Tonda Eckert

[Disco Stu]

With Eckert, I'm seeing good coaching but naive management. I'm hoping some experienced additions to his backroom staff might improve things.

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

With Eckert, I'm seeing good coaching but naive management. I'm hoping some experienced additions to his backroom staff might improve things.

Yep, exactly how I see it, tactically not good enough but coaches players to do good things but when those things don't work he has little idea what else to do

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just read his comments.

Not sure I believe him about the desperation to win the game when we continue with three centre backs.

[Mboto Gorge]

Yep, bizarre to leave 3 CBs on and keep 5 at the back, yet send Bazunu up for a corner at the end. Almost as if that was a “look how much we’re trying to win the game” exercise for show. Smacked of that to me, anyway. 

Edited Saturday at 18:42 by Mboto Gorge

[Sheaf Saint]

13 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

Yep, bizarre to leave 3 CBs on and keep 5 at the back, yet send Bazunu up for a corner at the end. Almost as if that was a “look how much we’re trying to win the game” exercise for show. Smacked of that to me, anyway. 

We weren't playing 5 at the back.

THB pushed up into midfield and both Manning and Fellows were playing as wingers.

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We weren't playing 5 at the back.

THB pushed up into midfield and both Manning and Fellows were playing as wingers.

It was a bit square-pegs for no real benefit. We had no fluidity in those final stages due to those changes, as it ruined any shape. 5, 4 or 3 at the back is not the issue really, it was the lack of any real shape in those closing stages. You never saw us winning because we couldn't build up any momentum.

More poor in-game management from him I have to say, especially with a 2nd half against 10 men.

Edited Saturday at 19:06 by S-Clarke

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We weren't playing 5 at the back.

THB pushed up into midfield and both Manning and Fellows were playing as wingers.

It would have been madness to bring on an actual midfielder or attacker to play where THB supposedly pushed in to, I’m sure.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We weren't playing 5 at the back.

THB pushed up into midfield and both Manning and Fellows were playing as wingers.

Why not actually play a midfielder there?

[LGTL]

He’s exceptionally limited, and we rely on moments of brilliance from our extremely expensive attacking unit. We’ll not get close to top 6. 

Edited Saturday at 21:00 by LGTL

[AlexLaw76]

Another stupid appointment from SR.

but, that’s what they do

[Turkish]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Another stupid appointment from SR.

but, that’s what they do

There wasn’t anyone else in the world who would do better

[Dusic]

I waant bothered about keeping the 3 CBs because initially it helped us get total control as their only tactic was the physicality of Wright and then Simms and we dealt with that very well. They did absolutely nothing 2nf half which isn't always the case for teams down to 10.

Then later on the set plays were one of our main threats and those guys most likely to score.

Not convinced what we needed in latter stages was Fraser, Aribo or Robinson.

We had enough of the ball but lacked a presence to cross to which they knew so were happy to defend narrow and leave the space out wide.

Don't see that as some kind of big tactical error really.

[Dusic]

13 minutes ago, LGTL said:

He’s exceptionally limited, and we rely on moments of brilliance from our extremely expensive attacking unit. We’ll not get close to top 6. 

Will comfortably get top 6 IMO.

Why is relying on your attacking talent having moments of brilliance a bad thing?! Its the whole point of having them.

Besides, a lot of our goals under Eckert have been good team player rather than some kind of unsustainable worldy.

[The Kraken]

17 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Don't see that as some kind of big tactical error really.

Less of a big error,  but more evidence that we have a manager who is wedded to playing with 3 CBs on the pitch at all times. That second half ended up being ponderous, we were completely overloaded at the back and still had one or two holding midfielders constantly dropping back. If our argument for that is that we pushed a CB into midfield, I’m not sure that spells tactical masterclass to me. 

Out with the old, in with the old.

Edited Saturday at 21:31 by The Kraken

[Dusic]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Less of a big error,  but more evidence that we have a manager who is wedded to playing with 3 CBs on the pitch at all times. That second half ended up being ponderous, we were completely overloaded at the back and still had one or two holding midfielders constantly dropping back. If our argument for that is that we pushed a CB into midfield, I’m not sure that spells tactical masterclass to me. 

Out with the old, in with the old.

Yeah certainly seems keen on the 3CBs, but IMO it wasnt really a factor today and actually helped us completely dominate the ball.

Far bigger issue was that when we regularly worked the ball wide to the space we had no targets to hit in the box - more personnel than tactical

[Sheaf Saint]

54 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

It would have been madness to bring on an actual midfielder or attacker to play where THB supposedly pushed in to, I’m sure.

