Why a whipping boy?

[Professor]

For as long as I have supported Saints, which is over 50 years, there has often been one player in the team that the fans pick on more than any other. I don't mean a fringe player struggling for a place, but someone that the manager thinks is worth his place, but who is constantly criticised by the fans.

In recent years it has been Rory Delap, then Paul Telfer, now it is Paul Wotton. Just wondering what people feel about the need for a whipping boy, and seeing that some of them go on to play at the top level for other teams, is the role always given to the right player! Who has been a whipping boy and deserved it, and who was better than the fans thought?

 

As for Wotton, Pardew obviously sees a role for him, although he does tend to be subbed, but maybe he's in the side as a steady influence while Murty is out of the team. But if a player is not the best player in the team, do they play any better for having the crowd on their backs?

[Glasgow_Saint]

someone has to be the scapegoat and right now Wotton fits the bill.

 

now that he has been identified as a 'weak link' he is under pressure to perform and any mistakes will be magnified.

 

normally the manager would be the whipping boy but AP has not been here long enough to criticise (although some have already started to question his formation) and other candidates (Lancashire, Perry, Thomas, BWP, Paterson, Euell ect) are out of the side or left.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It is the same in any team, it's not just a Saints thing. Society now runs off of a blame culture, so we always need someone to be responsible...

[Thedelldays]

i thought jermain wright was quite the whipping boy...lets face it, he was utter gash really

[Ewell]

Please add Jermaine Wright to your list.

 

What many people don’t seem to realise is you need different types of players to make a balanced team. For every Zidane there has to be a Deschamps. It is about time that people trusted our management and the players they pick. Why do people need a scapegoat? I don't really know but it is a rather sad state of affairs especially when experienced managers like Strachan, Burley and Pardew pick these guys week in week out. Do they know more than us? I think so.

[John B]

It is the same in any team, it's not just a Saints thing. Society now runs off of a blame culture, so we always need someone to be responsible...

 

I see what you mean Post 106

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=17655&page=3

[Faz]

Every village needs an idiot

[ManorHouseSaint]

Wotton is by no means a whipping boy. I have been to the last 2 games where he started both and we conceded 3 goals and scored none. He then gets taken off and we score 5! Coincidence? Hmmm, I think not. People say he is a steady influence, or protects the back four well. In my opinion, this is nonsense. He was absolutely appalling once again yesterday. At the end of the day he is a woeful footballer and should not be playing at this level. If we realistically want to climb this tough league then we cannot carry anyone, and currently we are when he plays.

 

We either need to change formation and keep the 442 with the ever improving David Connelly (in terms of fitness and general play) and I would drop Wotton or just replace him with someone else in the 451. I honestly cannot see that he brings anything to the team, in fact I believe that having him in the team is very much detrimental.

 

I would never boo Wotton, or any other Saints player for that matter. Wotton doesn't mean to be rubbish, he tries his hardest. But his best is not good enough, and it is up to Pardew to deal with this issue. When he has (subbing him) it has lead us into gaining 4 points, from having none when he was on the pitch.

 

You may have a point about Telfer and Delap etc being unnecessarily singled out for abuse, but I believe that Wotton hasn't been singled out. The negative comments have purely been down to his inept performances in the Saints shirt. Nothing more, nothing less.

[SaintDonkey]

I'd say James has been as much of a whipping boy as Wotten for some on here. The thing in common between James, Delap, Telfer and Wright is that they were all frequently asked to play out of position (all central midfielders asked to play right back).

 

I guess the thing is that they are all adapable players who can slot into different positions. They never shine but they get picked week in week out because they permit the manager a certain amount of freedom with formation changes and injuries. Hence more skillful, but less adaptable, players get dropped and the 'whipping boys' keep getting selected.

