Criticising the manager....

[david in sweden]

is a favourite pastime of frustrated fans ..and chairmen.

Fans who faithfully attend every match they possible can, and then see a poor performance are often quick to criticise; manager, players or even referees - when their team doesn't pick up 3 points every game.

Lawrie McMenemy (argueably the most successful Saints manager ever) was once quoted as saying..."as manager, you can never never win. If the team gets the points, fans say - the team played well, if they lose - it's my fault 'cos I picked them ", and McMenemy was no stranger to criticism both during and after his 13 years at the club - which started with a relegation!

 

Success has been a rare visitor to SFC in recent decades. Seasons 1976, and 1983/4 were highpoints of the past that were rarely repeated. Enormous support in the 99 "Great Escape" season - when we JUST avoided Prem relegation, and extra boost with ONE good year with Gordon Strachan. Much sadness since, but now we seem to be on the up again.

This current team has won more games than any other team in the last 26 years...and it's only March - poor performance?

 

Building a team, like building a house isn't easier because you employ more bricklayers / or spend money on new players. It takes time to do a good job. Neither Cortese or, Pardew had any idea what they were getting into when they tried to re-float a club last August that started with -10 points. IMHO they have both done excellent jobs in their own way.

 

Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it either- as Roman A. has found at Chelsea, and losing patience and sacking a manager in anger was a bad decision that came home to roost for him on Wednesday night.

 

After 50 years as a fan...I am perhaps more philosophical than some, and many olders fans have seen more change, euphoria and turmoil than many of our younger supporters can ever imagine. If patience is a virtue then it better be a quality that we need to acquire because I'm sure that even if by some miracle, we get promoted this season,some people would be criticising the manager whose team was ONLY 10th in the CCC - next season !

Edited 21 March, 2010 by david in sweden

[paris]

Thanks well put..

I'm convinced from reading some post's on here that even if we where to have the best manager in the world at the moment Capello/Mourinio imho par example at SMS he would still be critised by some ....

I personally believe AP is doing a good job after coming into an extremely damaged set up of a club ....

[Glasgow_Saint]

AP is doing an OK(ish) job, nothing more nowt less.

 

Dependent on your expectations, ambition ect will determine your summary of AP so far. Some are obsessed with the past and really believe that AP had the world’s toughest job while others (me included) feel that he has one of the easier jobs and has been backed both by fans and owners.

 

I expected more this season (particularly with all the £’s spent) so in my opinion he has so far failed – my expectations (as proven) are a lot higher than others on here, but that’s how I live my life and how I have become so successful.

 

Never settle for second best and right now AP’s ‘OK’ job would give him till Xmas, without significant improvements he should go……

[trousers]

Under the surface, I don't believe most people who have raised doubts about Pardew are criticising his ability as a manager per se, rather they are highlighting that Pardew is a naturally cautious type of manager and perhaps what the club needs over the next 18 months+ is a more adventurous manager.

 

As I say, it's more an observations of styles of management rather than ability.

 

It may just be that Corteses has come to the conclusion that Pardew's 'style' doesn't quite fit the agressive success timescales being set. (even a 5 year 'bounce back' timeframe is ambitious)

 

IMHO, Pardew is a very good manager for consolidating a team's current position but not necessarily the best manager to get us up the ladder quickly.

[doggface]

It's all a matter of opinion, as football is performance related it is not realistic for fans not to criticise the manager.

Nobody is perfect and despite some absolutly cracking performances this season, there has also been very mediocre and very poor performances.

The team and the manager deserve the praise for Leeds Huddersfield & Norwich for example but they did not get it right against Tranmere, Exeter, Swindon home & away brighton for example.

This team has bags of ability but I would question there mental attitude and winning mentality.

This is what needs to be addressed if we are going to get automatic promotion next season which imo is a must.

Some fans have seen so many defeats and poor performances over the years that some will accept regular mediocrity imo.

