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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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FMPR

FMPR

Posted
Posted
I honestly couldn't answer that. It is however slightly disingenuous to suggest that less fans can generate the largest fan owned club, particularly when they will be propped up by property developers.

 

Interestingly, their ownership structure is based on annual membership, ensuring a constant stream of funds into the club yearly. 2750 currently active members paying less then 2 pounds a month, not masses but every little helps. The Skates is one lump sum up front, just like their season ticket for life scheme a decade or so ago. The differing structures are quite fascinating.

 

http://www.ecfcst.org.uk/home/trust-history/

 

Did a bit of digging. £20k to buy the club with a CVA of around £350,000 from debts of £4.5m. Thats was with 2,500 trust members....

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FMPR

FMPR

Posted
Posted
Yes, but your higher one off prices aren't to buy a 'bigger' club, they're to pay off even more debt. Including to charities.

 

Hmm dont think so.

 

CVA is approx £800k, compromise agreements of £8mish which parachute payments should cover. As far as my understanding on the subject, the pledges will be the main crux of the clubs working capital to start off.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
Hmm dont think so.

 

CVA is approx £800k, compromise agreements of £8mish which parachute payments should cover. As far as my understanding on the subject, the pledges will be the main crux of the clubs working capital to start off.

 

More money needed to pay for initial running capital to keep the club going.

 

An admission that the club is still living beyond it's means for me. ;)

 

Unlike the fan owned Exeter which has to break even every year.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
Hmm dont think so.

 

CVA is approx £800k, compromise agreements of £8mish which parachute payments should cover. As far as my understanding on the subject, the pledges will be the main crux of the clubs working capital to start off.

 

So in other words, a consortium of Property Developers are buying some land with a decrepit building on it, and a bunch of fans have donated to collecting buckets to keep a tinpot club going for a little longer?

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Saint Lindford

Saint Lindford

Posted
Posted

Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

Excellent blog from @SjMaskell - the leading female blogger on #Pompey. Accept no imitations!! http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=21167

 

Oh dear, they are at it again.

 

The completed deal will be unique in English football - er why? Other clubs have done it before and without the aid of Property Developers.

 

Indeed it would already appear Portpin have much more to worry about than the redemption of their charge. At a recent hearing of the Solicitors’ Disciplinary Tribunal evidence was given as to the way in which Portpin’s solicitor, Mark Jacob and the firm of Fuglers, were complicit in breaches of a solicitor’s undertaking in their conduct of affairs at Pompey in 2009 – 10. In addition, liquidators of PCFC Ltd (the company running Pompey that Portpin put into administration in Feb 2010), Baker Tilly, have issued notices asking for the return of monies removed from the club in contravention of section 127 of the insolvency act. It is very likely Portpin have received one of those letters. There is also a lot more to come from official investigations into the way Portpin have been involved with Pompey over the last three years. - umm I am sure the Football League will be looking at this as well. Expect that #pompey will be receiving notice of further points deductions due to financial irregularities.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
Hmm dont think so.

 

CVA is approx £800k, compromise agreements of £8mish which parachute payments should cover. As far as my understanding on the subject, the pledges will be the main crux of the clubs working capital to start off.

Don't forget that ten converted pledges are required PER DAY between now and the day Birch hands over the train set to the PDT just to cover the administrator fees in that period. This working capital is being reduced on a daily basis.

 

If we assume a (highly optimistic) conversion rate of 50%, that's around 900 pledges. If the takeover is not completed within 3 months, that pledge money will have effectively been wasted. The fans are not contributing to the running of the club, they're contributing to PKF's Christmas bonus scheme.

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
Neil Allen ‏@pn_neil_allen

Excellent blog from @SjMaskell - the leading female blogger on #Pompey. Accept no imitations!! http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=21167

 

Oh dear, they are at it again.

 

The completed deal will be unique in English football - er why? Other clubs have done it before and without the aid of Property Developers.

 

Indeed it would already appear Portpin have much more to worry about than the redemption of their charge. At a recent hearing of the Solicitors’ Disciplinary Tribunal evidence was given as to the way in which Portpin’s solicitor, Mark Jacob and the firm of Fuglers, were complicit in breaches of a solicitor’s undertaking in their conduct of affairs at Pompey in 2009 – 10. In addition, liquidators of PCFC Ltd (the company running Pompey that Portpin put into administration in Feb 2010), Baker Tilly, have issued notices asking for the return of monies removed from the club in contravention of section 127 of the insolvency act. It is very likely Portpin have received one of those letters. There is also a lot more to come from official investigations into the way Portpin have been involved with Pompey over the last three years. - umm I am sure the Football League will be looking at this as well. Expect that #pompey will be receiving notice of further points deductions due to financial irregularities.

 

What she fails to mention is that monies 'returned to the club' will be distributed to creditors of the liquidated company Baker Tilly are overseeing.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
So Exeter agreed a CVA of £350k on a debt of £4.5 mil and the Skates agreed (???) a CVA of £800k on debts of £160 mil !!

Exeter has 2,500 trust contributors, Skates have (maybe!) 1,800 !

Conclusion = Pompey is a much bigger club !

