Chez Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Not. will we hear a response from HMRC today good or bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Can someone answer me a really basic question about this. if the club is woun up, do the HMRC get ANY of the money they are owed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Can someone answer me a really basic question about this. if the club is woun up, do the HMRC get ANY of the money they are owed? They might get a bit from the sale of assets (players walk free on liquidation). Their main aim is not to get pompeys money but to scare the begesus out of other clubs to pay their tax bills on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Can someone answer me a really basic question about this. if the club is woun up, do the HMRC get ANY of the money they are owed? Probably not but will cut any future losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 If its correct, and it cetainly seems to make sense, then it would explain why the HMRC are so keen to liquidate rather than allow administration. Just makes me want the HMRC to win the WUO even more, its the only way that justice will be done against the likes of Storrie. It's getting to the point where I don't care if it's the HMRC, Israeli debt collectors or a mob of PFC fans who 'visit' Storrie, as long as someone does. If half of the rumours are true then he shouldn't be able to walk away from this mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Can someone answer me a really basic question about this. if the club is woun up, do the HMRC get ANY of the money they are owed? Probably a very small amount, but they are more interested in negating future losses. They would like all their employees to go and work for someone who will pass on the PAYE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Is this Storrie at the hands of the HMRC 'Your insolvent' 'No, no I'm not' 'Yes you are, you haven't got any f*cking cash' 'tis but a flesh wound' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Probably a very small amount, but they are more interested in negating future losses. They would like all their employees to go and work for someone who will pass on the PAYE This what confuses me then. Surely the better bet for the HMRC would be to allow PFC to go in to Administration. That way they will get back x% of what they are owed if/when the club are bought out; plus the incentive of future payments from the club when they continue trading. If the club isnt bought out druing the Administration period, they are then wound up. It just seems to me that by winding the club up no before allowing them the best chance they have of getting a new owner (ie, Administration), they are cutting of a future revenue source. I just find it a bit odd. Im sure Ive missed something blindingly obvious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Can someone answer me a really basic question about this. if the club is woun up, do the HMRC get ANY of the money they are owed? Only a share of what any assets that can be sold off can raise. However, more importantly, they will be protecting themselves (us) from any future failures to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 This what confuses me then. Surely the better bet for the HMRC would be to allow PFC to go in to Administration. That way they will get back x% of what they are owed if/when the club are bought out; plus the incentive of future payments from the club when they continue trading. If the club isnt bought out druing the Administration period, they are then wound up. It just seems to me that by winding the club up no before allowing them the best chance they have of getting a new owner (ie, Administration), they are cutting of a future revenue source. I just find it a bit odd. Im sure Ive missed something blindingly obvious.... I would imagine that the HMRC think they are so insolvent that admin will just mean yet another month of unpaid debts Plus I think they want to make an example so as to get all the other clubs to get up to date with their payments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 As indeed happened to Excelsior Mouscron already this season in the Belgian top flight! All records expunged after their liquidation and the league goes on. No its only to do with saving face in the eyes of world football, but given the high profile of this shambles the face has already drooped ! I think something similar has also happened to FC Moscow in the Russian premier League. I never thought I'd be wholeheartedly supporting HMRC's actions in anything but there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 There was a good interview with Greg Dyke recently. He said that since the HMRC lost their preferred creditor status football clubs have been using them as an unofficial overdraft. The HMRC want to stop this practise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Avram on SSN,really does not think the 'special' transfer window for PFC is a good idea for the club or football in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 I would imagine that the HMRC think they are so insolvent that admin will just mean yet another month of unpaid debts Plus I think they want to make an example so as to get all the other clubs to get up to date with their payments Yeah, I get both those points, but if it was me, I would offer them 1 final chance to get a proper take over sorted and generate a percentage of the debt owed to all and sundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysstuff Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 This what confuses me then. Surely the better bet for the HMRC would be to allow PFC to go in to Administration. That way they will get back x% of what they are owed if/when the club are bought out; plus the incentive of future payments from the club when they continue trading. If the club isnt bought out druing the Administration period, they are then wound up. It just seems to me that by winding the club up no before allowing them the best chance they have of getting a new owner (ie, Administration), they are cutting of a future revenue source. I just find it a bit odd. Im sure Ive missed something blindingly obvious.... See post 15252 - thought seems to be that the Directors would become personally liable if liquidated, rather than a few pence in the pound in Administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Only a share of what any assets that can be sold off can raise. However, more importantly, they will be protecting themselves (us) from any future failures to pay. If they are wound up because they are insolvent, can't HMRC claim the directors are personally liable and recover the monies from them ? ( Seems Andy just beat me to it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the colonel Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 PMSL. Talk about rewriting history. 