[doddisalegend]

AP is doing an OK(ish) job, nothing more nowt less.

 

Dependent on your expectations, ambition ect will determine your summary of AP so far. Some are obsessed with the past and really believe that AP had the world’s toughest job while others (me included) feel that he has one of the easier jobs and has been backed both by fans and owners.

 

I expected more this season (particularly with all the £’s spent) so in my opinion he has so far failed – my expectations (as proven) are a lot higher than others on here, but that’s how I live my life and how I have become so successful.

 

Never settle for second best and right now AP’s ‘OK’ job would give him till Xmas, without significant improvements he should go……

 

Glasgow I laugh every time you say that by being a saints fan you've accepted second best for years. You have to go back a long way to find a time when when we where top of the tree, even under WGS in arguably our best season for years I think we made it as high as fourth best in the country for about a week. So in effect you have settled for second best by becoming a saints fan.

[John B]

Under the surface, I don't believe most people who have raised doubts about Pardew are criticising his ability as a manager per se, rather they are highlighting that Pardew is a naturally cautious type of manager and perhaps what the club needs over the next 18 months+ is a more adventurous manager.

 

As I say, it's more an observations of styles of management rather than ability.

 

It may just be that Corteses has come to the conclusion that Pardew's 'style' doesn't quite fit the agressive success timescales being set. (even a 5 year 'bounce back' timeframe is ambitious)

 

IMHO, Pardew is a very good manager for consolidating a team's current position but not necessarily the best manager to get us up the ladder quickly.

 

Just interested to know how much is a manager responsible for results compared with the players.

 

 

They always seem to get stick when if a player or players had played to his usual standard the team may have won.

[Doctoroncall]

For me, sometimes I have check my euphoria of how the team have played on the pitch considering what has happen this season at the club, especially when you see such fantastic performances (Huddersfield, Leeds, Walsall etc) that they will not be the norm. However, expectations are there due to the expensive squad building process. It may take a bit longer than first thought but there are examples that success can be made from adversity given the right choice a club makes:

 

If you think about what has happen to Swindon, where they lost their top striker in the summer and they only brought in a few defensive replacements. The squad as a whole was stable and has got them in the play-offs with an astute manager.

 

On the other hand, Norwich made wholesale changes in the summer to their playing squad and sacked their manager early on, not the best for stability but they are now leading the division.

 

 

There's no point dwelling on the failures if it only provides frustration and additional pressure. As long as some benefit can be made from what went wrong, the club, team and fans need to move on.

[doddisalegend]

is a favourite pastime of frustrated fans ..and chairmen.

Fans who faithfully attend every match they possible can, and then see a poor performance are often quick to criticise; manager, players or even referees - when their team doesn't pick up 3 points every game.

Lawrie McMenemy (argueably the most successful Saints manager ever) was once quoted as saying..."as manager, you can never never win. If the team gets the points, fans say - the team played well, if they lose - it's my fault 'cos I picked them ", and McMenemy was no stranger to criticism both during and after his 13 years at the club - which started with a relegation!

 

Success has been a rare visitor to SFC in recent decades. Seasons 1976, and 1983/4 were highpoints of the past that were rarely repeated. Enormous support in the 99 "Great Escape" season - when we JUST avoided Prem relegation, and extra boost with ONE good year with Gordon Strachan. Much sadness since, but now we seem to be on the up again.

This current team has won more games than any other team in the last 26 years...and it's only March - poor performance?

Building a team, like building a house isn't easier because you employ more bricklayers / or spend money on new players. It takes time to do a good job. Neither Cortese or, Pardew had any idea what they were getting into when they tried to re-float a club last August that started with -10 points. IMHO they have both done excellent jobs in their own way.

 

Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it either- as Roman A. has found at Chelsea, and losing patience and sacking a manager in anger was a bad decision that came home to roost for him on Wednesday night.

