Saints 1-1 Coventry - Match Thread

[coalman]

It's also painful watching THB get to the edge of their penalty area. Stop. Agonise for a bit. Then turn and play it backwards. He should either be in the box trying to get his head on the ball when we have a man advantage or we should put on someone capable of unpicking their defence on. And I can't remember Downes playing a progressive pass all game.

As soon as they went to five at the back our crosses into Armstrong on his own or Archer who was apparently on the pitch were easily mopped up by their centre backs. While Coventry stopped offering threat at that point, so did we bar Scienza who looked lively every time he got the ball.

[Patches O Houlihan]

3 hours ago, LGTL said:

If you think playing a CB in midfield is preferable over playing a midfielder in midfield, then there’s no hope for you. #dinlowweb

For the last 25 minutes of the match this was pretty much the pattern. Coventry were pinned in. Fellows and Scienza and sometimes Manning feeding from the wings. Archer and Arma looking for scraps. THB recycling the ball, feeding Fellows and Azaz and then charging into the box if a header was on. There was no real space for intricate passes because Coventry were so defensive. Another creative player in the THB spot would arguably tread on the toes of Azaz and Fellows. In my opinion we were better to have that physical aerial presence able to pop into the box and then return to recycling and defensive/turn over duties. 

Does Oriel, Fraser, Bragg, Aribo, or Robinson do that any better? Maybe Robinson does, but he would have to settle into the game and there are 20 mins left. Whilst he can head the ball and does have some presence, probably not as much as THB.

Please give me your reasoned argument for why this is clearly wrong "playing 3 at the back", assuming that Jander needed to be subbed for a fitness reason.

[JCBSaint]

Lampard caused all that silliness at the end, initially I thought he was applauding away fans but obvs they are at other end now! I then saw him be a total knobber and keep giving it to the Northam and then to THB. He went over the top and that caused the furore 

what a prick 

[Appy]

We never seem to do the business against ten men, whereas we absolutely crumble after a red card. 
 

When you have the extra player you need to make the pitch bigger, move it wide and quickly. We don’t do that. 

[coalman]

5 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

For the last 25 minutes of the match this was pretty much the pattern. Coventry were pinned in. Fellows and Scienza and sometimes Manning feeding from the wings. Archer and Arma looking for scraps. THB recycling the ball, feeding Fellows and Azaz and then charging into the box if a header was on. There was no real space for intricate passes because Coventry were so defensive. Another creative player in the THB spot would arguably tread on the toes of Azaz and Fellows. In my opinion we were better to have that physical aerial presence able to pop into the box and then return to recycling and defensive/turn over duties. 

Does Oriel, Fraser, Bragg, Aribo, or Robinson do that any better? Maybe Robinson does, but he would have to settle into the game and there are 20 mins left. Whilst he can head the ball and does have some presence, probably not as much as THB.

Please give me your reasoned argument for why this is clearly wrong "playing 3 at the back", assuming that Jander needed to be subbed for a fitness reason.

I'd say that it would make more sense for THB to be in the box full time given that setup. Saw him stop, decide not to cross and go back so many times. Manning was also superfluous most of the time given Scienza's excellence down the left. Archer and Armstrong are never winning headers against that number of defenders.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Appy said:

We never seem to do the business against ten men, whereas we absolutely crumble after a red card. 
 

When you have the extra player you need to make the pitch bigger, move it wide and quickly. We don’t do that. 

Apart from winning the half 1-0 against the league leaders, all the balls into their box and shots we had at their goal.

[Appy]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Apart from winning the half 1-0 against the league leaders, all the balls into their box and shots we had at their goal.

How many clear cut chances did we create? 
 

Our goal came from a cross to a centre back after a set piece, we barely opened up Coventry at all.

[Convict Colony]

one of those games, some of the players look like they couldnt control a ball some times, we could of scored a few but cov could of scored more as well.

I liked quarshie today, he's raw but he has the attributes, i suppose the issue is on timing him v stephens in a 3.

Leo magical as always, jander and downes were nice and good saves by baz.

[Convict Colony]

11 minutes ago, Appy said:

We never seem to do the business against ten men, whereas we absolutely crumble after a red card. 
 

When you have the extra player you need to make the pitch bigger, move it wide and quickly. We don’t do that. 

Get Bonnie Blue in the team.

[Appy]

Rushworth in the second half showed what a difference it is to have a commanding keeper. He’s one of the best in the league, took time out of the game, commanded his box and made decent saves. 
 

Then there’s us with Bazunu and McCarthy. 

[LGTL]

4 minutes ago, Appy said:

How many clear cut chances did we create? 
 

Our goal came from a cross to a centre back after a set piece, we barely opened up Coventry at all.

