Saints Charged With Spying on Mboro Training

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Perhaps the argument will be the club are still expected to ensure employees operate within the regulations. 

How could they enforce that here? If he did it on his day off, how are they meant to know what he is doing, let alone stop him?

[Miltonaggro]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not if they've got less than two years service - which if the LinkedIn profile is to be believed then they don't.

No protection from unfair dismissal (at the moment) with less than two years service.

Could get rid of them tomorrow, pay a month's notice and move on...

Indeed and / or have a little tete a tete beforehand with a NDA agreed upon. What most of the Boro numpties don’t realise is the EFL committee has no legal power or remit, but Saints actions in resolution do. 

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How could they enforce that here? If he did it on his day off, how are they meant to know what he is doing, let alone stop him?

Difficult and complex area, but I’d assume the club might have to demonstrate that they’d provided some guidance over the ‘ethics’ of ‘scouting’ etc or show measures in place to completely distance themselves from it.

Many industries and professions have regulatory training to ensure compliance. Always seems it’s only partly educational, but also an arse covering exercise so that in the event of falling foul they can point out that they’ve done all in their power to prevent occurrences. 
 

But I’m probably talking out of my arse. 

 

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Boro claimed to have identified him from the Saints official website.

Whether that is believable is of course open to debate

There's only one analyst pictured on the official website. If it can be proved he wasn't there then surely there is no case to answer as their whole complaint against us is based on a guy who has an alibi 🙂 Maybe they should have got their facts right before shouting the odds.

[Midfield_General]

We obviously did it and are just working behind the scenes trying to get our story straight for whatever we figure will be the path of least punishment. 

The lone wolf story won't get us off completely but would have an element of plausible deniability which will mean Tonda and the seniors can stay clean, and we probably get a hefty fine but that's it. 

My guess would be that at the moment there is a conversation happening behind the scenes between the club and the analyst in question that goes something along the lines of "you take the fall, come out and say you did it off your own back without the knowledge of any seniors, take a two year ban from football and in return we'll sort you out with a nice fat pay-off that will more than make up for the damage to your reputation. Oh and sign this NDA which means if you ever talk about it to anyone we can sue you."

'Pin it on the intern and pay them off in the background' is the oldest trick in the book, because it usually works. I've seen it done plenty of times when the stakes of coming clean are too high, or someone in management has royally fucked up but is too valuable to lose. 

There's so much money sloshing around in football that a few hundred grand to take the fall and keep your mouth shut is perfectly plausible. And if he's really a young kid intern fresh out of uni and almost certainly without a pot to piss in, that could work very nicely for all concerned. 

If I was a betting man, that's how I would bet it will play out. And if I was in charge of trying to handle it, it's what I'd do.

Edited 1 hour ago by Midfield_General

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

We obviously did it and are just working behind the scenes trying to get our story straight for whatever we figure will be the path of least punishment. 

The lone wolf story won't get us off completely but would have an element of plausible deniability which will mean Tonda and the seniors can stay clean, and we probably get a hefty fine but that's it. 

My guess would be that at the moment there is a conversation happening behind the scenes between the club and the analyst in question that goes something along the lines of "you take the fall, come out and say you did it off your own back without the knowledge of any seniors, take a two year ban from football and in return we'll sort you out with a nice fat pay-off that will more than make up for the damage to your reputation. Oh and sign this NDA which means if you ever talk about it to anyone we can sue you."

'Pin it on the intern and pay them off in the background' is the oldest trick in the book, because it usually works. I've seen it done plenty of times when the stakes of coming clean are too high, or someone in management has royally fucked up but is too valuable to lose. 

There's so much money sloshing around in football that a few hundred grand to take the fall and keep your mouth shut is perfectly plausible. And if he's really a young kid intern fresh out of uni and almost certainly without a pot to piss in, that could work very nicely for all concerned. 

If I was a betting man, that's how I would bet it will play out. And if I was in charge of trying to handle it, it's what I'd do.

If the press and football pundits get the slightest wind of an NDA being signed they'll be all over it and will portray it as us admitting our guilt which would be fair enough. Think an NDA in these circumstances would be risky for the club.

