Pamplemousse Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 I've written an email to UEFA to ask for clarification. If I get a response I'll feedback to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2015-16/apr/150416-european-qualifying-places-explained.html this is from the Premier League itself but is 3 weeks old and doesn't say what will happen if just Liverpool win Europa not Man City and them winning. It does say that if they both win and finish in Europa league positions, England will have 5 CL + 2 EL. I'm assuming that if only one of them win in Europe and are in a Europa spot that it will go down a place so ATM 5th+6th (city will finish in top 5), 7th if United win the FA cup, 8th if Liverpool win and finish in top 7...but I'm really not sure. I'm glad someone has emailed UEFA to clear up the confusion! Needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36180830 It's repeated here too that 8th place could possibly qualify. Are we 100% sure that 8th cannot qualify under any circumstances? "It should also be stated," he added, "that an association with, for example, four places in the UEFA Champions League can increase their participation to five places should a club from their association win the UEFA Europa League in the previous season. "If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Champions League via their domestic league, then the association remains with four places in the UEFA Champions League. If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Europa League via their domestic league, it results in five clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, and two – not three – participating in the UEFA Europa League." http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/execu...d=2226990.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Also going down from 4 Europa league representatives to 2 would be a bit strange wouldn't it? Considering they got rid of the fair play thing surely even if your country has 5 CL teams it shouldn't hinder them from having 3 Europa teams? What happen for Spain last year when Seville got in and they had 5 teams? Finding that out might get us an answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 "It should also be stated," he added, "that an association with, for example, four places in the UEFA Champions League can increase their participation to five places should a club from their association win the UEFA Europa League in the previous season. "If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Champions League via their domestic league, then the association remains with four places in the UEFA Champions League. If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Europa League via their domestic league, it results in five clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, and two – not three – participating in the UEFA Europa League." http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/execu...d=2226990.html FFS Come on Seville then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 FFS Come on Seville then!! Doesn't matter if Liverpool win or lose. It only goes down to 2 EL if they finish in an EL spot but qualify for CL. For example, if they win EL and finish 8th they enter CL and the PL gets the usual 4 CL + 3 EL, plus a bonus CL for Liverpool (so 5 CL + 3 EL total). But if they win EL and finish 7th (say) and Utd win the cup, then their EL spot gets converted to CL for them, but no extra EL spot is opened up below them. So instead of 4 CL + 3 EL we get 5 CL + 2 EL. No-one gets punished, but 8th doesn't get rewarded either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Doesn't matter if Liverpool win or lose. It only goes down to 2 EL if they finish in an EL spot but qualify for CL. For example, if they win EL and finish 8th they enter CL and the PL gets the usual 4 CL + 3 EL, plus a bonus CL for Liverpool (so 5 CL + 3 EL total). But if they win EL and finish 7th (say) and Utd win the cup, then their EL spot gets converted to CL for them, but no extra EL spot is opened up below them. So instead of 4 CL + 3 EL we get 5 CL + 2 EL. No-one gets punished, but 8th doesn't get rewarded either. Yeah that's exactly it, not sure why the media/press are getting their knickers in a twist over it all. Simple maths - win 2 games, get 63pts, 90%+ chance of finishing top 7 I'd say. Worry over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Also going down from 4 Europa league representatives to 2 would be a bit strange wouldn't it? Considering they got rid of the fair play thing surely even if your country has 5 CL teams it shouldn't hinder them from having 3 Europa teams? What happen for Spain last year when Seville got in and they had 5 teams? Finding that out might get us an answer! 4 CL + 3 EL is the usual maximum, not 4 CL + 4 EL, as far as I know. If a team qualifies for CL through winning the CL or EL then it can stay at 4 CL + 3 EL, or possibly go to 5 CL + 3 EL or 5 CL + 2 EL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Yeah that's exactly it, not sure why the media/press are getting their knickers in a twist over it all. Simple maths - win 2 games, get 63pts, 90%+ chance of finishing top 7 I'd say. Worry over. As long as Utd win the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 "It should also be stated," he added, "that an association with, for example, four places in the UEFA Champions League can increase their participation to five places should a club from their association win the UEFA Europa League in the previous season. "If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Champions League via their domestic league, then the association remains with four places in the UEFA Champions League. If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Europa