West Brom 1-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Saint_clark]

15 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

I can see that, but I don't think anyone is saying we are doing well, regardless. Therefore I don't see the need of bringing it up anymore. I think it'd suit us better just to remove it from the narrative - it sounds a bit whiny.

You don't think anyone is saying we are doing well? I assume that's a typo?

[Football Special]

30 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Good point but we simply have to beat Preston. They’re absolutely abysmal. 

Preston drew at home to WBA a couple of games ago, can't be complacent especially with our key players missing 

[Spoonman]

Decent point considering first half horror show 

[Harry_SFC]

10 minutes ago, Saint Pete said:

Yep, hopefully we are able to send him back to City and at the least get another more suitable loan in who has the capability to play as a lone striker in the way we need him to. 

Can't see it happening in January but Vipotnik or Gudjohnsen would be decent 

Edited 19 hours ago by Harry_SFC

[Midfield_General]

Good to see some fight and character after half time but the state of that first half, jesus. 

Second half better. Dobbin has to score that 1 on 1 and I wish Downes had put his foot through the one that their keeper messed up, but a draw away at WBA is a perfectly decent result and sometimes you just have to take the point and get the hell out of there.

 

[Football Special]

23 minutes ago, saintant said:

Also Mubama seems to have no upper body strength.

Yeah its weird. 

West Ham fan i know who always gives decent assessment told me when we signed him that he'd dominated teams at youth level thanks to his relative strength and physical condition but now he's in men's football will struggle to have the same impact, hard to argue with that from the games ive seen 

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Larin better not be going off to Canada in the upcoming international break.

He's not, not in the squad.

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Fv1KSQTgP/

Edited 18 hours ago by VectisSaint
Added link

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, VectisSaint said:

He's not, not in the squad.

Hopefully not an indication of something longer term.

[trousers]

 

 

[Harry_SFC]

3 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Good to see some fight and character after half time but the state of that first half, jesus. 

Second half better. Dobbin has to score that 1 on 1 and I wish Downes had put his foot through the one that their keeper messed up, but a draw away at WBA is a perfectly decent result and sometimes you just have to take the point and get the hell out of there.

 

They missed some very presentable chances too.

If we beat Preston (would be an absolute disaster if we don't) then it's another solid 7 point week. 

[Jack]

Got to agree with Tonda’s assessment really, we bottled it first half. Sat in and watched them play rather than giving them anything to think about. Mubama has shown he’ll be replaced in January, Edozie too despite a goal. Part of me thinks it’s a good point considering how bad we were first half, but really I think it’s two dropped as we should’ve been more front footed from the off. 

[trousers]

 

 

[sadoldgit]

Great that the tactical change at half time made a big difference in the second half, but why not make a change to the press in the first half when they were bossing the game?

Very happy with a point after that abysmal  first half and although we had some good chances to nick it, so did they. A draw is probably a fair result overall.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Jack said:

Got to agree with Tonda’s assessment really, we bottled it first half. Sat in and watched them play rather than giving them anything to think about. Mubama has shown he’ll be replaced in January, Edozie too despite a goal. Part of me thinks it’s a good point considering how bad we were first half, but really I think it’s two dropped as we should’ve been more front footed from the off. 

Take the point all day long. Don't see it as two dropped really. If they continue to play like that, they will cause teams a lot of problems. Happy to get the game out of the way.

[BS8Saint]

54 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The Dobbin who missed an absolute sitter today, as well the chances he missed against Bolton? If he’d taken the easy chances he’s been presented with this season, we’d have 4 more points. 

He’s getting himself in the positions where Muamba isn’t and his movement is so, so much better. The goals will come for him. 

[Jack]

14 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Take the point all day long. Don't see it as two dropped really. If they continue to play like that, they will cause teams a lot of problems. Happy to get the game out of the way.

Not with finishing like that we won’t, we’ll be letting teams off. Dobbin was a massive improvement which says how bad Mubama is. Frustrating one, WBA are in decent form but I don’t think they’re all that. Teams that want to go up automatically will find answers to what they’ve got and we didn’t. 

