Endurance

Can we maintain this high pressing style for the season?

Every televised game you hear the same thing "Can they maintain this energy and pressing for the 90" we have shown a few times that we can.

However, can we realistically maintain this for a full season? We all saw what happened end of last season (4 points from our last 6 games) and players exhausted.

Squad game - but will be tough to keep this high intensity game going. Would expect the majority of our key players to be rested in the cup - and kept for the league games. If we're tiring come January, you may see a few more additions too to bulk the squad up a bit more. We do have options but the forward 6 + full backs have to be so fit to play in this system.

Can't see why not, it's only for 90 mins once or occasionally twice a week.

Can't see why not, it's only for 90 mins once or occasionally twice a week.

If it was that easy - wouldn’t all clubs do the same? Saw some discussion on this at the weekend and ex managers saying that players/humans can’t cope with this demand for an extended period. We have some great athletes in the squad, but they are not machines.

Will be interesting to see how we adapt - Garrett mentions squad which is vital.

Enter Gaston, Jack Cork and Calum Chambers.

Plus I think we'll see more games like Fulham, when we press to death until the game is won and then rest thereafter.

Keeping possession also helps players rest.

Also end of last season was more we were struggling to score goals, we still dominated in a lot of games like Spurs and Sunderland away - we just didnt take our chances.

Enter Gaston, Jack Cork and Calum Chambers.

 

Plus I think we'll see more games like Fulham, when we press to death until the game is won and then rest thereafter.

 

Keeping possession also helps players rest.

This is a great point and something that I raised on the match thread. I was saying that the tactic we deployed 2nd half was intelligent as the game was won - no need for us to bust a gut and win 3/4-0.

Still got the comments like "come on get more goals" and "we want 6" ect

This is something we have improved on from last season - I recall Reading away, we went 2 up but continued to press and exhaust players - we then went 6 games without a win and players looked drained.

Possession is a defensive tactic as well as an offensive one...

Its a good question given our style of play. I agree fully. Our last 6-8 games showed all the hallmarks of players fatigued after working in new ways under Mopo and after the initial high has gone and the season had left its toll.

I reckon the old hand managers with bigger squads will think we will fade and most objective people would agree -but it all really depends upon how good our sports science is and how good our squad depth is. At present I can see only four adequate replacement players in our squad who are physically up to the job who did not start v Fulham - Cork, Davis, Chambers and Osvaldo. Beyond those the rest are going to show a noticeable drop in fitness quality when and if they play. That might be harsh on Yoshida because he hasn't played all season but he plainly cannot be at the same level as fonte and lovren, but its a fact for Ramirez who has obviously continued to struggle physically, Guly for all his critics does have physical strength and speed so he is a maybe and can do a job but in midfield in particular we are probably still one player short - in particular for if and when MS or VW are not there. Hence i don't see them starting cup games and why for us the cup is absolutely time to put out the entire second eleven.

Im not sure many people are aware that its become increasingly common practice to blood spin and re-inject your own (previously withdrawn and saved) blood into injured body parts as the healing components of that spun blood are about 5 times more concentrated and this promotes faster healing of injuries. I wonder if Southampton players are having blood withdrawn and used for that purpose - or saved for later in the season in a similar way? Its a somewhat dubious practice ( and anyone who has read Tyler Hamiltons book will know why - ) but apparently blood spinning is not illegal for this use according to uefa, and i reckon its possibly the big unspoken factor in some of the apparent super fit teams we see like Bayern Munich and Dortmund ( did you know that the dortmund team ran nearly 12km MORE than Arsenal in their recent CL game at Highbury? Thats 1km more per man....it seems an obscene difference in physical capacity) Totti has had it done to an injury recently, Defoe had it done last January.... when i see the large leap in fitness we show compared to other premiership teams and even compared to twelve months ago and i hear its down to "double sessions" i think - yes, up to a point, but is there any other reason?

Do we tire out the opposition so that they make us look fitter than them towards the end because of our high ball possession? Is it just double training? ( hint- if that's so why don't all the other teams do it as well?), is it they eat better? (really? - all the EPL teams hire dieticians)...do we have a ground breaking match recovery programme ( not last year we did'nt)... I know Solent Sports science are leaders in the field so maybe that's the hidden X factor we have in refining and improving our player vo2 max....but is that everything?