1. You lot "didn't blame" anyone? What a ****ing hypocrite. This board was full of various factions blaming Lowe for not investing, Wilde for overspending, Crouch for not putting his own money in etc etc etc. 2. You spent your time trying to do something and we haven't? What, like the Save Saints charity match that no-one bought tickets for. Or a march to the ground (hang on, who's fans have just done that as well?) Or being the first fans group to actually manage to gain a meeting with the Premier League? 3. As for West Ham's parent company, the slight diference there is they actually have other businesses, unlike SLH which was clearly just Southampton FC. 4. As for selling players two weeks ago, we tried to sell various players like Utaka, Mullins and James. No takers. We couldn't sell the ones who would bring in bigger fees for various reasons (Boateng because he's already played for two clubs this season, Belhadj because he was at the ACN). 5. And the reason we're laying some (not all) of the blame with the PL is because they've allowed a bunch of criminals to take our club to the brink of non - existence. If that was happening to your club would you not be saying they had some sort of duty to police whoever takes control of clubs? Get off your ****ing pedestal for once, you smug ****. FFS I Don’t normally respond to you because you don't seem to have much of a clue about anything. No wonder you have been sent on gardening leave. 1. Yes we blamed those that were supposed to be running the club not the Premier league not the Football League not the Media not anyone else who happens to get involved with a shhiitte hole of club called pompey. 2. Save Our Saints game came after £120k had already been raised by fans to keep the club afloat. Yes you had a couple of hundred fans march on FP wow...well done. 3. SLH did own other businesses that were sold to stave off administration. Admittedly at the end SFC was the only thing left. The FA admitted they changed the rules to ensure Saints where given -10. 4. And the other you couldn't sell them and others was because they are on stupid wages no other club would match. 5. The reason you are blaming the Premier league is because you don't want to face the FACT that it is your club's own fault you are in the SHHiiTTE. Were you blaming to the PL when you 'won' the FA Cup? No, you were loving it and couldn't careless where the money was coming from.....now you have you pay the piper. So before you start getting at others and calling them names (which usually comes about when someone knows they are on a losing wicket) get over yourself, take you head out of the clouds and understand that no-one cares about your shiiittte little club. The only reason other clubs are considering helping is because they know they will be worse off for point if you lot disappear, after all how many clubs haven’t taken points off you ermmmm three I think?. If it wasn't for that I'm sure the Premier league and PL clubs would be glad to see the back of you. And the Football League won't want to pick up the pieces either so they woould be happy to see you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 will we hear a response from HMRC today good or bad? Pompey will. We might get a sniff, but I doubt it. Anyway, the consensus in the press seems to be that the SoA does indeed show that they are insolvent. Hence the panic to get their hands on some cash before the hearing, by hook or by crook. With them, it's usually the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Yeah, I get both those points, but if it was me, I would offer them 1 final chance to get a proper take over sorted and generate a percentage of the debt owed to all and sundry. When does one last chance end? They're on their fourth owner this year. This has been going on since October. Pancake.... I admire your tolerence, but I fear you would just give Storrie even more space to lie cheat and steal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 See post 15252 - thought seems to be that the Directors would become personally liable if liquidated, rather than a few pence in the pound in Administration. Ok, that makes some sense. So Storrie, Chainrai, Al faraj, tanya thingy, Al Fahim et al would be chased down/sued for the ENTITE 11+ Million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Avram on SSN,really does not think the 'special' transfer window for PFC is a good idea for the club or football in general. Double Agent Avram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Yesterday's 5 live skate fan forum - a great listen as earlier comments on the thread testify. standout moments http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qs9py/5_live_Sport_Portsmouth_Fans_Forum/ 48m 45s on sol campbell 52m 40s on inbred conspiracy theories, we're a more attractive investment than west ham, newcastle and claridge's killer reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 This what confuses me then. Surely the better bet for the HMRC would be to allow PFC to go in to Administration. That way they will get back x% of what they are owed if/when the club are bought out; plus the incentive of future payments from the club when they continue trading. If the club isnt bought out druing the Administration period, they are then wound