Why is it just lowe at fault?

Viking Warrior · 21 January, 2009

The Fans are always looking for someone to blame but if you pore down through all the details there wasn't one catastrophic mistake or decision made. Football is a results and finance driven business. If the results don’t go well then the club suffers. This is not a unique situation for Southampton FC . It occurs to Newcastle, West Ham, Charlton; Coventry etc only a few clubs are immune. From such problems mainly the big 4.

Normally the fans will either blame the chairman or the Manager

"There has been about a dozen or so errors/decisions’ made, which put together created this mess we now find ourselves in. No one person was to blame. I had hoped that the consortium that took over from Lowe would have given us a better future but alas not errors of judgement were abundant when they took over.

"I think most ordinary people if they put themselves in the place of the various personalities we have or had in the boardroom would have had significant problems in turning saints around when there is little or no money coming into the club.

I’m NO Lowe apologist, just someone who can see the wider picture to what is happening to football per se. We are one of a number of clubs deep in the mire premiership included.

I see bucket full’s of cash have been ploughed in to Coventry City following the SISU takeover (Not) they are in a bigger mess as us. (My Coventry City Mate) Tells me he sympathises with me as his club are in a terrible mess

"But I guess if we're looking for someone to blame perhaps it's the person who decided not to invest heavily in the transfer market after the cup final. Maybe it is those players we purchased that did not live up to expectation that let us down. Maybe it is the FA, Premier League and notably Sky who have screwed us for just concentration on the big 4 and champions league

Whether rightly or wrongly Lowe has to take some responsibility as he is the Captain of the ship but so do the rest of the ships company including the players.

Lord Duckhunter · 21 January, 2009

I dont believe Coventry are in a bigger mess than us, in fact I find it a bit strange that anyone could think they are..........

Give it to Ron · 21 January, 2009

I find it quite strange that people still think we all just blame Lowe when there are many threads blaming everyone but...

Personally I blame everyone bar the fans....this season.

trousers · 21 January, 2009

Another crap analogy alert....

I want the current regime out of 10 Downing Street. I thus direct my criticism at Bottler Brown rather than Tony B-liar because the Bottler happens to be in the hot seat at the moment.

Frank's cousin · 21 January, 2009

1. I dot believe he is. Many other contributing factors

2. Lowe has not admitted his part in this

3. Lowe has REPEATED the mistakes

4. Struggled to communicate the rationale for strategies so fans ASSUME its cheap option

5. NO humility perceived as arrogant

6. Some latent prejudices

John B · 21 January, 2009

The Fans are always looking for someone to blame but if you pore down through all the details there wasn't one catastrophic mistake or decision made. Football is a results and finance driven business. If the results don’t go well then the club suffers. This is not a unique situation for Southampton FC . It occurs to Newcastle, West Ham, Charlton; Coventry etc only a few clubs are immune. From such problems mainly the big 4.
Normally the fans will either blame the chairman or the Manager
"There has been about a dozen or so errors/decisions’ made, which put together created this mess we now find ourselves in. No one person was to blame. I had hoped that the consortium that took over from Lowe would have given us a better future but alas not errors of judgement were abundant when they took over.
"I think most ordinary people if they put themselves in the place of the various personalities we have or had in the boardroom would have had significant problems in turning saints around when there is little or no money coming into the club.
I’m NO Lowe apologist, just someone who can see the wider picture to what is happening to football per se. We are one of a number of clubs deep in the mire premiership included.
I see bucket full’s of cash have been ploughed in to Coventry City following the SISU takeover (Not) they are in a bigger mess as us. (My Coventry City Mate) Tells me he sympathises with me as his club are in a terrible mess
"But I guess if we're looking for someone to blame perhaps it's the person who decided not to invest heavily in the transfer market after the cup final. Maybe it is those players we purchased that did not live up to expectation that let us down. Maybe it is the FA, Premier League and notably Sky who have screwed us for just concentration on the big 4 and champions league
Whether rightly or wrongly Lowe has to take some responsibility as he is the Captain of the ship but so do the rest of the ships company including the players.