 

48 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Why not actually play a midfielder there?

I guess keeping THB on kinda made sense, because he can play decent forward passes and also has the potential to get in the box and get on the end of crosses.

The other option would have been to bring on Romeu, Bragg or Aribo. Personally I don't think any of those options would have improved our likelihood of finding a winner. 

There's plenty of reasons to criticise Tonda, but I don't think this is especially one of them.

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Another stupid appointment from SR.

but, that’s what they do

Unbelievable. 

We have a manager who inherited a team which had amassed 12 points out of a possible 39. Under him we have taken 19 points out of a possible 27. A rate which would guarantee automatic promotion if continued for a whole season. But this does not satisfy some of the whingers on this board 

"There is no plan b" 

" We only have one way of playing" 

"I don't like 5 at the back" etc etc

So what should we do? If Tonda is such a"stupid appointment " should he be sacked and replaced with someone who we will moan about and want sacked as soon as he doesn't win every game? Should we churn through 3 or 4 or 5 managers each season?

The football that we have seen in the last 6 weeks has been most enjoyable. Probably the most entertaining since before Puell. It isn't perfect . We are all entitled to think how it could be better. We don't and we won't win every game that we play but FFS why not try to enjoy the football , support the team and not come out with the nonsense that I have quoted above. 

 

 

 

 

[Zorba]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Will comfortably get top 6 IMO.

Our record against the 10 teams above us says differently with only 1 win in 10..

(D) Saints 1-1 Coventry

(D) Saints 1-1 Boro

(D) Ipswich 1-1 Saints

(L) Hull 3-1 Saints

(L) Saints 0-2 PNE

(L) Millwall 3-2 Saints

(W) QPR 1-2 Saints

(L) Saints 1-2 Stoke

(L) Bristol City 3-1 Saints

(D) Watford 2-2 Saints

[Patrick Bateman]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Another stupid appointment from SR.

but, that’s what they do

Nah I don't agree. Who on earth [that would come to Saints] would have more points than Eckert?? I expect a couple of strong loan signings in Jan.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

1 hour ago, Zorba said:

Our record against the 10 teams above us says differently with only 1 win in 10..

(D) Saints 1-1 Coventry

(D) Saints 1-1 Boro

(D) Ipswich 1-1 Saints

(L) Hull 3-1 Saints

(L) Saints 0-2 PNE

(L) Millwall 3-2 Saints

(W) QPR 1-2 Saints

(L) Saints 1-2 Stoke

(L) Bristol City 3-1 Saints

(D) Watford 2-2 Saints

Wow, that is piss poor.

[Wade Garrett]

Lost a bit of faith in Eckert today.  Leaving 3 centre/backs on against 10 men was ridiculous, as was taking Jander off and then just dropping Azaz back in his position.  Lots of pointless square and backwards passing as well.

Looks like another manager wedded to a single system.

[Wade Garrett]

6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Unbelievable. 

We have a manager who inherited a team which had amassed 12 points out of a possible 39. Under him we have taken 19 points out of a possible 27. A rate which would guarantee automatic promotion if continued for a whole season. But this does not satisfy some of the whingers on this board 

"There is no plan b" 

" We only have one way of playing" 

"I don't like 5 at the back" etc etc

So what should we do? If Tonda is such a"stupid appointment " should he be sacked and replaced with someone who we will moan about and want sacked as soon as he doesn't win every game? Should we churn through 3 or 4 or 5 managers each season?

The football that we have seen in the last 6 weeks has been most enjoyable. Probably the most entertaining since before Puell. It isn't perfect . We are all entitled to think how it could be better. We don't and we won't win every game that we play but FFS why not try to enjoy the football , support the team and not come out with the nonsense that I have quoted above. 

 

 

 

 

I did support the team.  I’m allowed to have an opinion, and nobody is saying sack the manager.  Ridiculous post, and I should know - I’ve had a fair few myself.

[Tamesaint]

7 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I did support the team.  I’m allowed to have an opinion, and nobody is saying sack the manager.  Ridiculous post, and I should know - I’ve had a fair few myself.

Alex is saying that his appointment was stupid. Stupid appointments tend to not last very long. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

Alex is saying that his appointment was stupid. Stupid appointments tend to not last very long. 

I don’t think he will be manager next season.

He is as wedded to a way of playing as Will Still was. We are now seeing teams adjust to how they play us.

also, I believe we experienced a new manager bounce (for once), nothing more. Of course we will win more games, we have much better players than most of the league, but we ain’t going up with Tonda and he will have done well personally to get us into the playoffs.

Edited 22 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[AlexLaw76]

8 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Unbelievable. 