Its an interesting question. I will try to remember to look at the physical opta stats for the last 10matches and compare them with last years equivalent i think...our points for those games is so much better- but have we run more to get it?

This is a great point and something that I raised on the match thread. I was saying that the tactic we deployed 2nd half was intelligent as the game was won - no need for us to bust a gut and win 3/4-0.

 

You said no such thing you bullsh itting *****. Why do you bother?

Other teams will get fatigued too.

Our test will be over Xmas when the games come thick and fast. We don't have the strength in depth that other clubs do. December really will be a pivotal time for our season.

You said no such thing you bullsh itting *****. Why do you bother?

Because he is just a constant bullsh!tter....whats new?

You said no such thing you bullsh itting *****. Why do you bother?

Because he is just a constant bullsh!tter....whats new?

seriously guys - if you cant post constructively please don’t post. this constant name calling is boring and unnecessary.

play the post not the poster

Its a good question given our style of play. I agree fully. Our last 6-8 games showed all the hallmarks of players fatigued after working in new ways under Mopo and after the initial high has gone and the season had left its toll.

 

I reckon the old hand managers with bigger squads will think we will fade and most objective people would agree -but it all really depends upon how good our sports science is and how good our squad depth is. At present I can see only four adequate replacement players in our squad who are physically up to the job who did not start v Fulham - Cork, Davis, Chambers and Osvaldo. Beyond those the rest are going to show a noticeable drop in fitness quality when and if they play. That might be harsh on Yoshida because he hasn't played all season but he plainly cannot be at the same level as fonte and lovren, but its a fact for Ramirez who has obviously continued to struggle physically, Guly for all his critics does have physical strength and speed so he is a maybe and can do a job but in midfield in particular we are probably still one player short - in particular for if and when MS or VW are not there. Hence i don't see them starting cup games and why for us the cup is absolutely time to put out the entire second eleven.

 

Im not sure many people are aware that its become increasingly common practice to blood spin and re-inject your own (previously withdrawn and saved) blood into injured body parts as the healing components of that spun blood are about 5 times more concentrated and this promotes faster healing of injuries. I wonder if Southampton players are having blood withdrawn and used for that purpose - or saved for later in the season in a similar way? Its a somewhat dubious practice ( and anyone who has read Tyler Hamiltons book will know why - ) but apparently blood spinning is not illegal for this use according to uefa, and i reckon its possibly the big unspoken factor in some of the apparent super fit teams we see like Bayern Munich and Dortmund ( did you know that the dortmund team ran nearly 12km MORE than Arsenal in their recent CL game at Highbury? Thats 1km more per man....it seems an obscene difference in physical capacity) Totti has had it done to an injury recently, Defoe had it done last January.... when i see the large leap in fitness we show compared to other premiership teams and even compared to twelve months ago and i hear its down to "double sessions" i think - yes, up to a point, but is there any other reason?

 

Do we tire out the opposition so that they make us look fitter than them towards the end because of our high ball possession? Is it just double training? ( hint- if that's so why don't all the other teams do it as well?), is it they eat better? (really? - all the EPL teams hire dieticians)...do we have a ground breaking match recovery programme ( not last year we did'nt)... I know Solent Sports science are leaders in the field so maybe that's the hidden X factor we have in refining and improving our player vo2 max....but is that everything?

 

Its an interesting question. I will try to remember to look at the physical opta stats for the last 10matches and compare them with last years equivalent i think...our points for those games is so much better- but have we run more to get it?

some really valid points - good post mate.

anyone ITK on the blood?

seriously guys - if you cant post constructively please don’t post. this constant name calling is boring and unnecessary.

 

play the post not the poster

Agreed. It's this sort of stuff that is ruining the forum!

It's a great point the OP makes and my concern too. The double training and high energy tactics do make me wonder if players will burn out as we get to the business end of the season, especially we have a good cup run. Quite a few comments on how tired some of the played looked towards the end of last season and that was before MP had really stamped his mark on the side. Time will tell I guess and we will no doubt need to use the full squad if we are taking the cups as seriously as us fans would like us too.