I totally agree

Most fans appear insular and dont understand what is happening in the wider world.

Lack of a large amount of money has been a problem with SFC since the Premiership started we cannot compete with the large city clubs which seem to have so much money.

John B · 21 January, 2009

I find it quite strange that people still think we all just blame Lowe when there are many threads blaming everyone but...
Personally I blame everyone bar the fans....this season.

Everyone bar the fans that go to the games

Katalinic · 21 January, 2009

I totally agree

Most fans appear insular and dont understand what is happening in the wider world.

Lack of a large amount of money has been a problem with SFC since the Premiership started we cannot compete with the large city clubs which seem to have so much money.

Lack of a large amount of money since we were relegated from the Prem would be nearer the truth and it was Lowe who oversaw that. We did compete until 2003 but it was post Cup Final that Lowe lost the plot, we could have been one of those rich city clubs if only we'd still have been in the top flight when the new TV deal was negotiated.

Katalinic · 21 January, 2009

I dont believe Coventry are in a bigger mess than us, in fact I find it a bit strange that anyone could think they are..........

I understand that they don't own the Ricoh but rent it from the council making it difficult to generate income - they also effectively have no asset base. In effect they are a "football club" in name only. Ironic really that we do own our ground and yet that is the millstone around our neck - not sure which situation is worse, ours or Cov's.

John B · 21 January, 2009

Lack of a large amount of money since we were relegated from the Prem would be nearer the truth and it was Lowe who oversaw that. We did compete until 2003 but it was post Cup Final that Lowe lost the plot, we could have been one of those rich city clubs if only we'd still have been in the top flight when the new TV deal was negotiated.

You must be joking where was the money to come from to invest?

We had a good couple of years but the squad was ageing or injured especially the so called defence and no one was coming through from the Academy

Give it to Ron · 21 January, 2009

Everyone bar the fans that go to the games

Nope unlike you I don't begrudge anyone not willing to pay £24 if they cannot afford it.

In life there are differeing priorities and paying a large sum of money a season on something that is a shocking product and value for money comes lower for some people. These people still follow Saints on the radio/TV/forums/newspapers but cannot afford to go to SMS...is that their fault?

Had I not been a season ticket holder for a number of years I would probably of not bothered many times this season and just gone to watch the reserves for nothing - last week there were 8 out of the 11 starters who were first teamers this season. The product is not worth £24!

BadgerBadger · 21 January, 2009

For the cogs of any business to run smoothy there has to be unity and while Lowe is in the ranks there will never be unity, he's too divisive a character.

Yes he has some qualities that are required to run the business side of a football club but they're far out weighed by his shortcomings in the other areas.

Never in the field of conflict has so few done so much to make such a mess of a good thing

Katalinic · 21 January, 2009

You must be joking where was the money to come from to invest?

We had a good couple of years but the squad was ageing or injured especially the so called defence and no one was coming through from the Academy

I think the money was there but it certainly wasn't spent wisely - a large amount was spent on paying off former managers! The Academy began to bear fruit after we were relegated and again, if we had hung on for one more season in the Prem we would not be in the mess we are in now as we could have integrated the Walcotts, Bales etc into the existing structure. The fact is Lowe, post cup final and particularly in our relegation season, bought in a large amount of average players when it was a small amount of real quality players that we lacked - I also believe that this is the reason we lost Strachan. The money was there John B, it was just wasted.

Wade Garrett · 21 January, 2009

I totally agree

Most fans appear insular and dont understand what is happening in the wider world.

Lack of a large amount of money has been a problem with SFC since the Premiership started we cannot compete with the large city clubs which seem to have so much money.

So most fans are a bit stupid are they? Who, the lunatic fringe.

You are talking bullsh*t again.

hughieslastminutegoal · 21 January, 2009

Lack of a large amount of money has been a problem with SFC since the Premiership started we cannot compete with the large city clubs which seem to have so much money.

An argument that applies equally well to everyone else in the division, perhaps less so to the newly relegated still in receipt of a parachute payment.

