Director of Football role

[Thedelldays]

I wonder if this will happen..no doubt Pards will be consulted etc so i could not imagine it would be anyone who would fit/be manager material anymore..

 

no doubt people will say "dont want to rock the boat" etc...but if all are happy then there is no boat to rock is there

[CWD]

I agree with you TDD, people have a bad feeling toward the DOF role because the only times you hear about it is when it fails. Lots of clubs have a very successful set up like this - Bristol Rovers for one.

 

There was talk of Steve Coppell being linked, but I reckon it will be someone more business minded than football, after all NC called it a sporting director if memory serves.

[saint_boysie]

Coppell gets my vote..

[Andy_Porter]

I would much prefer a foreign DOF who understands the role, not many English clubs use it to good effect so it stands to reason that an Englishman wouldn't make a good DOF.

 

Would obviously have to be someone that Pardew and Cortese get on with and who's respected in the football world.

 

Whoever is the DOF I think we should try and get them in place asap, at first they should just be there watch what Pardew is doing and see how the club works and not actually start working in the role untill the end of the season. Then the three of them should sit down together and start talking about signings, strategies, players, staff etc.

Edited 10 January, 2010 by Andy_Porter

[supergoose]

SCW?

[Huffton]

Guess it depends on the manager. AP comes across to me as a very 'hands on' manager, he likes to be there at training and really coaching the squad himself, so perhaps a DoF would be a good addition for him to free up more 'football time' and less time spent worrying about contracts, signings, interviews etc. Other managers tend to take a more back role and let the coaches take training while they tend to oversee the whole package, someone like Redcrap or Wenger perhaps.

Not really got an opinion on it myself, if its what AP wants then go for it, if not, then don't. Simples.

[kpturner]

Simples.

I thought references to that f*cking meerkat advert had been banned on here :mad:

[Supersubpuckett]

Ridiculous idea - won't work, not sure it ever does. How many successful managers of good teams have achieved that with a DoF? Ferguson? Wenge? Morinho? O'Neil? No, because it's b0ll0cks. Pardew has far too much credibility and experience to need someone put in above him.

[BadgerBadger]

don't rock the boat

[Thedelldays]

Ridiculous idea - won't work, not sure it ever does. How many successful managers of good teams have achieved that with a DoF? Ferguson? Wenge? Morinho? O'Neil? No, because it's b0ll0cks. Pardew has far too much credibility and experience to need someone put in above him.

but he has said he is happy 100% with it...

[ottery st mary]

Lad called.. Smithy.. has been lined up for Director of Football..

Although acting in Gavin and Stacey show.. he proved his football knowledge in that advert with the England team....Proper job.

[dubai_phil]

I believe it was in his business plan so as he's followed that pretty well so far I'm sure it has remained in his vision.

 

How many directors do we have at the moment? He probably will be happy for the help

[aintforever]

No need, Pardew is doing fine by himself.

[SaintRobbie]

DOF is OK as long as Pardew asks for one. If not, traditional managerial set up wins everytime.

[JustMike]

have thought about this alot, and the question i keep asking myself is, do we really need one? Wouldnt it just be a waste of resources on a job that Pards et al are doing fine at?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

As long as it's not a rugby coach :-(

[dune]

I bet a £1 that when we get a DoF it's an Italian....

[Frank's cousin]

Ridiculous idea - won't work, not sure it ever does. How many successful managers of good teams have achieved that with a DoF? Ferguson? Wenge? Morinho? O'Neil? No, because it's b0ll0cks. Pardew has far too much credibility and experience to need someone put in above him.

 

 

Uhm... all depends on job descriptions really and all parties understanding their roles and responsibilties. The reason why it tends not to work so much in the UK is that most managers are still old school in terms of management - OK they no longer book the coaches and travel, but that seems to have been replaced by insisting on being involved in contract negotiations and all that stuff...

 

On the continent the 'manager' as we call it is the head coach who coaches and selects the team - the 'manager' looks after the contracts and commercial side of football.