[The Kraken]

The lone wolf theory doesn’t hold much water if the guy is a staff member. We’re to believe that he’s had a day off from work on a weekday, travelled hundreds of miles to the site of our next game on his own, and decided to do some impromptu scouting without telling any of his workmates or bosses. Sure, sounds believable.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

The lone wolf theory doesn’t hold much water if the guy is a staff member. We’re to believe that he’s had a day off from work on a weekday, travelled hundreds of miles to the site of our next game on his own, and decided to do some impromptu scouting without telling any of his workmates or bosses. Sure, sounds believable.

He'd have to be sacked if he did it as a lone wolf.

If he was under instructions from the club and if you were him, would you accept the sacking, the reputation hit to your career in football or would you expose the lie?

[Willo of Whiteley]

The amount of journos on Twitter scathing at Tonda and Sibley walking out the post-match presser is ridiculous.

They’re all retweeting each other now saying about lengthy bans, second leg at Boro, a bye for Boro etc. 
Big wankfest amongst the media for this.

[Football Special]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The lone wolf theory doesn’t hold much water if the guy is a staff member. We’re to believe that he’s had a day off from work on a weekday, travelled hundreds of miles to the site of our next game on his own, and decided to do some impromptu scouting without telling any of his workmates or bosses. Sure, sounds believable.

If anything we'd deserve a higher penalty for such a ridiculous defence 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The lone wolf theory doesn’t hold much water if the guy is a staff member. We’re to believe that he’s had a day off from work on a weekday, travelled hundreds of miles to the site of our next game on his own, and decided to do some impromptu scouting without telling any of his workmates or bosses. Sure, sounds believable.

Well everything about this whole affair is full of massive loop holes and contradictions including most of what has come from the Boro camp. My guess is there's a lot more to come out yet.

[Mr Saints]

Surely no chance he did it off his own back. I know SR employ absolute cretins but that would just be a whole different level of stupidity.

[trousers]

Nice touch by the club for the away end on Tuesday 👍🏻

 

 

[Football Special]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

The amount of journos on Twitter scathing at Tonda and Sibley walking out the post-match presser is ridiculous.

They’re all retweeting each other now saying about lengthy bans, second leg at Boro, a bye for Boro etc. 
Big wankfest amongst the media for this.

There's definitely a big PR issue where it feels like they're coming for us from all angles, need a no one likes us we don't care attitude 

[Willo of Whiteley]

It would almost be funnier if our press officer came out after the same question five times in a row and said “Are you really that thick? There is due process and it would be wrong to comment”.

I don’t blame them for walking out, not storming as journos reported. They were absolutely hounded with the same bullshit questions time and time again.

 

[AlexLaw76]

All media questions to managers/players can be classed as inane drivel.

just watch our own pre match pressers. We get Blackmoores questions, to be followed by House et al. Asking the same questions straight after .

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

No it doesn't "mean anything".

It means we know we cannot issue any denial because we know we've done something wrong.

Get over it.

 

I'm not sure the club knows what's gone on tbf. But they could equally just be focussing on the playoffs, simply acknowledging there is a charge, and getting on with the football rather than spending loads of time allowing this to distract us.

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

Boro claimed to have identified him from the Saints official website.

Whether that is believable is of course open to debate

I thought they identified him as had checked into the hotel?

To be honest there are a few variations of what happened coming out, it is probably helping our defence of the charge...

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

All media questions to managers/players can be classed as inane drivel.

just watch our own pre match pressers. We get Blackmoores questions, to be followed by House et al. Asking the same questions straight after .

But you can hardly compare that with the treatment Tonda was getting yesterday despite making it clear that he was unwilling/unable to add anything further. It was a witch hunt and, quite sensibly the club press officer put an end to the questioning.

[Willo of Whiteley]

The club also have to be very careful if they go down the “lone wolf” route that they’re protecting the individual involved.

This could be life altering for them otherwise! Hounded by fans and media, sadly the world we live in nowadays.

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

I thought they identified him as had checked into the hotel?