Logic, innit :)

 

But they will be a bigger fan owned club then Exeter; they will! So....so...... so THERE! :lol:

 

From signing Maradona and Riquelme to being smaller then Exeter City FC in approx 1,500 pages.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Don't forget that ten converted pledges are required PER DAY between now and the day Birch hands over the train set to the PDT just to cover the administrator fees in that period. This working capital is being reduced on a daily basis.

 

If we assume a (highly optimistic) conversion rate of 50%, that's around 900 pledges. If the takeover is not completed within 3 months, that pledge money will have effectively been wasted. The fans are not contributing to the running of the club, they're contributing to PKF's Christmas bonus scheme.

 

I'm still convinced PKF will effectively be forced into "doing the honourable thing" and waive a percentage of their fees so that the plucky bestest Trust in the whole wide world get a head start.

 

Their groundbreaking scheme is a shining beacon to the rest of the football industry dontcha know...

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Don't forget that ten converted pledges are required PER DAY between now and the day Birch hands over the train set to the PDT just to cover the administrator fees in that period. This working capital is being reduced on a daily basis.

 

If we assume a (highly optimistic) conversion rate of 50%, that's around 900 pledges. If the takeover is not completed within 3 months, that pledge money will have effectively been wasted. The fans are not contributing to the running of the club, they're contributing to PKF's Christmas bonus scheme.

 

You can't say that, apparently. Colin Farmery specifically went on radio when Portpin levied that exact charge and, in super Col's own words "Portpin are making things up" and "I'd like to see what proof they have of that".

 

:facepalm:

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Jimmy_D

Jimmy_D

Posted
Posted
I'm still convinced PKF will effectively be forced into "doing the honourable thing" and waive a percentage of their fees so that the plucky bestest Trust in the whole wide world get a head start.

 

Their groundbreaking scheme is a shining beacon to the rest of the football industry dontcha know...

 

Administrators aren't generally in the business to give money away...

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Administrators aren't generally in the business to give money away...

 

Nor are they in the business of attracting bad publicity....

 

I feel they will need to assess whether being instrumental in potentially derailing the Trust bid (by calling in 100% of their fees) would cost them more reputationally than it would to trim their bill.

 

As I say, just a hunch

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Here's one for our fishy friends to investigate (no I ain't got time to google) and maybe one of our Dutch based lurkers can elaborate, but was chatting to a Dutch fiteh here at the conference and she said

 

Breda...

 

2 years ago huge financial meltdown. The entiire City(town?) got together raised money got charged some extra rates etc. They even talked McDonalds into helping put with Breda burgers and sponsorship.

 

This season? Bottom of Dutch League.

 

Facing financial meltdown. Fans have nothing left to give despite all the appeals, they look more nailed on for relegation than either Saints or QPR and pop........

 

Over to the experts. I just supply the opportunity to compare. I have to go get Listz or something on a boat trip

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
The Plymouth example last year saw their administrator's take about 40% of what they were owed under pressure from the fans and new owner. So, it does happen.

 

Yay! Looks like one of my hunches actually has a chance of become true this time :)

 

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if administrators actually factor in a future reduction into their fees when they are dealing with cases where being seen to reduce their fees would give them some good PR

Edited by trousers
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Gorgiesaint

Gorgiesaint

Posted
Posted
Here's one for our fishy friends to investigate (no I ain't got time to google) and maybe one of our Dutch based lurkers can elaborate, but was chatting to a Dutch fiteh here at the conference and she said

 

Breda...

 

2 years ago huge financial meltdown. The entiire City(town?) got together raised money got charged some extra rates etc. They even talked McDonalds into helping put with Breda burgers and sponsorship.

 

This season? Bottom of Dutch League.

 

Facing financial meltdown. Fans have nothing left to give despite all the appeals, they look more nailed on for relegation than either Saints or QPR and pop........

 

Over to the experts. I just supply the opportunity to compare. I have to go get Listz or something on a boat trip

 

I don't know the full situation but I believe the council own the stadium and lease it to the club, which is pretty common with Dutch clubs. One of NAC's biggest complaints is that the rent charged is much higher than the rents charged to other clubs - up to twice as much. The last figures I have seen was that NAC were being charged around 1.2m euros per season - ADO Den Haag pay around 560k euros a season for a brand new 15k capacity stadium (NAC's capacity is 19k).

 

Hmm not owning your stadium causing problems - and that's when your council owns it, not a property developer!

 

If I get time over the weekend, I'll see if I can research what the fans did.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)

re their hopes of escaping the lenient -10 point deduction (should actually be more in line with the -17 points Rotherham and Bournemouth got)...

 

"Thats with the Football League, its something all fans are expecting to happen. We have to look at that being a real reality unfortunately."

 

- Ashley Brown chairman of supporters trust 15th November 2012

 

From 4:40 in this video...

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/fans-trust-defiant-ahead-of-fratton-park-court-battle-1-4491739

Edited by Matthew Le God
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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted

So they need nearly £2m just to ensure they have a majority stake, which would involve a 90+% conversion rate of pledges. If they were to raise less than £1m, they wouldn't even have the 25% required as a blocking vote!

