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Administration Assumption


Gemmel

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With the club not selling or releasing prices until April, does that dispell the thought we are on the very brink of administration?

 

I'm not saying i'm right, but i would have thought if we were deperate for cash or if either Barclays or Aviva were applying serious pressure, they we would be collecting money ASAP?

 

I appreciate that we don't know what league we will be playing in, but its hardly the first time, weve been in that situation and it hasnt stopped us before.

 

Judging by the fact that we didn't sell anybody in the transfer window and even added to our costs and now this, whilst i doubt the picture is very rosy, i really don't think administration is just around the corner.

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I actually think it could signpost that we are heading for admin.

 

It would be very bad form to solicit income if you were about to go belly up...

 

... but the income from season ticket sales might prevent us from going belly up - at least in the medium term (ie before Christmas)?

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To take in a load of advance payments if you are insolvent would be FRAUD.

 

Yep.

 

I interpret this is as a sign that the club is insolvent, and Roopey, Mikey and Co. have taken legal advice that if they do a March Madness and the club gets relegated automatically leading to admin, they are likely to end up doing a spell and being bent over a washbasin by a 7ft gorilla that goes by the name of Delilah, and they they dont fancy the idea much.

 

The article was terse, abrupt, and made it clear that discussion and speculation isnt welcome.

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To take in a load of advance payments if you are insolvent would be FRAUD.

 

Well we are continuing to trade at the moment which must mean we are not insolvent. My theory is that they are waiting to see what league we will be in to decide what price package to offer.

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To take in a load of advance payments if you are insolvent would be FRAUD.

 

http://www.darlington-fc.net/page/NewsDetail/0,,10339~1561752,00.html

 

 

It seems Darlington are still selling them, though the they apologise for there being a week delay and it was then that week that they went into admin and the website only lists this years season ticket prices, so may be they aren't :confused:

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In the event of season tickets being sold season ticket owners become creditors in an administration the same as everyone else who is owed money by the club . However it is a protected debt as it has been raised on pre-sales so therefore the administrator normally ring fences that money to protect season ticket holders interest .

 

Season ticket sales go towards the payment of the debt on the bond to Norwich union as it is tied as payment to that revenue coming in.

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I actually think it could signpost that we are heading for admin.

 

It would be very bad form to solicit income if you were about to go belly up...

 

Somebody posted on here that this idea COULD have been a ruse to buy us extra time with the bank. They would have taken the ST early bird money and simply reduced the overdraft giving us no benefit from the cash. Possibly still leading to admin.

 

That seems sensible to me

 

The idea that nasty Rupe's may have pulled a fast one on the bank by making them wait could have bought us time, what for I have no idea.

 

It is almost smart - we have a better chance of knowing what League we will be in and can price accordingly, not to mention avoiding the pain of people paying and "becoming creditors" if we went into admin early.

 

Now where's the yacht.......

 

oh

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or it could be the choice of -

a) taking the money early and then going into administration. The money collected gets soaked up by the administrator.

 

b) dont collect the money. go into administration. Buy the shares cheapley off the administrator and then collecting the new seasn ticket money in the summer once the new company is set up.

 

Just playign devil's advocate

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They won't get much money in the summer if b).

 

In League 1 with -10 pts and ALL decent players gone.

 

£1.5 million won't go far.

 

Well it appears that will be the case. Those on big contracts, including KD, have been told they're offski in the summer, regardless............or so I'm told.

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I really think that continued concerns about Admin are unfounded.

 

I doubt we would go into admin even if we were relegated.

 

The whole strategy of the board seems to have been to make the club solvent, going forward, whether relegated or not. Clearly football success has taken a backseat to cost saving; I don't see how anyone can possibly argue with this premise. IMO Wilde and Lowe came back in to make the club sustainable, bugger what division it is in in the short term. I disagree with their strategy and think they have missed the point. I disagree with the notion that a football club should be run for the benefit of a few small-time shareholders. I don't doubt, however, that they have slashed costs to the extent that our cash outflow is now such that the relevant bank will want to continue supporting us.

