Pompey Takeover Saga

[Saint Keith]

conned vantis allthetime

 

cant value assets

 

completely vacuous arseholes

[Winchester Red]

It really was an odd request (if they did ask), because in addition to the vastly reduced value they'd receive from their weak negotiating position, no other club is going to give them the whole fee up front anyway.

 

Eg. If Belhadj is worth £6m normally, the most they'd get now is about £3m (as he can't play for the rest of the year), and then the buying club would only want to pay 25% up front anyway, so they'd only get £750k now and the rest over the contract.

 

...and let's face it. If they don't get money in now they're f*cked and Belhadj is their best asset

[Winchester Red]

Sounds to me like they are desperatly trying to keep hold of the books.....

 

Nail...Head...

 

Letting the truth out will hurt on many levels for PFC and the EPL

[Fowllyd]

I suspect that the £1.8M will be the total wage bill for ALL staff including, office, groundstaff, stewards, caterers, PS and directors, Avram (IF they're actually paying him). Those we've signed in the last year will almost certainly be on less than 10k a week.

 

In a way, the fact that we've had to sell virtually the whole first team already should take the 'shock' factor out of the equation if indeed we do go down. If most of the decent players have already departed it might mean there will be less chance of going straight through the CCC into L1, even though there will still be some loanee's to go back.

 

Having said that we could be in the Hampshire league if it all goes tits up

 

If I remember things aright, the £1.8M figure was simply the shortfall on a particular month's salary payments, which then had to be made up with the assistance of the good Mr Chainrai (or was it somebody else - so easy to lose track). The actual figure for monthly salary payments was, and almost certainly still is, considerably higher. True, two players went during the January window, one of whom (Kaboul) would certainly have been on a fair old whack; but more players have since joined on frees, so that will have notched the total back up a little.

[Gingeletiss]

HMRC have said that they will be having a good look at this tax loophole!!!

 

Long, but interesting..................

 

 

Tax will become a four-letter word for many clubs this season. Having last week faced Portsmouth, Cardiff City and Southend United in the winding-up courts as it gets tough over unpaid taxes and taken on Milan Mandaric, Peter Storrie and Harry Redknapp over alleged evasion, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs is now pursuing more than half of the clubs in the Premier League over tax due on image rights payments totalling £60m.

 

The stand-off between tax authorities and Premier League clubs, some operating on a fiscal tightrope, is set to intensify after it emerged that they were unlikely to reach agreement on a collective deal.

 

Discussions between representatives of all 20 top-flight clubs, led by the Premier League's finance director Javed Khan, explored whether they could agree a structure of payments to satisfy demands from HMRC over claims for up to £60m in unpaid taxes and devise a workable ongoing solution.

 

HMRC officials have already agreed a deal with rugby union for the professional game to pay a percentage of its image rights fees directly to the taxman in settlement, but it is believed that a similar deal is highly unlikely within football because of the complexities involved.

 

Amid all the dissection of Manchester United's recent £504m bond issue, the club's ongoing dispute with HMRC over £5.3m in outstanding tax and *national *insurance was largely overlooked. The prospectus said the Revenue's view was that "image rights may be a form of remuneration and, as such, should be taxed as income". The club, which under the Glazer family's ownership has been increasingly focused on maximising the revenue-*generating potential of its best known players overseas, disputes that view.

 

The to and fro with the taxman goes back more than a decade to a landmark case involving Arsenal players, which the Revenue lost, but has intensified in recent years as public finances have come under pressure. The extent to which public sentiment has swung away from apparently reckless football clubs may also be a factor.

 

When the Premier League boom *began, with the attendant explosion in revenues and influx of foreign players, some began to demand separate payments in order to license their individual image rights, which would *typically be free of PAYE and national insurance and often channelled through an offshore company. Eric Cantona was among the first of the high-profile imports to recognise the commercial value of his individual image rights.

 

It soon became a standard part of contract negotiations, with most players able to argue that the club benefited from their image in some way – even if only by selling shirts with their names on the back.