[Kingsland Red]

Deschamps was the 'water carrier', not sure Wotton fits that description,

[Ewell]

KR I would say he does. Wotton is obviously not in Deschamps class who in all honesty is one of the best, If not the best 'water carrier' there has ever been. Wotton is not fit enough to lace his boots just like he is not fit enough to lace the boots of any of the class acts listed below. We are in league 1 so his skills I believe are relative. All I am pointing out is that is the role he has in our team and that is a role that does need to be filled. There are not many candidates and if anyone’s says 'Schneiderlin' I will shoot them! I am not Wotton's biggest fan, in fact far from it but let’s give Pardew the benefit of the doubt as he obviously knows what he is doing!

 

Defensive midfielder

A defensive midfielder or a holding midfielder is a central midfielder who is stationed in front of the back defenders for defensive reasons, thus "holding back" the freedom of the opponents to attack. This specialist midfielder's responsibilities are to defend against or tackle the opposing team, to recover the ball for their own team, and to safely distribute it to more attacking-minded players.

 

Not only does the player protect his team's defence, he also gives his fellow midfielders the freedom to parade their more attacking flair without the worry of defensive work. For this reason, the holding midfielder may be one of the most important positions in football, as it allows the rest of the team to play a more aggressive game.

 

The defensive midfielder position is also referred to in Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese as "volante" (Spanish & Portuguese for "Rudder" or someone who gives direction), and in Portugal as a "trinco" (meaning "lock"). Eric Cantona once referred to Didier Deschamps as "the water carrier". This was originally intended as a derogatory term but is now an accepted alternative to "holding midfielder" in the UK. Most Brazilian teams deploy at least one "volante" in their team. This includes the Brazilian national team who have fielded some of the most famous defensive midfielders, such as 1994 World Cup winning team captain Dunga. The position is sometimes overlooked but it is a very important position in the modern game. It is a highly specialized position only executed successfully by very few talented players.

 

Perhaps the most typical case of a defensive midfielder is Claude Makelele. For both club (Chelsea, Real Madrid) and country (France), he plays right in front of the back four breaking up attacking movements. His tough yet accurate tackling skills and his decisive passing decisions have more than made up his weaker attacking abilities. When he played for Real Madrid, the modus operandi had been "Makelele wins the ball and passes it to Zidane." A similar partnership is established in Chelsea when he plays with Frank Lampard. Other well-known defensive midfielders include Dietmar Hamann, Gennaro Gattuso, Emerson, and Baraja.

 

http://en.allexperts.com/e/m/mi/midfielder.htm

[CanadaSaint]

Then there are players who come under the often-unfair and hastily-raised whip until A) they've had a chance to settle in and start playing better, B) the supporters start to better appreciate the things they bring, C) a combination of the two.

 

Kelvin and Kenwyne would be two of many, many examples over the years.

 

Some excellent players have been on the receiving end of this kind of criticism at various teams and various times.

 

But it also goes the other way. Much as I like the guy, I have no idea how Francis Benali became such a cult hero despite some absolutely hideous clangers.

 

As Ewell said "Do (managers) know more than us? I think so."

[JibMcdo]

We've had whipping boys recently because the players in question have been sh!te. We haven't been regelated twice because we've had great players. Some of them have been dross.

[benjii]

We've had whipping boys recently because the players in question have been sh!te. We haven't been regelated twice because we've had great players. Some of them have been dross.

 

A sage observation.

[Sanguin]

I think Waigo is doing his best to take this mantle from Wotton.

[pilsburydoughboy]

For years we have missed a midfielder who puts the boot in when needed.

Wooton is no Jimmy Case but he has a ****ing good go.We have had too many limp wristed midfielders in the past.We are in league one and need someone who is not a pretty boy footballer but someone who can kick people up in to win the ball and then lay it off.

Wooton is no whipping boy in my mind only in the mind of people who gave up going because they did not like the football last season.

[JibMcdo]

A sage observation.

 

Thanks

[Stanley Saint]

Please add Jermaine Wright to your list.

