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Forster and Bertrand in the England Squad

Mattio

By Mattio,
in The Saints

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
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Milner needs to come off but Lallana is looking excellent, and rose very good in both games

 

Think bertrand is marginally the better player but Rose probably fits england better with arguably 2-3 other spurs players in the team.

 

Barkley growing in stature, sturridge too greedy

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SNSUN

SNSUN

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You think no one will notice? Assume they have Pearson lined up

 

Of course not but beats a boring football-less day when the media have nothing better to talk about.

 

Shane Long injured for Ireland apparently. :-(

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whelk

whelk

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Of course not but beats a boring football-less day when the media have nothing better to talk about.

 

Shane Long injured for Ireland apparently. :-(

 

Yeah although TBH not too controversial. Bet he is glad he is out of it

 

How bad is Long?

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Batman

Batman

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Too many player changes yet again during a game, how can there be any fluidity!.

If we had started with the Germany lineup from the start we would be romping this.

 

Roy attempting to keep all the managers happy.

 

he'll probably go on about rooney or something

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whelk

whelk

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Good result for Holland, well done Danny Blind......I'm thinking the bigger picture here with regard to Mr Koeman not being wanted if they start to do well again ;)

 

Yep was thinking same thing. Everything needs to be seen through Saints perspective

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Chalkboy

Chalkboy

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Back down to earth with a bump. Although the Germany result was great, we seem to have overlooked that we conceded 3 goals (one wrongly disallowed) against them, and another 2 today (should have had a pen, as well) against an average Dutch side.

Hard to get excited when you know Wayne and Jack Wilshere will be straight back in probably at the expense of more deserving players.

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Chalkboy

Chalkboy

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Nothing wrong with wilshere when fit to be fair, especially if it means milner gets the boot

 

I agree, I'd have him over Milner but if he's hardly kicked a ball all season he won't have been picked on form, plus can he be trusted to not get crocked again with those ankles? Can't see Hodgson dropping Milner anyway, unfortunately.

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benjii

benjii

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So if I had to pick the 23 now I would go with:

 

Hart

Forster

Butland/Heaton (depending on fitness)

 

Clyne

Walker

Bertrand

Shaw / Rose (if Shaw not fully fit)

 

Smalling

Cahil

Stones

 

Dier

Carrick

Henderson

Wilshire (the Ox if he's not fit)

Lallana

Alli

Sterling

Barkley

 

Rooney

Welbeck

Kane

Vardy

Carroll

 

I wouldn't bother with Milner, Delph or Sturridge. Sturridge doesn't have the right temperament and if we're taking a third or fourth choice striker to come off the bench then sod it, let's take Carroll in case we want to go direct.

 

If Carrick is too out-there then Shelvey instead.

 

No point taking a fourth centre back either when: i) it won't be very good and ii) Dier or Bertrand could play there if need-be.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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So if I had to pick the 23 now I would go with:

 

If Carrick is too out-there then Shelvey instead.

 

 

You'd take Shelvey over Drinkwater?

 

I'd like to see the team vs Germany with Drinkwater instead of Henderson. Ideally would make a couple of other changes too (Bertrand for Rose, Barkley or Vardy for Lallana) but wouldn't be too bothered if they weren't implemented.

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benjii

benjii

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You'd take Shelvey over Drinkwater?

 

I'd like to see the team vs Germany with Drinkwater instead of Henderson. Ideally would make a couple of other changes too (Bertrand for Rose, Barkley or Vardy for Lallana) but wouldn't be too bothered if they weren't implemented.

 

Yes. Drinkwater does a certain job but I think his technique is lacking for international level. First touch and passing not good enough. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Shelvey is going to be an international star but he does offer more in terms of passing ability from what I've seen of the two.

 

I'm not a massive Henderson fan but if we want to play high-tempo, like against Germany, then he is useful - he covers a lot of ground (despite his suspicious gait).

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Christ imagine having Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Welbeck, Walcott, Lallana, Sterling and Barkley as your attacking options in the premier league.

 

Wellbeck, Lallana, Walcott all proven to be poor at international level. The rest will prove to be poor at international level, it's just a matter of time and tournaments. Sturridge can barely string fives games in a row.

 

Kane can be as good as Shearer was, that's about it. And everyone was fed up with him by Euro 2000 and everyone soon got fed up with Michael Owen and so on and so on.

 

But Ross Barkley is the next Messi and definitely not the next John Barnes/Steve McManaman/Trevor Sinclair/etc/etc.

Edited by CB Fry
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Mr Biscuits

Mr Biscuits

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Rumoured that Roy is considering asking Terry to come back for the Euros

 

Oh yeah, let's just think about that for a bit!!!

 

Wouldn't surprise me for one moment with hodgson.

 

And @CB Fry, previous experience shows this to be true because we've had managers without the balls to drop players who didn't deserve to wear the shirt. Perhaps one day that will change. Yet again I'm left thinking of the England rugby squad as an example - you're in on merit alone, no one is guaranteed a spot. This translates to a squad of players giving it all they have on the pitch because they are committed to the cause and know that lack of effort will result in non-selection.

This strategy is painfully, obviously absent with the England football team and the results speak for themselves.