 

Now, almost every Premier League *contract of any substance will have an *image rights clause. It recently emerged in court that Wayne Rooney earned £760,000 a year for his image rights via two separate annual payments. Experienced agents say that the concept was invented for good reason, and remained legitimate, but conceded it had been exploited by some clubs and players.

 

The argument is less about the eminently marketable likes of Rooney, more about squad players in mid-table teams who are typically paid around 10% of their salary for their image rights. The clubs *argue that the payments are wholly legitimate *licensing payments. But the Revenue suspects that in some cases image rights contracts have simply become a standard top-up to an employment contract and in others are simply a means to an end to allow them to dangle a bigger net-earnings carrot in front of a transfer target.

 

With Spain, Italy and France all having more *advantageous tax regimes for overseas players – particularly since the new 50% tax rate was announced in the UK – clubs have also looked to every possible avenue to maximise their appeal. A spokesman for HMRC said it could not comment on individual cases but added: "The government remains committed to ensuring that everyone pays their fair share of tax and that the minority who seek not to do so should not succeed." It said the onus was on any business to clear any transactions over which there was any "uncertainty" with HMRC.

 

Rather than going after *individual contracts, in 2006 the Revenue decided to take a more structured approach. It discovered that many image rights deals were based on games played or goals scored, clearly linking them with the players' employment contracts. Investigators examine correspondence between players, agents, clubs and accountants in order to try to prove the link.

 

HMRC set up a specific unit to investigate and negotiate settlements with clubs. Anecdotal stories abound of players and their agents agreeing a contract and then, at the last minute, demanding an extra annual image rights payment on top. The onus is now on clubs to prove that image rights are of real value and are *exploited as such. That could leave smaller Premier League clubs such as Wigan Athletic, who last year confirmed in their accounts that HMRC was investigating the issue, more exposed than those at the top end. At least half of Premier League clubs are now thought to be under investigation.

 

A Premier League spokesman *confirmed that it was continuing to try to broker a deal. "Discussions are ongoing with HMRC to try to reach a mutually acceptable position. Both sides agree that it is acceptable for the assignment of a proportion of income to image rights, however the question is how best to decide what is a reasonable level across a multitude of varying contracts and levels of player."

 

But tax experts are sceptical that the Premier League will be able to come up with a *solution that suits the Revenue. If it cannot, individual clubs will have to resume their own negotiations.

 

"They won't do a percentage deal across the board, I could never see HMRC agreeing to that. Within a club they might have two image rights deals that are commercial and a number that aren't, so it is not possible to enter into a percentage deal," said Jeff Millington, a senior tax adviser at BTG Tax and a former manager at the Revenue, one of two who originally instigated its investigation into image rights.

 

"There is a precedent that a club can acquire the image rights of a player through an image rights contract for the purpose of exploiting that image. But it's got to be for commercial reasons and you've got to look at each specific one to make sure it's commercial and the club has tried to exploit it. I'd be amazed if the HMRC agreed to talks. It flies in the face of everything the Revenue is trying to achieve."

[Lets B Avenue]

Could Vanish Anytime.

 

Can Vanish Anytime

 

Ahem!!

[Gingeletiss]

Ahem!!

 

 

OOps:(

[PES]

Knowing how Poopey operate, they probably genuinely expect to be able to sell the player, get the new buyer to pay up front, then cover the wage bill while he is loaned back to them for free for the rest of the season because he can't play for his new team

 

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

[View From The Top]

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

Especially when clubs know that they can get them for free a little further down the line.

[PES]

Especially when clubs know that they can get them for free a little further down the line.

 

And hardly anything was being spent, yourselves excluded.

[Chin Strain]

I suspect that the £1.8M will be the total wage bill for ALL staff including, office, groundstaff, stewards, caterers, PS and directors, Avram (IF they're actually paying him). Those we've signed in the last year will almost certainly be on less than 10k a week.