[sfc4prem]

Edit

Edited 18 hours ago by sfc4prem
Confusion

[sfc4prem]

49 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You don't think anyone is saying we are doing well? I assume that's a typo?

It was 😅

[Lee On Solent Saint]

10 minutes ago, Jack said:

Not with finishing like that we won’t, we’ll be letting teams off. Dobbin was a massive improvement which says how bad Mubama is. Frustrating one, WBA are in decent form but I don’t think they’re all that. Teams that want to go up automatically will find answers to what they’ve got and we didn’t. 

I meant West Brom will cause other teams problems, hence the word they.

[franniesTache]

I really don't understand what people expect, we've only lost 2 games all season, we've won 7 out of 8 home games, drawing the remaining one. We've got the joint best goal difference in the league, We've got the joint third top scorer in the league (despite having played less games than those around him), without the minus four we'd be top of the league, we haven't lost to any of the top 12 sides we've played, in fact more than that we've beaten most of them, and arguably we haven't even played at our best yet this season.

This side and this manager are a very good side, Tonda has them drilled to be brutally consistent, and i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we won the league.

And on top of all of that we're doing it with very little attention because our league position is false due to the points deduction.

The next few games are two awful sides in Preston and Derby who we should hammer, Sheffield United who blow hot and cold, and obviously the league leaders Boro. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say by the end of that run we'll be top two at a mininum.

This is not a normal Saints side, and Tonda is not a normal Saints manager

[Jack]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I meant West Brom will cause other teams problems, hence the word they.

Fair enough. Let’s hope so, they’ve lost to Boro, Wolves and Birmingham so far, obviously beat WHU who are in meltdown but yeah let’s hope they take some points off our promotion rivals the rest of the season 

[Paul_B]

2 hours ago, benjii said:

Sorry, to be clear, are you saying we should sack all of the eleven players? And the coaches? Or just the players (for a moderate approach)?

Apologies, I did mean the whole squad, coaches, back room staff, media team, tea lady and the owners. After the second half, which was moderately acceptable, they can all have a stay of execution though

On a serious note, how long can we realistically go on playing a bit shit but still picking up points? 

[austsaint]

17 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Lastly - Jimmy-Jay Morgan. Not sure we're missing much there, looked similar to Dobbin?? Almost too desperate to score too. 

Thinking the same.   Club has probably made the right decision with both JJ Morgan and Ronnie Edwards; both young, something about them, but on the evidence, no great loss.   West Brom fans might be thinking the same about Tom Fellows, especially given their signing of Issac Price who looked impressive tonight.    WBA look a genuine contender - first half they pressed the life out of us; ran through midfield in numbers and could easily have had a couple of goals before half-time.

But what a second half, you couldn't take your eyes off it. A complete turnaround with the excellent Downes running midfield backed up by JWP.  Azaz grew into the game, Matsuki and Edozie came alive, full backs played higher up the pitch as the possession numbers evened up, all of which relieved the pressure on Stephens and Schott. who were under siege for the first 45 minutes.     It was a good point on the road and clearly could have been all three had Dobbin lobbed the advancing keeper when put through by Azaz and if Downes had mustered the confidence to take responsibility for the shot rather than lay off to Dobbin.       

 

[BarberSaint]

21 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

I really don't understand what people expect, we've only lost 2 games all season, we've won 7 out of 8 home games, drawing the remaining one. We've got the joint best goal difference in the league, We've got the joint third top scorer in the league (despite having played less games than those around him), without the minus four we'd be top of the league, we haven't lost to any of the top 12 sides we've played, in fact more than that we've beaten most of them, and arguably we haven't even played at our best yet this season.

This side and this manager are a very good side, Tonda has them drilled to be brutally consistent, and i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we won the league.

And on top of all of that we're doing it with very little attention because our league position is false due to the points deduction.

The next few games are two awful sides in Preston and Derby who we should hammer, Sheffield United who blow hot and cold, and obviously the league leaders Boro. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say by the end of that run we'll be top two at a mininum.

This is not a normal Saints side, and Tonda is not a normal Saints manager

I expect us to win every game (really - pretty much, anyway, but I'm disappointed with the two losses because I think they were more self-enforced than deserved due to how good the opponent was).