 

What many people don’t seem to realise is you need different types of players to make a balanced team. For every Zidane there has to be a Deschamps. It is about time that people trusted our management and the players they pick. Why do people need a scapegoat? I don't really know but it is a rather sad state of affairs especially when experienced managers like Strachan, Burley and Pardew pick these guys week in week out. Do they know more than us? I think so.

 

Totally agree with this. Many of the players singled out for the most abuse seem to get it in the neck after a couple of under-par moments, then never win back fans' affections no matter how well they play. I know Ricardo Fuller didn't exactly endear himself to fans here, but he's proved himself time and again at Stoke. Ally Dia apart, these players are all there to bring something to the team. By all means criticise if they mess up, but then move on and give them a chance to put it right. Blaming them for the rest of the season is only going to have one result: loss of confidence, team plays worse.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Totally agree with this. Many of the players singled out for the most abuse seem to get it in the neck after a couple of under-par moments, then never win back fans' affections no matter how well they play. I know Ricardo Fuller didn't exactly endear himself to fans here, but he's proved himself time and again at Stoke. Ally Dia apart, these players are all there to bring something to the team. By all means criticise if they mess up, but then move on and give them a chance to put it right. Blaming them for the rest of the season is only going to have one result: loss of confidence, team plays worse.

 

You've made the (surprisingly common) mistake of believing that opinions expressed on here have any effect whatsoever in the real (off line) world . Always remember that there are only a few hundred regular contributors on here compared to a fanbase of 30,000 or more - who are themselves largely powerless to be frank . Some examples :

 

Did years of savage criticism on here of the previous chairman (who's name cannot be mentioned) have a major bearing on his final demise - Not really it was Barclay's .

 

Is there any evidence that managers have ever listened to our opinions when selecting the team - No and nor should they .

 

When 9 out of 10 Saints fans clearly stated they wanted Nigel Pearson's retention as manager did it make any difference - Obviously not .

 

As for Paul Wotton for what it's worth I've seen this player play on numerous occasions and for the life of me I can't see anything more than your typical ageing journeyman player , not really worth a starting place in the team for my money . I say this in the sure and certain knowledge that my or any other Saintsweb opinion will not have the slightest influence on anything .

[Dig Dig]

A lot has been mentioned on this thread about the strengths of a holding midfield player but one of the key attributes needed is the ability to pass the ball to a team mate to allow play to build again.......for me Wottons passing is awful and he has that terrible habit of blind kicking the ball over his shoulder....something I often see at Sunday league football

 

We need a holding midfielder no doubt but it shouldn't be Wotton and many can see that, hence he's the whipping boy!

[Gorgiesaint]

A lot has been mentioned on this thread about the strengths of a holding midfield player but one of the key attributes needed is the ability to pass the ball to a team mate to allow play to build again.......for me Wottons passing is awful and he has that terrible habit of blind kicking the ball over his shoulder....something I often see at Sunday league football

 

We need a holding midfielder no doubt but it shouldn't be Wotton and many can see that, hence he's the whipping boy!

 

Wotton has been part of what has been a successful team over the last 6 or so games so he shouldn't be a whipping boy - no-one should. After all, he's going to be part of the team until January at the earliest. But that doesn't stop us looking around to see how we could improve the team further in January.

[eelpie]

Every village needs an idiot

 

Sometimes the idiot is wiser than the village.

[Professor]

You've made the (surprisingly common) mistake of believing that opinions expressed on here have any effect whatsoever in the real (off line) world . Always remember that there are only a few hundred regular contributors on here compared to a fanbase of 30,000 or more - who are themselves largely powerless to be frank . Some examples :

 

Did years of savage criticism on here of the previous chairman (who's name cannot be mentioned) have a major bearing on his final demise - Not really it was Barclay's .

 

Is there any evidence that managers have ever listened to our opinions when selecting the team - No and nor should they .

 

When 9 out of 10 Saints fans clearly stated they wanted Nigel Pearson's retention as manager did it make any difference - Obviously not .