But we seem to be managing much less well than the rest (Charlton excepted), and I really don't believe that our wage bill aggregated over the last 3 seasons is significantly more than most.

John B · 21 January, 2009

Nope unlike you I don't begrudge anyone not willing to pay £24 if they cannot afford it.
In life there are differeing priorities and paying a large sum of money a season on something that is a shocking product and value for money comes lower for some people. These people still follow Saints on the radio/TV/forums/newspapers but cannot afford to go to SMS...is that their fault?

Had I not been a season ticket holder for a number of years I would probably of not bothered many times this season and just gone to watch the reserves for nothing - last week there were 8 out of the 11 starters who were first teamers this season. The product is not worth £24!

Of course you are right

Sorry I just feel some so called fans are not helping the situation at the moment

Snowballs2 · 21 January, 2009

The simple answer is that in life and work we are ALL accountable. Lowe has screwed up more than any other simply by the time he has been there. He perpetuates the same mistakes, crap managers, meddling in team affairs ertc.

So for me I see him as the one my fury is aimed at the most

John B · 21 January, 2009

The simple answer is that in life and work we are ALL accountable. Lowe has screwed up more than any other simply by the time he has been there. He perpetuates the same mistakes, crap managers, meddling in team affairs ertc.
So for me I see him as the one my fury is aimed at the most

I think Lowe is not the only Chairman to appoint Crap Managers

I dont think other Chairman have not made mistakes.

I think other Chairman/CEO meddle in team affairs including Kenyon at Chelsea and Parry at Liverpool

Lord Duckhunter · 21 January, 2009

I think Lowe is not the only Chairman to appoint Crap Managers

There isn't another Chairman in the top 2 divisions who would have appointed JP, let alone kept him on after his performance so far.

Gemmel · 21 January, 2009

The Fans are always looking for someone to blame but if you pore down through all the details there wasn't one catastrophic mistake or decision made. Football is a results and finance driven business. If the results don’t go well then the club suffers. This is not a unique situation for Southampton FC . It occurs to Newcastle, West Ham, Charlton; Coventry etc only a few clubs are immune. From such problems mainly the big 4.
Normally the fans will either blame the chairman or the Manager
"There has been about a dozen or so errors/decisions’ made, which put together created this mess we now find ourselves in. No one person was to blame. I had hoped that the consortium that took over from Lowe would have given us a better future but alas not errors of judgement were abundant when they took over.
"I think most ordinary people if they put themselves in the place of the various personalities we have or had in the boardroom would have had significant problems in turning saints around when there is little or no money coming into the club.
I’m NO Lowe apologist, just someone who can see the wider picture to what is happening to football per se. We are one of a number of clubs deep in the mire premiership included.
I see bucket full’s of cash have been ploughed in to Coventry City following the SISU takeover (Not) they are in a bigger mess as us. (My Coventry City Mate) Tells me he sympathises with me as his club are in a terrible mess
"But I guess if we're looking for someone to blame perhaps it's the person who decided not to invest heavily in the transfer market after the cup final. Maybe it is those players we purchased that did not live up to expectation that let us down. Maybe it is the FA, Premier League and notably Sky who have screwed us for just concentration on the big 4 and champions league
Whether rightly or wrongly Lowe has to take some responsibility as he is the Captain of the ship but so do the rest of the ships company including the players.

In his first tenure, he made mistakes, most people do. Whether he made enough mistakes or big enough mistakes to warrant the way he was viewed or portrayed is open for debate, although personally the Wigley appointment was bizarre and an uneccessary risk.

However with regard to your question as to why is it all lowes fault (In relation to his second tenure) for me it's quite simple and absolutely is all lowes fault. Lowe had lined up portivelt before he had made up with wilde and before he had got his foot back in the door. What we are seing now is lowes vision and stratergy - No one else's..... A vision and stratergy that is so fundementally flawed that even Stevie Wonder could see the mess it would lead to. The financial argument holds no water, given the number of loanees and coaches we have bought in, the extending of Dyers contract and the delayed inclusion of senior players on our books. In typical fashion lowe then built it all up on the OS into something magical, revolutionary and believable. The reality has proved very different and given your average football fan could have predicted it, leaves the blame firmly at his door. Additionally his failing to act and try and remedy the situation again leaves him open for the abuse he is recieving.