To be honest there are a few variations of what happened coming out, it is probably helping our defence of the charge...

Yet more discrepancies and anomalies. Did he stay at the hotel or not? If he did they'll have his details so why is it alleged Boro identified him from our official website?

I still don't understand why they didn't grab the guy rather than letting him escape if they thought there was any wrong doing involved.

More holes in this than a string vest.

Edited 28 minutes ago by saintant

[Midfield_General]

24 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He'd have to be sacked if he did it as a lone wolf.

If he was under instructions from the club and if you were him, would you accept the sacking, the reputation hit to your career in football or would you expose the lie?

You don't 'ask him to accept the sacking', you cut a deal with him in the background and pay him off in return for taking the fall.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

You don't 'ask him to accept the sacking', you cut a deal with him in the background and pay him off in return for taking the fall.

You don't think someone would uncover a massive payment to the intern and not infer obvious guilt from that?

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

You don't 'ask him to accept the sacking', you cut a deal with him in the background and pay him off in return for taking the fall.

Very dangerous game that. If it comes out the club is just pouring petrol on the fire.

[Scoobysaint]

Could it be that the lone wolf wanted a job at Saints and we refused it, or somebody at the club has pissed him off?  For payback, he went up there and got caught spying deliberately to get us kicked out the playoffs? 😉 🕵️  

[Midfield_General]

28 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

The lone wolf theory doesn’t hold much water if the guy is a staff member. We’re to believe that he’s had a day off from work on a weekday, travelled hundreds of miles to the site of our next game on his own, and decided to do some impromptu scouting without telling any of his workmates or bosses. Sure, sounds believable.

Plausible deniability isn't based on putting forward a theory that sounds likely, it just has to be a scenario which, even if it sounds very far-fetched, could have happened. Everyone knows it's bollocks, but unless you can outright prove it's a lie, it has to remain a possibility, and therefore you don't have to do a mea culpa and just admit everything. It's how OJ Simpson got off and is a standard tactic that's been used by lawyers and politicians forever. 

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

You don't 'ask him to accept the sacking', you cut a deal with him in the background and pay him off in return for taking the fall.

Where do you put that in the accounts that are publicly available on the Companies House website?

Also... why would he be happy even with a payoff if his reputation in the football industry is tarnished for life?

Edited 22 minutes ago by Matthew Le God

[Midfield_General]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

You don't think someone would uncover a massive payment to the intern and not infer obvious guilt from that?

You don't think there are ways and means of paying someone off in secret?

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

The club would likely sack him if he did do this all on his own. If it isn't true that he was acting on his own and he was removed from his role he'd likely have evidence the club was scapegoating him and they'd asked him to do it and he'd screw the club over for ruining his reputation in the football industry and losing his role.

So if they stick to the reason being a rogue analyst, they must be confident he won't out them as lying if that is what they are doing. Or they are telling the truth and it really was a lone wolf and what could they possibly have done to stop someone doing if he kept it a secret?

To be honest you were my first thought when I thought, who would do something like this?

[saintant]

Just now, Scoobysaint said:

Could it be that the lone wolf wanted a job at Saints and we refused it, or somebody at the club has pissed him off?  For payback, he went up there and got caught spying deliberately to get us kicked out the playoffs? 😉 🕵️  

There have been worse ideas put forward. I bet the Wrexham Hollywood guys wish they'd bought us - imagine the movie 🙂

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Where do you put that in the accounts that are publicly available on Companies House?

Also... why would he be happy even with a payoff if his reputation in the football industry is tarnished for life?

Under expenses 🙂

[wild-saint]

35 minutes ago, saintant said:

If the press and football pundits get the slightest wind of an NDA being signed they'll be all over it and will portray it as us admitting our guilt which would be fair enough. Think an NDA in these circumstances would be risky for the club.

Much like starmer and his alleged court super injunctions. Give the lad a guaranteed £100k pa job and a strongly worded warning for future behaviour    

[Saint_clark]

31 minutes ago, Football Special said:

If anything we'd deserve a higher penalty for such a ridiculous defence 

Don't, I had the same thought and for the first time I'm actually worried about the EFL nullifying the result of the semi final if we win.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

You don't think there are ways and means of paying someone off in secret?