 

As for Paul Wotton for what it's worth I've seen this player play on numerous occasions and for the life of me I can't see anything more than your typical ageing journeyman player , not really worth a starting place in the team for my money . I say this in the sure and certain knowledge that my or any other Saintsweb opinion will not have the slightest influence on anything .

 

I agree that no manager should act on the opinion of fans. We are, literally, ignorant of all the facts taken into account by the manager when he makes his team selections. But views expressed by fans outside of the ground are reflected in crowd noise during the game, booing etc. Dressing room chat also probably means that an unpopular player is aware of what some fans seem to think of him. Is there anything a manager can do, or should do, other than encourage his player to ignore it?

[Saint_clark]

If Gillett could have reproduced the form from last season he would have been perfect in that role. Nevermind.

Anyone, "whipping boy" and "scapegoat" are two terms I really hate. Why shouldn't we be trying to eliminate the weak points in our team?

[Arizona]

I'm don't think it's a case so much of having a whipping boy as having players who are regularly crap.

 

Wotton may have put in a few decent performances recently, but by and large he has been gash the rest of the time. Hence he has been criticised. As for the others... we didn't get relegated twice in 4 years by playing brilliant football.

 

There are always a few idiots who will never see a player have a good game because it fit's their outlook on the game. Generally however, most posters on here can recognise a decent performance from an inconsistent player and give them credit for it.

[Professor]

If Gillett could have reproduced the form from last season he would have been perfect in that role. Nevermind.

Anyone, "whipping boy" and "scapegoat" are two terms I really hate. Why shouldn't we be trying to eliminate the weak points in our team?

 

Agree about Gillet, but doesn't the argument about 'weak points' suggest that fans know better than the manager? He sees the players home and away, in games and at training, and has the advice of the coaching staff, while fans watch a game for 90 minutes once a fortnight. And if fans are actually trying to eliminate the weak point, is that best done by undermining a player's confidence so that he plays even worse? It might result in a change or it might just entrench the manager - eg Jermaine Wright - and in the meantime the team might not be at 100%. I know its wishful thinking, but I'd rather see the fans get behind the whole team and encourage even the less popular players.

[John B]

If Gillett could have reproduced the form from last season he would have been perfect in that role. Nevermind.

Anyone, "whipping boy" and "scapegoat" are two terms I really hate. Why shouldn't we be trying to eliminate the weak points in our team?

 

The problem is that in every team somebody will be the weakest player should he suffer because of that?

[dubai_phil]

Going back to the OP, it has always been so.

 

Terry Paine - Booed cries of Feck off you're past it, one trick pony towards the end of his time here.

Steve Williams - Booed, slammed for being a greedy little Cn*t, missing countless opportunities for the final ball and trying to beat one man too many - again.

Lawrie Mac walking to the dugout in his first season with spit dripping down his back

Alan Ball - regularly booed in his last season, almost the whole ground howled for him to be taken off in the 5-5 draw with Coventry when we had already used our sub after he needlessly gave the ball away and they scored (he made up for it scoring direct from the kickoff)

Franny Benali - Utter Sh8Te groans when he was picked, Under West Stand repeated shouts of you're rubbish and FFS pick someone who can pass - you colour blind you idiot , we're in RED

Terry Curran - well he DID deserve it 1 cross into the box in his time with us

Branfoot - enough said.

Jim Magilton - Sideways Jim

Jimmy Case - (see Terry Paine)

to name but a few

 

It IS a Saints thing, something happens and the crowd get at you and it sticks. Years later you cannot believe it, but it did happen.

[Badger]

For as long as I have supported Saints, which is over 50 years, there has often been one player in the team that the fans pick on more than any other. I

In recent years it has been Rory Delap, then Paul Telfer, now it is Paul Wotton.

 

I can echo that it has always been the case in my time.

 

I'm not sure it is unique to us though.

 

In my time supporting Saints the scapegoats I recall are:

 

Joe Kirkup - always seemed half asleep.