 

It works well where the head coach/UK manager type, is the one who after consultation with scouts and others select potential transfer targets and then leave the Dof/commercial managers to do the deal. The reason why this seems to cause so much pain in the UK is that managers just assume that once they select a player its a done deal, and the 'board' must not be 'backing' them if it does not happen especially if the club dont meet the asking price or wage demands of the player - we then get all that interference crap. Yet the same managers who are so opposed to Dofs seem to be the ones who appear to have no commercial understanding whatsoever - it should have been obvious to a certain manager at a certain club down the road that the huge number of deals entered into was not sustainable - yet he happily went about it getting the club into the mire and then never acknowledging his role in the mess he created because of a weak board unable to say no.

 

Fans also seem to side with managers (as do the press and media 'pundits' - who themselves tend to be all old school in their thinking) so the boards who have acted responsibly, tried to keep the clubs finances under control are often turned upon when managers and ex-managers start spouting the 'I was not backed' hyperbole.

 

As long as a manager understands the financial situation, and respects the fact that if he identifies a player, the DoF goes after him, but then come back and say it was not possible to reach a deal because of the budget and the players demands, then there is no problem, but it creates the ideal 'excuse' for managers if the performances are poor. The flip side is, that both the board and fans needs to appreciate the limitations to success given the budget, and therefore expectations of the manager should be appropraite to the clubs finance...

 

DoFs work well where this is all understood by all parties, and fall on their arse where it isn't - simple really.

Edited 11 January, 2010 by Frank's cousin

[Professor]

If a board level appointment would be to take on the football role currently performed by Cortese, it would make sense. That would not encroach on Pardew's job and should make his role easier. The Director should manage the manager but not try to do his job for him, so it depends on (a) the Job Description (b) who is appointed and © the Chairman making sure the roles remain clearly defined.

[krissyboy31]

I bet a £1 that when we get a DoF it's an Italian....

 

Maybe he's waiting until after the World Cup for Capello?

[corsacar saint]

Steve Wigley according to rumours on a football transfer site.

[Rebel]

I hope its not Steve Wigley - I'd welcome him back in the youth set up though - maybe as U16s or U18s coach - but I don't think he'd make a good DoF role

 

Huw Jennings would be on my short list for the role of DoF - I see the role as more of a strategic and administrator role rather than a coaching or hands on football role

 

if the role if defined properly and you get the right person in for it I think it would improve the long term management of SFC

 

as I see it the DoF should be responsible for the all things on the football side of the club - the scouting, the academy, the first team, the sports science etc.

 

However the Football Manager should have ultimate responsibility for the first team

 

the Technical Director as I would prefer to call the role would be responsible for the football budget, the players wage bill, the transfer budget, negotiating players conftracts, etc

 

the Head of the Academy, the Head of Sports Science, Chief Scout, Head of youth recruitment, Football Manager would all report to him

 

his primary objective being to manage the football resources of the club with a long term goal and vision - to balance the football managers short term vision in staying up or getting promoted

 

the DoF should be responsible for signing the players the FM needs for the first team, making sure we stay in budget, as well as making sure we have a succession plan and continuity when it comes to managers, coaches and players

 

he should be tasked with making sure there are always players coming through from the academy and reserves in every position capable of pushing for a first team place.

 

he needs to understand football - particularly the business and contract side - and be a good judge of players - but not be a football manager or coach

[Frank's cousin]

Maybe part of teh problem is that too often DoFs are former managers and still very 'close' to the hands on approach so the boundaries are often smudged by the temptations to 'have a say' on selection policy and the tactical side of things. Its not the role that is a problem, but too often the combination of 'strong personalties and egos' multipled by obscured roles and responsibilities.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Wigley?

 

Nice bloke and good coach, but DoF?!

 

Nope - at very least it needs to be either an experienced football boss or business person.

[Clifford Nelson]

Uhm... all depends on job descriptions really and all parties understanding their roles and responsibilties. The reason why it tends not to work so much in the UK is that most managers are still old school in terms of management - OK they no longer book the coaches and travel, but that seems to have been replaced by insisting on being involved in contract negotiations and all that stuff...

 

On the continent the 'manager' as we call it is the head coach who coaches and selects the team - the 'manager' looks after the contracts and commercial side of football.