 

 

No chance IMHO. Storrie himself said the wage bill was £55m p.a., and they'd chopped a third off that. Therefore I reckon you're looking at £3m per month. I suspect the £1.8m has been grabbed hold of as being '[the wage bill' as that was how much you were short in December. Or, maybe the wage bill is £3m, and the am ount paid to players after you've deducted PAYE, NI etc (oh, and kept it for yourselves!) is £1.8m.

 

Just adding up a few players contracts and the amount seems too low. If you assume £250k per month for James, £100k per month for the likes of Herraidersson, Diop, Storrie etc, plus whatever Utaka earns, it's going to be way higher than £1.8m.

[Chin Strain]

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

I'm sure if Pompey had approached the FA / FIFA to allow Boateng to move, despite the 2 club rule, they would have allowed it. He would certainly have had takers. Belhadj would also have had takers. I really don't think they tried hard enough on the basis that your only chance of not going into liquidation was to stay up. Now that's unlikely anyway, they're interested in offloading. Admin is just delayed liquidation, so they've gambled everything on players staying and it's failed

[Chin Strain]

And hardly anything was being spent, yourselves excluded.

 

We only spent around £1.5 - £2m....half of what you 'spent' on Dinadane in August when you had no money!

[saintds]

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

Fair point, but if no one wanted the players in January, why would they want them now?

[tony13579]

Club Vanishes Away

[dronskisaint]

Goalie asks -'Do we know if Storrie is Jewish?'

 

Unsure but if moronic is a religion.....

[Gorgiesaint]

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

Actually Pompey may well have struggled to sell some of their players in January. I remember an article that was published about Newcastle towards the end of last season which explained why they might struggle to sell some of their top earners.

 

Basically, because the player has not asked for a transfer - he will still be due compensation for moving (a proportion of his remaining contract) & his remaining image rights. The article also indicated that any outstanding monies due to other clubs also become due - but this is something that Pompey certainly have not done with monies still outstanding for Glen Johnson & Sulley Muntari to name but two.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Court Vs Arab

Club Virtually Antique

Chairman Voiceless Again

Computer Virus Attacks................This an imminent statement from their accounts department

[Winchester Red]

Why is it so quiet down there?

 

Maybe they've given up?

 

I can't get used to the lack of spin and the friendly calls to The Mail/ESPN/Soccernet etc

[solentstars]

I suspect that the £1.8M will be the total wage bill for ALL staff including, office, groundstaff, stewards, caterers, PS and directors, Avram (IF they're actually paying him). Those we've signed in the last year will almost certainly be on less than 10k a week.

 

In a way, the fact that we've had to sell virtually the whole first team already should take the 'shock' factor out of the equation if indeed we do go down. If most of the decent players have already departed it might mean there will be less chance of going straight through the CCC into L1, even though there will still be some loanee's to go back.

 

Having said that we could be in the Hampshire league if it all goes tits up

 

its the staff i feel sorry for,they are the real victims in this farce.

[Fowllyd]

Goalie asks -'Do we know if Storrie is Jewish?'

 

Unsure but if moronic is a religion.....

 

Maybe he's a dyslexic Mormon!

[Robsk II]

What the **** is this thread doing? Half a million views, thousands of replies, mostly utter drivel. Good old internet.

[dronskisaint]

Maybe he's a dyslexic Mormon!

 

Mormonic...there's a thought! Probably a religious excuse for trousering 10% of all transfer fees...which makes Bagpuss a convert?

 

[Winchester Red]

SSN now reporting that they've asked the EPL and FIFA to let them sell players outside the window

 

I think that's an indication they know what the judgement will be on March 1. They want to get money in whatever it takes and their latest owner isn't going to give it to them

Edited 18 February, 2010 by Winchester Red

[SO16_Saint]

Why oh why would Pompey need to sell players outside the transfer window if they have 2 serious bidders waiting in the wings???

[NickG]

so, no news then?

[trousers]

What the **** is this thread doing? Half a million views, thousands of replies, mostly utter drivel. Good old internet.