 

Hugh Fisher - in the post relegation era (1974 - 77 whilst he was with us) Hugh was the one routinely critiscised and villified,although he divided opinions of fans.Some (my father was one)regarded him a good ballwinning midfielder,others (including me) saw him as a potential liability who offered little.In truth during his time with Saints he probably satisfied both cases,the pivotal point being the Bob Wilson incident and his broken leg, understandably he was never the same player again.

Despite the critiscism at the time,even I acknowledge that Hugh Fisher played himself into Saints folklore with that equaliser v Villa,something my father never let me forget.I also remember how Fisher played vFulham in 1976 when the Best &Marsh circus came to The Dell.The announcement of HF in the line up was met with usual groans of disapproval and questions as to what the hell is Lawrie thinking of.However HF gave a great performance,putting Best in his pocket that afternoon.

 

Lew (Lady)Chatterley - played for us at a time when being a favourite of Lawrie was not a means of popularity having been brought in from his previous lower division club.

 

Ian Turner - as above,and also worsened by the fact he was clumsy and appeared the eventual replacement for Eric Martin.

 

Steve Baker - no comment.

 

Paul Moody/Ian Dowie - signed by Branfoot to fit with his gameplan.

 

Glenn(da) ****erill - probably stayed with us too long and stagnated.

 

Before my time I understand Jimmy Melia was the main focus for being "too gentlemanly" and shirking tackles.Even recently older relatives have described some of our more tackle shy players as "a bit like Jimmy Melia..".

Edited 2 November, 2009 by Badger

[rpb]

I'm don't think it's a case so much of having a whipping boy as having players who are regularly crap.

 

It also goes with the role that they have in the team - back in the 60's Ian White's job was to always get himself between the ball and our goal, he did this well but the crowd didn't appreciate his efforts very much.

 

Similarly, Jimmy Melia had the job of keeping us 'ticking over' but his numerous short passes sideways used to frustrate the fans who wanted an 'up and at 'em' approach.

[The9]

For as long as I have supported Saints, which is over 50 years, there has often been one player in the team that the fans pick on more than any other. I don't mean a fringe player struggling for a place, but someone that the manager thinks is worth his place, but who is constantly criticised by the fans.

In recent years it has been Rory Delap, then Paul Telfer, now it is Paul Wotton. Just wondering what people feel about the need for a whipping boy, and seeing that some of them go on to play at the top level for other teams, is the role always given to the right player! Who has been a whipping boy and deserved it, and who was better than the fans thought?

 

As for Wotton, Pardew obviously sees a role for him, although he does tend to be subbed, but maybe he's in the side as a steady influence while Murty is out of the team. But if a player is not the best player in the team, do they play any better for having the crowd on their backs?

 

It's not Wotton, it's Anthony Poolis. But he at least has the decency not to get anywhere near the team.

 

As for "why Saints fans must have a whipping boy", I suspect there are deep sociological reasons rooted somewhere in the tribalism of football and the release of aggression and energy which isn't accepted in other spheres of society which football helps provide.

 

God knows why anyone would bother slagging him off from the comfort of their own home though. Fwiw I think he's a reasonably good play-breaker who should stop trying to hit 40 yard passes, though Gillett would be better if he was 5 years more experienced and a foot taller.

[saint_stevo]

If your crap, getting paid a lot and i've spent my hard earned to come and support the team, then i will give you some stick. It may not be your fault the manager picks you, but you are still crap

[The9]

If your crap, getting paid a lot and i've spent my hard earned to come and support the team, then i will give you some stick. It may not be your fault the manager picks you, but you are still crap

 

I'm going to have to stop agreeing with you today at some point.

 

So fundamentally it's a jealousy thing then? "I'm 'crap' too but I'm not getting paid that much to prove it". It is with me and Poolis, for definite...

[Fan The Flames]

From my limited knowledge of other clubs I believe we are up there with the worst at turning on/picking out players for this sort of treatment. Its an element of the Southampton make up I don't like, every club has its negative brigade but with us the negativity becomes the vocal mainstream view and its quite distasteful.