We created the grand total of zero clear cut chances after we scored.

Theres some huge re-writing of history going on from some of the more desperate posters. We were largely shit after equalising. 

[saintant]

52 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I saw the first half and the highlights of the second. 

Happy to see a settled side. Tonda has settled on his system, and the players have to show themselves capable of getting into the side. It's not the best of possible set ups, but he's working with the squad SR have left him with.

Fraser hadn't worked out, and Wellington was the best option available there. We do miss Fellows though from the start, and it robs us of an important attacking outlet. 

Along with the settled approach, other sides know to stop that midfield ball from the back, and put pressure on Scienza. Even so, Scienza did lots of good things today, and we had opportunities. 

We overplayed around the back. Fine when we invited the press. But wasted when our midfield didn't show up to collect it, resulting in a number of incomplete passes.

Baz's distribution used to be a lot better. Don't know if this is just a dip, or if he needs to definite outlets a regimented RussBall system provided. 

Manning was nowhere for their goal. Quarshie could have tried to close down that space, or at least given less time to pick out the cross. But I do understand that it was Manning's fault for not being anywhere near where he should have been. 

We got an equaliser with a nice header. But our usual second half drop off, combined with our lack of cohesion when we make changes meant we couldn't get a winner. So, it feels like a missed opportunity.

Going into Christmas 4 points off the playoffs, and our form dropping a little, under another SR season.

No, it was Manning's fault for not kicking the ball into row Z when he had nowhere to go. He hit a blind pass that went to a Cov player and that was it - doesn't happen if he plays safe but no, he tries to keep the ball alive. Madness on his part.

[saintant]

56 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That wasn't a great showing really. Coventry were makeshift in a number of places and they still looked better than us for most of that 1st half, much more organised and you could see an actual pattern in their approach and what they're trying to do. They play with a purpose.

The red card totally changed their approach, as expected. That made the second half look more 'one sided' in terms of the context of the game as they sat back a bit more, but we didn't push them at all. We didn't have them on the ropes, we didn't pen them in, we didn't cause their CB's - who haven't played all season - any issues what so ever. It was really poor. 

There has been a gradual return to the pass backwards, pass sideways and around the back four in recent weeks. I don't think I'm the only one seeing that. I understand what doing it can give you, draw them on, move it quick and break the press...but you need to be very accurate and have very good players to do that regularly, of which we don't have. So it might work once every now and then, but doing it when the oppo is clearly onto it (Cov pressed heavy) seemed a bit daft. We played ourselves into 2 or 3 issues just from self inflicted pain. Their goal came from the insistence that Manning kept the ball in play rather than lofted it out of touch to settle the team down. Tonda needs more to his game, or should I say the club - as this feels more and more club directed whenever I see it.

I also think teams have sussed Janders role in our side and are giving him special attention - I saw it against WBA (second half), and against Norwich. Stick players around him, don't leave him in space, don't let him burst. It often leaves Downes as the free CM available for the pass. It removes all of that fluidity in our side as it was Jander who broke the lines and enabled us to drive. Teams are safer leaving Downes free as all he will do is pass it backwards, teams know there is no danger if Downes gets the ball.

A draw is a draw I guess, and in the context of all the other results, it doesn't cause us any real problems in the bigger picture. 

I'm still not entirely convinced by us though and I believe we just lived through a purple patch, a so-called manager bounce as they call it, and now we're settling back into our baseline. We'll be in the market for a new manager come May.

Personally I thought Jander had a good game today and we lost some cohesion when he went off to be replaced by Archer who contributed nothing.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

No, it was Manning's fault for not kicking the ball into row Z when he had nowhere to go. He hit a blind pass that went to a Cov player and that was it - doesn't happen if he plays safe but no, he tries to keep the ball alive. Madness on his part.

That was his first brain fart in. The lead up to their goal. The second was completely losing his man and just wandering around marking nobody and allowing the cross. I've seen better defending in my local park on a Sunday morning.

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Appy said:

How many clear cut chances did we create? 
 

Our goal came from a cross to a centre back after a set piece, we barely opened up Coventry at all.

3 all of them in the first half 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, lambtiss said:

You’re just a Shit Steven Gerrard was all that I heard …
 

seems fair to me

Was that it? What banter! What imagination! Fuck me that’s tragic, could at least have given him some about his missus getting rattled by half The ITV presenters 

[Football Special]

Cov weren't great.  Probably gave us too much respect,  will take a point but with more quality could have won it. 

Hopefully Fat Frank has an unfortunate accident on the way home,  Redknapp related cunt 

Edited 9 hours ago by Football Special

[Lighthouse]

29 minutes ago, Appy said:

How many clear cut chances did we create? 
 

