Saints 4-1 QPR - Match Thread

[coalman]

Personally I still think Dobbin's goal should have stood though I also see how it was disallowed and I'd have wanted it disallowed if we'd been on the receiving end. The Saints of not so long ago would've stood, hands on hips, and given up and the manager would've said how it changed the game at the final whistle. Instead they came out after half time and delivered an absolute lesson to QPR who were lucky to come away with a consolation goal.

That being said we played ourselves into trouble and got away with it in the first half. Need to cut that out. We look so much better when we get after teams and press them higher up the pitch.

Edited 14 hours ago by coalman

[Thripp87]

So many different scorers in the league now, must be 12 plus already I would think? Most pleasing thing is 7 goals in 2 games without Larin. The issue in the window was not replacing Stewart which would have lead to an over reliance on Larin, if we can perform and keep him fresh and rested I can’t see how we don’t make top 2.

Superb value at St Mary’s currently. 
 

Edited 12 hours ago by Thripp87

[Sheaf Saint]

8 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The second paragraph is just a complete guess, you have no idea what they actually said to each other. The Lino doesn't have the depth perception to judge the position of Stephens, relative to the goal. The ref can't tell if anyone is playing him onside. They need to corroborate both these pieces of information to come to a decision, hence the discussion.

If the lino had seen the offside initially then he should have raised his flag immediately, and the ref could then have judged whether or not Stephens was interfering. The fact he didn't suggests he didn't see it at all.

The replay clearly shows it was only after Charles kicked off by pointing at Stephens on the ground and waving to the lino that the ref decided to go and speak to him. The ref might well have deemed that Stephens was interfering with the keeper if he was in an offside position, but the final call was pure guesswork which was heavily influenced by QPR's remonstrations.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

10 hours ago, Saint_lambden said:

Atmosphere was bizarely flat other than the Chapel kop which is getting better all the time. It's a month or so away, but already looking forward to Friday night under the lights noise v Boro. 

It was flat again, kind of expect it now despite our form, St Mary's is more an audience than support. It's OK having a sing along to the PA after but the players must be frustrated with the mostly placid nature of the crowd, particularly when attacking where, in most grounds a roar would build to drive a side forward, here the volume barely rises. 

Surprised to read praise for the Chapel, from the other end it looked and sounded comatose. Think I faintly picked up a "Southampton, clap-clap-clap" at one point where the QPR fans retaliated with "What the fookin 'ell was that". Heard them clear enough...well in the first half anyway.

The Northam tries but still not all singing the same thing a lot of the time - and that Bree chant is shocking.

Other than that, great second half.

Edited 11 hours ago by TheAlehouseBrawlers

[Lord Duckhunter]

Entertaining game. Very even first half, was impressed with them during first 45, but after the break we totally outplayed them. 
 

Bragg probably my MoTM, but I thought Manning had a good game as well. Everyone was a 8ish, no poor performances really. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, benjii said:

but really can't complain about it when the officials get one look in real time

Some common sense. It wasn’t some sort of conspiracy or anti Saints agenda. The same people moaning, would be praising the ref had they had a similar goal disallowed. It wasn’t like the Bolton one which was a blatant fuck up, no Var so the referee made a decision.

[Badger]

11 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Fair enough. Agree with you but I seem to remember there was a derby game with a silence and the skates inevitably couldn't stay quiet so I see why they do it.

That was quite different as the Skates disrupted a minutes silence for Ted Bates. Intentionally to show disrespect.

Yesterday seemed a genuine mistake (which should have been avoided), I thought by both sets of fans in the corner near the away section. But credit to those involved they did stop it fairly rapidly and it didn’t descend further 

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

It was flat again, kind of expect it now despite our form, St Mary's is more an audience than support. It's OK having a sing along to the PA after but the players must be frustrated with the mostly placid nature of the crowd, particularly when attacking where, in most grounds a roar would build to drive a side forward, here the volume barely rises. 

Surprised to read praise for the Chapel, from the other end it looked and sounded comatose. Think I faintly picked up a "Southampton, clap-clap-clap" at one point where the QPR fans retaliated with "What the fookin 'ell was that". Heard them clear enough...well in the first half anyway.

The Northam tries but still not all singing the same thing a lot of the time - and that Bree chant is shocking.

Other than that, great second half.

Completely agree with your assessment, with the exception of a few in the main the south half of the ground is silent, I had a chsnge of scenary in Itchen centre yesterday, we have some miserable old grumps in that part of the ground who seem to get little enjoyment out of the occasion, tutting and moaning their way through the 90 mins. 

Also large numbers streaming out to beat the traffic from 85th min onwards 

[sadoldgit]

SR have made a few poor decisions but fair play to them, they got it spot on in standing by Tonda and resigning JWP.

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

It happened last year and it will happen next year because an alarming number of people don't know how to follow basic instructions.

 

13 hours ago, whelk said:

 This is the problem with introducing applause as a mark of respect

Agree with this. Stop the minutes silence because some cretins can’t observe it properly. Then introduce a minutes applause and they can’t even adhere to that for the duration without starting a chant.