[Chez]

I was happy with Telfer and Jemaine Wright. They were both slow and far from gifted. However they both had a decent first touch and could make a short pass. Wotton can't even do that.

[saint_stevo]

I'm going to have to stop agreeing with you today at some point.

 

So fundamentally it's a jealousy thing then? "I'm 'crap' too but I'm not getting paid that much to prove it". It is with me and Poolis, for definite...

 

Exactly. Im guessing our Knee surgeries have fused our Matrix's n stuff

[Gordon Mockles]

For as long as I have supported Saints, which is over 50 years, there has often been one player in the team that the fans pick on more than any other. I don't mean a fringe player struggling for a place, but someone that the manager thinks is worth his place, but who is constantly criticised by the fans.

In recent years it has been Rory Delap, then Paul Telfer, now it is Paul Wotton. Just wondering what people feel about the need for a whipping boy, and seeing that some of them go on to play at the top level for other teams, is the role always given to the right player! Who has been a whipping boy and deserved it, and who was better than the fans thought?

 

As for Wotton, Pardew obviously sees a role for him, although he does tend to be subbed, but maybe he's in the side as a steady influence while Murty is out of the team. But if a player is not the best player in the team, do they play any better for having the crowd on their backs?

 

Of course they don't play better but it frustrates fans to see a player who hinders the team. Whilst I don't condone booing (unless they display a poor attitude or arrogant disdain) an individual, it can be frustrating to watch a player of Wotton's clear poor quality being carried by a team progressing. The progression is hampered by certain players, Wotton falls into the category.

 

Whilst I recognise Pardew's insight into utilizing a holding midfielder to sit back and protect the back 4 (like an impoverished man's Makelele), I'd like to think (come January) we have identified and captured (or loaned) a key player in this position to push Wotton out. As previously mentioned, Safri would have been incredible in this role at this level but our misguided predecessors saw it wise to move out our best performing professionals in favour of raw and largely inadequate reserve team players.

 

Saturday, Wotton hoofed balls up in the air (very much hit and hope, inexcusable for a professional footballer imho - forgivable once but not continually as part of your game!) and looked clueless in an attacking sense for quick distribution or just simple passing. Whilst not everything he did was wrong, he stops the forward flow of football imho. One strong example being when he picked up the ball (from a pass) in the centre of the field. Whilst he didn't have lots of options, he had some but didn't seem to have the vision and passing ability (like Morgan or a Safri type player) to quickly see a pass, thread it through quickly and maintain the attacking impetus. Instead, Wotton received the pass, the movement stopped while he held the ball up unnecessarily & he did not look composed (panicked more accurate) and looked from left to right, then back again, before rushing a pass through because he'd held the ball too long and the pass didn't amount to much. This happens too often. Also, he gave away an own goal. This was unfortunate and maybe could have happened to anyone and maybe it was unlucky but it did happen and it was Paul Wotton responsible. He was subbed and the team improved. Make of that what you will. Some say it directly correlates to Wotton being exchanged which may be unfair but I do feel he is poor and desperately need someone (a midfield ball winner) to replace him. To be fair, I thought our passing (certainly our finishing) at Orient was very sloppy at times and Morgan had some good but many bad moments.

 

I don't dislike the guy. He has a good attitude and I support him as a Southampton player when he is on the pitch but I think it says something when a life-long club player like Wotton is released by his former club (Plymouth). If Pardew favours this 4-1-3-1 system so much, we really, REALLY would benefit from having the right personnel and a ball winning, play making midfielder should be top of the agenda.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Hugh Fisher - in the post relegation era (1974 - 77 whilst he was with us) Hugh was the one routinely critiscised and villified,although he divided opinions of fans.Some (my father was one)regarded him a good ballwinning midfielder,others (including me) saw him as a potential liability who offered little.In truth during his time with Saints he probably satisfied both cases,the pivotal point being the Bob Wilson incident and his broken leg, understandably he was never the same player again.