We have a manager who inherited a team which had amassed 12 points out of a possible 39. Under him we have taken 19 points out of a possible 27. A rate which would guarantee automatic promotion if continued for a whole season. But this does not satisfy some of the whingers on this board 

"There is no plan b" 

" We only have one way of playing" 

"I don't like 5 at the back" etc etc

So what should we do? If Tonda is such a"stupid appointment " should he be sacked and replaced with someone who we will moan about and want sacked as soon as he doesn't win every game? Should we churn through 3 or 4 or 5 managers each season?

The football that we have seen in the last 6 weeks has been most enjoyable. Probably the most entertaining since before Puell. It isn't perfect . We are all entitled to think how it could be better. We don't and we won't win every game that we play but FFS why not try to enjoy the football , support the team and not come out with the nonsense that I have quoted above. 

 

 

 

 

Just giving an opinion mate. Like I did about Jones, Martin and Still…. Way before most on here.

 

Edited 22 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Sheaf Saint]

17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Just giving an opinion mate. Like I did about Jones, Martin and Still…. Way before most on here.

 

Just getting it out there that you hated Tonda before it was cool to.

You hipster you 😉

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Anything other than 2nd or finishing in the playoffs is a failure with the players we have.

Tonda has shown that the team can overwhelm the opposition. Needs to do that again in another good run.

Also please, just hire a specialist defensive coach to help sort out the defending.

Edited 22 hours ago by JohnnyShearer2.0

[CamSaint]

10 hours ago, Zorba said:

Our record against the 10 teams above us says differently with only 1 win in 10..

(D) Saints 1-1 Coventry

(D) Saints 1-1 Boro

(D) Ipswich 1-1 Saints

(L) Hull 3-1 Saints

(L) Saints 0-2 PNE

(L) Millwall 3-2 Saints

(W) QPR 1-2 Saints

(L) Saints 1-2 Stoke

(L) Bristol City 3-1 Saints

(D) Watford 2-2 Saints

This looks damning, except 7 of those matches were with Still in charge. His record: P7 W0 D3 L4 - 3pts from 21. Eckert P3 W1 D1 L1 - 4 pts from 9.

[benjii]

I'm not sure Tonda did too much wrong yesterday.

We needed a physical striker off the bench for the last 30 minutes when they were camped deep, but we unfortunately didn't have one. That being the case, it felt like a centre back was as likely to score as anyone else, which is what actually happened.

If we'd taken a CB off and put, say, Aribo on, would that have made us more dangerous? 

Really the only other option we had was to perhaps swap Azaz for a similar player or put Robinson on at LWB. 

Even at 11v11, we had three very good chances in the first half and should have scored.

I wish we would occasionally try a different shape, but I'm not sure it would have made much difference yesterday, with the other team camped deep.

[Tamesaint]

3 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Just giving an opinion mate. Like I did about Jones, Martin and Still…. Way before most on here.

 

I bet you hate Tonda's replacement already. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

It seems the debacle that was last season and the terrible start to this season has dimmed in the memories of some. Tonda has reversed this to large extent but it’s a long way back from the pit of despair we’ve witnessed and he’s still got a large contingent of the players that took us to that dark place. He’s doing well under those circumstances and deserves to see out the transformation completely when he’s got a decent back room staff (particularly a no.2 that can help him make better decisions) and the chance to exorcise some the dross in the squad.

Edited 19 hours ago by Saint Fan CaM

[saintant]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I don’t think he will be manager next season.

He is as wedded to a way of playing as Will Still was. We are now seeing teams adjust to how they play us.

also, I believe we experienced a new manager bounce (for once), nothing more. Of course we will win more games, we have much better players than most of the league, but we ain’t going up with Tonda and he will have done well personally to get us into the playoffs.

The problem is that many suspect playing 3 centre backs is a club decision and it does seem quite plausible because every manager plays this system whereas most good sides don't. There is something not right about the way we are welded to a system that doesn't really suit the players we have and has Fellows operating as a wing back.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

2 hours ago, CamSaint said:

This looks damning, except 7 of those matches were with Still in charge. His record: P7 W0 D3 L4 - 3pts from 21. Eckert P3 W1 D1 L1 - 4 pts from 9.

Good point.

Stills record there is pretty poor. Tondas a little bit better. 

Fingers crossed that Tonda can correct that.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

6 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

 Lots of pointless square and backwards passing as well.