League via their domestic league, it results in five clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, and two – not three – participating in the UEFA Europa League." http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/execu...d=2226990.html But it doesn't state what will happen if Liverpool finish in 8th space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 But it doesn't state what will happen if Liverpool finish in 8th space. They don't have to mention EL. Liverpool would go into CL (an extra CL spot as they say) and everything else is unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36180830 It's repeated here too that 8th place could possibly qualify. Are we 100% sure that 8th cannot qualify under any circumstances? Can't speak for we, but I am. I have read the rules and other relevant documents. The logic is also sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 May, 2016 "It should also be stated," he added, "that an association with, for example, four places in the UEFA Champions League can increase their participation to five places should a club from their association win the UEFA Europa League in the previous season. "If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Champions League via their domestic league, then the association remains with four places in the UEFA Champions League. If that club has already qualified for the UEFA Europa League via their domestic league, it results in five clubs participating in the UEFA Champions League, and two – not three – participating in the UEFA Europa League." http://www.uefa.org/about-uefa/execu...d=2226990.html Yeah, that's what the UEFA site said before they removed it from the news feed and replaced it with the "two teams winning" angle which promptly became defunct. But the issue is still "what happens if Liverpool DON'T qualify for Europe via League position". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 These threads are boring. It's all speculative sh*te, why don't we just see if we get 6 points from what's left and see if the teams around us mess up - then see if we get a European place. As no one seems to know the answer definitely, it's boring and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Yeah, that's what the UEFA site said before they removed it from the news feed and replaced it with the "two teams winning" angle which promptly became defunct. But the issue is still "what happens if Liverpool DON'T qualify for Europe via League position". Then they still go into the CL as an extra (5th) qualifier, and everyone else is unaffected (except maybe the CL seeding, but who cares). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Liverpool win it they go straight into CL group stages, not affecting anyone else, unless they finish above us that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Regardless if they finish above us whilst winning europa cup we still wont get into the europa, only 7 enter europe be it 5+2 or 4+3 as so many have said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Regardless if they finish above us whilst winning europa cup we still wont get into the europa, only 7 enter europe be it 5+2 or 4+3 as so many have said What if they come 5th and we come 6th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Then they still go into the CL as an extra (5th) qualifier, and everyone else is unaffected (except maybe the CL seeding, but who cares). That hasn't actually been stated anywhere though, only implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen_dan Posted 6 May, 2016 Share Posted 6 May, 2016 YET ANOTHER article that mentions 8 teams. Can somebody PLEASE clear this up!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3577314/Shane-Long-complete-striker-Southampton-says-Ronald-Koeman.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 May, 2016 Author Share Posted 6 May, 2016 Yeah, I can clear it up. You can get 8 teams in Europe but Liverpool have to win the EL and finish outside the EL qualification positions for that to happen - which would be them coming 8th or 9th in the Prem. Only the top 7 can qualify for Europe from their League place, if Liverpool come top 7 and win the EL their EL qualification converts to an extra CL spot at the expense of an EL place - but ONLY if they already have an EL place to swap. I've now seen the actual access list (below) and there are 6 English teams plus the Cup winner on it. Liverpool only lose the Prem a Europa League place if they win themselves a Champions League place when already in an EL qualifying place. If they're not in an EL place and win the EL there are still 6 English teams (4 in the CL, 2 in the EL), plus the Cup winner place, plus the EL winner in the CL. Can the qualification places reach as low as 8th? Only if Liverpool finish 8th or 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 7 May, 2016 Share Posted 7 May, 2016 It is worth noting that Spanish fans are not asking any of these questions because the 8th place club in Spain cannot catch the 7th place club. Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid have both clinched champions league spots. The Copa del Rey final is between Barcelona and Sevilla and Sevilla is in the top 7. In theory a nation could get 9 European spots if both the Champions League winner and the Europa League winner is from that nation and neither qualified for Europe in any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So 6th spot, as far as I can tell, will mean we qualify automatically for the Group Stages IF Man Utd win the FA Cup. If Palace win the FA Cup and we finish 6th, then we'll play in the third qualifying round. And I am right in saying that if we finish 6th, Palace win the FA Cup and Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League, then we don't get a spot at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwsaint Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So 6th spot, as far as I can tell, will mean we qualify automatically for the Group Stages IF Man Utd win the FA Cup. If Palace win the FA Cup and we finish 6th, then we'll play in the third qualifying round. And I am right in saying that if we finish 6th, Palace win the FA Cup and Liverpool finish 7th and win the Europa League, then we don't get a spot at all? Don't think so. Under these circumstances Liverpool would not have qualified for EL by their placing. So they would get a CL place but there would be no loss of EL place. Another way of looking at this is that we go into EL if we finish above West Ham, as long as Liverpool don't finish above us and Palace win the cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Don't think so. Under these circumstances Liverpool would not have qualified for EL by their placing. So they would get a CL place but there would be no loss of EL place. Another way of looking at this is that we go into EL if we finish above West Ham, as long as Liverpool don't finish above us and Palace win the cup Oh yes I see. Either way, a Man Utd win in the cup final would do us many favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Pardew really could fook our season up in a big, big way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA SaintsFan Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Am I right in believing that, IF we qualify for Europa League, our coeffecient will be slightly higher due to qualifying last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Basically, everybody forget about Liverpool winning the EL, it appears to make no difference whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 I think We need City to be top four so their leage cup win doesn't count for a Europa place so a draw between Westham and Manu would be ideal Alternatively Manu finish top 4 and win the FA cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Wanting United to win the cup will be very difficult to get behind for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockportsaint Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 I think We need City to be top four so their leage cup win doesn't count for a Europa place so a draw between Westham and Manu would be ideal Alternatively Manu finish top 4 and win the FA cup Hmm. Not sure myself. If city finish fifth they get a EL place from the League Cup, 6th place gets the League place in the EL, and the third EL spot goes to the FA cup winner if that's palace, or 7th place if it's Man U as they'll be in the CL. if Liverpool win the EL then that probably ****s it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So if.... Man Utd win the Cup and come 4th Saints finish 7th Liverpool win the Europa League and come 8th That leaves City with the EL spot for winning the LC Liverpool and Utd both go into the CL, giving us 5 English teams. West Ham get another EL spot for 6th Saints STILL qualify for EL with the 3rd spot, giving us 8 teams in Europe Have I got that right. Just trying to make sure there's no scenario where we'd miss out finishing 7th, UNLESS Palace win the Cup of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So if.... Man Utd win the Cup and come 4th Saints finish 7th Liverpool win the Europa League and come 8th That leaves City with the EL spot for winning the LC Liverpool and Utd both go into the CL, giving us 5 English teams. West Ham get another EL spot for 6th Saints STILL qualify for EL with the 3rd spot, giving us 8 teams in Europe Have I got that right. Just trying to make sure there's no scenario where we'd miss out finishing 7th, UNLESS Palace win the Cup of course. Correct. But if Utd win the Cup and finish above us it doesn't matter in which position they (and City) end up, we would get EL provided we finish in 7th or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Man City's LC spot will drop down to the team in 6th spot regardless, so long as they finish in the top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockportsaint Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So if.... Man Utd win the Cup and come 4th Saints finish 7th Liverpool win the Europa League and come 8th That leaves City with the EL spot for winning the LC Liverpool and Utd both go into the CL, giving us 5 English teams. West Ham get another EL spot for 6th Saints STILL qualify for EL with the 3rd spot, giving us 8 teams in Europe Have I got that right. Just trying to make sure there's no scenario where we'd miss out finishing 7th, UNLESS Palace win the Cup of course. It Man U finish fourth, it means they've almost certainly beaten Wet Spam, which means we only need beat cup-final bound Palace to finish above wet spam, so minimum 7th. If Liverpool drop any points at home to Chelsea or away at the baggies, we can beat palace and finish 6th, then we're either in EL proper or in the qualifiers, depending on whether Man U win the cup. So for the next week I'm a Chelsea and Man U fan, then in two weeks I'm a Man U fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Hmm. Not sure myself. If city finish fifth they get a EL place from the League Cup, 6th place gets the League place in the EL, and the third EL spot goes to the FA cup winner if that's palace, or 7th place if it's Man U as they'll be in the CL. if Liverpool win the EL then that probably ****s it all up. No it doesn't. Them winning EL doesn't make any difference for us. Oh yes I see. Either way, a Man Utd win in the cup final would do us many favours. Not necessarily. If the table ends up like this: Leicester Spurs