 

It works well where the head coach/UK manager type, is the one who after consultation with scouts and others select potential transfer targets and then leave the Dof/commercial managers to do the deal. The reason why this seems to cause so much pain in the UK is that managers just assume that once they select a player its a done deal, and the 'board' must not be 'backing' them if it does not happen especially if the club dont meet the asking price or wage demands of the player - we then get all that interference crap. Yet the same managers who are so opposed to Dofs seem to be the ones who appear to have no commercial understanding whatsoever - it should have been obvious to a certain manager at a certain club down the road that the huge number of deals entered into was not sustainable - yet he happily went about it getting the club into the mire and then never acknowledging his role in the mess he created because of a weak board unable to say no.

 

Fans also seem to side with managers (as do the press and media 'pundits' - who themselves tend to be all old school in their thinking) so the boards who have acted responsibly, tried to keep the clubs finances under control are often turned upon when managers and ex-managers start spouting the 'I was not backed' hyperbole.

 

As long as a manager understands the financial situation, and respects the fact that if he identifies a player, the DoF goes after him, but then come back and say it was not possible to reach a deal because of the budget and the players demands, then there is no problem, but it creates the ideal 'excuse' for managers if the performances are poor. The flip side is, that both the board and fans needs to appreciate the limitations to success given the budget, and therefore expectations of the manager should be appropraite to the clubs finance...

 

DoFs work well where this is all understood by all parties, and fall on their arse where it isn't - simple really.

 

I seem to think that we thought the same about this the last time it was discussed. I only think it's worth mentioning what AP said himself, i.e. something like: Managers come and go but the club remains. - The DoF or Sporting Director should be their to make sure that the club's sporting plan is followed. To allow every new manager to come in with his own ideas about how to play football every time is a very strange way of conducting business. Remember the old edict in business: Directors direct, managers manage! Those who don't understand the difference ought not get involved in it.

[offix]

The team is performing just fine, the transfer activity is awesome and seems to have approval from a majority on here, so why change anything?

[Chez]

so long as its not David curb crawling Pleat and his David McGoldrick recommendations. He couldn't spot Messi in a Sunday League game.

[Thedelldays]

any further news on this role..?

[shurlock]

Before a DoF, I would break the bank for another Georges Prost figure to run the youth team - bring that part of our infrastructure back up to the historical levels we've enjoyed. Perhaps get another frenchman in - they arguably run the best youth systems on the continent.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

any further news on this role..?

 

Hope not..

 

Can anyone come up with an example of where is actually works or

has worked long term in england

[Thedelldays]

Hope not..

 

Can anyone come up with an example of where is actually works or

has worked long term in england

man u

chelsea

spurs

 

all have a DoF or something very similar

[ALWAYS_SFC]

man u

chelsea

spurs

 

all have a DoF or something very similar

 

Who are they?

[Legod Third Coming]

Who are they?

 

Frank Arnesson at Chelsea... now since he's come in and they fired Mourinho what have they won exactly??

 

Oh yeah the exact square root of feck all...

 

And watch Jose dump them out of the cup with any fecking luck as well!

[Block 5]

I bet a £1 that when we get a DoF it's an Italian....

 

I think you may well be right.

 

You could increase that £1 bet IMO.

[alpine_saint]

I reckon the DoF role is a load of b*ll*cks that shows inherent distrust of or lack of faith in the capabilities of the manager by the Chairman.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I reckon the DoF role is a load of b*ll*cks that shows inherent distrust of or lack of faith in the capabilities of the manager by the Chairman.

 

Completely agree.

[shurlock]

Frank Arnesson at Chelsea... now since he's come in and they fired Mourinho what have they won exactly??

 

Oh yeah the exact square root of feck all...

 

And watch Jose dump them out of the cup with any fecking luck as well!

 

Not like any of Mourinho's successors have had the same kind of money to spend...

 

On the other hand, do think DoFs embolden chairmen to get rid of managers as they assume that the chaos of frequent managerial changes is minimised by the continuity of having an ever-present DoF at the helm. Whether it works out that way is another matter.

[CanadaSaint]

DoFs work well where this is all understood by all parties' date=' and fall on their arse where it isn't - simple really.[/quote']

 

I think AP is a reasonably sophisticated man and would understand the dynamic and work within it, whereas Harry is about as sophisticated as my arse and would never make the effort; based on our experience, he might even go the sabotage route.