There wasn't anyone to pass to most of the time because Coventry had parked the bus. It was actually players waiting for an opportunity rather than playing a pass to would inevitably fail. Either that or a lack of movement off the ball

Edited 17 hours ago by Ex Lion Tamer

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

There wasn't anyone to pass to most of the time because Coventry had parked the bus. It was actually players waiting for an opportunity rather than playing a pass to would inevitably fail. Either that or a lack of movement off the ball

Definite lack of movement.  They were like statues at times.

[Zorba]

6 hours ago, CamSaint said:

This looks damning, except 7 of those matches were with Still in charge. His record: P7 W0 D3 L4 - 3pts from 21. Eckert P3 W1 D1 L1 - 4 pts from 9.

Except.. QPR - The only win, were 13th when we played them.. they were crap and we were lucky to get that win.

The draw was against 10 men for virtually all of the second half.. and until that point Coventry were heading for the win playing with an already very depleted side. 

Arguably Still had the harder fixtures.

We’re still not finishing top 6.

Edited 14 hours ago by Zorba

[Give it to Ron]

6 hours ago, benjii said:

I'm not sure Tonda did too much wrong yesterday.

We needed a physical striker off the bench for the last 30 minutes when they were camped deep, but we unfortunately didn't have one. That being the case, it felt like a centre back was as likely to score as anyone else, which is what actually happened.

If we'd taken a CB off and put, say, Aribo on, would that have made us more dangerous? 

Really the only other option we had was to perhaps swap Azaz for a similar player or put Robinson on at LWB. 

Even at 11v11, we had three very good chances in the first half and should have scored.

I wish we would occasionally try a different shape, but I'm not sure it would have made much difference yesterday, with the other team camped deep.

Exactly people should actually look at what we were playing rather than an anti tactical 5. We didn’t have a big striker in the bench - we bought on Archer too .

The 3 centre halves up for corners gave us the extra height - one did score you know!!

THB was playing as an inverted wing back not defence and did well there better than his marking for their goal!

Comical reading some of the above but should be used to it by now- some couldn’t read a game if it bit them!

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Comical reading some of the above but should be used to it by now- some couldn’t read a game if it bit them!

Similar was said about the reaction to will still’s results early on.

 

[LegalEagle]

12 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Just giving an opinion mate. Like I did about Jones, Martin and Still…. Way before most on here.

 

Ok having an opinion Alex. But it’s not a good opinion as you’re wrong.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just listened to TSP, having not been at the game I wasn’t aware of a lot of what was happening yesterday:
- Jander taking goal kicks, making our even more non-existent midfield even more non-existent.
- Three CBs still at ninety minutes when chasing the win (allegedly) when the opposition have ten men.
- Bazunu being sent up front for a corner with five minutes left.
- Welington playing at RB, thus changing the balance/organisation of play.
- No change in formation or tactics to try and win the game.

I completely get everyone would’ve taken a point against Coventry pre-match, but surely with an entire half against ten men you go for it?

He think tactically he is very naive.

We really need to learn how to play with four defenders and not pass sideways.

Edited 8 hours ago by Willo of Whiteley

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, LegalEagle said:

Ok having an opinion Alex. But it’s not a good opinion as you’re wrong.

I refer to the below.

9 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Just listened to TSP, having not been at the game I wasn’t aware of a lot of what was happening yesterday:
- Jander taking goal kicks, making our even more non-existent midfield even more non-existent.
- Three CBs still at ninety minutes when chasing the win (allegedly) when the opposition have ten men.
- Bazunu being sent up front for a corner with five minutes left.
- Welington playing at RB, thus changing the balance/organisation of play.
- No change in formation or tactics to try and win the game.

I completely get everyone would’ve taken a point against Coventry pre-match, but surely with an entire half against ten men you go for it?

He think tactically he is very naive.

We really need to learn how to play with four defenders and not pass sideways.

 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

I refer to the below.

 

I’m assuming you’re in agreement? (Sorry I can’t be bothered to scroll up tons of comments) 😂

But football is pretty basic and tactics can be simple, and we pointlessly try to be too clever and edgy for our own good.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Willo of Whiteley said:

I’m assuming you’re in agreement? (Sorry I can’t be bothered to scroll up tons of comments) 😂

But football is pretty basic and tactics can be simple, and we pointlessly try to be too clever and edgy for our own good.

I think Tonda is (so far) a naive 1 trick pony, and our good run was the result of a new manager bounce (that we finally got to see).

He seems to have 1 way of playing, which is pass it about at the back, get the opposition to press us and let THB start an attack...that and/or hope for Leo sprinkle some stardust. Trouble is, teams are now closing midfield (why wouldn't they)...and we are still trying to do the same thing.

We of course will win games, but we do have better players than nearly all of the league.

But as a style/approach. We wont go up, and probably wont make the top 6.

