Saints Charged With Spying on Mboro Training

[saintant]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

I imagine many analysts will work remotely on a regular basis. If your sole job is to study video footage and send reports to the head coach, there's really no need to be office-based. 

Fair point.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Had a great time testing my new drone last week.

 

Gibbo clearly more interested in money making than having a secure training area 🙂

[Zorba]

The only honourable thing to do in this instance is to sack Tonda and all his immediate staff. We need to apologise to Boro and concede the second leg through forteiting the game. Pay a £500k fine directly to Boro as compensation. If we showed true remorse, we could drop to League 1, sell our first team so we could only play the U21s and offer to enforce a 12 month transfer embargo. We should also take a 10 point deduction, just to give the new teams around us an advantage because that’s only fair. 

 

..Or we could just take some pride in our club, smash the whinging cunts on Tuesday and get ourselves back in the prem where we belong.

 

I know which one i prefer.

 

 

..Been nice knowing ya Tonda! 😂

Edited 8 hours ago by Zorba

[Dman]

10 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Had a great time testing my new drone last week.

 

Asbolutely bonkers this is the set up for a professional, possibly premier leauge, football club. 

Simply put, they deserve it for being so stupid. 

[Tamesaint]

3 minutes ago, Zorba said:

The only honourable thing to do in this instance is to sack Tonda and all his immediate staff. We need to apologise to Boro and concede the second leg through forteiting the game. Pay a £500k fine directly to Boro as compensation. If we showed true remorse, we could drop to League 1, sell our first team so we could only play the U21s and offer to enforce a 12 month transfer embargo. We should also take a 10 point deduction, just to give the new teams around us an advantage because that’s only fair. 

 

..Or we could just take some pride in our club, smash the whinging cunts on Tuesday and get ourselves back in the prem where we belong.

 

I know which one i prefer.

 

 

..Been nice knowing y Tonda! 😂

All of that.... And also I think we should do what some smoggie twat reckoned and give £3million to Oxford United. I am sure that they deserve it. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Tamesaint

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Asbolutely bonkers this is the set up for a professional, possibly premier leauge, football club. 

Simply put, they deserve it for being so stupid. 

Spot on but this sensible and valid point doesn't fit the narrative.

[Dman]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Spot on but this sensible and valid point doesn't fit the narrative.

Bit of a broken drum about this, but there is a huge difference between rocking up to a public path and taking advantage of that vs breaking in and spying. 

Both are against the rules, but the threshold for punishment should be set considerbly different for each scenario. Much like it would be if you breach FFP rules by 100 million comapred to 1 million. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

31 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Of all the cheating and corruption in football (Finances, tapping up, transfers / youth transfers, actual ingame stuff like dodgy VAR / refs, diving, the list goes on...) this feels quite far down the list and the overreaction is hilarious and quite pathetic. This almost certainly happens very regularly, and feels like (if true) Boro removed a person and then thought  later "hold on, we can use this to whip up a media frenzy" as their own tactic.

What we should get is a list of which other clubs security teams have removed people from the premises over the season, but obviously that won't happen as doesn't fit the narrative / other clubs don't care. 

Succinctly put Disconnect. We've bought a few players off Man City. Buy a couple of their lawyers and they'll soon put this nonsense to bed.

Diving to get a penalty is cheating. Deliberately obstructing a player/goalkeeper from getting to a ball is cheating and much more likely to affect a game than someone watching a team practice. And since when has watching become a crime. If they want to train out in the open, then that's their lookout, but don't start squealing if someone takes a video and don't make it sound so precious. Every time a commentator says "and that has come straight from the training ground," I think yeah right!

Anyway, we've already got 46 games to work out their style of play plus an ex Boro player and trainers.

 

 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Succinctly put Disconnect. We've bought a few players off Man City. Buy a couple of their lawyers and they'll soon put this nonsense to bed.

Diving to get a penalty is cheating. Deliberately obstructing a player/goalkeeper from getting to a ball is cheating and much more likely to affect a game than someone watching a team practice. And since when has watching become a crime. If they want to train out in the open, then that's their lookout, but don't start squealing if someone takes a video and don't make it sound so precious. Every time a commentator says "and that has come straight from the training ground," I think yeah right!

