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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Saint_clark

Saint_clark

Posted
Posted
It does not really matter about the statement of affairs to be honest and even if it favours Pompey it doesnt change anything. They were given a reprieve based on the fact they argued they were about to be taken over and wanted more time to complete it. A week later and they don't appear any closer. They only have 7 working days left now until the court case. And if they are to avoid having the plug pulled they have to have funds in place to pay their debts. If that is via a takeover or someone already in the club it does not matter.

 

Before that date they have 2 games against Stoke and Burnley lose to either of them and they will effectively be down, draw them both and it will be the same.

I can see them drawing to Stoke and then lose to Burnley and then it would not surprise me one bit to then see them go into admin.

 

The other question is lets assume they get past the court case and they have a deal in place to pay back the debts. They then lose those games. If i remember right isn't march 10th the date you have to go into admin to get the points deduction this season?

 

Surely if they go into admin after being "proven solvent" then they are playing a very dangerous game. If they can afford to pay off their debts then they don't need admin.

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
I assume the bits they wish to have factored in ,is the extra cash from the Fa Cup fixture and the tv/PL money due.Also the sudden reduction in the wage bill of Utaka's wages. Strange that he has been so unhappy about the talk about his wages why speak about it today?

Because he's only been paying tax on the first £27k?

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
I've been overseas for a few days and I'm sure that before I went Storrie was confident of a takeover in the next 24 - 48hrs.

 

I'm assuming nowt happened there, nor with their hope of the EPL forwarding them some ££?

 

In fact, what has happened?

 

He's still confident of a takeover in the next 24-48 hrs. Then tomorrow, the next 24-48 hrs and again and so on!

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Winchester Red

Winchester Red

Posted
Posted
I've been overseas for a few days and I'm sure that before I went Storrie was confident of a takeover in the next 24 - 48hrs.

 

I'm assuming nowt happened there, nor with their hope of the EPL forwarding them some ££?

 

In fact, what has happened?

 

eeerrrrmm...... F*** All

 

About what Storrie usually achieves

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Kingsland Red

Kingsland Red

Posted
Posted

I mentioned it a few hundred posts ago (I love this thread) but I think the 1st March is a very astute date set by the beak.

As well as giving them rope to hang themselves with the SoA and a lack of investors, the court date is also after the pay day and its associated cost.

Wages, VAT,PAYE and NI of about £4.5m. That rope may also include a non-payment of wages for a 5th month, which would allow PFC to sign their own death certificate.

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
I can see the logic in that but why are they still there?

I can only assume they have something in the report that we have not thought of.

 

Probably think it's pointless walking away, in blind hope something will turn up. They'll all resign en mass on 28th February whilst on flights to the Cayman Islands.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
I've been overseas for a few days and I'm sure that before I went Storrie was confident of a takeover in the next 24 - 48hrs.

 

I'm assuming nowt happened there, nor with their hope of the EPL forwarding them some ££?

 

In fact, what has happened?

 

Sunday/Monday the same '48 hour' Storrie

Tueday/Wednesday media silence (either too busy with new investor, or too busy with the tippex and shredder)

 

Guess the best thing you've missed is the al Fahim arrest warrant stuff...

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saintbletch

saintbletch

Posted
Posted
Haven't read the last few pages, but does anybody else think that Utaka is lieing about his wage? Took him long enough to "clarify" it, and it's a bit of a coincidence that it's come around the same time they need to hand a finance report to the courts.

The whole thing stinks.

 

If Sol Campbell is anything to go by, then it might be standard practice for Pompey to pay their players image rights separately from their wages+bonuses.

 

I think it's a tax dodge, or at least it appeared to be in Sol Campbell's case. He registered a company somewhere "off-shore" and that was paid his image rights. This left only his wage and any bonuses to attract tax in the UK.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if John Utaka did something similar. So he may be right about his wage but his total remuneration, including image rights and bonuses may be considerably higher.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

http://www.creditman.biz/uk/members/news-view.asp?newsviewID=11284

 

Nick OReilly, Client Partner at Vantis BRS, today confirmed: Vantis has completed the statement of affairs report and submitted it to the board and owners of Portsmouth Football Club today, Wednesday 17 February 2010.

 

Nick continued: This report will then be submitted by the board by 4pm today to the Court and HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC),
along with their own evidence of potential interested parties and developments since the last hearing took place on 10 February 2010
. HMRC will then have an opportunity to make its further representations to the High Court ahead of the next hearing, scheduled for 1 March 2010.

