Liverpool 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Patches O Houlihan]

Just now, sockeye said:

Didn’t watch the game, and don’t want to scroll through the thread.

 

How was it?

Better than standing in dog shit! 😁

We played a mid block which gave us space to get in behind them. The front five pressed really effectively. It was a shame that Jander had to go off, but Charles played well and scored his first goal for us. Jelert had a good debut, looked lively, and worth persevering with despite him losing his man for their second.

Macca played great except for one brain fart 38 seconds after Arma and then Scienza had very good chances to put us ahead. Game turned on that moment.

The ref apologised for being forced to send off Liverpool's second bright new hope so to make up for it he gave them everything after 86 minutes played.

All our team put in a good shift and put their hands up for a place in the team; but Downs looked and played like like some of the 11 year olds I played the occasional game of footy with at a US summer camp. 

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Didn’t watch the game, and don’t want to scroll through the thread.

 

How was it?

Saints overall played very well and there were many positives not least the fact that we looked like a team rather than a bunch of individuals. The 3 centre backs played well especially Wood who deserves to start on Saturday as does Jelert who had an excellent debut at right back. Jander and Downes were strong in midfield although the former picked up a knock. Front 3 of AA, Archer and Scienza were lively - Scienza should have scored just before we gifted Liverpool their first goal. Macca made some good saves and did most things well aside from the customary brain fart of trying to play out from the back when it was not the right option and giving the ball to Chienza who set up Isaac - such a stupid mistake and Will Still was clearly fuming after the game and could not conceal his distain at another schoolboy error costing us a goal. We passed the ball well and found pockets of space to give Liverpool plenty to think about and Charles scored a deserved equaliser. A moment of class saw them get the winner but the positives far outweighed the negatives which include the fact that Downs does not resemble a professional footballer.

[skintsaint]

Wonder if Still noted we scored from an inswinging corner 😅

[saintant]

13 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Wonder if Still noted we scored from an inswinging corner 😅

Good point. Assist for big Quarshie as well wasn't it although don't think it was meant - looked more like a swing and miscue that turned out to be a perfect nick into the path of Charles.

[Viking Saint]

14 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Still says he's learned nothing tonight and we shot ourselves in the foot.

Right miserable bollox he is

How he can't have learned from that is staggering. That was the best performance of the season and it's no coincidence given the changes in personnel.

[Viking Saint]

3 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

I know what you mean but I hope it indicates that he won’t tolerate second best and is showing the players that in no uncertain terms. For way too long there has been a losing mentality at the club and mediocrity has been accepted at every level. If he is going to be the one that says ‘no, I don’t care who we’re playing, that’s not good enough’ and shakes things up so that every player feels like they have to be at the top of their game to stay in the side, then that’s fine with me. No more acceptance of the basic errors and sloppiness that have plagued us for seasons now. Shape up or you’re out of the team, whether it’s against Northampton reserves or Liverpool at Anfield. 

Saturday will be the proof. If he won't tolerate second best, then we won't be seeing Stephens or THB again. 

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, Viking Saint said:

How he can't have learned from that is staggering. That was the best performance of the season and it's no coincidence given the changes in personnel.

Think he was being a bit ironic/sarcastic to the fact that we again gift wrapped a goal to our opponents so did not learn anything.

[gio1saints]

My highlights from last nights match. 
 

1. The new formation worked. Keep it. ✅ ✅✅✅
2. Jelert did not disgrace himself on debut. Did not amaze but solid enough bearing in mind the opposition. ✅✅
3. Alex MCc made a couple of great saves then possibly destroyed his future career prospects with that passing to them bollocks. A repeat of what he did the last time he was allowed to play in a big boys stadium at Newcastle. I’m just sorry for him at this point. Did he learn his lesson? Not I’m afraid. ❌✅❌
4. Ryan Manning is playing his best version of himself and he looks a good left back. Where has he been under previous managers?  He has got more than just a sweet left foot and showed plenty class in the ball under pressure. My prediction is he will win championship lb of the season team. ✅👍- my Saints MOtM. 
5. Quarsie and Woods. Well done fellas. If you dont get picked v Boro you are right to be aggrieved. IF its all performance based - as has been insinuated by Still - then them two start on Saturday.✅✅