Despite the critiscism at the time,even I acknowledge that Hugh Fisher played himself into Saints folklore with that equaliser v Villa,something my father never let me forget.I also remember how Fisher played vFulham in 1976 when the Best &Marsh circus came to The Dell.The announcement of HF in the line up was met with usual groans of disapproval and questions as to what the hell is Lawrie thinking of.However HF gave a great performance,putting Best in his pocket that afternoon.

 

Hughie is the classic example of a player doing a job for the team which, because it isn't flashy, was derided by the ignorant. Never once could you say he hid, he ALWAYS made himself available to the player in trouble with the ball, the classic "be available, receive, pass, move, and be available again". He wasn't especially a ball-winner in the Brian O'Neil mould, as Hughie always wanted to stay on his feet. But when you play like that you are inevitably in possession an awful lot - and as a result you risk the crowd's ire for any misplaced pass, even if your % completion is good. In that respect he was very much like Alan Ball.

 

Good managers really don't need the advice of those fans who are incapable of watching anything other than the man with the ball, while players (like Fisher and Ball) don't play any better with morons getting on their backs at the drop of a hat.

[Lets B Avenue]

Before my time I understand Jimmy Melia was the main focus for being "too gentlemanly" and shirking tackles.Even recently older relatives have described some of our more tackle shy players as "a bit like Jimmy Melia..".

 

Round my way in the late sixties, to be called a "Melia" was the biggest insult going. Kids would run off home in tears to the taunts of "Mee-le-yah!!".

[Window Cleaner]

Round my way in the late sixties, to be called a "Melia" was the biggest insult going. Kids would run off home in tears to the taunts of "Mee-le-yah!!".

 

Jimmy Melia, the first of the midfield schemers.Underated by yer average bloke on the terraces.

[Saint_clark]

Agree about Gillet, but doesn't the argument about 'weak points' suggest that fans know better than the manager? He sees the players home and away, in games and at training, and has the advice of the coaching staff, while fans watch a game for 90 minutes once a fortnight. And if fans are actually trying to eliminate the weak point, is that best done by undermining a player's confidence so that he plays even worse? It might result in a change or it might just entrench the manager - eg Jermaine Wright - and in the meantime the team might not be at 100%. I know its wishful thinking, but I'd rather see the fans get behind the whole team and encourage even the less popular players.

 

To be honest I haven't seen a single person booing etc Wotton this season. However, I would still much rather see a new DM brought in - or even James given a go there and Thomas stuck at RB.

[Saint_clark]

The problem is that in every team somebody will be the weakest player should he suffer because of that?

 

If by "suffering" you mean replaced then yes.

[John B]

If by "suffering" you mean replaced then yes.

 

I am sorry but I dont think you understood my post

[Saint_clark]

I am sorry but I dont think you understood my post

 

I understood it completely; Wotton is not suffering. He is not getting abuse from the stands, or booed, of being told he isn't fit to wear the shirt.

He is (arguably) the best option we have there right now, so he will have to do until he can be replaced.

[St Will]

Why a whipping boy?

 

Because people have to have someone to blame. Which is very sad.

[John B]

I understood it completely; Wotton is not suffering. He is not getting abuse from the stands, or booed, of being told he isn't fit to wear the shirt.

He is (arguably) the best option we have there right now, so he will have to do until he can be replaced.

 

Yes and then who will be the weakest link?

 

That is my point

 

Although what you are saying about Wotton is probably correct

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I agree that no manager should act on the opinion of fans. We are, literally, ignorant of all the facts taken into account by the manager when he makes his team selections. But views expressed by fans outside of the ground are reflected in crowd noise during the game, booing etc. Dressing room chat also probably means that an unpopular player is aware of what some fans seem to think of him. Is there anything a manager can do, or should do, other than encourage his player to ignore it?