[qwertyell]

19 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Club has probably made the right decision with both JJ Morgan and Ronnie Edwards

At the risk of being pedantic, we didn't make a right or wrong decision with Morgan - he turned down our pro contract offer to join Chelsea. 

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Lastly - Jimmy-Jay Morgan. Not sure we're missing much there, looked similar to Dobbin?? Almost too desperate to score too. 

He has scored some good goals this season and looks a decent player to me.

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

I can see that, but I don't think anyone is saying we are doing well, regardless. Therefore I don't see the need of bringing it up anymore. I think it'd suit us better just to remove it from the narrative - it sounds a bit whiny.

Hard disagree. Knowing how many points we have actually achieved is important. It certainly gives me more confidence to know we have actually performed better than some of the teams currently above us.

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

At the risk of being pedantic, we didn't make a right or wrong decision with Morgan - he turned down our pro contract offer to join Chelsea. 

Quite right, Not pedantic at all - Morgan opting to move on; Edwards moved on.   End result, not a dramatic loss for the Club.    On what I've seen of JJ Morgan, I'd rue the loss of Ballard more than him.

Another thing which stood out for me about last nights game, especially in the first half - what a difference having a quality goalkeeper makes.  O'Leary's distribution errors should really have been punished while Peretz kept us in it at times during the first half blitz.   The difference he makes is huge.

[Harry_SFC]

7 hours ago, BarberSaint said:

I expect us to win every game (really - pretty much, anyway, but I'm disappointed with the two losses because I think they were more self-enforced than deserved due to how good the opponent was).

Yep. Tbh there's no problem at all with coming away to West Brom and Birmingham and getting a point. It's drawing with the likes of Bolton/Lincoln and losing to Watford/Wrexham athat is so frustrating. 

[sfc4prem]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Hard disagree. Knowing how many points we have actually achieved is important. It certainly gives me more confidence to know we have actually performed better than some of the teams currently above us.

Fair enough. Still think it is a bit of a 'what if' statement and thus pretty pointless.

[Badger]

A draw there isn’t a bad result, and I’d have accepted a point on seeing the line up before kick off. Starting Mubama and Edozie was never going to be a goal fest.

First half was probably the worst I’ve seen us play under Tonda. The two already mentioned were enough to leave me hoping that’s their last run out for us. Others also seemed poor, Manning was all at sea.

At the end though it seemed like two points dropped after Dobbins failure to score when clean through. 

[swedish dave]

Highly forgettable first 45, with Matsuki struggling to get into the game and another chance to

see why we shouldn't rush to continue with Mubama.  After recent rave reviews Jack Stephens

turned the game on its head with a poor attempt to tackle his man and caused their penalty. 

I was almost ready to sub. Edozie at HT, but he became  our 15th goalscorer this season,

after we decided to play a proper game of football in the second half, and it showed.

Pity we missed the few chances that came our way, and Dobbin showed why he still isn't ready

to get a regular starting spot when he squandered our best chance late on. 

But it was still an away point , and we kept our place in the top group. 

[Midfield_General]

6 hours ago, austsaint said:

Quite right, Not pedantic at all - Morgan opting to move on; Edwards moved on.   End result, not a dramatic loss for the Club.    On what I've seen of JJ Morgan, I'd rue the loss of Ballard more than him.

Another thing which stood out for me about last nights game, especially in the first half - what a difference having a quality goalkeeper makes.  O'Leary's distribution errors should really have been punished while Peretz kept us in it at times during the first half blitz.   The difference he makes is huge.

Peretz made some big saves and as an all-round keeper for this level I think he’s outstanding, but just in the interests of balance his kicking isn’t the best. Must have put it straight out play 3 or 4 times yesterday and he also sliced a couple of others. 

But if he was perfect we wouldn’t have got a sniff of him at championship level, and we are lucky to have him. He’s won us a lot of points this season and has been one of our most important signings. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Toadhall Saint]

9 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

Good to see some fight and character after half time but the state of that first half, jesus. 

Second half better. Dobbin has to score that 1 on 1 and I wish Downes had put his foot through the one that their keeper messed up, but a draw away at WBA is a perfectly decent result and sometimes you just have to take the point and get the hell out of there.