 

Not sure potentially interested parties is going to change HMRC's mind. I wonder that what relevant 'developments' are there that have happened since the last court appearance?

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Draino76

Draino76

Posted
Posted
I mentioned it a few hundred posts ago (I love this thread) but I think the 1st March is a very astute date set by the beak.

As well as giving them rope to hang themselves with the SoA and a lack of investors, the court date is also after the pay day and its associated cost.

Wages, VAT,PAYE and NI of about £4.5m. That rope may also include a non-payment of wages for a 5th month, which would allow PFC to sign their own death certificate.

 

Yep. Nail...head.

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Under Weststand

Under Weststand

Posted
Posted

I thought by now that we'd have had a rallying cry from Storry teller, along the lines of :- Everything is fine Vantis have put forward a very strong case for our continuing to increase our debt opps sorry meant to say pay our debt's & steady the ship. I expect the 2 consortium's to be in a position to put in a bid in the next 24/48-hrs.

Remain calm, whilst I fly to Russia to put the last pieces of the jigsaw together.

 

Maybe I'm reading to much into this SILENCE but it seems strange from the blue few?

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
If Sol Campbell is anything to go by, then it might be standard practice for Pompey to pay their players image rights separately from their wages+bonuses.

 

I think it's a tax dodge, or at least it appeared to be in Sol Campbell's case. He registered a company somewhere "off-shore" and that was paid his image rights. This left only his wage and any bonuses to attract tax in the UK.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if John Utaka did something similar. So he may be right about his wage but his total remuneration, including image rights and bonuses may be considerably higher.

 

Actually I think the story at the time indicated his bonuses were also paid into the offshore account which sounds even more dubious a practice than the image rights.

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
I thought by now that we'd have had a rallying cry from Storry teller, along the lines of :- Everything is fine Vantis have put forward a very strong case for our continuing to increase our debt opps sorry meant to say pay our debt's & steady the ship. I expect the 2 consortium's to be in a position to put in a bid in the next 24/48-hrs.

Remain calm, whilst I fly to Russia to put the last pieces of the jigsaw together.

 

Maybe I'm reading to much into this SILENCE but it seems strange from the blue few?

Has Storrie been on SSN crying that the man from Vantis waved the report in his face in a threatening manner. he is thinking of resigning as he is only trying his best to keep Pompey in business and people from looking into the books
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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just basic reports stating what we already know... 'HMRC now scrutinising' etc:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7258975/Portsmouths-finances-scrutinised-by-Inland-Revenue-officials.html

 

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/02/17/manual_190410.html&TEAMHD=premiership

Edited by Joensuu
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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted

 

What would be really funny is that pompey are assuming that nothing will happen till late friday afternoon by when HMRC must return to court but there is nothing to say they can't return well before then. What's to stop HMRC paying some top bods overtime to look at the statement now and then for them to go to court tomorrow morning to say they have studied the report but still wish to proceed with the WUO. That would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
What would be really funny is that pompey are assuming that nothing will happen till late friday afternoon by when HMRC must return to court but there is nothing to say they can't return well before then. What's to stop HMRC paying some top bods overtime to look at the statement now and then for them to go to court tomorrow morning to say they have studied the report but still wish to proceed with the WUO. That would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

 

 

Nice idea, but 'public sector' & 'overtime'?

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
What would be really funny is that pompey are assuming that nothing will happen till late friday afternoon by when HMRC must return to court but there is nothing to say they can't return well before then. What's to stop HMRC paying some top bods overtime to look at the statement now and then for them to go to court tomorrow morning to say they have studied the report but still wish to proceed with the WUO. That would throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

 

Why do you think HMRC need to go to court on Friday?

 

Unless HMRC decide to make some sort of interim application then the next time they will be at court will be 1 March.

 

(I think).

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Why do you think HMRC need to go to court on Friday?

 

Unless HMRC decide to make some sort of interim application then the next time they will be at court will be 1 March.

 

(I think).

 

Seen a couple of places where it says they have 48 hours to respond to the statement by deciding if to proceed or not.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Seen a couple of places where it says they have 48 hours to respond to the statement by deciding if to proceed or not.

 

I don't think that's right. They can withdraw the petition at any time if they wish. If they do nothing then we just rumble on to 1 March (although there might be some sort of submission of skeleton arguments required in advance of the hearing).

 

They certainly aren't going to drop it now (unless the SoA shows that someone has pumped a load of cash in, no strings attached).