 

It is worth noting that we only need to find about £3m a year to pay what we owe to Barclays and Aviva - there is nothing in it for them to wind us up unless they think we can't find £3m a year or unless they think our position is irretrievably bleak. Bear in mind that they couldn't care less if we're in League 1 or not, as long as we have this circa £3m and we're not on a massive downward spiral financially.

Edited by benjii
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what no conspiracy? are you mad?;)

 

Nick the post wasnt about a consipiracy theory, it was more of a positive post!

 

But anyway as for the delay being down to not knowing what league we'd be in, on the umteem times we've been in the same position, it has never stopped us before ;)

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But anyway as for the delay being down to not knowing what league we'd be in, on the umteem times we've been in the same position, it has never stopped us before ;)

 

You're right with regards the last relegation & season tickets, but even though I didn't agree with the reasoning, you could at least see they thought they had a justification, in that even if we went down the effective price per match reduced because we had 4 extra games each season.

 

Perhaps it is solely because they realise that people won't renew until our fate is sealed and supporters will be looking for a price reduction if we drop down a division.

 

On another point, our payment on the "mortgage" is made every August, so that's not a pressing commitment, and I'm sure I also got a snippet from somewhere that we had renegotiated the payments on the loan anyway (never had that confirmed, but the half year accounts may show this).

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Nick the post wasnt about a consipiracy theory, it was more of a positive post!

 

But anyway as for the delay being down to not knowing what league we'd be in, on the umteem times we've been in the same position, it has never stopped us before ;)

Yes but we kept prices the same when going down to CCC [price freeze instead of increase - woopeee!] and no one will put up with that cr*p in League one ;)

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To take in a load of advance payments if you are insolvent would be FRAUD.

 

That's complete rubbish, if the club went into admin they would still play football matches just like every other club that has gone into admin. If you've already bought a ticket you can still use it at the same games wether the club is admin or not.

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You're right with regards the last relegation & season tickets, but even though I didn't agree with the reasoning, you could at least see they thought they had a justification, in that even if we went down the effective price per match reduced because we had 4 extra games each season.

 

Perhaps it is solely because they realise that people won't renew until our fate is sealed and supporters will be looking for a price reduction if we drop down a division.

 

On another point, our payment on the "mortgage" is made every August, so that's not a pressing commitment, and I'm sure I also got a snippet from somewhere that we had renegotiated the payments on the loan anyway (never had that confirmed, but the half year accounts may show this).

 

Fair points UM,

I am certainly not claiming to be any sort of expert when it comes to these things and still hope that I am right, in it being a positive sign, i guess only time will tell. As for the mortgage payment, you are definatley right and lowe acknowledged it at the AGM and cited the reason for the delay in calling it, down to the fact that they were waiting for this to be approved.

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I should point out that relegation doesn't automatically equal administration.

 

The amount of revenue available in League One isn't much different to the revenue available in the Championship. You just don't get shown on TV as much - given we've only been shown 6 times this season, that's not a massive shortfall to make up.

 

Clearly there would probably be a drop in attendances if prices weren't reduced in line with the drop in standard, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're definitely destined for administration.

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I should point out that relegation doesn't automatically equal administration.

 

The amount of revenue available in League One isn't much different to the revenue available in the Championship. You just don't get shown on TV as much - given we've only been shown 6 times this season, that's not a massive shortfall to make up.

 

Clearly there would probably be a drop in attendances if prices weren't reduced in line with the drop in standard, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're definitely destined for administration.

 

a lot of logic in that. Hopefully we have some stability now for either division

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The gulf between 2 and 3 is worse than 1 and 2 and that was justified with the extra games. Maybe they know they couldn't spin their way out of this one and the price will have to reflect the diviision.

 

However if they really wanted the money now they would try a spin it of they would collect in two lumps, one now and a later balance payement reflecting the div we are in.

 

There is a motive behind everything Lowe does and its not normally for the benefit of the fans. Time will tell.