The ones that press are the front 4 and we do have multiple players in those positions, MoPo and his staff arent daft, they wont burn players out and e has playing this style for a long while now so ought to know how to manage a squad through a season playing that way

What will be interesting is once we are safe, will we start to drop that intensity as weve seen teams like WBA and Swansea do in recent years

The ones that press are the front 4 and we do have multiple players in those positions, MoPo and his staff arent daft, they wont burn players out and e has playing this style for a long while now so ought to know how to manage a squad through a season playing that way

What will be interesting is once we are safe, will we start to drop that intensity as weve seen teams like WBA and Swansea do in recent years

Treat the players like thorough bread horses and they will be fine. We seem to have some excellent individual physical improvements regimes going on which shows the sports science part we adopt is working very well.

Seem to remember the hard fitness regime WGS put the squad through when he arrived was attributed to a raft of injurys we were getting, I expect we're just doing it in a more intelligent and specific way. We seem to be focussing on the finite points and when added together is showing other teams up for a less fastidious and holistic approach. We've had very few injuries of late *hoping to not put the mockers on that statistc*

Either way I fully expect this has been discussed in depth in the halls of SFC and have faith burnout will not be a huge problem.

thorough bread horses

Edit:

It's a great point the OP makes and my concern too. The double training and high energy tactics do make me wonder if players will burn out as we get to the business end of the season, especially we have a good cup run. Quite a few comments on how tired some of the played looked towards the end of last season and that was before MP had really stamped his mark on the side. Time will tell I guess and we will no doubt need to use the full squad if we are taking the cups as seriously as us fans would like us too.

Thank you Turkish.

Sometimes I find this forum/life hard. its posts like this that keep me going

I don't think it is such a concern, we have only played 9 games in 10 weeks, with a changed side featuring in the cups.

although we do have international call ups it's nothing compared to the other teams at the top of the table.

compare that to clubs who have had to play champions league (6 group games plus qualifiers) or Europa League.

Maybe it helps having players who have been with us through League One and the Championship. There didn't seem to be an issue with tiredness and fatigue when we had regular midweek games so there shouldn't be now. In the first half against Fulham the intensity was so high that the second half was no more than a keep ball training session, would be ideal if we could kill off a few more games early on

Thank you Turkish.

 

Sometimes I find this forum/life hard. its posts like this that keep me going

At 16 thousand posts it's not that hard for you to keep going. Why don't you take a break for a while? Good thread btw. Another factor with the teams endurance apart from the aerobic/anaerobic fitness and sports science nous must surely be the hunger and motivation the team has now - such a contrast to an ageing Fulham at the weekend. As others have noted, if we skip past 40 points well before February-March it will be interesting to see if the energy/endurance maintains until May - assuming we aren't still staring at CL. It's great to watch.

Thank you Turkish.

 

Sometimes I find this forum/life hard. its posts like this that keep me going

At 16 thousand posts it's not that hard for you to keep going. Why don't you take a break for a while? Good thread btw. Another factor with the teams endurance apart from the aerobic/anaerobic fitness and sports science nous must surely be the hunger and motivation the team has now - such a contrast to an ageing Fulham at the weekend. As others have noted, if we skip past 40 points well before February-March it will be interesting to see if the energy/endurance maintains until May - assuming we aren't still staring at CL. It's great to watch.

If it was that easy - wouldn’t all clubs do the same? Saw some discussion on this at the weekend and ex managers saying that players/humans can’t cope with this demand for an extended period. We have some great athletes in the squad, but they are not machines.

 

Will be interesting to see how we adapt - Garrett mentions squad which is vital.

Barcelona manage it, and they've got Champions League on top of everything else.

Was speaking to a villa supporting mate of mine and he said under o'neill they pressed a lot and seemed to hit the wall in March each year. The difference that he can see though is that when they had the ball they then played it forward very directly so they didn't retain possession allowing for any respite. He thinks given our ball retention levels we might last a little better. Will be interesting to see if we can maintain this or just reach a point when the players are spent.

Although we press hard, we do spend a lot of time passing the ball around to give the players a breather. I think during the game you need to balance the 2 tactics out, and this should be enough on a game to game basis. We have a stronger squad now, with many players who would have been first choice last year around, that if need be players could be rested for certain games.

I don't buy into this 'running out of steam once spring has come' stuff. I am a middle distance runner and can compete almost every weekend. I recovery and train all week whilst also holding down a full time job.

Our players are elite athletes with the very best in sports science not to mention the dieticians and sports massage. Of course they can keep this up. The only thing that can affect them now is injuries. They will not get any fitter now and it's all about maintaining the level they are at.