Can't think of any - maybe he could claim he's won the lottery.

[Midfield_General]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Where do you put that in the accounts that are publicly available on Companies House?

Also... why would he be happy even with a payoff if his reputation in the football industry is tarnished for life?

Jesus christ

You don't declare it in the accounts 🤣

You get a third party to do it, it's not legal 

And how much you're prepared to accept for the trashing of your reputation is all part of the negotiation. But everyone has their price, and for a young lad straight out of Uni, that price could easily be the equivalent of, say, paying Alex McCarthy's wages for a few months. And almost certainly a drop in the ocean compared to potentially facing sanctions that could cost £200m or whatever it is for promotion.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case btw - I know as little as anyone else. I'm just saying it's a standard tactic and I've seen it done several times in other (corporate) environments so it's not some impossible conspiracy theory. 

Edited 16 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 minute ago, wild-saint said:

Much like starmer and his alleged court super injunctions. Give the lad a guaranteed £100k pa job and a strongly worded warning for future behaviour    

Good promotion to be fair!

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

Don't, I had the same thought and for the first time I'm actually worried about the EFL nullifying the result of the semi final if we win.

99% confident that the EFL will do nothing to amend us and the play-offs.

That would bring the game into disrepute because suddenly we could claim all sorts. We could claim everyone does it, total fabrication from Boro, Leeds punishment is this so why is ours that - all sorts.
Legal disputes would be ongoing for months or even years. The EFL can’t afford to deal with that in terms of time or money.

[SotonianWill]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Can't think of any - maybe he could claim he's won the lottery.

“Half a million dollars on Lucky Dan to win, third race at Riverside Park”

[James G]

It sounds like a cunning plan by Baldrick. Send a spy to check in and leave his name at the hotel on site, then hide in a bush 

[ChrisPY]

27 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

I thought they identified him as had checked into the hotel?

To be honest there are a few variations of what happened coming out, it is probably helping our defence of the charge...

If that’s true, it’s a significant data breach from the hotel. Our member of staff should file a case against the hotel owner.

[Midfield_General]

1 minute ago, ChrisPY said:

If that’s true, it’s a significant data breach from the hotel. Our member of staff should file a case against the hotel owner.

And in a dramatic plot twist, it turns out Gibbo owns the hotel 

Edited 6 minutes ago by Midfield_General

[AlexLaw76]

They are still going full on mental online.

plenty of vlogs and talking heads stating as a fact that the only punishment can be is the removal of Saints from the playoffs.

They have lost their minds

[CB Fry]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You don't think someone would uncover a massive payment to the intern and not infer obvious guilt from that?

It's the football equivalent of Boris Johnson giving that blonde piece a peerage a couple of years ago.

[gammon cheeks]

Any pictures of the so called ' Spy' Someone somewhere would have leaked this to the Internet. 

No joke one's lol 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Plot twist: Gibbo owns the hotel 

So Gibbo is implicated for allowing the individual to stay in his hotel 🙂

[Cumbria Saint]

Whilst this debate is all very entertaining and worrisome I think I'll just wait for a statement either from the club or the EFL.

[saintant]

1 minute ago, gammon cheeks said:

Any pictures of the so called ' Spy' Someone somewhere would have leaked this to the Internet. 

No joke one's lol 

The identikit shows someone with a big nose, moustache and glasses.

[Midfield_General]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

So Gibbo is implicated for allowing the individual to stay in his hotel 🙂

BURN HIM!!!

[Saint NL]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

So Gibbo is implicated for allowing the individual to stay in his hotel 🙂

He's going to sue himself 😱

[saintant]

Just now, Cumbria Saint said:

Whilst this debate is all very entertaining and worrisome I think I'll just wait for a statement either from the club or the EFL.

Probably for the best. Enjoying the banter and many of the posts on here is the only positive I can take from the whole sorry episode. There's been some good stuff on here if you like a bit of black humour.