6. Downes. So you didn’t like the rumours about your immune system and wanted to show you still got the legs and the ability? WHY THE FUCK Don’t YOU PLAY THAT WAY EVERY WEEK INSTEAD OF ALL THAT PASSIVE PASSING SHIT YOU BEEN ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH FIR TOO LONG!!!✅❌🤺

7. Casper and Shea. Are good players -actually very good players at Championship level. ✅
8. Leo : unlucky son. Keep shooting though and keep doing aggressive things. But FFS how do you miss that header professional footballer and all? ✅❌🤯
9. Adarma. He’s back and playing better. First swallow is it or is it that he’s fucking back? Just be fucking back Adarma we need you to score notfanny around. ✅
9. Talking of fannying around. Poor poor Damion. He wet himself. Again. On the big stage. He IS a player. But fuck knows what sport because his head needs major sorting out. As Will said - he needs to get angry and forget about nerves let his instincts take over. Pick a fight do something- not this abject and upsetting to watch a big guy grown man wetting himself with fear on a footie pitch nonsense. Cowboy up big boy. Or get a proper job because your impression of a CF is not working. ❌😢🤠⬆️

10. Ronnie : no disgrace did alright at RB. ✅

11. Cam. Does what he always does run run run but when is it going to be scoring goals like he’s supposed to?Clock is ticking on his career he does not start putting them away. ⏰✅❌

12. Still : Good new formation and style. Not one long boot to Cam! Subs/changes were still by the numbers though not much interesting stuff going on in game. But he’s a kid.And still green in uk football. How long is that excuse valid for I wonder. He’s got max until Xmas to turn this excellent squad into a top two or minimum top six team. ✅
 

[suewhistle]

Re 9B.. I once played with a lass who used to have a little swig of grappa just before leaving the changing rooms for K.O. A fast forward who scored some good goals. Perhaps that's what Damion needs, or are they allowed beta blockers?

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Going Home with Adam & Jo

Jo Tessem is suggesting that against Middlesborough we play:

                      McCarthy

Jelert    Stephens   Wood      Manning

               Jander (if fit) Downes

Fellows             Azaz                 Fraser

                        Archer

with recognition that Scienza & Arma ought to feel aggrieved and should come off the bench fired up for Fraser & Fellows

Shea Charles has been my MOTM practically every game he's played this season so I would definitely have him in the side.

People saying McCarthy cocked it up playing Russball, but he's been a liability long before RM turned up at the door. Remember Brighton when he was injured and played on? The amount of times he used to hoof it in to touch? We're stuck with a goalkeeper who can't makes saves and one who can make saves but do nothing else.

[Saint Billy]

27 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Shea Charles has been my MOTM practically every game he's played this season so I would definitely have him in the side.

People saying McCarthy cocked it up playing Russball, but he's been a liability long before RM turned up at the door. Remember Brighton when he was injured and played on? The amount of times he used to hoof it in to touch? We're stuck with a goalkeeper who can't makes saves and one who can make saves but do nothing else.

He is a liability whoever manages him. I can only presume that he and Jack have the personalities of Mother Teresa.

[kitch]

6 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

You're a young manager from a foreign league - people have heard of you but don't really know what you are about. 

You are ambitious and very aware of what people are saying about you and your team because your missus is very well connected.

You have virtually the strongest squad in the league but all the experienced players are downtrodden and have had Russball beaten into them. 

Your new players are exiting, but raw and don't yet have the familiarity required to get the team charging.

Every single competitive game since you started has seen at least one, usually two or three absolute clangers dropped by the players which means that any good stuff they have done is forgotten. [and the Pompey game couldn't have come at a worse time]

The owners of the club have a poor reputation with the fans, and the club has been through 97 managers in the last 4 years.

Also the fans have put a poll up one the principal forum calling for your head already.

You don't want your young career to be fucked by Saints before it's started. 

I think I'd be having some sleepless nights and feel under pressure in front of the cameras too. 

100%.

And to be fair, not everybody is charismatic infront of a camera. Puel and Pellegrino were hopelessly dull on screen, but behind the scenes they may not have been.
Will's shown enough in various BTS clips and podcasts etc to show me communication with the players looks OK.