 

After 50 years as a fan...I am perhaps more philosophical than some, and many olders fans have seen more change, euphoria and turmoil than many of our younger supporters can ever imagine. If patience is a virtue then it better be a quality that we need to acquire because I'm sure that even if by some miracle, we got promoted this season,some people would be criticising the manager whose team was ONLY 10th in the CCC - next season !

 

And that is why I have enjoyed this season. We have a cup final to and yet its a bad season becuase people just assumed (just like Leeds did) that being a big club meant we would walk this league. They said the same thing in the coke-a-cola and look how that turned out.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Glasgow I laugh every time you say that by being a saints fan you've accepted second best for years. You have to go back a long way to find a time when when we where top of the tree, even under WGS in arguably our best season for years I think we made it as high as fourth best in the country for about a week. So in effect you have settled for second best by becoming a saints fan.

 

I didnt choose Saints - as with all of us, the club picks us in a way.

 

The season under WGS that you refer was great and viewed by me as success when all things considered, likewise my ambitions for Saints are considerable of all factors - I dont expect us to with the Champions league in the next few years, but with the money spent I dont also expect us to be so far behind Norwich, Leeds, Colchester, Charlton, Swindon, Millwall ect

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The standpoint of being 'unsatisfied' with your lot in life is one of (if not the) main drivers of human progress throughout our long journey from the dawn of prehistory until today , indeed this innate faculty of mankind is what truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom in my very non scientific opinion . Never settle for (or accept) the second best in life or football , rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more , because all experience shows us that if you don't ask for something better then you will surely never receive it .

 

On reflection it seems to me that (if you'll forgive the contradiction) life's critics should be praised and encouraged rather than criticised and abused - just think where would humanity be without them ?

 

There is no progress without protest .

[John B]

And that is why I have enjoyed this season. We have a cup final to and yet its a bad season becuase people just assumed (just like Leeds did) that being a big club meant we would walk this league. They said the same thing in the coke-a-cola and look how that turned out.

 

I agree with you but after spending loads on players the results after the JPT game at St Mary's have been a little disappointing in general

[Glasgow_Saint]

The standpoint of being 'unsatisfied' with your lot in life is one of (if not the) main drivers of human progress throughout our long journey from the dawn of prehistory until today , indeed this innate faculty of mankind is what truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom in my very non scientific opinion . Never settle for (or accept) the second best in life or football , rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more , because all experience shows us that if you don't ask for something better then you will surely never receive it .

 

On reflection it seems to me that (if you'll forgive the contradiction) life's critics should be praised and encouraged rather than criticised and abused - just think where would humanity be without them ?

 

There is no progress without protest .

 

Glasgow_Saint likes this post

[doddisalegend]

I didnt choose Saints - as with all of us, the club picks us in a way.

 

The season under WGS that you refer was great and viewed by me as success when all things considered, likewise my ambitions for Saints are considerable of all factors - I dont expect us to with the Champions league in the next few years, but with the money spent I dont also expect us to be so far behind Norwich, Leeds, Colchester, Charlton, Swindon, Millwall ect

 

But thats not what you said you said that you won't settle for second best, that year we finished eigth not even close to second best. However there where factors that you think made it acceptable to finish that low down the league that year.

 

This year however you can not see any factors that suggest anything other than a top two(?) finish? I suggest the difference is like a lot of fans you where happy to live with years of scrapping by and avoiding relegation by the skin of our teeth becuase we where in the EPL. Now we're in league one we still can't get our heads around it, we're embarrassed to lose to teams that 10 years ago we didn't even know (or cared) exsisted.

 

The simple fact is this team has won more games this season than any saints team in the last 26 years. You should be happy becuase this team is not the second best (or third best) but yes the best team you've supported in 26 years.

[CB Fry]

 

Building a team, like building a house isn't easier because you employ more bricklayers / or spend money on new players. It takes time to do a good job. Neither Cortese or, Pardew had any idea what they were getting into when they tried to re-float a club last August that started with -10 points. IMHO they have both done excellent jobs in their own way.