Arsenal Man City West Ham Liverpool Saints Man Utd then we're out! Either Utd or Palace get the EL spot, along with West Ham and Liverpool (unless they win EL, but that won't help us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Man Utd will not finish in 8th spot. I know it is mathematically possible but it won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 The bottom line is we want Utd to win their remaining matches, and Palace to lose theirs. Come on Utd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Man Utd will not finish in 8th spot. I know it is mathematically possible but it won't happen. You remind me of someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 I think We need City to be top four so their leage cup win doesn't count for a Europa place so a draw between Westham and Manu would be ideal Alternatively Manu finish top 4 and win the FA cup I think the FA Cup final is key - as long as Utd win it won't matter if City or Utd finish 5th in the Prem, either will have qualified for the Europa by way of a cup win, and the second EL qualification place, released by the 4th placed team gaining an ECL slot, slips to the 6th placed team. This, I think, caters for consequences of Liverpool winning the Europa League, and thereby going into the ECL - leaving England with 5 ECL and 2 EL qualifiers. IMO, the midweek games need to produce a Man Utd win and a Liverpool draw ( or defeat ). In that situation, provided we beat Palace, I reckon the Premier League table & consequent European places would be; 1) Leics - ECL group stage 2) Spuds - ECL group stage 3) Arse - ECL group stage 4) Man ( Utd or City ) - ECL playoff round 5) Man ( Utd or City ) - EL playoff round 6) Saints - EL 3rd qualifying round 7th or 8th ) L'pool - ECL playoff round 7th or 8th ) WHU - nowhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 You remind me of someone. I expect CB Fry to comment imminently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 I think the FA Cup final is key - as long as Utd win it won't matter if City or Utd finish 5th in the Prem, either will have qualified for the Europa by way of a cup win, and the second EL qualification place, released by the 4th placed team gaining an ECL slot, slips to the 6th placed team. This, I think, caters for consequences of Liverpool winning the Europa League, and thereby going into the ECL - leaving England with 5 ECL and 2 EL qualifiers. IMO, the midweek games need to produce a Man Utd win and a Liverpool draw ( or defeat ). In that situation, provided we beat Palace, I reckon the Premier League table & consequent European places would be; 1) Leics - ECL group stage 2) Spuds - ECL group stage 3) Arse - ECL group stage 4) Man ( Utd or City ) - ECL playoff round 5) Man ( Utd or City ) - EL playoff round 6) Saints - EL 3rd qualifying round 7th or 8th ) L'pool - ECL playoff round 7th or 8th ) WHU - nowhere If Utd win the Cup 7th is assured of EL, except in the mathematically possible but highly unlikely case of Utd finishing 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 So we want Man U to win all their games? Yeah, best of luck Man Uteeth> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 (edited) If Utd win the Cup 7th is assured of EL, except in the mathematically possible but highly unlikely case of Utd finishing 8th. I think England have a maimum of 7 european places, normally that would be 4 ECL ( top 4 in the Prem ) and 3 EL ( 1 for 5th and 1 each for the cups ). However, if Liverpool win the EL and do not qualify for the ECL by league position, we switch to 5 EL ( 4 league + Liverpool ), and 2 EL ( FA Cup and 5th in Prem, the League Cup place is forfeited - but the FA Cup place swaps to 6th in the Prem if Man U win ). Edited 8 May, 2016 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 No. It only goes to 5 CL + 2 EL if Liverpool win the EL final and end up in an EL position (so no-one gets punished). If they win the EL final and finish lower than an EL position (e.g. 8th if Utd win the cup) then we get 5 CL + 3 EL. Club in 7th is still in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Let me get this squared off in my box. We are cheering Utd in league and cup but we don't have to cheer on the scousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Let me get this squared off in my box. We are cheering Utd in league and cup but we don't have to cheer on the scousers? Yep -united but not the scousers. We are also cheering on chelsea, if that makes you feel any better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 But if we can somehow get 6th we could all support palace in the cup final, which would make me feel less dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 Am I right in believing that, IF we qualify for Europa League, our coeffecient will be slightly higher due to qualifying last year? I believe so, plus we also won a round v Vitesse which counts towards it. Think our standard coefficient last year was approx 16, and by beating Vitesse we would have gained a small additional value, so maybe next season our coefficient would be closer to 17. Won't make a huge amount of difference but if we're in the qualifying rounds in could make a significant difference between being seeded or unseeded, as I think this year we were on the cusp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 May, 2016 Share Posted 8 May, 2016 But if we can somehow get 6th we could all support palace in the cup final, which would make me feel less dirty. Nope. If we finish 6th, we'd DEFINITELY want Man United to win the FA Cup as then the 6th place in the league would be an automatic group stage spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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