JWP was interviewed on Solent post match on Saturday, very good by the way, you forgot he was 18 and thought he had been doing post match interviews for years. There was some comment made about how calm the dressing room sounded after the game, and he said that everyone in there was exhausted as they had put a lot into the game on the back of a good hard week in training but they thoroughly enjoyed it.

Rickie was reported in the Summer to have had his 2 week holiday and as soon as he was back was in the gym making sure he was in top condition for pre season, he has also said himself that he has never been so fit and absolutley loving that fact. Putting those 2 snippets together it is likely that the players fitness is very good, but the exhaustion JWP was referring could be more mental due to the high levels of concentration to play the way we do, especially as at times v Fulham some of the interplay between Saints players appeared from the stands to be almost telepathic.

As others have said above it will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next few months,

Benefits of a youngish squad

Keeping possession also helps players rest.

Well, at the Fulham game Saints covered miles more turf than lazy Fulham, and at speed too. So I shall be watching other games to judge if we really are causing teams to chase us more and exhaust themselves more than we exhaust ourselves.. I doubt it.

At 16 thousand posts it's not that hard for you to keep going. Why don't you take a break for a while?

Yep. Good point. I am confident that with my mere 4.5 thousand posts at a maximum of three a day, I will get to May without feeling any effects.

Seriously, an interesting OP.

When I read this post I thought how is a Japanese game show Saints related.

 

Edit:

 

Edit:

That did make me laugh out loud. "Thorough bread" FFS! Best Nellie Pledge I have seen in ages

One thing I've noticed with this MP side is what they do once they get 2-0 up.

Against Fulham, Palace, and to an extent Swansea, the intention changes to ball retention at a slower pace, almost casual with the potential for errors to creep in; rather than going for the jugular with a big score.

A high intensity for as long as it takes to get a comfortable lead , then relax and conserve energy.

Should be fine. We don't press for 90 minutes and we don't press in every single game. Think back to WBA, Norwich, Palace etc. The pressing comes in stages so as to avoid us becoming predictable. We've looked just as impressive defending as a compact unit deep into our own half. Think Pochettino knows high pressing is not sustainable for an entire season in the EPL, he struggled to maintain it with Espanyol. The Premier League is even harder for that with no winter break etc. There's much more to our defensive strategies than just the high press (started way back at Spurs away) so I think fatigue should not be an issue. Also expect us to buy in January.

Should be fine. We don't press for 90 minutes and we don't press in every single game. Think back to WBA, Norwich, Palace etc. The pressing comes in stages so as to avoid us becoming predictable. We've looked just as impressive defending as a compact unit deep into our own half. Think Pochettino knows high pressing is not sustainable for an entire season in the EPL, he struggled to maintain it with Espanyol. The Premier League is even harder for that with no winter break etc. There's much more to our defensive strategies than just the high press (started way back at Spurs away) so I think fatigue should not be an issue. Also expect us to buy in January.

Mentioned this on another thread - not sure what the signal is for this or who gives it, but you’re right it does happen in stages and seems synchronised

Mentioned this on another thread

Prove it, you lying ar se.

Can you remember in the Championship when everyone was wondering whether or not we'd make it till Christmas at the top.

I have a ST with a friend who's and Gooner and he spent all summer saying Saints will get caught out this season. The Big clubs would have worked them out, and so on.

After 3 Games this season he was saying lets see where you'll be after ten games.......if we can make it till Christmas in a European position he's agreed to wear a Saints shirt for the rest of the season.

It doesn't seem to be a problem for Barcelona so there's no reason it should be a problem for us!

Prove it, you lying ar se.

Im flattered by all the attention xxxx mwah

League cup: our 1st casulty

League cup: our 1st casulty

Morgan no.2

seriously guys - if you cant post constructively please don’t post. this constant name calling is boring and unnecessary.

 

play the post not the poster

Quite frankly I am getting fed up with the posters that just pick on a few names and ridicule them rather than reading the posts. Very juvenile.

Morgan will be a big miss. Pop JWP back there imo or get Cork back in the side.

If Morgan's out for an extended period and we don't buy a top quality replacement come January, we can kiss top 6 goodbye nevermind top 4....

Morgan no.2

Wanyama is casulty no 3

Did I hit the nail on the head back in October?