point scoring to actually deal with issues sensibly. I could go on. I don't believe paying them more money would make any difference sadly.

[Whitey Grandad]

Heroes might be too strong a word, but to carry on when you pay is frozen year after year but you can see friends in the City taken home more in bonuses than you do in a year makes it tough to keep the commitment going day in day out.

 

If being an MP is such a touch and time consuming job, how come some of them find time for other jobs?

 

I am sorry but I don't agree that the standard of MP would improve if the salary went up. I think there are probably a lot more reasons than just salary while more decent people (as Batman says) don't want stand. Having to toe the Party line, having to reapply for your job every 4 or 5 years, having to deal with constituents etc. It takes a certain type of person to want to become an MP and I don't see any proper high flyers wanting to do it whatever the salary.

 

Why don't we value our politicians? Because many of them lie, put themselves first, use their position for their own personal gain, suck up to the Whips so that they can get better jobs rather than vote with their conscience, are only widely visible when they want us to vote for them, are out of touch with "ordinary" people, are too busy slagging off the opposition or in point scoring to actually deal with issues sensibly. I could go on. I don't believe paying them more money would make any difference sadly.

 

I agree with you. As someone once said, our politicians are the best that money can buy.

[Batman]

Really FFS? How many people do you know earning over £70,000? I know lots of "decent" people who would love to earn that kind of money. We are talking about MPs here, not Cabinet Ministers. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be an MP. FFS.

 

Jesus, with some time at sea I earned over £50k last tax year. An MP getting a few quid a month more for doing that job

 

Poke it

[moonraker]

Heroes might be too strong a word, but to carry on when you pay is frozen year after year but you can see friends in the City taken home more in bonuses than you do in a year makes it tough to keep the commitment going day in day out.

 

If being an MP is such a touch and time consuming job, how come some of them find time for other jobs?

 

I am sorry but I don't agree that the standard of MP would improve if the salary went up. I think there are probably a lot more reasons than just salary while more decent people (as Batman says) don't want stand. Having to toe the Party line, having to reapply for your job every 4 or 5 years, having to deal with constituents etc. It takes a certain type of person to want to become an MP and I don't see any proper high flyers wanting to do it whatever the salary.

 

Why don't we value our politicians? Because many of them lie, put themselves first, use their position for their own personal gain, suck up to the Whips so that they can get better jobs rather than vote with their conscience, are only widely visible when they want us to vote for them, are out of touch with "ordinary" people, are too busy slagging off the opposition or in point scoring to actually deal with issues sensibly. I could go on. I don't believe paying them more money would make any difference sadly.

 

I do agree with much you say, the rise and rise of the party line an the whips office has a lot to answer for and the deceitfulness and double standards of a far to big minority needs addressing. I would cut the commons to 400 with only 2/3 from political parties the rest must be independent. Far to much policy is based on party dogma and vested interests, not what is best for the country at large.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Really FFS? How many people do you know earning over £70,000? I know lots of "decent" people who would love to earn that kind of money. We are talking about MPs here, not Cabinet Ministers. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be an MP. FFS.

 

£70k isn't a lot, certainly not London way anyway.

[TheCholulaKid]

£70k isn't a lot, certainly not London way anyway.

 

Er...it's pretty decent. Chuck in free accommodation/expenses etc and it's more than decent.

[Gemmel]

Er...it's pretty decent. Chuck in free accommodation/expenses etc and it's more than decent.

 

But doesn't come close to what they could earn in the commercial world.

[Whitey Grandad]

But doesn't come close to what they could earn in the commercial world.

 

And why is that relevant? We're not talking about a normal job market.

[Gemmel]

And why is that relevant? We're not talking about a normal job market.

 

Because we should want the very best of the best doing the job.

[Whitey Grandad]

Because we should want the very best of the best doing the job.

 

Paying lots of money doesn't guarantee that, far from it.

[Whitey Grandad]

They get a lot of money on top of their salary:

 

http://rt.com/uk/187252-mps-claim-record-expenses/

[buctootim]

They get a lot of money on top of their salary:

 

http://rt.com/uk/187252-mps-claim-record-expenses/

 

Not really. The vast majority of that is rent and salaries for their constituency offices. The rest - £17,000 per MP is for London accommodation and travel to constituencies. Seems reasonable to me.

[Batman]

Er...it's pretty decent. Chuck in free accommodation/expenses etc and it's more than decent.

 

Decent isn't enough. Not for the job they do

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Decent isn't enough. Not for the job they do

 

Agreed.

[Jonnyboy]

Because we should want the very best of the best doing the job.

 

Like Fred the Shred?

[sadoldgit]

Jesus, with some time at sea I earned over £50k last tax year. An MP getting a few quid a month more for doing that job

 

Poke it

 

Well good for you. I think you will find that a lot of us would love to earn £50k. My wife is a senior manager in the CPS with 30 years service and earns £35k with no perks.

 

The principle is the same isn't it? The public sector pays for less than the private sector. Surely you want "decent people" in public sectors jobs across the board? If so why not pay them all better money and not just feckin MPs.

 

£50k for sitting around in a tin can all day, no wonder you have a warped view of the world. I get £25k for working 10 hours a day managing staff who are totally demotivated, underpaid and overworked.

 

Poke it.

[sadoldgit]

Decent isn't enough. Not for the job they do

 

You really need to get out more, do you know what the average wage is? As I have said before, if MPs are so hard worked, how come so many of them find time for second jobs?

[Jonnyboy]

Well good for you. I think you will find that a lot of us would love to earn £50k. My wife is a senior manager in the CPS with 30 years service and earns £35k with no perks.

 

The principle is the same isn't it? The public sector pays for less than the private sector. Surely you want "decent people" in public sectors jobs across the board? If so why not pay them all better money and not just feckin MPs.

 

£50k for sitting around in a tin can all day, no wonder you have a warped view of the world. I get £25k for working 10 hours a day managing staff who are totally demotivated, underpaid and overworked.

 

Poke it.

 

*claps*