I remember the twats started singing Alan Ball’s name when applauding him. Well intentioned I know but Christ, you’re not asked to sing or shout just applaud. But there are morons who just can’t keep their traps shut for sixty seconds.

All in all thought yesterday was respected, but genuine misunderstanding by some. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Badger

[Badger]

11 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I've just rewatched the highlights and I also think QPR's goal shouldn't have stood because of a foul by Kone on Schlotterbeck in the build up. When the long ball went forward he led with his elbow into Schlott's face and knocked him off balance.

 

You really have to wonder what the purpose of the linesman (“Referee, Assistant” in new money) is if they just stand there like lemons (Bolton penalty, Dobbin’s goal, assault on Schlotterbeck. The latter could have been a red card with some refs had it been seen). 

[AlexLaw76]

That is an elbow, or a leading arm, to the face.....

[Sheaf Saint]

19 minutes ago, Badger said:

You really have to wonder what the purpose of the linesman (“Referee, Assistant” in new money) is if they just stand there like lemons (Bolton penalty, Dobbin’s goal, assault on Schlotterbeck. The latter could have been a red card with some refs had it been seen). 

 

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is an elbow, or a leading arm, to the face.....

Yep. He's not even looking at the ball. He's looking straight at Schlott right up until lifting his elbow towards him. It's soft, but clearly deliberate. 

I'm struggling to see how that's any different from the one that Downes got hit with a retrospective ban for last season TBH.

[Paul_B]

Great to see Bragg scoring and us getting a 4th goal at the very end rather than just sitting back and seeing the game out. 

[coalman]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I'm struggling to see how that's any different from the one that Downes got hit with a retrospective ban for last season TBH.

Clearly different. If the player on the end of the elbow is wearing a red and white shirt it's a fair challenge. Otherwise automatic red.

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Entertaining game. Very even first half, was impressed with them during first 45, but after the break we totally outplayed them. 
 

Bragg probably my MoTM, but I thought Manning had a good game as well. Everyone was a 8ish, no poor performances really. 

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I don’t know how you’ve arrived at that observation to be honest. Numerous times he didn’t close down an attacker, got caught upfield, was left in no man’s land in defence looking like a spare prick as usual. The worst thing for me though was the lead up to their goal - he lost the ball deep in our half of the pitch giving them possession because he’s so slow making decisions on the ball and then (watch the replays) he’s seen to just saunter back - and I mean slowly saunter back without a care - offering no support to his fellow defenders. No urgency. And they score, so no clean sheet again. If I was Peretz I’d be very pissed off with that lack of effort.

Yes, he had some decent moments too, but on balance I don’t think that can be characterised as a ‘good game’.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I don’t know how you’ve arrived at that observation to be honest. Numerous times he didn’t close down an attacker, got caught upfield, was left in no man’s land in defence looking like a spare prick as usual. The worst thing for me though was the lead up to their goal - he lost the ball deep in our half of the pitch giving them possession because he’s so slow making decisions on the ball and then (watch the replays) he’s seen to just saunter back - and I mean slowly saunter back without a care - offering no support to his fellow defenders. No urgency. And they score, so no clean sheet again. If I was Peretz I’d be very pissed off with that lack of effort.

Yes, he had some decent moments too, but on balance I don’t think that can be characterised as a ‘good game’.

Manning was very good and MoM on FOTMOB (which is usually pretty accurate). From a defensive PoV he get the least protection from the player in front of him in the whole side. Leo is probably the least effective from a defensive view, where as Matuski on the other side is pretty good at doubling with Bree.

We have tightened up at the back largely due to JwP, who does a good job getting across the pitch to cover the left side

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Manning was very good and MoM on FOTMOB (which is usually pretty accurate). From a defensive PoV he get the least protection from the player in front of him in the whole side. Leo is probably the least effective from a defensive view, where as Matuski on the other side is pretty good at doubling with Bree.

We have tightened up at the back largely due to JwP, who does a good job getting across the pitch to cover the left side

My view is defensive cover on our left (or lack of it) is a result of (a) Scienza being an overly attacking player who is very advanced high up the pitch much of the time as that’s his primary skill set, (b) Manning’s propensity to play high up the pitch when he doesn’t have the pace to recover his defensive position when we lose possession and (c) Manning’s lack of ability to defend competently when he is actually in position. Watch the number of times he’s dispossessed because he’s too slow making a decision to pass the ball - it’s quite a lot and for me explains why he chooses the ‘safe’ option of passing backwards so much.

[swedish dave]

5 hours ago, Thripp87 said:

So many different scorers in the league now, must be 12 plus already I would think? Most pleasing thing is 7 goals in 2 games without Larin. The issue in the window was not replacing Stewart which would have lead to an over reliance on Larin, if we can perform and keep him fresh and rested I can’t see how we don’t make top 2.