Anyway, we've already got 46 games to work out their style of play plus an ex Boro player and trainers.

 

 

I mean it is cheating and someone has cheated- whether everyone at SFC knew about it or not. 

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Dman said:

Bit of a broken drum about this, but there is a huge difference between rocking up to a public path and taking advantage of that vs breaking in and spying. 

Both are against the rules, but the threshold for punishment should be set considerbly different for each scenario. Much like it would be if you breach FFP rules by 100 million comapred to 1 million. 

Not sure I agree with that. It's akin to someone nicking money from a charity donation bowl and then blaming the shop who left it there for making it easy to steal. Doesn't really make you less of a twat for doing it even if it's easier to do. 

[Zorba]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure I agree with that. It's akin to someone nicking money from a charity donation bowl and then blaming the shop who left it there for making it easy to steal. Doesn't really make you less of a twat for doing it even if it's easier to do. 

Have we been spying on the skates too?!… ffs!

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure I agree with that. It's akin to someone nicking money from a charity donation bowl and then blaming the shop who left it there for making it easy to steal. Doesn't really make you less of a twat for doing it even if it's easier to do. 

I get what you're saying, but that is a ridiculously extreme example. 

[revolution saint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I mean it is cheating and someone has cheated- whether everyone at SFC knew about it or not. 

Yeah, I agree.  We've (apparently) been caught cheating.  Doesn't really matter if 'Boro made the job of spying easier or not. Time to wheel out the whataboutery excuses is when we know what the punishment is and whether it fits the crime.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

I get what you're saying, but that is a ridiculously extreme example. 

Use a more moderate example if you like. If we've sent someone to go and spy on their training then we are the ones at fault, not the victims who may have a more accessible training ground than others. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, revolution saint said:

Yeah, I agree.  We've (apparently) been caught cheating.  Doesn't really matter if 'Boro made the job of spying easier or not. Time to wheel out the whataboutery excuses is when we know what the punishment is and whether it fits the crime.

Indeed. If it was us, no one would be blaming the design of our training ground for making it easier to spy on. The only thing we can hope for is that there is sufficient mitigation or that the club and their lawyers can conjure up sufficient mitigation to restrict the punishment to a fine or a few points taken off next season at worst. 

[Dman]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Use a more moderate example if you like. If we've sent someone to go and spy on their training then we are the ones at fault, not the victims who may have a more accessible training ground than others. 

I've at no point suggested that we aren't at fault. I've been pretty clear in that I believe we as a club knew and that we will face a punishment for breaking the rule. Rightly so. 

My point being here, there is level of wrong doing and the punishment should take into account the level of wrong doing. 

Illegally breaking into a training ground is significantly more serious than being a touch opportunistic and looking over a hedge in a public accessible area. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

I've at no point suggested that we aren't at fault. I've been pretty clear in that I believe we as a club knew and that we will face a punishment for breaking the rule. Rightly so. 

My point being here, there is level of wrong doing and the punishment should take into account the level of wrong doing. 

Illegally breaking into a training ground is significantly more serious than being a touch opportunistic and looking over a hedge in a public accessible area. 

You could argue that the use of professional recording equipment- if that is what it is and not hyperbole- constitutes the same crime as breaking into the training ground. I agree though, if it's just an intern stood near the training ground with a mobile phone and clip on mic and that's the end of the matter then that's a different matter. It's not like Middlesborough is round the corner though, this will have had to have involved a fair bit of planning and logistic to pull off so it appears to be a bit more than being a touch opportunistic. 

[Hawkswood]

37 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

All of that.... And also I think we should do what some smoggie twat reckoned and give £3million to Oxford United. I am sure that they deserve it. 

Yeah I saw that as well. Left me more confused than I was originally.

[Dman]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

You could argue that the use of professional recording equipment- if that is what it is and not hyperbole- constitutes the same crime as breaking into the training ground. I agree though, if it's just an intern stood near the training ground with a mobile phone and clip on mic and that's the end of the matter then that's a different matter. It's not like Middlesborough is round the corner though, this will have had to have involved a fair bit of planning and logistic to pull off so it appears to be a bit more than being a touch opportunistic. 