If is fault in his first stint as Chairman is debateable, his second one isn't and this will ultimately be his downfall, unfortuneately it looks as if it will be SFC's as well.

Pancake · 21 January, 2009

There isn't another Chairman in the top 2 divisions who would have appointed JP, let alone kept him on after his performance so far.

I take it you have asked all 43 of them personally, yes?

Thedelldays · 21 January, 2009

I take it you have asked all 43 of them personally, yes?

lol

how many did appoint him..?

glkdcdes · 21 January, 2009

I totally agree

Most fans appear insular and dont understand what is happening in the wider world.

Lack of a large amount of money has been a problem with SFC since the Premiership started we cannot compete with the large city clubs which seem to have so much money.

Sorry, but i think it is slightly patronising to suggest that most fans dont know what is going on in the wider world. It seems to be a lazy cover all comment that i have seen on this forum by people defending our current plight. Probably as patronising as Lowe hiking around the previous regime incompetence line. Of couse we cant compete with the big clubs, who thinks we can?

Also to respond to the original post. I would be very surprised if anyone thinks it is just Lowes fault where we are. I certainly and again i bet most people actually dont think that and probable dont care who is to blame.

From my point of view however, i do not trust Lowe and i do not like him. I dont like the way he treats people and i dont like the way he is killing the spirit of our club. I felt all these things before he came back, i just find him a distasteful man. When he got rid of Pearson and all the weazel words around that, i knew then it was a tragic error and time is only proving my feelings correct.

So i do not think its all Lowes fault. I would just be very grateful if i didnt have to witness what this dispicable man is doing to the club i have supported for 40 years.

Wade Garrett · 21 January, 2009

I think Lowe is not the only Chairman to appoint Crap Managers

I dont think other Chairman have not made mistakes.

I think other Chairman/CEO meddle in team affairs including Kenyon at Chelsea and Parry at Liverpool

Laughable.

INFLUENCED.COM · 21 January, 2009

Blame can be apportioned, right now, I blame Wilde previously I apportion blame to:-

historically, Ted Bates for getting us into top flight football, so Chivers has to accept an amount of responsibility as does Davies for keeping us there for some years, then I suppose we have to blame the '76 lot with Stokes being the main protagonist, now in my watching days i'll have to blame...Ball, Keegan, Channon, Moran, Danny Wallace but mostly Le Tissier, because, you see, without those lot I wouldn't give two flucks whats happening to Saints right now, but sadly because of all those mentioned and many that were not, it will take very many years before my expectation level drops to where I am content to be watching our club play sheite football in the same division they joined 90 years ago

Frank's cousin · 21 January, 2009

Its not the medling - its the impact it has

Its not the appointments - its the success or failure

Hes made mistakes and not acknowledged them

Hes failed to communicate with fans the strategy and rationale for these decisions - which leaves gaps to be filled in by assumption, rumour and gossip x paranoia

Perceived arrgance/lack of humilty = unpopular character - fine when things going well, disasterouse when not.

John B · 21 January, 2009

Laughable.

Why is it laughable?

Lowe is doing similar things to other chairman/Ceos

Benietz is not happy with Parry interferring in the tranfer policy

70's Mike · 21 January, 2009

Why is it laughable?

Lowe is doing similar things to other chairman/Ceos

Benietz is not happy with Parry interferring in the tranfer policy

trying to think of another club who have appointed an unknown dutch coach from the equivalent of wessex league.

Wade Garrett · 21 January, 2009

Why is it laughable?

Lowe is doing similar things to other chairman/Ceos

Benietz is not happy with Parry interferring in the tranfer policy

I thought you were inferring that Parry and Kenyon were trying to tell the manager what players to play, like Lowe does.

Apologies.