up. It just seems to me that by winding the club up no before allowing them the best chance they have of getting a new owner (ie, Administration), they are cutting of a future revenue source. I just find it a bit odd. Im sure Ive missed something blindingly obvious.... HMRC realise they may not get anything in this instance but by winding Pompey up it sends a message out that they will not baulk at winding up any club that owe them money. For decades the revenue have been taken as idiots by most football clubs. They have drawn a line in the sand and so it has sent tremors through the football world. Clubs will now pay up smartly, so in turn in the long run the revenue will get paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Pompey will. We might get a sniff, but I doubt it. Anyway, the consensus in the press seems to be that the SoA does indeed show that they are insolvent. Hence the panic to get their hands on some cash before the hearing, by hook or by crook. With them, it's usually the latter. Presumably though we would hear if they decided to drop the case if the SoA claerly showed they were solvent and able to meet their commitments, so in this case , no news is indeed good news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Ok, that makes some sense. So Storrie, Chainrai, Al faraj, tanya thingy, Al Fahim et al would be chased down/sued for the ENTITE 11+ Million? That would seem to be the case which explains why SBT is desperately trying to resign as chairman and Storrie is dropping his pants at every passing Hong Kong or South African businessman. Also explains that despite our debts a year ago, Rupert was scrupulously ensuring that dues to HMRC were paid on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 HMRC realise they may not get anything in this instance but by winding Pompey up it sends a message out that they will not baulk at winding up any club that owe them money. For decades the revenue have been taken as idiots by most football clubs. They have drawn a line in the sand and so it has sent tremors through the football world. Clubs will now pay up smartly, so in turn in the long run the revenue will get paid The PL/FL "football debts take priority" rule pretty much means that HMRC are shafted, along with the other ordinary creditors. The only way HMRC would get anything out of this particular mess is if a takeover happens, and the debts are paid by a new owner. Mrs. Registrar Derrett will be very much aware of this, which will be a serious consideration if HMRC decide to proceed with the petition in light of the content of the SoA. It will signal that HMRC's experts don't think there's a cat's chance in hell of a new owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Sorry Pancake, they deserve no more time extensions, no more favours, no more leniancy. The reason they got the seven days was to prove they were solvent - and for Storyteller to deliver 'evidence' of new investors that would allow them to trade solvently til the end of the season. It seems to me that they are still p1ssing in the wind. How convenient that the latest one wants 28days Due Diligence..... Just another 10 weeks after that til the Sky money turns up.... LET THAT CLUB DIE AND GIVE THOSE FANS THEIR CLUB BACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Also explains that despite our debts a year ago, Rupert was scrupulously ensuring that dues to HMRC were paid on time. The minute Barclays failed to honour a cheque, Lowe placed us in admin, he said to do otherwise risked Trading whilst insolvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Presumably though we would hear if they decided to drop the case if the SoA claerly showed they were solvent and able to meet their commitments, so in this case , no news is indeed good news Not neccessarily, Sussex. The SoA is actually a bit of a sideshow. The main action is the WUP, so even if the SoA shows beyond a shadow of doubt that they are solvent, they may well continue with the petition unless and until they get paid. Having said that, it seems to me that in order to be solvent they would have to have the ability to pay HMRC what they owe now immediately. Clearly they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Red Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 The minute Barclays failed to honour a cheque, Lowe placed us in admin, he said to do otherwise risked Trading whilst insolvent. I somehow can't imagine Rupert Lowe risking being personally responsible for additional debt (or anything come to that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 That would seem to be the case which explains why SBT is desperately trying to resign as chairman and Storrie is dropping his pants at every passing Hong Kong or South African businessman. Note to self. Stay well clear of FP for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 The minute Barclays failed to honour a cheque, Lowe placed us in admin, he said to do otherwise risked Trading whilst insolvent. Exactly, as by doing this and paying our dues on time to HMRC he ensured that his bottom was covered too. However, he acted honorably in such circumstances which is more than can be said for Storrie-Boy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 So we are all agreed, Poopy deserve what they get!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Not surprised that according to reports the other PL teams don't want to allow Poopey to sell players outside of the window. Chances are one or two teams are going to benefit from buying those players for a bargain and that the remaining PL teams lose out. Not a gamble worth taking for the other teams. Rules are there to be obeyed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 (edited) SSN say they will be reporting new developments in the request for PFC to sell players shortly........ They believe there will be an announcement in the next couple of hours from FIFA,and that all governing bodies will do all they can to asisst PFC. Edited 19 February, 2010 by saint lard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedg Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 SSN say they will be reporting new develoments in the request for PFC to sell players shortly. Let me guess, it was all a mixup and actually they are trying to turn FP into a tobacconists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Interesting debate on 606: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A63481016 If the club were allowed to sell their half-decent players they would be left with an even worse team than they played the first half of the season - this would give an advantage to teams yet to play them... Whereas, when Gordon Ferquhar said "if Portsmouth go under all their points would be cancelled and the league table would be falsely affected", he has failed to back that up with any logic - surely if all points were cancelled then everyone gets zero - and this is totally fair. It happens in many other leagues at lower levels, and other sports - because it's 'fair'. Ask anyone that has played FA grass roots football and they'll confirm that if a team drops out the points are cancelled for all. I think the whole thing's a rat's nest. Does anyone know if yellow and red cards are rescinded too? It's also unfair as players could have been injured playing against Pompey and missed subsequent games. If Pompey are bailed out but given a points penalty meaning certain relegation, where's the guarantee that their players will put in the level of effort put in previously? I'm not questioning players' professionalism but there is a psychological factor. And can anyone explain why they need FIFA's permission to sell players who wouldn't be playing until August anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 (edited) Sky: The FA, PL and FIFA will do everything they can to keep Portsmouth alive HMRC are doing everything they can to kill them Edited 19 February, 2010 by Katalinic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 My mate just said something intresting (a rare event that!) Surely if FIFA do allow this "skate window" they should firstly give back O'Hara, Dindane etc etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Also id wet myself if they opened the "skate window" and no one purchased any of their players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Not surprised that according to reports the other PL teams don't want to allow Poopey to sell players outside of the window. Chances are one or two teams are going to benefit from buying those players for a bargain and that the remaining PL teams lose out. Not a gamble worth taking for the other teams. Rules are there to be obeyed To be fair, the reports/quotes I've seen are from PL managers. If it needs a vote, it will be the Chairmen who vote, presumably acting on the instructions of owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Sky: The FA, PL and FIFA will do everything they can to keep Portsmouth alive Mouscron and FC Moscow will be seething at that news no doubt!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 If they open the window, its nothing short of an absolute insult - an unprecedented disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Mouscron and FC Moscow will be seething at that news no doubt!!!!! Indeed, although doing everything they can and being seen to be doing everything they can are two different things. If they are wound up it is irrelevant anyway. If they are assisted then I would hope that the sanctions imposed i.e. point deductions are in line with those dished out to clubs previously. Minus 9 this season and minus 30 next season would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Sky: The FA, PL and FIFA will do everything they can to keep Portsmouth alive HMRC are doing everything they can to kill them LOL ! Well let us hope that the FA do everything they can to keep Palace, Stockport, Bournemouth and Chester alive too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Note to self. Stay well clear of FP for the foreseeable future. tbf, a sensible policy at any time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 I would imagine that the HMRC think they are so insolvent that admin will just mean yet another month of unpaid debts Plus I think they want to make an example so as to get all the other clubs to get up to date with their payments Ummmmm!!!!, lots of little eddying circles taking place on this thread now. Same questions resurfacing. My understanding of this WO, is HMRC saying to the PL/FA, yep, you have won the right to pay footballing debts first, so now it's payback time. We will close your clubs down one by one, unless you pay on time, we are not the bank of HMRC, we do not lend, we do not give credit. You used the law to take us out of the loop, we will now use the law to teach you a lesson. PAY UP POMPEY...POMPEY PAY UP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Ummmmm!!!!, lots of little eddying circles taking place on this thread now. Same questions resurfacing. My understanding of this WO, is HMRC saying to the PL/FA, yep, you have won the right to pay footballing debts first, so now it's payback time. We will close your clubs down one by one, unless you pay on time, we are not the bank of HMRC, we do not lend, we do not give credit. You used the law to take us out of the loop, we will now use the law to teach you a lesson. PAY UP POMPEY...POMPEY PAY UP!! Love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombletomble Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 Is this Storrie at the hands of the HMRC 'Your insolvent' 'No, no I'm not' 'Yes you are, you haven't got any f*cking cash' 'tis but a flesh wound' Brilliant. I have been think for sometime how thi whole afair reminded me of this scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 February, 2010 Share Posted 19 February, 2010 The minute Barclays failed to honour a cheque, Lowe placed us in admin, he said to do otherwise risked Trading whilst insolvent. Lowe has his fingers in other pies. He couldn't risk being banned from being a company director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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