 

If I was Paul Wotton and I heard many SFC fans on the internet didn't rate me very much then I'd make pretty damn sure I did my very best to prove them wrong in the next game - making people eat their words being one of life's great underrated pleasures .

 

Personally I don't think Wotton has that in him anymore , not because of some flaw in his character but rather a fundamental lack of ability at this (late) stage of his career .

 

If I remember correctly PW was Plymouth FC captain and a first choice player for many years , it would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who regularly saw him in his prime - any tame Jenner's on here ?

[Clifford Nelson]

KR I would say he does. Wotton is obviously not in Deschamps class who in all honesty is one of the best, If not the best 'water carrier' there has ever been. Wotton is not fit enough to lace his boots just like he is not fit enough to lace the boots of any of the class acts listed below. We are in league 1 so his skills I believe are relative. All I am pointing out is that is the role he has in our team and that is a role that does need to be filled. There are not many candidates and if anyone’s says 'Schneiderlin' I will shoot them! I am not Wotton's biggest fan, in fact far from it but let’s give Pardew the benefit of the doubt as he obviously knows what he is doing!

 

Defensive midfielder

A defensive midfielder or a holding midfielder is a central midfielder who is stationed in front of the back defenders for defensive reasons, thus "holding back" the freedom of the opponents to attack. This specialist midfielder's responsibilities are to defend against or tackle the opposing team, to recover the ball for their own team, and to safely distribute it to more attacking-minded players.

 

Not only does the player protect his team's defence, he also gives his fellow midfielders the freedom to parade their more attacking flair without the worry of defensive work. For this reason, the holding midfielder may be one of the most important positions in football, as it allows the rest of the team to play a more aggressive game.

 

The defensive midfielder position is also referred to in Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese as "volante" (Spanish & Portuguese for "Rudder" or someone who gives direction), and in Portugal as a "trinco" (meaning "lock"). Eric Cantona once referred to Didier Deschamps as "the water carrier". This was originally intended as a derogatory term but is now an accepted alternative to "holding midfielder" in the UK. Most Brazilian teams deploy at least one "volante" in their team. This includes the Brazilian national team who have fielded some of the most famous defensive midfielders, such as 1994 World Cup winning team captain Dunga. The position is sometimes overlooked but it is a very important position in the modern game. It is a highly specialized position only executed successfully by very few talented players.

 

Perhaps the most typical case of a defensive midfielder is Claude Makelele. For both club (Chelsea, Real Madrid) and country (France), he plays right in front of the back four breaking up attacking movements. His tough yet accurate tackling skills and his decisive passing decisions have more than made up his weaker attacking abilities. When he played for Real Madrid, the modus operandi had been "Makelele wins the ball and passes it to Zidane." A similar partnership is established in Chelsea when he plays with Frank Lampard. Other well-known defensive midfielders include Dietmar Hamann, Gennaro Gattuso, Emerson, and Baraja.

 

http://en.allexperts.com/e/m/mi/midfielder.htm

 

And in our specific situation it allows us to attack with five players, which has allowed Lallana, Lambert, Hammond and Schneiderlin to play their best football ever for us.

 

Just as there has to be supporters who has to have a whipping boy, they are also similar (or maybe the same) as the supporters who in spite of our recent success are desperate to get us playing 4-4-2 again. I cannot for the life of me understand why any other system is viewed with such contempt. Is it something un-British about it? Dave Merrington is religiously wed to it, and now Adam Leitch is on the band wagon as well. Why are we so damned narrow minded?

[Saint_clark]

Yes and then who will be the weakest link?

 

That is my point

 

Although what you are saying about Wotton is probably correct

 

Whoever the weakest link is. It may be the case that we don't have a weak link, in which case we will EXPECT to be promoted - but then the season after, we would probably have 2 or 3 weak links.

[CB Saint]

it's pack mentality. The pack will always turn on the weakness, be it in the playground or on the pitch. Survival of the fittest and all that...