Edited by Mr Biscuits
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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
So if I had to pick the 23 now I would go with:

 

Hart

Forster

Butland/Heaton (depending on fitness)

 

Clyne

Walker

Bertrand

Shaw / Rose (if Shaw not fully fit)

 

Smalling

Cahil

Stones

 

Dier

Carrick

Henderson

Wilshire (the Ox if he's not fit)

Lallana

Alli

Sterling

Barkley

 

Rooney

Welbeck

Kane

Vardy

Carroll

 

I wouldn't bother with Milner, Delph or Sturridge. Sturridge doesn't have the right temperament and if we're taking a third or fourth choice striker to come off the bench then sod it, let's take Carroll in case we want to go direct.

 

If Carrick is too out-there then Shelvey instead.

 

No point taking a fourth centre back either when: i) it won't be very good and ii) Dier or Bertrand could play there if need-be.

 

 

Pretty much agree, though Id take drinkwater over Carrick and Sturridge (agree regarding his temperament, good player but completely selfish) over carroll.

 

I also think that realistically rose gets the nod over bertrand, mainly because of the number of spurs players likely to make the first 11, though bertrand will have to go, he is the better LB imo and of course can play as an emergency CB. Id love Shaw to be there but he has had a big injury, and struggled to fitness before

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted (edited)
Wouldn't surprise me for one moment with hodgson.

 

And @CB Fry, previous experience shows this to be true because we've had managers without the balls to drop players who didn't deserve to wear the shirt. Perhaps one day that will change. Yet again I'm left thinking of the England rugby squad as an example - you're in on merit alone, no one is guaranteed a spot. This translates to a squad of players giving it all they have on the pitch because they are committed to the cause and know that lack of effort will result in non-selection.

This strategy is painfully, obviously absent with the England football team and the results speak for themselves.

 

Nah. English players just not that good full stop.

 

It won't be long before its Dele Ali is being slagged off and why do we keep picking the same old names. The current "why don't we pick X" just becomes the future "why do we keep picking them?"

 

The England Euro 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006 squads are all better than what we'll be sending to France. And those squads weren't that good.

 

The 2016 squad is better than the last couple of tournaments but that's because we have some marginally better players. I don't subscribe to some notion that the management are refusing to pick a load of English wonder-players because they "haven't got the balls" to drop people. The alternatives have really just not been there.

 

Everyone likes to pile in and complain about Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Rio and John Terry as was and Rooney now and so on but let's see how Dele Alli''s career pans out and let's see how he's judged when he's 29. I notice already some moaning about Wilshire who at all of 24 is veering towards the "why do we persist with him" camp for some. Brilliant.

 

Anyway we've got some better players in this crop and they've been picked. And theyve been picked by, err, exactly the same manager as we've had for the last two tournaments.

Edited by CB Fry
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Mr Biscuits

Mr Biscuits

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My argument for managers having the balls to drop players is firmly based in the 'if X doesn't get a chance how can he possibly prove he is good enough' camp.

 

You say there were no real alternatives, I say how can you tell? No one else ever got the chance. Club form does not necessarily translate into International form (as we have seen far, far too often).

 

I'm not saying that there has ever been some sort of wonder kid out there who would have won everything for us had he only been given the chance, but I do believe that the abject failure of successive England teams and managers stems directly from the insistence on picking the same players who have failed again and again to achieve anything in an England shirt. Faced with this situation I would rather take risks and try different players rather than insist on picking players who have spent most of the season on the bench (for example)

 

Also, the age argument doesn't hold up as far as I'm concerned - if you are good enough you are old enough. And that applies to someone in their 30's just as much as it does to taking along an 18 year old. What matters is the 90 minute shift they put in on the pitch.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
My argument for managers having the balls to drop players is firmly based in the 'if X doesn't get a chance how can he possibly prove he is good enough' camp.

 

You say there were no real alternatives, I say how can you tell? No one else ever got the chance. Club form does not necessarily translate into International form (as we have seen far, far too often).

 

I'm not saying that there has ever been some sort of wonder kid out there who would have won everything for us had he only been given the chance, but I do believe that the abject failure of successive England teams and managers stems directly from the insistence on picking the same players who have failed again and again to achieve anything in an England shirt. Faced with this situation I would rather take risks and try different players rather than insist on picking players who have spent most of the season on the bench (for example)

 

Also, the age argument doesn't hold up as far as I'm concerned - if you are good enough you are old enough. And that applies to someone in their 30's just as much as it does to taking along an 18 year old. What matters is the 90 minute shift they put in on the pitch.

 

Sorry, just reads like a load of vague platitudes to me.

 

I've not made any age arguments apart from to suggest the "why don't you play xxx" tends to be about young players.

 

Being that you've no opened it to all players of any age it seems perplexing that you can't name anyone that would have been better than the "same old names". Who should have gone to Brazil instead of the same old names? Is Lallana a same old name then, or now, or wasn't then and is now or both or neither?

 

And as you are moaning about successive England managers, who are all these players that would have been so much better? Who was better in 2004? 2006? 2008 was a car crash of management but sure you can put a different team out.

 

I'm not asking for wonder kids, but you seem to think we have teams of unpicked players that could have got us into, say, semi finals of tournaments (or last time out into the group stages) but can't name a single one. Surely you are talking about Premier League players and they're all on TV every week so you must have some idea.

 

Your whole approach seems to be pick the England team like Garth Crooks team of the week which may have some merit but I'm not sure.

 

Anyway. I'll give you, for free, the game changer Mark Noble. And Gabby Ablonglahor. Fresh, dynamic, pushing the boundaries stuff. Give me another twelve and we've got a squad for a friendly.

Edited by CB Fry
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