[Verbal]

15 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

McCarthy has made regular clangers throughout his career. Every manager who has been able to choose between him and Baz has chosen the latter and rightly so. If Baz had put in the EXACT same performance as McC tonight, there is no way in hell anybody on this forum is saying it’s a much improved performance and he should keep his spot for Saturday.

I don’t care if people don’t rate either of our keepers, if you think we should’ve signed a first choice in summer then fine, but if the two we’ve got Baz is better.

But isn't the larger question whether Saints should prioritise a keeper in the Jan window, especially if the team sits in the upper half of the table and is still in with a chance of an auto spot? Because however you frame the differences between them, the choice AM and GB is a Hobson one. 

[derry]

Having watched McCarthy over the years there are several things that for me rule him out. A classic stupidity that having passed out to a Newcastle player who then crossed for Izak to score then last night to do exactly the same thing for Izak again to score. McCarthy might be a better shotstopper but he chickens out if he has to come out and block at a players feet alternatively on occasions pulls his head out of the way instead of trying to block at the near post, an example against Wolves a few seasons ago when the ball was blasted into the roof of the net as he got out of the way.

If McCarthy is to play he would have to absolutely not play passes purely belt the ball upfield out wide every time. I think this play it out fad has really time expired, it causes more problems than it solves.

[Saint86]

19 minutes ago, derry said:

Having watched McCarthy over the years there are several things that for me rule him out. A classic stupidity that having passed out to a Newcastle player who then crossed for Izak to score then last night to do exactly the same thing for Izak again to score. McCarthy might be a better shotstopper but he chickens out if he has to come out and block at a players feet alternatively on occasions pulls his head out of the way instead of trying to block at the near post, an example against Wolves a few seasons ago when the ball was blasted into the roof of the net as he got out of the way.

If McCarthy is to play he would have to absolutely not play passes purely belt the ball upfield out wide every time. I think this play it out fad has really time expired, it causes more problems than it solves.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Macca is the worse keeper of the two. He's a liability that will give away goals or horror passes multiple times per match and without warning.

Bazunu's shot stopping isn't as strong, fine, but his all around play is far superior - he is better with the ball at his feet, he will sweep the back line and through balls, and his kicking/distribution is very good for the level we're at. That brings a calmness. Its the defences job to stop shots - the chance he parried back into the box vs Hull is 3 defensive fucks ups before its Baz's fault - the cross comes in unchallenged, 2 of our players fail spectacularly to mark or win the header that THB in particularly should be a favourite for, and then Stephen's is ball watching for the reboud. Its a car crash.

And then its also rinse and repeat for the rest of the defending that led to the other goals.

The baz haters then blame bazunu for the shit fest that is in front of him - when the error macca made is far far worse, and is a major reason why we didn't get to pens last night - instead had to come from behind to try and get back into the game. Reality is that we went from what should have been a 1 -0 lead to being 0-1 down in the space of half a minute. And the goal we conceded was yet another howler. Nothing is more unsettling for a defence than a keeper that can't be relied on to sweep up lose balls and provide reliable and safe distribution.

What is more frustrating is that we can play that well against Liverpool (albeit it rotated) but we'll likely go back to being disjointed and cack vs Boro.

Edited 18 hours ago by Saint86

[saintant]

25 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Macca is the worse keeper of the two. He's a liability that will give away goals or horror passes multiple times per match and without warning.

Bazunu's shot stopping isn't as strong, fine, but his all around play is far superior - he is better with the ball at his feet, he will sweep the back line and through balls, and his kicking/distribution is very good for the level we're at. That brings a calmness. Its the defences job to stop shots - the chance he parried back into the box vs Hull is 3 defensive fucks ups before its Baz's fault - the cross comes in unchallenged, 2 of our players fail spectacularly to mark or win the header that THB in particularly should be a favourite for, and then Stephen's is ball watching for the reboud. Its a car crash.

And then its also rinse and repeat for the rest of the defending that led to the other goals.