IMO, Sports Republic will be looking for yet another manager in the summer

[Tamesaint]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I think Tonda is (so far) a naive 1 trick pony, and our good run was the result of a new manager bounce (that we finally got to see).

He seems to have 1 way of playing, which is pass it about at the back, get the opposition to press us and let THB start an attack...that and/or hope for Leo sprinkle some stardust. Trouble is, teams are now closing midfield (why wouldn't they)...and we are still trying to do the same thing.

We of course will win games, but we do have better players than nearly all of the league.

But as a style/approach. We wont go up, and probably wont make the top 6.

IMO, Sports Republic will be looking for yet another manager in the summer

You are a barrel of laughs aren't you. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

As much as I’m not always a fan of Alex’s opinions I think that’s a pretty fair and accurate summary above.

Our tactics is pass sideways, across the back, hope that Harwood-Bellis can play a low whipped ball to the CM who can then play it off wide, who can then play it down the centre. It’s too easy.

Yes he’s done ok and we’ve picked up points, but it was a low bar after Will Still.

There is no excuse for not being top two with the squad we have, and that’s the biggest frustration. 
We sacrifice an additional attacking player in either midfield or up front for the sake of one additional five yard pass across the defence or between the goalkeeper and defence; it can’t be surprising that we get to the opposition penalty area and there is no other Saints player there?

I think Saints will be looking for a new manager next season.

We were rock bottom last season and persisted with a back five. Talk about going down with no fight whatsoever.

We’re now in a league we should dominate and our tactics are to defend first, which we can’t, and attack second.

It’s incredibly naive, and IF it’s a Sport Republic thing of playing a back five then they should hang their heads in shame.

I’m not against Tonda Eckhart after our upturn in form, but if he is serious he has to try something new and have a plan B.

[The Kraken]

12 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

You are a barrel of laughs aren't you. 

Which bit is wrong?

Personally, I disagree with the statement that Tonda won’t be our manager next year. I also think we might just scrape the playoffs. Other than that, not sure what is objectionable.

Edited 8 hours ago by The Kraken

[Tamesaint]

18 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Which bit is wrong?

Personally, I disagree with the statement that Tonda won’t be our manager next year. I also think we might just scrape the playoffs. Other than that, not sure what is objectionable.

I think he is wrong because he has come to the conclusion that we have only 1 style of play after just 9 matches - in most of which we led so there was little point in changing styles. 

We need to give managers time to build at Saints. Deciding after just 9 matches that the manager is no good is not giving them time. As Blackmore and Tessem discussed on "Going home with Adam and Jo" Coventry's success this season is based on continuity. Robins was manager for over 7 years. Lampard decided not to change  things when he came in but instead built on what Robins had done. Perhaps we should try that approach. 

As Alex says "I am just giving an opinion mate". Time will tell. 

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

I think he is wrong because he has come to the conclusion that we have only 1 style of play after just 9 matches - in most of which we led so there was little point in changing styles. 

We need to give managers time to build at Saints. Deciding after just 9 matches that the manager is no good is not giving them time. As Blackmore and Tessem discussed on "Going home with Adam and Jo" Coventry's success this season is based on continuity. Robins was manager for over 7 years. Lampard decided not to change  things when he came in but instead built on what Robins had done. Perhaps we should try that approach. 

As Alex says "I am just giving an opinion mate". Time will tell. 

If he’d been hired by owners other than SR he’d be given more of a chance, and also the hideous style has returned of late. Even Bally would have been seriously questioned if the 1994 squad had returned to playing like Branfoot’s dreaded reign after a few games. It just smacks of a dictated style by Rasmus. 

[Sheaf Saint]

3 hours ago, LegalEagle said:

Ok having an opinion Alex. But it’s not a good opinion as you’re wrong.

Time will tell if he's wrong or not. It's still very early days, and the results he got in those interim games mean he should be given a decent chance to show his worth. But I'm far from convinced that Tonda is anything more than just another typical SR yes-man appointment.

It's not often I agree with Alex, but I fear he may be right on this. As much as I want TE to succeed, I will be very surprised if he's still in post when the players report for pre-season in July. 

[Tamesaint]

10 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

If he’d been hired by owners other than SR he’d be given more of a chance, and also the hideous style has returned of late. Even Bally would have been seriously questioned if the 1994 squad had returned to playing like Branfoot’s dreaded reign after a few games. It just smacks of a dictated style by Rasmus. 

I don't disagree. It almost seems that SR dictate the formation and build a squad around that formation. 

Lets hope that a fit Stewart returns or we somehow acquire a target man in the transfer window.