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Chopper71

Chopper71

Posted
Posted

 

As expected - you give us £1000 that you cannot ever withdraw (unless they want to let you), you will never get a dividend, you do not know how bigger a share in the company it buys you, if they don't convert enough then the HNWI will be a majority making your voting rights approximately zero, but it does give you an unspecified discount on a season ticket. Interestingly it does not say anything about what happens to your £1k if for whatever reason they do not complete the deal to buy the club! It's almost as good a proposal as lending them £1k - at least then you could get 0.4p in the pound return at some point - maybe.

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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted (edited)
They are planning to make a £4.8m loss over the next 19 months?

 

Genius!

 

Actually, scrub that. £7m in 7 months!

 

£2.5m trading loss and £4m in liabilities, and negative £600k cash from trading activities (wonder what that is).

Edited by St Chalet
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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

 

"Our share offer is exempt from the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 or subsidiary regulations;

this means you have no right of complaint to an ombudsman. A community benefit society is registered with but not authorised by the Financial Services Authority and therefore the money you pay for your shares is not safeguarded by any depositor protection scheme or dispute resolution scheme. As the whole

of your purchase of shares could carry a risk, please consider it carefully in the context of the complete share offer document, and if needed seek independent advice."

 

#nutshell

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

so you have to trawl through a load of plucky spin to get to the one key sentence...

 

For PST to become the majority shareholder we will need

to hold more shares than the collective shareholding

of the Presidents. As things stand at present a majority

shareholding would cost £1.826M. We believe this can be

achieved based on the number of deposits from supporters

in the pre share offer.

 

I can't see where the property developers get their vote, or are they just landlords and loan sharks now?

What could go wrong.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

"Portsmouth Football Club (PFC) is unique. It was the first club south of London to win the FA Cup in 1939 and the only club in the south to have won the league, twice, in 1949 and 1950. The first floodlit league match took place at Fratton Park in 1956 and the passion of the Pompey fans is renowned.

 

:facepalm:

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
"Portsmouth Football Club (PFC) is unique. It was the first club south of London to win the FA Cup in 1939 and the only club in the south to have won the league, twice, in 1949 and 1950. The first floodlit league match took place at Fratton Park in 1956 and the passion of the Pompey fans is renowned.

 

:facepalm:

 

What! No mention of them being the first premier league club to go into admin?

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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Portsmouth Football Club (PFC) is unique. It was the first club south of London to win the FA Cup in 1939 and the only club in the south to have won the league, twice, in 1949 and 1950. The first floodlit league match took place at Fratton Park in 1956 and the passion of the Pompey fans is renowned.

 

:facepalm:

 

They omitted to mention where the first competitive floodlit game was played then ;)

Edited by St Chalet
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St Chalet

St Chalet

Posted
Posted

"These statements and the assumptions that underlie them are based on the current expectations of the Board and are subject to a number of factors, many of which are beyond their control. As a result, there can be no assurance that actual results will not differ materially from those described in this document."

 

:lol:

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Interestingly it does not say anything about what happens to your £1k if for whatever reason they do not complete the deal to buy the club! It's almost as good a proposal as lending them £1k - at least then you could get 0.4p in the pound return at some point - maybe.

is there any chance that these £1000s could end up being used to pay PKF fees?

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Joe Kirkup

Joe Kirkup

Posted
Posted
"Portsmouth Football Club (PFC) is unique. It was the first club south of London to win the FA Cup in 1939 and the only club in the south to have won the league, twice, in 1949 and 1950. The first floodlit league match took place at Fratton Park in 1956 and the passion of the Pompey fans is renowned.

 

:facepalm:

 

So where's London then? Up North?

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goneawol

goneawol

Posted
Posted (edited)

CAN I GET MY MONEY BACK?

PST community shares are withdrawable with the consent of the

'PST Board. The Board will not be able to consent to withdrawals

before 2016 and there is no certainty, given the challenges

the club faces, that withdrawals will be possible thereafter.

Withdrawals will be made possible through the continual

investment of new participants and by building up the reserves

of PST.'

 

Play up Ponzi.

Edited by goneawol
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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted

As a further thought.

 

Porstmouth are stating they have 1,800 pledgers (None currently confirmed) and need a property developer to take on 50% or so.

Exeter have a confirmed figure of 4,000 on their database. No property developers.

FC United of Manchester also have 4,000 pledgers that helped them start up. No property developers.

MyFootballClub had easily over 30,000 to purchase Ebbsfleet United FC (Active members however now down to less then 4000) No property developers, all equal share, not strictly 'fan owned though,' unless you count football fans in general.

 

So, unique? Really? And the Largest fan owned club?

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
That was an exhibition. First competitive sanctioned game was at the Dell it would seem!

 

http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/DidYouKnow06.htm

 

Very telling and reflective of the whole sorry charade.

 

Factually inaccurate, full of flaws and dripping with overblown self importance.

 

And I fear they'll get away with it...... right up until the point they realise they've fallen for their own b*llsh*t and it just doesn't add up.

 

This thread will run and run for years to come yet.

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