For what its worth, I'd agree. 

I guess we don't and wont know those details until after the charge has been confirmed and closed. 

I'd be amazed if it was anything more than a iphone / small video camera (go-pro etc). 

[Patrick Bateman]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

For what its worth, I'd agree. 

I guess we don't and wont know those details until after the charge has been confirmed and closed. 

I'd be amazed if it was anything more than a iphone / small video camera (go-pro etc). 

I thought we all agreed it was a Nokia 3210 he/she/they was/were using? 

[kwsaint]

Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

I thought we all agreed it was a Nokia 3210 he/she/they was/were using? 

I thought it was some kit they had been given from Mossad/IRGC/GRU?

[Dman]

Just now, Patrick Bateman said:

I thought we all agreed it was a Nokia 3210 he/she/they was/were using? 

I'm told its an adapted version. Peretz brought it from his former IDF days. 

[AlexLaw76]

Imagine the (online) scenes if we get a fine and/or a slap on the wrist 

 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Imagine the (online) scenes if we get a fine and/or a slap on the wrist 

 

The EFL know better than to mess with Steve 'el chapo' Gibson.

(as derby found out when he tried to claim for 40m and wound up with about 3m. NEVER MESS WITH STEVE GIBSON)

[saintant]

32 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure I agree with that. It's akin to someone nicking money from a charity donation bowl and then blaming the shop who left it there for making it easy to steal. Doesn't really make you less of a twat for doing it even if it's easier to do. 

Agree but this complex belongs to the multi-millionaire Steve Gibson. Having splashed out all that money to build the place you have to wonder why he couldn't find a few bob down the back of a sofa for some high fencing and decent security to keep prying eyes out. He obviously didn't see it as a priority so I'm inclined to agree with the view that he's brought some of this on himself. I bet there is plenty of security at his private homes.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Agree but this complex belongs to the multi-millionaire Steve Gibson. Having splashed out all that money to build the place you have to wonder why he couldn't find a few bob down the back of a sofa for some high fencing and decent security to keep prying eyes out. He obviously didn't see it as a priority so I'm inclined to agree with the view that he's brought some of this on himself. I bet there is plenty of security at his private homes.

Nah. I'm sorry but no one who wasn't a fan of the accused team would be making that argument. 

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Nah. I'm sorry but no one who wasn't a fan of the accused team would be making that argument. 

Yes this is futile nonsense.

"They left their back gate ajar so it's actually their fault I stole their motorbike" is a fucking stupid defence.

[The Kraken]

Excellent. Ant going for the “she was wearing a short skirt so she was obviously asking for it” defence 

[hypochondriac]

If you think about it, Middlesborough should be bunging us a few quid for exposing some holes in their security system. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Nah. I'm sorry but no one who wasn't a fan of the accused team would be making that argument. 

So you're a multi-millionaire entrepreneur and you own a football club. You build a complex which includes team training facilities and don't think to include some high fences and security. In this day and age that is plain dumb and I'm not suggesting any of this excuses what we may or may not have done. Just pointing out that there are other relevant strands to this even if we can't use them to exonerate ourselves. 

I wonder if security will be beefed up now - akin to locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yes this is futile nonsense.

"They left their back gate ajar so it's actually their fault I stole their motorbike" is a fucking stupid defence.

Where did I say it was a defence?

[obelisk]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

"They left their back gate ajar so it's actually their fault I stole their motorbike" is a fucking stupid defence

It is but "They left their back gate ajar so actually it's their fault that I stood outside and took a picture of it through the gap" would be closer to what happened.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

So you're a multi-millionaire entrepreneur and you own a football club. You build a complex which includes team training facilities and don't think to include some high fences and security. In this day and age that is plain dumb and I'm not suggesting any of this excuses what we may or may not have done. Just pointing out that there are other relevant strands to this even if we can't use them to exonerate ourselves. 

I wonder if security will be beefed up now - akin to locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

How is that a relevant strand? Just because spying is possibly easier to do at Middlesborough than other places has no relevance here other than the fact that we may have been in even more trouble had we tried to spy somewhere more secure. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

How is that a relevant strand? Just because spying is possibly easier to do at Middlesborough than other places has no relevance here other than the fact that we may have been in even more trouble had we tried to spy somewhere more secure. 