The baz haters then blame bazunu for the shit fest that is in front of him - when the error macca made is far far worse, and is a major reason why we didn't get to pens last night - instead had to come from behind to try and get back into the game. Reality is that we went from what should have been a 1 -0 lead to being 0-1 down in the space of half a minute. And the goal we conceded was yet another howler. Nothing is more unsettling for a defence than a keeper that can't be relied on to sweep up lose balls and provide reliable and safe distribution.

What is more frustrating is that we can play that well against Liverpool (albeit it rotated) but we'll likely go back to being disjointed and cack vs Boro.

So you could argue that if Scienza scores a simple header to a goal only guarded by a scrambling defender Liverpool would have been kicking off when Macca made his howler. We'd have been one up and people would have raved about Macca's goalkeeping performance and few would have been advocating a return for Bazunu. Thems the fine margins but I'd always put my trust in Macca ahead of Bazunu who continually rates bottom or near bottom for saves made and has for at least 3 seasons. With Baz in goal we go one down in the first 45 seconds because he doesn't stop the Isaac shot - even if he gets a hand to it his chocolate wrists don't keep it out.

Edited 17 hours ago by saintant

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Macca is the worse keeper of the two. He's a liability that will give away goals or horror passes multiple times per match and without warning.

Bazunu's shot stopping isn't as strong, fine, but his all around play is far superior - he is better with the ball at his feet, he will sweep the back line and through balls, and his kicking/distribution is very good for the level we're at. That brings a calmness. Its the defences job to stop shots - the chance he parried back into the box vs Hull is 3 defensive fucks ups before its Baz's fault - the cross comes in unchallenged, 2 of our players fail spectacularly to mark or win the header that THB in particularly should be a favourite for, and then Stephen's is ball watching for the reboud. Its a car crash.

And then its also rinse and repeat for the rest of the defending that led to the other goals.

The baz haters then blame bazunu for the shit fest that is in front of him - when the error macca made is far far worse, and is a major reason why we didn't get to pens last night - instead had to come from behind to try and get back into the game. Reality is that we went from what should have been a 1 -0 lead to being 0-1 down in the space of half a minute. And the goal we conceded was yet another howler. Nothing is more unsettling for a defence than a keeper that can't be relied on to sweep up lose balls and provide reliable and safe distribution.

What is more frustrating is that we can play that well against Liverpool (albeit it rotated) but we'll likely go back to being disjointed and cack vs Boro.

Call me old fashioned but Ilike a keeper to keep the ball out of the net and dont care if he isnt great with his feet. Macca did a wonderful kick out that found Armstrg and we were on the break

[Sunglasses Ron]

19 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

 

 

 

Eh? He was well behind the ball.

Sorry for the late reply, and apologies if covered since, but this is why I was asking it it was potentially offside:

I've lost track of the rules so assume 'no' due to some technical reason around phases of play? 

[Toadhall Saint]

7 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Sorry for the late reply, and apologies if covered since, but this is why I was asking it it was potentially offside:

I've lost track of the rules so assume 'no' due to some technical reason around phases of play? 

I thought he looked offside but I’m not sure like you re phases. In old money he was offside.

[Sunglasses Ron]

2 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I thought he looked offside but I’m not sure like you re phases. In old money he was offside.

Glad I'm not alone! 😅

[Football Special]

39 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Call me old fashioned but Ilike a keeper to keep the ball out of the net and dont care if he isnt great with his feet. Macca did a wonderful kick out that found Armstrg and we were on the break

Old fashioned 

And RIGHT ✅️ 

[trousers]

So, in summary, we're agreed then? i.e. it's fine for people to have different opinions as to who the least worst keeper is out of McCarthy and Bazunu? Glad we got that sorted

Edited 15 hours ago by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Sorry for the late reply, and apologies if covered since, but this is why I was asking it it was potentially offside:

I've lost track of the rules so assume 'no' due to some technical reason around phases of play? 

Chiesa on the wing is onside. 

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Chiesa on the wing is onside. 

Just about.... Given his top half is leaning in a lot, it's much closer than I thought when seeing it live on the TV. His shoulder is pretty much level with the grass line on the pitch, as is our defender's foot. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Chiesa on the wing is onside. 

I agree with you. The question is more around the eventual goal scorer being in an offside position?

[Toadhall Saint]

24 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Chiesa on the wing is onside. 