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
I don't think that's right. They can withdraw the petition at any time if they wish. If they do nothing then we just rumble on to 1 March (although there might be some sort of submission of skeleton arguments required in advance of the hearing).

 

They certainly aren't going to drop it now (unless the SoA shows that someone has pumped a load of cash in, no strings attached).

 

If you trust a pompey message board (not sure about the grammer!):

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2122761747 I confirm there is no there is no hearing today no decision will be made

 

1 The Company must file with the Court Office and serve on HMRC

the Statement of Affairs by 4.00 p.m today.

 

2 HMRC have until 4.00 p.m friday the 19th to respond by filing with the court and serving the PFC Company.

 

3 A provisional date to hear the WUP has been fixed for 1st March before a single Judge in open court . Hearing estimated for half a day.

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krissyboy31

krissyboy31

Posted
Posted
Seen a couple of places where it says they have 48 hours to respond to the statement by deciding if to proceed or not.

 

If satisfied by the SoA they can withdraw the WUP but I don't think they have to go back to court. I presume the court case could still proceed if in the lawyers were still convinced they had been trading whilst insolvent?

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
If you trust a pompey message board (not sure about the grammer!):

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2122761747 I confirm there is no there is no hearing today no decision will be made

 

1 The Company must file with the Court Office and serve on HMRC

the Statement of Affairs by 4.00 p.m today.

 

2 HMRC have until 4.00 p.m friday the 19th to respond by filing with the court and serving the PFC Company.

 

3 A provisional date to hear the WUP has been fixed for 1st March before a single Judge in open court . Hearing estimated for half a day.

 

Maybe they do have to file an acknowledgement and state their intention to continue then. I think the point stands though that they won't be doing anything substantive before 1 March; simply a "yes" or "no" as to proceeding.

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Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
If you trust a pompey message board (not sure about the grammer!):

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2122761747 I confirm there is no there is no hearing today no decision will be made

 

1 The Company must file with the Court Office and serve on HMRC

the Statement of Affairs by 4.00 p.m today.

 

2 HMRC have until 4.00 p.m friday the 19th to respond by filing with the court and serving the PFC Company.

 

3 A provisional date to hear the WUP has been fixed for 1st March before a single Judge in open court . Hearing estimated for half a day.

 

 

The winding up order was applied for in Oct, I do not think that they have to keep re-applying, every step of the way. The court date was originally set for Monday, then it was changed to next Monday. However, the court made the rules i.e SofA in by 1600 hrs today, I don't they have changed!!.

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted

I'm no expert in any kind of law or finance but the bottom the line the judge will surely be looking at is "Are Portsmouth worth saving? Is there a realistic chance they will get bought/bring in investment?" In short, are they doing more harm to creditors by staying in business than being out of it? I can't see any other answer "yes". They're still running up debts and with relegation a probability they'll run up more. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

I'm not really clear about liquidation but if they did get liquidated would the sale of their assets be divided amongst creditors? If that's the case then I would have thought any creditor of PFC would be calling for liquidation - it's a more certain guarantee of at least some money than any of Storrie's promises.

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
If Poopey was a dog they'd have been put down long ago. This is all dragging on too long. Every day i log on and hope to read they no longer exist. How much longer until everything comes to a head?

 

Im not sure why anybody thought anything would happen today.

Unless they go into admin, March 1st is D day and always has been

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Let's do some history shall we.

 

April 2007 Paul Allen rumoured to be buying Saints

 

April 2009 Saints get bought by ML

 

So, it took two years and an administration before a buyer could be found for approximately 40million pounds worth of BOOK value assets and around 35 mil of secured LONG TERM debt payable over a further 19 years.

 

Miraculously, the skates found not one, not two BUT THREE buyers in the space of half a football season. One was already subject to a court case alleging financial impropriety, one seemed to not exist and one seems to have been conned.

 

So, for those worriers out there they then were given 7 days to find a new buyer.

 

The ONLY difference between the two situations were that Leon Crouch reckoned it would take 6 months. At least he had SOME idea of the problems.

 

Birmingham City's first potential bid was received in June 2007

 

(all thanks to google BTW)

 

 

Oh FWIW the bloke that drives the taxi to the RMC depot for the bloke that washes the cars let me in on one alleged snippet which was ..

 

"I don't think the "not very popular" possible buyers from a state in North Africa have stopped running screaming from the first meeting yet - the rumour is that they ran so fast they were able to walk to the IOW..."