Which, if I haven't been clear, is my point. 

[RedArmy]

Have we been kicked out of the playoffs yet. 
 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Excellent. Ant going for the “she was wearing a short skirt so she was obviously asking for it” defence 

Again, I didn't say it was a defence I'm merely pointing out the fact that Boro's owner failed to appreciate it would be a good idea to instal high fencing and security at a facility where very valuable footballers train and should be kept safe plus the obvious risk of 3rd parties observing their training/tactics. Just saying they appear to have been a tad naive. It's ok for people to disagree but no need to suggest I've put it forward as a defence because I haven't.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, obelisk said:

It is but "They left their back gate ajar so actually it's their fault that I stood outside and took a picture of it through the gap" would be closer to what happened.

That'd be a poor way of seeking to justify the unjustifiable. 

Whilst a mountain is being made out of a molehill, the "it's their fault that they gave us the opportunity" approach is daft, and won't help us. 

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

How is that a relevant strand? Just because spying is possibly easier to do at Middlesborough than other places has no relevance here other than the fact that we may have been in even more trouble had we tried to spy somewhere more secure. 

It's a relevant strand because this whole story revolves around Boro's training complex.

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, obelisk said:

It is but "They left their back gate ajar so actually it's their fault that I stood outside and took a picture of it through the gap" would be closer to what happened.

Last time someone took a picture they were fined £200k and then the authorities tightened up the rules.

"Anyone could walk past and see it" is beyond irrelevant here.

[egg]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

It's a relevant strand because this whole story revolves around Boro's training complex.

Nonsense. The whole story revolves around doing something wrong, not the facility where the alleged wrong took place. 

I'm not sure you're doing yourself any favours here. 

[obelisk]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

That'd be a poor way of seeking to justify the unjustifiable.

Good job I didn't then.

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

Where did I say it was a defence?

Ok you're saying its relevant and I am telling you it is irrelevant. Utterly irrelevant.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Last time someone took a picture they were fined £200k and then the authorities tightened up the rules.

"Anyone could walk past and see it" is beyond irrelevant here.

And it's not like we took a picture because we liked the look of it. We took surveillance footage to then attempt to use that footage to gain an advantage that we shouldn't have. In other words cheating. 

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, saintant said:

Again, I didn't say it was a defence I'm merely pointing out the fact that Boro's owner failed to appreciate it would be a good idea to instal high fencing and security at a facility where very valuable footballers train and should be kept safe plus the obvious risk of 3rd parties observing their training/tactics. Just saying they appear to have been a tad naive. It's ok for people to disagree but no need to suggest I've put it forward as a defence because I haven't.

Right but this is a thread about SFC spying on the Middlesborough training ground. If you want to start a thread in the lounge about Steve Gibson and suggestions for how to improve his security at his training ground to prevent rogue actors from spying then go ahead. It's not relevant to this discussion. 

[hypochondriac]

I can imagine that the same people twisting themselves in knots trying to slightly downplay the cheating would be the ones frothing at the mouth calling for Middlesborough to be expelled from the league if the shoe was on the other foot. 

[Mattio]

17 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Have we been kicked out of the playoffs yet. 
 

We've been kicked out of the EFL pyramid, we'll be playing in the Premier League next season. The Hampshire Premier League...

[obelisk]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I can imagine that the same people twisting themselves in knots trying to slightly downplay the cheating would be the ones frothing at the mouth calling for Middlesborough to be expelled from the league if the shoe was on the other foot. 

Allow me to be the first that I really couldn't give a monkey's if the boot was on the other foot.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, obelisk said:

Allow me to be the first that I really couldn't give a monkey's if the boot was on the other foot.

I'd be annoyed about it but I'd be asking the club to use it as fuel to motivate the players to win on the pitch. The fact that many of their fans are so desperate to get us kicked out makes it seem like they don't believe they can beat us on Tuesday. 

[benjii]

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

Remember if we have done it before as long as it was more than 72 hours before the game thats ok. 

 

That only covers one of the charges... We'd still be in breach of the other charge (i.e. "acting in good faith")...