 

'thousands of replies'......+1

 

Ooops.....+2

[InvictaSaint]

SSN now reporting that they've asked the EPL and FIFA to let them sell players outside the window

 

I think that's an indication they know what the judgement will be on March 1. They want to get money in whatever it takes and their latest owner isn't going to give it to them

 

Unbelievable, truly unbelievable; the brass balls on PFC are incredible.

 

PFC: "Can we sell players outside the transfer window?"

 

EPL/FIFA: "Yes of course you can. We are happy to instantly make our league 100% uncompetetive by allowing one club to sell players, whilst others cannot - players who may ultimately see to the relegation of another member club, who may not have been able to buy players outside the window."

 

PFC: "Wow! Really?"

 

EPL/FIFA: "No. Not really. ****s"

 

(Three hours later on ESPN)

 

"ESPN can exclusively reveal that the mean and nasty Premier League and the even nastier FIFA have shockingly refused Portsmouth the opportunity to make money outside the transfer window when other less important or troubled clubs are not allowed to sell players. Chief Executive Peter Storrie-teller told ESPN "It is quite incredible. I have had 3 emails and a post-it note from potential buyers of Portsmouth Football Club from Nigeria, who all tell me they may possibly potentially be able to think about eventually considering considering making an offer for PFC (perhaps). This will guarantee our income, so why won't the Premier League make an exception just this once when we are so special and deserving of special treatment? It just isn't fair. Now....where's my monthly salary."

[merrimd]

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

Aheeem..

 

Sky Sports

7th January 2010

 

Portsmouth chief executive Peter Storrie has told the club's supporters that there will be no mass exodus of players during the January transfer window.

"There have been (enquiries about players). I've had one or two calls and one or two people think because of the press coverage that there's some kind of firesale on - that's not the case."

 

Not what the StoryTeller was saying.....

[beatlesaint]

Why oh why would Pompey need to sell players outside the transfer window if they have 2 serious bidders waiting in the wings???

 

I know this is gonna be hard to believe given their impeccable track record but perhaps they dont really have 2 serious bidders waiting in the wings

[Gorgiesaint]

Actually Pompey may well have struggled to sell some of their players in January. I remember an article that was published about Newcastle towards the end of last season which explained why they might struggle to sell some of their top earners.

 

Basically, because the player has not asked for a transfer - he will still be due compensation for moving (a proportion of his remaining contract) & his remaining image rights. The article also indicated that any outstanding monies due to other clubs also become due - but this is something that Pompey certainly have not done with monies still outstanding for Glen Johnson & Sulley Muntari to name but two.

 

Aha, found it. Some very interesting lessons in this - perhaps Sorrie teller might have learnt something if he'd taken the time to read it.

 

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=1549

[Thedelldays]

http://www.fansonline.net/pompey-fans/article.php?id=175

 

 

wowzers....!!!!!!

[Third Division South Days]

SSN now reporting that they've asked the EPL and FIFA to let them sell players outside the window

 

I think that's an indication they know what the judgement will be on March 1. They want to get money in whatever it takes and their latest owner isn't going to give it to them

 

You would expect the EPL to do the distribution of any cash to ensure it goes to creditors. (particularly non playing staff)

[Matthew Le God]

Even if the PL allow it as would help reduce the problems of 19 teams, I don't see why FIFA would agree as it sets a precedent and Pompey could have sold them in January.

[dubai_phil]

What the **** is this thread doing? Half a million views, thousands of replies, mostly utter drivel. Good old internet.

 

On befhalf of the Thread, may I humbly apologise.

 

Unfortunately, due to circumstances beyond our control, events of the past 4 days have been happeneing at such a fast pace that today has been the first chance in a long while for your weary but serious dudes to catch a breather.

 

I will admit to having spent my free time productively buying tickets for the Twenty20 here tomorrow (Where the hell did I put my Barmy Army hat?).

 

Others have been catching up with newly conceived and then delivered Grandchildren, paying the electricity bills (unlike our Nemesis) and have generally been recharging their batteries before re-engaging in a few moments of Completely Vigilant Attention to the situation down the road.