 

Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it either- as Roman A. has found at Chelsea, and losing patience and sacking a manager in anger was a bad decision that came home to roost for him on Wednesday night.

 

 

How could Pardew "not have any idea what he was getting into".

 

I thought he was a professional football manager with top flight experience being appointed to take over a club in the third tier of English football, with more money than any club at that level for over a decade.

 

How could he "not have any idea"? Aren't we paying him to have "an idea" or two?

 

 

 

 

I'm getting heartily sick of people making out that Saints are the hardest done by club in British football.

 

Getting a club spending millions with the second biggest fanbase in the division promoted from League One is NOT some unrealistic footballing miracle.

 

 

 

Cortese must wish he'd never spent a penny on players because he has invested millions and millions and millions on playing talent only for ungrateful berks to pontificate about how "money doesn't make any difference".

 

I wish he'd spent zero. Nothing.

 

Just stuck last years kids out. Because buying Lambert and Barnard and Hammond and Harding and Puncheon and Fonte makes no difference apparently.

 

Cortese should have spent nothing. Because money doesn't solve anything, does it?

 

Then you gits would have something to bloody moan about then.

[doddisalegend]

The standpoint of being 'unsatisfied' with your lot in life is one of (if not the) main drivers of human progress throughout our long journey from the dawn of prehistory until today , indeed this innate faculty of mankind is what truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom in my very non scientific opinion . [U]Never[/u] settle for (or accept) the second best in life or football , rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more , because all experience shows us that if you don't ask for something better then you will surely never receive it .

 

On reflection it seems to me that (if you'll forgive the contradiction) life's critics should be praised and encouraged rather than criticised and abused - just think where would humanity be without them ?

 

There is no progress without protest .

 

Ok we should all go and support manure then, As GS pointed you don't pick your club it picks you. It's unfotrunate we've all been picked by one that is never going to be the best, or even the second best. All those fans of clubs outside the top four in the EPL might as well give up. Hoping/wanting your club to do its best is alot different to excpecting it to be the best.

[Fowllyd]

The standpoint of being 'unsatisfied' with your lot in life is one of (if not the) main drivers of human progress throughout our long journey from the dawn of prehistory until today , indeed this innate faculty of mankind is what truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom in my very non scientific opinion . Never settle for (or accept) the second best in life or football , rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more , because all experience shows us that if you don't ask for something better then you will surely never receive it .

 

On reflection it seems to me that (if you'll forgive the contradiction) life's critics should be praised and encouraged rather than criticised and abused - just think where would humanity be without them ?

 

There is no progress without protest .

 

Fair points, but criticism comes in different forms. Negative, destructive criticism does nobody any good; constructive criticism is another matter altogether. On here I'd say the former tends to dominate; there are plenty of posters who like to complain yet never offer any positive suggestions for improvement.

 

And do you really think that Shakespeare wrote Oliver Twist?

[doddisalegend]

Fair points, but criticism comes in different forms. Negative, destructive criticism does nobody any good; constructive criticism is another matter altogether. On here I'd say the former tends to dominate; there are plenty of posters who like to complain yet never offer any positive suggestions for improvement.

 

And do you really think that Shakespeare wrote Oliver Twist?

 

I didn't even see that LOL

[Rem]

The standpoint of being 'unsatisfied' with your lot in life is one of (if not the) main drivers of human progress throughout our long journey from the dawn of prehistory until today , indeed this innate faculty of mankind is what truly separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom in my very non scientific opinion . Never settle for (or accept) the second best in life or football , rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more , because all experience shows us that if you don't ask for something better then you will surely never receive it .

 

On reflection it seems to me that (if you'll forgive the contradiction) life's critics should be praised and encouraged rather than criticised and abused - just think where would humanity be without them ?

 

There is no progress without protest .