 

Remember the old edict in business: Directors direct, managers manage! Those who don't understand the difference ought not get involved in it.

 

Good point, but sometimes people who don't fully understand the difference DO get involved in it - because they have the money or because they are the link to those who have the money.

 

NC is, I suspect, an impatient and rather impulsive man, and a DoF might be the ideal way of keeping his strengths without having to live with his weaknesses - in Weston's words "a buffer".

[dubai_phil]

I have it on good authority that NC will be attending The Forum Match to check out nickh for the role.

 

 

No pressue Nick

[Legod Third Coming]

Not like any of Mourinho's successors have had the same kind of money to spend...

 

On the other hand, do think DoFs embolden chairmen to get rid of managers as they assume that the chaos of frequent managerial changes is minimised by the continuity of having an ever-present DoF at the helm. Whether it works out that way is another matter.

 

Jose's successors have had the following players to call on:

 

Drogba

Ballack

Cole

Cole

Terry

Cech

Cavalho

Deco... the list of international superstars goes on!

 

Not exactly been short of talent...

 

But no, a Chairman and DoF thought that winning wasn't good enough, they had to 'win with style'....

 

Yep very stylish air-conditioned trophy room they have down there in Cobham! Shame the only thing that's glistening in it is the mirrored shelves.

[derry]

I seem to think that we thought the same about this the last time it was discussed. I only think it's worth mentioning what AP said himself, i.e. something like: Managers come and go but the club remains. - The DoF or Sporting Director should be their to make sure that the club's sporting plan is followed. To allow every new manager to come in with his own ideas about how to play football every time is a very strange way of conducting business. Remember the old edict in business: Directors direct, managers manage! Those who don't understand the difference ought not get involved in it.

 

Ajax have a concept from bottom to top and if we had a D of F who enshrined a similar concept, ie passing football, all the teams playing a club style, only players/managers that fit the concept brought in, it could only be beneficial in the long term and would as Clifford says save a lot of chopping and changing.

[CanadaSaint]

I have it on good authority that NC will be attending The Forum Match to check out nickh for the role.

 

We are now completely, utterly and totally screwed, then.

 

I'm switching my support to Hythe & Dibden if that happens.

[Badger]

Ajax have a concept from bottom to top and if we had a D of F who enshrined a similar concept, ie passing football, all the teams playing a club style, only players/managers that fit the concept brought in, it could only be beneficial in the long term and would as Clifford says save a lot of chopping and changing.

 

Simon Clifford? Now theres an interesting shout !

[doughnutman]

Works pretty well at Stoke

[Legod Third Coming]

Ajax have a concept from bottom to top and if we had a D of F who enshrined a similar concept, ie passing football, all the teams playing a club style, only players/managers that fit the concept brought in, it could only be beneficial in the long term and would as Clifford says save a lot of chopping and changing.

 

Wow, wasn't that the brave new world that dumped us into this god-foresaken league...

 

And where are Ajax on the European stage... scouring the bottom of the barrell...

[Saint_clark]

Jose's successors have had the following players to call on:

 

Drogba

Ballack

Cole

Cole

Terry

Cech

Cavalho

Deco... the list of international superstars goes on!

 

Not exactly been short of talent...

 

 

I think A. Cole and Ballack came in after Jose left, and I know for a fact Deco was bought by Scolari.

[Legod Third Coming]

I think A. Cole and Ballack came in after Jose left, and I know for a fact Deco was bought by Scolari.

 

That was kinda my point... The trouble with Chelsea was that they had the second best manager in the world but thought they knew better...

 

I'd love Liverpool to employ Jose when Raffa goes to really mix it up at the top of the Premiership.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I'd love us to employ Jose when AP goes to really mix it up at the top of the Premiership.

 

Better ?

[Legod Third Coming]

Better ?

 

LOL.... I wish!!!

I like AP, I like the cut of his jib and I like what I see in terms of growth, development, progress, etc...

 

BUT, Jose is enough to turn a straight football fan!

[Badger]

Works pretty well at Stoke

 

Who is their DoF?