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The gulf between 2 and 3 is worse than 1 and 2 and that was justified with the extra games. Maybe they know they couldn't spin their way out of this one and the price will have to reflect the diviision.

 

However if they really wanted the money now they would try a spin it of they would collect in two lumps, one now and a later balance payement reflecting the div we are in.

 

There is a motive behind everything Lowe does and its not normally for the benefit of the fans. Time will tell.

 

Trying to work out what you are saying here. We play 46 games in the ccc , if we get relegated we play 46 games :confused:

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I should point out that relegation doesn't automatically equal administration.

 

The amount of revenue available in League One isn't much different to the revenue available in the Championship. You just don't get shown on TV as much - given we've only been shown 6 times this season, that's not a massive shortfall to make up.

 

Clearly there would probably be a drop in attendances if prices weren't reduced in line with the drop in standard, but it doesn't necessarily mean we're definitely destined for administration.

 

This assumption bypasses so many factlets as to render it meaningless. For example, none of our decent players will want Third Division football, but with very little bargaining power, those not coming to the end of their contract will be gone for a song. The team will play even bloody worse against the even bigger, even more brutal and even less skilled men in other teams in Division Three, our results will get worse, and attendances will plummet in combination with the pride that will prevent many from watching Div. 3 football.

 

I am of the opinion that admin will follow relegation as night follows day.

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Trying to work out what you are saying here. We play 46 games in the ccc , if we get relegated we play 46 games :confused:

 

Didn't explain myself well, the gulf in quality between 1 & 2 was overcome by the fact we would be playing more games in div 2, so they could keep the price the same. As we would be playing the same amount of games in 3 as we do in 2 they have no excuse/reason to justify keeping the st the same price. Hence why they are waiting to see what div we are in first before setting the price of the st.

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http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11438

 

It says in the article " given our current league status the club will delay announcing season ticket prices until April." That says to me that the price for season tickets will reflect what league we are in and as we are in limbo the details are not available.

And I think that that is the simple fact. There is one heck of a lot of wild speculation going on in this thread.

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http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=11438

 

It says in the article " given our current league status the club will delay announcing season ticket prices until April." That says to me that the price for season tickets will reflect what league we are in and as we are in limbo the details are not available.

 

Which begs the question why we didn't delay season ticket sales this time last year when our league status was equally uncertain? The implication being that our financial predicament is playing more of a factor in the decision to defer sales this year than it did last year. Perhaps.

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I've always mainained that Lowe and cronies will not sell via administration because they could potentially lose out. I'm going to stick with that.

 

Can someone say when we would have to go into admin by this season before the points deduction gets carried through to next season? I think that's relevant to this debate.

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I've always mainained that Lowe and cronies will not sell via administration because they could potentially lose out. I'm going to stick with that.

 

Can someone say when we would have to go into admin by this season before the points deduction gets carried through to next season? I think that's relevant to this debate.

 

I believe it's the third week of March. Not sure of exact date....20 something....almost helpful!

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I believe it's the third week of March. Not sure of exact date....20 something....almost helpful!

It's the third Thursday in March, so the 19th this year.

 

Again, what's different this year to last year?

If I remember rightly, we weren't in the relegation zone until the final week or two of the season, and until mid-March we didn't really look in that much trouble.

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It's the third Thursday in March, so the 19th this year.

 

 

If I remember rightly, we weren't in the relegation zone until the final week or two of the season, and until mid-March we didn't really look in that much trouble.

 

Cool, cheers. The mists of time are obviously playing tricks on my mind. :)

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We are in a much worse position now than we were last March. We weren't in the relegation zone at all last season until about two weeks from the end.

 

In other words, our position deteriorated under Pearson? Whoops, wrong thread Trousers, stop stirring you naughty boy...;)

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I actually think it could signpost that we are heading for admin.

 

It would be very bad form to solicit income if you were about to go belly up...

 

You are right LTC, it is a very clear sign that administration is imminent; club people are scared to say the words "We will definitely be in Division III in 2009/10" so as not to empty the stadium for the last five games. At the ground on Saturday there was a great deal of talk of 16th March being the announcement date.

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