Frank's cousin · 21 January, 2009

It is true to some extent that fans are never satidfied with cahirman unless they are providing the open cheque book to manager we approve of...

Calvin · 21 January, 2009

So it is not Lowes fault based on his and the boards decision making

Look at where we are now. look how things were in the premiership when Lowe was controlling the club... THERE WAS NO AMBITION. EVERYTHING is based on business, that is why we are in the position of a dying club. Lowe clearly doesn't have enough guts to take a risk.

You just have to look at the answers how Saints could have been a top club, if ran correctly!

Wade Garrett · 21 January, 2009

trying to think of another club who have appointed an unknown dutch coach from the equivalent of wessex league.

We'd have been better off with Roger Sherwood, who was a decent, no-nonsense Wessex League manager.

70's Mike · 21 January, 2009

We'd have been better off with Roger Sherwood, who was a decent, no-nonsense Wessex League manager.

understand Roger was asked to come out of retirement but he wanted to pick the team so Rupert said no

Bucks Saint · 21 January, 2009

Its not the medling - its the impact it has
Its not the appointments - its the success or failure
Hes made mistakes and not acknowledged them
Hes failed to communicate with fans the strategy and rationale for these decisions - which leaves gaps to be filled in by assumption, rumour and gossip x paranoia
Perceived arrgance/lack of humilty = unpopular character - fine when things going well, disasterouse when not.

He has not just failed to communicate - has fundamentally spun everything, and taken actions, to cover up the truth, to the point of us (and him) being a laughing stock way beyond the boundaries of Hampshire

He keeps making so many mistakes, and makes more to cover them up so often, that I am amazed you have not noticed (or are you covering them up?)

You think he was popular at some point? I must have been asleep that day

Calvin · 21 January, 2009

I blame Kermit The Frog!

Sheff Saint · 21 January, 2009

In his first tenure, he made mistakes, most people do. Whether he made enough mistakes or big enough mistakes to warrant the way he was viewed or portrayed is open for debate, although personally the Wigley appointment was bizarre and an uneccessary risk.

However with regard to your question as to why is it all lowes fault (In relation to his second tenure) for me it's quite simple and absolutely is all lowes fault. Lowe had lined up portivelt before he had made up with wilde and before he had got his foot back in the door. What we are seing now is lowes vision and stratergy - No one else's..... A vision and stratergy that is so fundementally flawed that even Stevie Wonder could see the mess it would lead to. The financial argument holds no water, given the number of loanees and coaches we have bought in, the extending of Dyers contract and the delayed inclusion of senior players on our books. In typical fashion lowe then built it all up on the OS into something magical, revolutionary and believable. The reality has proved very different and given your average football fan could have predicted it, leaves the blame firmly at his door. Additionally his failing to act and try and remedy the situation again leaves him open for the abuse he is recieving.

If is fault in his first stint as Chairman is debateable, his second one isn't and this will ultimately be his downfall, unfortuneately it looks as if it will be SFC's as well.

A good summary.

Add in that i'm not sure the finanicial 'mess' is quite as bad as made out. (This is one i hope i'm not wrong on).

I understand the debt and the stadium loan but can't believe they being what they are would force us into administration. I think, while the situation is very bad, Lowe is milking it for what it is worth to give leverage to pushing through his policies.

aintforever · 21 January, 2009

The money situation is not his fault but the whole dutch experiment is 100% Lowe's fault.

Bucks Saint · 21 January, 2009

trying to think of another club who have appointed an unknown dutch coach from the equivalent of wessex league.

or one that has shipped out 3 high quality strikers, whilst appointing a trio of Dutch non league managers and a whole platoon of rubbish signings + loanees and then is surprised when we cant score for toffee and the crowds have dropped

Calvin · 21 January, 2009

The money situation is not his fault but the whole dutch experiment is 100% Lowe's fault.

Calvin · 21 January, 2009

or one that has shipped out 3 high quality strikers, whilst appointing a trio of Dutch non league managers and a whole platoon of rubbish signings + loanees and then is surprised when we cant score for toffee and the crowds have dropped

Doesn't Lowe make the signings as Jan doesn't have a clue about this league.