Superb value at St Mary’s currently. 
 

yes. it's 14 different scorers on my count.  Akachukwu came on as sub.in 86 minutes in the League Cup

tie at Colchester and scored with the last kick of the match.  It's very encouraging and in some way the 

absence of Larin (sad though it is) has forced Tonda to come up with a Plan B that seems to work.

Matsuki has really hit a strong streak of form and full backs like Bree and Welington show that not 

every shot from a defender ends up in Row Z.   Schlotterbeck's long experience in German football

has added a new dimension to the team at both ends of the pitch.

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My view is defensive cover on our left (or lack of it) is a result of (a) Scienza being an overly attacking player who is very advanced high up the pitch much of the time as that’s his primary skill set, (b) Manning’s propensity to play high up the pitch when he doesn’t have the pace to recover his defensive position when we lose possession and (c) Manning’s lack of ability to defend competently when he is actually in position. Watch the number of times he’s dispossessed because he’s too slow making a decision to pass the ball - it’s quite a lot and for me explains why he chooses the ‘safe’ option of passing backwards so much.

It's all about opinions but I think Manning is a great passer of the ball and is always looking to supply our forward players in positions that hurt the opposition. I'd put him second behind Azaz in having the ability to play these difficult passes to help us unlock stubborn defences. He's also very good at dead ball situations whether corners or free kicks into the box or having a shot. Not everything he tries come off because of the nature of what he's looking to achieve. I get that defensively he has his faults but overall he's a great guy to have in the side and I've noticed opposition fans often say how good he is.

[Whitey Grandad]

13 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

He was stood directly in front of the keeper, right in the path of the ball, he is quite obviously going to be a distraction to the keeper. The whole 'not interfering with play' rule was brought in to stop goals being disallowed for someone stood halfway to the corner flag, 30 yards away from the ball. A man stood dead centre of the goal, a yard out directly in the flight path of the ball is as blatantly interfering as can be.

The second paragraph is just a complete guess, you have no idea what they actually said to each other. The Lino doesn't have the depth perception to judge the position of Stephens, relative to the goal. The ref can't tell if anyone is playing him onside. They need to corroborate both these pieces of information to come to a decision, hence the discussion.

Just for the record here is the latest wording on offside. This has been softened up in the last couple of seasons and just standing in the middle of the goal is not enough any more.

"A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
  • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
  • challenging an opponent for the ball or
  • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball"

In my opinion Stephens is guilty of none of these unless he touches the ball in any way and I can only think that this was the subject under discussion by the officials. Nevertheless,  the process of reaching their conclusion was unconventional.  Ideally the Assistant will raise his flag if he thinks someone is in an offside position and may be interfering and then that part is sorted out between them. Having then come to a decision that an offence has occurred raising the flag is a bit wimpy. 

I can see how they arrived at their conclusion but it was all a bit of a guess. Anyone sitting where I was sitting could see that it was a clean goal.

No VAR thankfully and in the end it didn't matter. 

[disconnect]

Was Jander banned or injured / rested yesterday? Was surprised to see him not in the squad but must’ve missed some news 

[SaintBobby]

1 minute ago, disconnect said:

Was Jander banned or injured / rested yesterday? Was surprised to see him not in the squad but must’ve missed some news 

Slight muscle injury

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, disconnect said:

Was Jander banned or injured / rested yesterday? Was surprised to see him not in the squad but must’ve missed some news 

 

2 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

Slight muscle injury

Do we know if this is a reoccurrence of the injury that kept him out for several months, or is it a new unrelated injury? A tad worrying if the former... 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Do we know if this is a reoccurrence of the injury that kept him out for several months, or is it a new unrelated injury? A tad worrying if the former... 

Tonda sounded a bit downbeat when he was asked about it yesterday by Blackmore. 

[Matthew Le God]

You can watch the entire game here for free

Enjoy 😇

 

[Saint Pete]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Tonda sounded a bit downbeat when he was asked about it yesterday by Blackmore. 

It sounded more likely we will see Larin back first rather than Jander to me. 

[Disco Stu]

56 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You can watch the entire game here for free

Enjoy 😇

 

I've noticed some Championship teams do this. It's a shame we don't.

[Ted Bates Statue]

42 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I've noticed some Championship teams do this. It's a shame we don't.

Didn't realise this was a thing apart from Sunderland when they were in the EFL. Just found Swansea upload all of theirs too. 

Any others to look out for?

[trousers]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You can watch the entire game here for free

Enjoy 😇

 

 

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I've noticed some Championship teams do this. It's a shame we don't.

 

1 hour ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Didn't realise this was a thing apart from Sunderland when they were in the EFL. Just found Swansea upload all of theirs too. 

Any others to look out for?

I'd always assumed there was some broadcasting contractual reason why the club don't publish more than 10 minutes highlights of each match. News to me too that other clubs do it. Somewhat head-scratching why we don't do it when, surely, there's not a significant overhead in doing so. Anyone ITK that can shed some light on why we don't publish full matches...?