Our goal came from a cross to a centre back after a set piece, we barely opened up Coventry at all.

We had 23 shots, 7 of which were on target and the entire second half was in their final third. By comparison QPR just scored 4 goals by having 12 shots with 6 on target, so I'm not sure what game anyone was watching if you think we didn't create chances.

Coventry are by far the best team in the league and they're clearly well organised. Liverpool only scored one goal more than Spurs, despite playing over an hour with a man advantage and Spurs being, let's be honest, sh*t. It's very rarely a walk in the park that some people seem to think it should be. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Was that it? What banter! What imagination! Fuck me that’s tragic,

There’s absolutely zero wit anymore. “Live in a shit hole” is another one, at least we didn’t resort to “small town in Birmingham”. Coming out the ground, the Coventry lot even managed to out nod our lot,  with a chant of “your mum is a Portsmouth fan”. 

[Appy]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We had 23 shots, 7 of which were on target and the entire second half was in their final third. By comparison QPR just scored 4 goals by having 12 shots with 6 on target, so I'm not sure what game anyone was watching if you think we didn't create chances.

Coventry are by far the best team in the league and they're clearly well organised. Liverpool only scored one goal more than Spurs, despite playing over an hour with a man advantage and Spurs being, let's be honest, sh*t. It's very rarely a walk in the park that some people seem to think it should be. 

Just having shots doesn’t mean clear cut chances. But I can see you have your heart set on thinking we were brilliant today. 

[lambtiss]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s absolutely zero wit anymore. “Live in a shit hole” is another one, at least we didn’t resort to “small town in Birmingham”. Coming out the ground, the Coventry lot even managed to out nod our lot,  with a chant of “your mum is a Portsmouth fan”. 

Even worse, I heard small town in Villa being sung ..

[die Mannyschaft]

52 minutes ago, Appy said:

We never seem to do the business against ten men, whereas we absolutely crumble after a red card. 
 

When you have the extra player you need to make the pitch bigger, move it wide and quickly. We don’t do that. 

Saints don't do anything quickly most of the game. Don't forget we play 9 not 11 as always players returning from injury, not match fit, on for one half only etc.

[Football Special]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s absolutely zero wit anymore. “Live in a shit hole” is another one, at least we didn’t resort to “small town in Birmingham”. Coming out the ground, the Coventry lot even managed to out nod our lot,  with a chant of “your mum is a Portsmouth fan”. 

It's really poor, atmosphere was dead for so much of the game, even when we were going for the win at 1-1 

[die Mannyschaft]

2 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

Even worse, I heard small town in Villa being sung ..

Coventry fans very quite on the train  back I think they expected to ease passed Saints 4-0. Not much banter more interested in Boro score.

[Turkish]

25 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s absolutely zero wit anymore. “Live in a shit hole” is another one, at least we didn’t resort to “small town in Birmingham”. Coming out the ground, the Coventry lot even managed to out nod our lot,  with a chant of “your mum is a Portsmouth fan”. 

That’s horrific. It’s takes a lot to out nod our lot. “Small town in villa” was our peak also singing “Liverpool” at Man U fans just odd 

[Football Special]

23 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Coventry fans very quite on the train  back I think they expected to ease passed Saints 4-0. Not much banter more interested in Boro score.

Spoke to a few after the game, we seem completely off the radar to them as far as promotion rivals are concerned,  probably fair enough 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Spoke to a few after the game, we seem completely off the radar to them as far as promotion rivals are concerned,  probably fair enough 

We ain’t a promotion rival

[Zorba]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Hopefully Fat Frank has an unfortunate accident on the way home,  Redknapp related cunt 

Bit harsh! ..hopefully you mean something along the lines of he shits himself after a bad McDonalds, rather than any sort of road traffic accident.

[Mboto Gorge]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

 

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We ain’t a promotion rival

Nope, we won’t finish in the top 6 with Eckert as manager, somewhere between 8th and 12th is more realistic and likely. He will regularly be found wanting in the games against the tougher sides that get decided by the most pro active and adaptable manager to game situations where every little edge gained makes a difference 

Edited 7 hours ago by Mboto Gorge

[Mboto Gorge]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

That’s horrific. It’s takes a lot to out nod our lot. “Small town in villa” was our peak also singing “Liverpool” at Man U fans just odd 

I miss the days of calling every ginger player on the opposing team a wotsit

[Turkish]

31 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

I miss the days of calling every ginger player on the opposing team a wotsit

Top bantz that was

[redkeith]

I think I have a solution for the issue of keepers falling over in the 70 something minute, feigning cramp or something else. 