Under Weststand · 21 January, 2009

The whole situation surounding the club ie:- the financial situation is not all Lowe's fault. However he is culpable as our Wilde & a lesser extent Crouch. His big downfall is trying to lay the blame for his mistake's at somone else's door all the time. And as for the way the season has gone to date & his Dutch experiment then I hold him totaly responsible for our situation as regards the playing side of the club.

At the start of the season there was a thread about how we thought we'd do & at the time I questioned his method but hoped that I'd be proved wrong for the good of our club & still do hope by some miracle that it suddenly turns around. But forgive me if I dont think thats going to happen. If the worst happens & we go down & into administration he will have no one but himself to blame, he had the chance to show he was a changed man when he came back by admitting he had made mistake's & proving what a big man he was by leaving Pearson in charge & he could then have still done a lot of triming of the wage bill & let A football-man run the football side of it, I think we all new we would be in for a bit of a roller coaster ride this season even if pearson had stayed. But leaving Pearson in charge would at least have got a lot of the fans onside at the start. But NO he just had to do it his way, and unfortunatley we will end up reaping what he has sown.

So to sum up is it all Lowe's Fault, no but a great deal of it is. Its about time he held his hands up & admited it FOR THE GOOD OF SOUTHAMPTON F.C while we still have one to suport.

alpine_saint · 21 January, 2009

It is true to some extent that fans are never satidfied with cahirman unless they are providing the open cheque book to manager we approve of...

What bolllocks.

Saints fans have put up with having no money for decades.

70's Mike · 21 January, 2009

What bolllocks.

Saints fans have put up with having no money for decades.

exactly the golden goose was meant to be the plc , we bought shares and it went into the club, problem was the majority shareholding was given to the directors of sfc and ruperts company who basically paid nothing.

saint1977 · 22 January, 2009

The whole situation surounding the club ie:- the financial situation is not all Lowe's fault. However he is culpable as our Wilde & a lesser extent Crouch. His big downfall is trying to lay the blame for his mistake's at somone else's door all the time. And as for the way the season has gone to date & his Dutch experiment then I hold him totaly responsible for our situation as regards the playing side of the club.
At the start of the season there was a thread about how we thought we'd do & at the time I questioned his method but hoped that I'd be proved wrong for the good of our club & still do hope by some miracle that it suddenly turns around. But forgive me if I dont think thats going to happen. If the worst happens & we go down & into administration he will have no one but himself to blame, he had the chance to show he was a changed man when he came back by admitting he had made mistake's & proving what a big man he was by leaving Pearson in charge & he could then have still done a lot of triming of the wage bill & let A football-man run the football side of it, I think we all new we would be in for a bit of a roller coaster ride this season even if pearson had stayed. But leaving Pearson in charge would at least have got a lot of the fans onside at the start. But NO he just had to do it his way, and unfortunatley we will end up reaping what he has sown.
So to sum up is it all Lowe's Fault, no but a great deal of it is. Its about time he held his hands up & admited it FOR THE GOOD OF SOUTHAMPTON F.C while we still have one to suport.

Good post and I also agree with 70's Mike below. It's NOT all Rupert's fault, far from it, but he doesn't acknowledge the mistakes he made. I don't expect him to do that publically but I DO expect him not to consistently repeat them as he continues to do.

Big Ron fan · 22 January, 2009

With regard to the original question...

It is not just Lowe to blame, it is also all the other idiots, from boardroom downwards, who back his mad schemes and dreadful decision-making.

gordonToo · 22 January, 2009

A good summary.

Add in that i'm not sure the finanicial 'mess' is quite as bad as made out. (This is one i hope i'm not wrong on).

I understand the debt and the stadium loan but can't believe they being what they are would force us into administration. I think, while the situation is very bad, Lowe is milking it for what it is worth to give leverage to pushing through his policies.

I'll go along with that too. The share price is certainly not indicating administration is imminent and the rumours and newspaper articles of recent days are suggestive (to me anyway) of a propaganda exercise.