But the knob that scored is off, mind you,  think that’s old rules as today he is deemed as not interfering with play to which my answer is, what the hell is he doing in the pitch? By definition he is there to interfere.

[Whitey Grandad]

That was resolved decades ago. Nowadays it's ok for an attacker to hang around the opponent's goal and simply wait for his colleague to get to the goal line and pass it across to him.

I don't like it either. 

[Charlie Wayman]

14 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That was resolved decades ago. Nowadays it's ok for an attacker to hang around the opponent's goal and simply wait for his colleague to get to the goal line and pass it across to him.

I don't like it either. 

Jimmy Greaves was famous for that, they used to call him goal-hanger Greaves.

[BarberSaint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That was resolved decades ago. Nowadays it's ok for an attacker to hang around the opponent's goal and simply wait for his colleague to get to the goal line and pass it across to him.

I don't like it either. 

 

Isn't that part of the reason why they introduced the rule in the first place? To stop goal-hanging?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, BarberSaint said:

 

Isn't that part of the reason why they introduced the rule in the first place? To stop goal-hanging?

Indeed.  But originally it was anyone who was off side that was penalised. Now we have all this interfering with play business. 

Offside Laws and interpretations change more frequently than the wind.

Edited 11 hours ago by Whitey Grandad

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Offside Laws and interpretations change more frequently than the wind.

I think this is why a lot of us are having problems!. Watching in the pub I thought the eventual scorer was offside, and was just wondering whether it was a special Anfield rule?

[SW11_Saint]

23 hours ago, trousers said:

That's sort of how posting thoughts on an internet forum works to be fair...

Well, it was more an alternate reality he’d concocted to be fair…

[SW11_Saint]

15 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

If you don't, then it is no point explaining it to you

That old cop out… 🤪

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

15 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Better than standing in dog shit! 😁

We played a mid block which gave us space to get in behind them. The front five pressed really effectively. It was a shame that Jander had to go off, but Charles played well and scored his first goal for us. Jelert had a good debut, looked lively, and worth persevering with despite him losing his man for their second.

Macca played great except for one brain fart 38 seconds after Arma and then Scienza had very good chances to put us ahead. Game turned on that moment.

The ref apologised for being forced to send off Liverpool's second bright new hope so to make up for it he gave them everything after 86 minutes played.

All our team put in a good shift and put their hands up for a place in the team; but Downs looked and played like like some of the 11 year olds I played the occasional game of footy with at a US summer camp. 

Downes is awful. I watched a replay of the game and really concentrated on him. Never got involved at all. Infact at one point he kind of skipped a defender like My Little Pony. Oh, hang on. He does remind me of My Little Pony.

[Patches O Houlihan]

3 hours ago, Thereisonlyonemickychannon said:

Downes is awful. I watched a replay of the game and really concentrated on him. Never got involved at all. Infact at one point he kind of skipped a defender like My Little Pony. Oh, hang on. He does remind me of My Little Pony.

Are you talking about Flynn Downes

or Damion Downs?

Spelling matters this year 😉

[trousers]

7 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Well, it was more an alternate reality he’d concocted to be fair…

The "alternate reality" is Bazunu not being consistently at the bottom of the 'expected saves' rankings... 

Edited 1 hour ago by trousers

[Pamplemousse]

I don't blame Macca at all. Everyone knows he's not great with the ball at his feet. From where we had the ball, it should never have been passed back, we conceded because we played it too safe and should have been looking to play it forward. That's the problem. 

[SW11_Saint]

47 minutes ago, trousers said:

The "alternate reality" is Bazunu not being consistently at the bottom of the 'expected saves' rankings... 

I’d say that’s more of a fact. What I was challenging was an ‘imagined result’ featuring a player who didn’t actually play… 

[For the record, I think if Baz had played that gaff would never have happened, we’d have drawn 1-1 and won on pens 😉]

[OldNick]

16 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

I’d say that’s more of a fact. What I was challenging was an ‘imagined result’ featuring a player who didn’t actually play… 

[For the record, I think if Baz had played that gaff would never have happened, we’d have drawn 1-1 and won on pens 😉]

We will never know, but I wonder if he would have saved both those chances that Macca saved well