If anyone can get cramp while just strolling around the penalty box , they must have serious health issues.  Anyone who does it twice in on season , like Nick Pope, should have to spend a month at St George's Park being observed by doctors for their own health. 

[Hodgey]

For me this game showed where we are - top two teams are utterly ruthless with opportunities, we aren’t. I do think we have enough in us to be top 6 though - and frankly it doesn’t really matter if that is 3rd or 6th.

The game reinforced what we already know. Whilst Baz actually had a decent game, if you swap those two keepers the result is different - we put some really testing corners in and their keeper responded every time. Also we still have no out and out striker - even the commentators were baffled why we put Fellows on when we never put players in the box when he crossed.

Archer needs to go in Jan too. There is a player there but he’s completely wrong for our tactics. Best for all to part ways.

[BarberSaint]

4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

That wasn't a great showing really. Coventry were makeshift in a number of places and they still looked better than us for most of that 1st half, much more organised and you could see an actual pattern in their approach and what they're trying to do. They play with a purpose.

The red card totally changed their approach, as expected. That made the second half look more 'one sided' in terms of the context of the game as they sat back a bit more, but we didn't push them at all. We didn't have them on the ropes, we didn't pen them in, we didn't cause their CB's - who haven't played all season - any issues what so ever. It was really poor. 

There has been a gradual return to the pass backwards, pass sideways and around the back four in recent weeks. I don't think I'm the only one seeing that. I understand what doing it can give you, draw them on, move it quick and break the press...but you need to be very accurate and have very good players to do that regularly, of which we don't have. So it might work once every now and then, but doing it when the oppo is clearly onto it (Cov pressed heavy) seemed a bit daft. We played ourselves into 2 or 3 issues just from self inflicted pain. Their goal came from the insistence that Manning kept the ball in play rather than lofted it out of touch to settle the team down. Tonda needs more to his game, or should I say the club - as this feels more and more club directed whenever I see it.

I also think teams have sussed Janders role in our side and are giving him special attention - I saw it against WBA (second half), and against Norwich. Stick players around him, don't leave him in space, don't let him burst. It often leaves Downes as the free CM available for the pass. It removes all of that fluidity in our side as it was Jander who broke the lines and enabled us to drive. Teams are safer leaving Downes free as all he will do is pass it backwards, teams know there is no danger if Downes gets the ball.

A draw is a draw I guess, and in the context of all the other results, it doesn't cause us any real problems in the bigger picture. 

I'm still not entirely convinced by us though and I believe we just lived through a purple patch, a so-called manager bounce as they call it, and now we're settling back into our baseline. We'll be in the market for a new manager come May.

 

We really need to move Downs and Manning on. I don't care if it's to a 'rival'; they ain't that good.

[BarberSaint]

4 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

For the last 25 minutes of the match this was pretty much the pattern. Coventry were pinned in. Fellows and Scienza and sometimes Manning feeding from the wings. Archer and Arma looking for scraps. THB recycling the ball, feeding Fellows and Azaz and then charging into the box if a header was on. There was no real space for intricate passes because Coventry were so defensive. Another creative player in the THB spot would arguably tread on the toes of Azaz and Fellows. In my opinion we were better to have that physical aerial presence able to pop into the box and then return to recycling and defensive/turn over duties. 

Does Oriel, Fraser, Bragg, Aribo, or Robinson do that any better? Maybe Robinson does, but he would have to settle into the game and there are 20 mins left. Whilst he can head the ball and does have some presence, probably not as much as THB.

Please give me your reasoned argument for why this is clearly wrong "playing 3 at the back", assuming that Jander needed to be subbed for a fitness reason.

Wrong? Because THB can't see a pass and the only time he tried the one that went through the lines there was no-one moving to it, but that ball is on a lot. Wrong because we just played 'pass it by numbers' rather than do something intelligent with it. Coventry defended well and pretty much kept Fellows out of it. Azaz wasn't up to much (as expected against the better teams) and it was more boring side to side passing far too often.

[benjii]

4 hours ago, Appy said:

How many clear cut chances did we create? 
 

Our goal came from a cross to a centre back after a set piece, we barely opened up Coventry at all.

We had 3 or 4 in the first half.

[benjii]

If Stewart was fit, or we had signed a striker other than Downs, we win that quite comfortably.

That's not Ekhert's fault, although I think we could have throw another forward on.

[Football Special]

4 hours ago, benjii said:

If Stewart was fit, or we had signed a striker other than Downs, we win that quite comfortably.

That's not Ekhert's fault, although I think we could have throw another forward on.

Yeah we needed someone to be a handful in the box for the all the crosses we were putting in , Cov were struggling but our options off the bench were limited,  their keeper played well though fair play to him 

[Football Special]