 

Do not fear, this thread will be safely back on course once those fine upstanding heroes at HMRC have completely recovered from the injuries inflicted by their rolling on the floor laughing at the latest set of paperwork.

Edited 18 February, 2010 by dubai_phil

[andysstuff]

Aheeem..

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PES

EVERY pompey player was up for sale in January, players can't be forced to move or clubs forced to purchase.

 

Aheeem..

 

Sky Sports

7th January 2010

 

 

Quote:

Portsmouth chief executive Peter Storrie has told the club's supporters that there will be no mass exodus of players during the January transfer window.

"There have been (enquiries about players). I've had one or two calls and one or two people think because of the press coverage that there's some kind of firesale on - that's not the case."

 

Not what the StoryTeller was saying.....

..

 

LOL - its the mythical 'one or two calls' again. hy does he never get three of four??

[Weston Saint]

PFC request to reopen the window for sales now confirmed by BBC.

 

Final throw of the dice? You bet it is.

 

Interestingly however, if PL, FA & Fifa agree if any club buy their players to play them that opens the window for them as well. So you would have to open the European window fully.

 

And then the question- why have you signed two out of contract players after the window if you are desparate to sell?

 

Short shift "no way", I would think

[SO16_Saint]

I know this is gonna be hard to believe given their impeccable track record but perhaps they dont really have 2 serious bidders waiting in the wings

 

 

but didnt the honurable (ahem) Mr Storie (or one of his cronies, sorry, staff) say - under oath - that they had 2 interested parties?

 

Surely they wouldnt have made that up - surely - no way - never... :cool:

[TopGun]

Sets a serious precedent if the PL caves into Pompey's request.

 

Total a%rseholes.

 

Why should the PL bail out this rotton club?

[Pancake]

What the **** is this thread doing? Half a million views, thousands of replies, mostly utter drivel. Good old internet.

 

Behave yourself, if you dont like a thread dont read or comment on it.

[bridge too far]

Sets a serious precedent if the PL caves into Pompey's request.

 

Total a%rseholes.

 

Why should the PL bail out this rotton club?

 

Why indeed. And why should it be necessary? After all, they're going to be taken over any day now

[Minsk]

Creative Viewers' Acronyms

[Gingeletiss]

http://www.fansonline.net/pompey-fans/article.php?id=175

 

 

wowzers....!!!!!!

 

You just woke up!!!!.....oh yeh forgot, you don't sleep:rolleyes:..read back a couple of pages, this was discussed.

[Chez]

they can sell their players to Russian clubs can't they?

[jawillwill]

On the Beeb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8522283.stm

[Torrent Of Abuse]

Conmen, Vagabonds and Aquarium-Dwellers (Good title for the book?)

Chipperfields Version of Accounting.

 

I'll stop now

[saint lard]

Words fail to discribe the disgust i feel for Portsmouth Football club at this moment in time.

Every trick in the book is being played.

Crooked from top to bottom.

The transfer embargo should have never been even considered to have been lifted.

They are a disgrace.

 

Sorry if this offends some, but i truly hope the club,as it is,goes out of exsistance asap.

Cheating the fans,cheating the HMRC,cheating other clubs with now trying to gain an advantage with a transfer window just for them.

Nothing but lies and deceit.

Let the club die,for the sake of football and any shred of decency left in the game.

[SO16_Saint]

On the Beeb:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8522283.stm

 

wow.

 

what a f*cking informative report, that is

[Minsk]

SSN now reporting that they've asked the EPL and FIFA to let them sell players outside the window

 

I think that's an indication they know what the judgement will be on March 1. They want to get money in whatever it takes and their latest owner isn't going to give it to them

 

I'm pretty sure that the transfer window is open countries where this is the close season (Russia, Norway, etc) so I would assume they could sell to teams in those leagues anyway? Or would they only be able to loan until June?

 

Either way, this really isn't going to happen; and it indicates a number of things (which others have pointed out) by them asking for it.

 

Good times ahead methinks!

[JackFrost]

they can sell their players to Russian clubs can't they?

 

don't know, the Russian season begins next month so possibly