 

For me this about sums it up.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 hours ago, die Mannyschaft said:

He looks like he has cramp when he runs.

Yes, his running is like a permanent jog which is going to press no-one. And for the poster that mentioned his lack of upper body strength, I didn't realise he was so slight. When Azaz stood next to him, he looked tiny.

Some people, like D.Downs, like Mara, like Carillo, you just know aren't cutting it, and unfortunately, Mubama is falling in to that category. Until we find someone else, stick with Dobbin or bring back Archer. In Ligue 1, Cameron Archer is third top scorer.

[Cabrone]

We gave them far too much respect first half and they really should have taken advantage.

Second half was even and could have gone either way. Can't complain with the point.

However we need to be more aggressive away from home. We have the talent to beat most in this league but need to start games with the right mentality.

[swedish dave]

8 hours ago, qwertyell said:

At the risk of being pedantic, we didn't make a right or wrong decision with Morgan - he turned down our pro contract offer to join Chelsea. 

JJ was typical of those " over-eager"  teenagers who want first team football now whilst fighting immaturity.

The same might be said of Kami Doyle who chose Brighton instead, but has since lost his way whilst Dibling 

briefly tried his luck with Chelsea, but then thought better of it and (thankfully) returned.

 

Like many of you I was also sad to see Ballard go, but that was purely down to confusion within the club 

after the many changes in the Academy staff, both on the training pitch and in the administration, and there

was simply no-one around who had followed his development since a young age. The newer staff saw

only a youngster who was fighting his way back from long-term injuries, and didn't expect him to improve.

You win some .. but get blamed for those who got away. 

[saintant]

That first half was as bad as it gets. What concerns me is that we can play so badly for 45 minutes when we have aspirations of automatic promotion. I'll put it down to a one-off bad day at the office hopefully never to be repeated.

West Brom came flying out of the blocks but we should have been ready for that. They pinned us back and collectively we retreated 10 maybe 15 yards and offered no serious press in numbers as identified by Tonda. Not sure why he didn't get a message on to the players but accept it's probably not easy to change things in the heat of the battle. It meant West Brom had it all their own way for the opening 45 minutes.

Up front we had Mubama and Edozie which almost equated to us playing with 9 men such was the weak performances they put in especially in that first half.

Thankfully we reached half time only a goal down and Tonda was able to adjust things and get us playing 10-15 yards further forward whilst pressing in greater numbers. It immediately turned the game like a switch had been flicked and we exerted a period of pressure leading to Edozie equalising. After that the game ebbed and flowed becoming a good watch with both sides having decent chances to win it. A draw was probably just about the right result overall and, in the cold light of day, looks a valuable one given the horrible first half performance from us.

[warsash saint]

Hats off to the thousands of Saints fans that filled the away end last last ... made some great noise

 

[Miltonaggro]

Really good away point in the end, Morrison has got WBA fit and competitive and they look like play off contenders on that showing.  Elephant in the room remains Spors' failure to replace Stewart with a like for like striker (target man) in the summer - world and his wife predicted that a knock for Larin would leave us toothless at centre forward. Mubama was a silly gamble and he looks way off the quality / attributes needed in this division.  Regardless, with the table settling we would currently sit top without the minus four penalty, and even with it are just one win away from second spot - a convincing win needed v Preston on Saturday.  Essentially, we need to keep doing what we are doing down to a sterling January transfer window.

[Midfield_General]

Do we know if there's a reason why Dobbin didn't start? 

He was just finding his feet at centre forward in Larin's absence, the team looked like they were working out how to use him effectively, and it's not like he'd played a huge amount of football this season and needed a rest. It's becoming obvious that he's significantly more of a threat than Mubama, and Mubama doesn't offer more of a physical presence, so it seems odd that Dobbin started on the bench when he was fit to play. 

Can't see Mubama's loan lasting beyond January, and to be honest I hope it doesn't. He's been given a fair number of chances now and beyond the goal at the beginning of the season, hasn't really made any sort of impact at all. I hope we are making an upgrade on him our priority for January. 

Also - those who were advocating for Tonda to drop Leo even when he's fit, in favour of Edozie, any thoughts? 