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dune

dune

Posted
Posted

Looking at it rationally why would anyone want to buy Pompey. They have nothing going for them. Putting aside the debts they are effectively a Championship club with a crumbling ground and a mediocre fanbase. You'd have to be mad to buy the Skates when there's far better options available.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some seem to be getting tied up with dates.

 

This was the original order as I understand it.

 

The court ordered PFC to file the SoA by 4pm today, 17th Feb, which they have done.

 

HMRC had until 4pm Friday 19th Feb to consider.

 

Court to hear earliest date after 19th Feb. It just happens the earlier date found was 1st March but that was not incorportaed in the order only first available date after 19th.

 

We may see a state of inertia after 19th until 1st March but you can bet both sets of Lawyers will be working overtime. I expect Pompey will call another conference with Counsel. It would suprise me greatly if they do not now employ a QC to protect their position at the hearing. Their Junior (despite being called in 1993) was up against an experienced QC for HMRC last time and nearly lost the case at that hearing.

Edited by Weston Saint
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Fowllyd

Fowllyd

Posted
Posted
Oh FWIW the bloke that drives the taxi to the RMC depot for the bloke that washes the cars let me in on one alleged snippet which was ..

 

"I don't think the "not very popular" possible buyers from a state in North Africa have stopped running screaming from the first meeting yet - the rumour is that they ran so fast they were able to walk to the IOW..."

 

It may be no more than gossip, but... :smt044 all the same. And, let's face it, it's very easy to believe!

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Some seem to be getting tied up with dates.

 

This was the original order as I understand it.

 

The court ordered PFC to file the SoA by 4pm today, 17th Feb, which they have done.

 

HMRC had until 4pm Friday 19th Feb to consider.

 

Court to hear earliest date after 19th Feb. It just happens the earlier date found was 1st March but that was not incorportaed in the order only first available date after 19th.

 

We may see a state of inertia after 19th until 1st March but you can bet both sets of Lawyers will be working overtime. I expect Pompey will call another conference with Counsel. It would suprise me greatly if they do not now employ a QC to protect their position at the hearing. Their Junior (despite being called in 1993) was up against an experienced QC for HMRC last time and nearly lost the case at that hearing.

 

WS thanks for that....

 

So what you just said is that they went to Court & took the cheap option...

 

and that nearly cost them everything :smt033

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Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Jimmy Gabriel's Halo

Posted
Posted
I mentioned it a few hundred posts ago (I love this thread) but I think the 1st March is a very astute date set by the beak.As well as giving them rope to hang themselves with the SoA and a lack of investors, the court date is also after the pay day and its associated cost.

Wages, VAT,PAYE and NI of about £4.5m. That rope may also include a non-payment of wages for a 5th month, which would allow PFC to sign their own death certificate.

 

As I understand it, this date wasn't set by the beak. It was the FIRST available date in a crowded court schedule. So it's just a fortunate (or unfortunate) coincidence really.

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Weston Saint

Weston Saint

Posted
Posted
WS thanks for that....

 

So what you just said is that they went to Court & took the cheap option...

 

and that nearly cost them everything :smt033

Quite possibly.

 

I took a case to Commercial Court. I had (senior) Junior Counsel very experienced in the type of case. A week before the hearing in London before a very senior Judge we found out the other side had a QC. I was happy with my Counsel but she was uncomfortable and we went with a QC. Hearing was only half a day and he cost me £7,500 for the day's brief as well as her £3,500 to act as his Junior.

 

She had advised our QC against a certain approach, he went at it like a bull at a gate telling the Judge he had made a similar favourable decision previously. He smiled at my QC and said "yes and it is in the Appreal Court at present" We still had the Judgement handed down in our favour. He was able to bully their QC a little whereas the Junior would not have done the same.

 

Good QC now would charge about £10,000 for the Brief and his Junior (same counsel as PFC used before about £5,000

 

Conference before would cost about £3,000 and would likely include senior partner from Vantis charging about another £1,000.

 

On top of that would be Solicitor representing PFC charging about £400 per hour.

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bridge too far

bridge too far

Posted
Posted
Agree. My costing are conservative as well. I have been retired from that sort of work for 6 years.

 

Until very recently I was an auditor and my day rate was about £450. Given the short time that Vantis had to go through the books, I would imagine they used a very senior and a comparative junior auditor / forensic accountant at £1200 a day for a week on top of the legal advice.

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