Edited 8 hours ago by Midfield_General

[macca155]

1 hour ago, swedish dave said:

JJ was typical of those " over-eager"  teenagers who want first team football now whilst fighting immaturity.

The same might be said of Kami Doyle who chose Brighton instead, but has since lost his way whilst Dibling 

briefly tried his luck with Chelsea, but then thought better of it and (thankfully) returned.

 

Like many of you I was also sad to see Ballard go, but that was purely down to confusion within the club 

after the many changes in the Academy staff, both on the training pitch and in the administration, and there

was simply no-one around who had followed his development since a young age. The newer staff saw

only a youngster who was fighting his way back from long-term injuries, and didn't expect him to improve.

You win some .. but get blamed for those who got away. 

Good post and nails the need for continuity in the academy coaching team.

People forget these are young boys. world at their feet, bursting with talent, and that feeling of immortality youth brings.

However they aren't the finished article, and need to be nutured very carefully. There are so many examples of what happens when you don't do that.

I've no doubt that Mubama is a talented footballer. We've seen glimpses, and his pedigree is solid, but clearly Saints is the wrong place for him atm. He needs to be sent back and another decent forward purchased.

Edited 7 hours ago by macca155

[Zorba]

1-1 disappointing but fair.

Over 20% of team skill missing in absentees. Tonda asking the team to sit back in first half. Players are obviously listening to TE which is a great thing and he massively changed that game at half time with the same players. But for Daft Jack, we go in at half time 0-0, shit happens. Lost count how many times Edozie lost the ball first half but was much better second half when Saints were on the front foot. Mubama needed a run out but had no clear service. Saying that, he can't win a ball, hold a ball up or be arsed chase anything down, so should have been hooked at half time. At least Loch Ness Dobbin is in the positions to miss his sitters - should have slotted that 1 on 1 near post and we're up to 2nd. Point away at a top 6 team - could be worse.. COYS!

 

[Patrick Bateman]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

Really good away point in the end, Morrison has got WBA fit and competitive and they look like play off contenders on that showing.  Elephant in the room remains Spors' failure to replace Stewart with a like for like striker (target man) in the summer - world and his wife predicted that a knock for Larin would leave us toothless at centre forward. Mubama was a silly gamble and he looks way off the quality / attributes needed in this division.  Regardless, with the table settling we would currently sit top without the minus four penalty, and even with it are just one win away from second spot - a convincing win needed v Preston on Saturday.  Essentially, we need to keep doing what we are doing down to a sterling January transfer window.

He's available.

[Willo of Whiteley]

13 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And yet he added more in the 7 minutes he was on the pitch than Mubama did for 70 mins.

Shows what a low bar it is

[saintant]

There's some sanctimonious twats on the Boro fans forum 🙂 They're accusing us of every type of on field cheating going and even saying refs should give opponents more protection or our dirty players are going to hurt someone. It's hilarious - as though their sweet, innocent little lambs don't ever get involved in the dark arts of football. Pathetic.

[BotleySaint]

I may have missed the news but do we know what's up with Larin and if hes due back any time soon?

[tdmickey3]

12 minutes ago, saintant said:

There's some sanctimonious twats on the Boro fans forum 🙂 They're accusing us of every type of on field cheating going and even saying refs should give opponents more protection or our dirty players are going to hurt someone. It's hilarious - as though their sweet, innocent little lambs don't ever get involved in the dark arts of football. Pathetic.

Ignore the whiny wankers and take comfort in the fact that they are worried about playing us

[Midfield_General]

They really are a special bunch. I thought northerners were meant to pride themselves on being rough and tough but they appear to be the wettest, most pathetic bunch of fannies it's possible to imagine. Do they ever stop crying and running to teacher? It's embarrassing. 

[saintant]

39 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Ignore the whiny wankers and take comfort in the fact that they are worried about playing us

Nah, I enjoy reading the desperate stuff they post trying to denigrate us - it's pathetic. All we did to them was give them the chance to appear in a play-off final even though they didn't win one of the two semi-final matches - they still haven't thanked us for that to this day. Even when gifted a spot in the final against Hull they still managed to completely bottle it 🙂