 

 

Shakespeare's Oliver Twist? Charles Dickens might have had something to say about that! But then he was probably a Pompey fan.

[doddisalegend]

I agree with you but after spending loads on players the results after the JPT game at St Mary's have been a little disappointing in general

 

I'd agree if we had spent all the money in August and started with the team we have now but we didn't. We blew this season in august and september with such a slow start that we were always going to struggle. We tried to paper over the cracks by throwing money at them in january. If we had had the team we have know in august we would have won more games IMO, but building a team is not an overnight job. Norwich, Leeds, Swindon built theirs in the summer and the difference shows our team has changed a lot since August and it shows.

Edited 19 March, 2010 by doddisalegend

[capitalsaint]

AP is doing an OK(ish) job, nothing more nowt less.

 

Dependent on your expectations, ambition ect will determine your summary of AP so far. Some are obsessed with the past and really believe that AP had the world’s toughest job while others (me included) feel that he has one of the easier jobs and has been backed both by fans and owners.

 

I expected more this season (particularly with all the £’s spent) so in my opinion he has so far failed – my expectations (as proven) are a lot higher than others on here, but that’s how I live my life and how I have become so successful.

 

Never settle for second best and right now AP’s ‘OK’ job would give him till Xmas, without significant improvements he should go……

 

not being personal, but that doesn't really work for a football club.

 

not settling for second best is fine in your own life, it pushes you to improve yourself, but if you can't directly change or affect a situation, not settling for second best with a team you support is pretty futile. you don't speak to the players, so getting angry with a manager's performance will do nothing to improve our standing.

 

surely as a successful person you must see the difference?

 

football is a game, as someone who has enjoyed success in their life it must ultimately fall pretty low on your list of priorities, because it doesn't really make much difference to the world.

[saint_stevo]

Taking away the JPT (which lets face it, as a competition, is a bit meh) Pardew has done Ok, just about average. We are achieving the minimum i expected us too.

[derry]

Under the surface, I don't believe most people who have raised doubts about Pardew are criticising his ability as a manager per se, rather they are highlighting that Pardew is a naturally cautious type of manager and perhaps what the club needs over the next 18 months+ is a more adventurous manager.

 

As I say, it's more an observations of styles of management rather than ability.

 

It may just be that Corteses has come to the conclusion that Pardew's 'style' doesn't quite fit the agressive success timescales being set. (even a 5 year 'bounce back' timeframe is ambitious)

 

IMHO, Pardew is a very good manager for consolidating a team's current position but not necessarily the best manager to get us up the ladder quickly.

 

I think you have pretty much summed up what is wrong with the team. Good players and a negative safety first approach.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Great OP. Surely people's expectations will differ and the definition of success will be different. For some (like Glasgow Saint) it would seem that promotion this season is the yardstick for AP to prove success.

 

For me and others, it's all about the match day experience (the walk-up, the beer, the smell of nasty burgers, the sight and sounds, mates banter etc.)....and watching home football that is attractive so we're winning more games than we lose. NC and AP have delivered that in bucket loads this season and I am really enjoying my football again.

 

Promotion will be good, just like getting to Wembley will be, but it's certainly not the be all and end all of what I love about supporting Saints.

[SaintRichmond]

Under the surface, I don't believe most people who have raised doubts about Pardew are criticising his ability as a manager per se, rather they are highlighting that Pardew is a naturally cautious type of manager and perhaps what the club needs over the next 18 months+ is a more adventurous manager.

 

As I say, it's more an observations of styles of management rather than ability.

 

It may just be that Corteses has come to the conclusion that Pardew's 'style' doesn't quite fit the agressive success timescales being set. (even a 5 year 'bounce back' timeframe is ambitious)

 

IMHO, Pardew is a very good manager for consolidating a team's current position but not necessarily the best manager to get us up the ladder quickly.

 

 

I do not see any wrong in criticism, as lonf as your do not enter the realms of swearing

 

I personally have changed my opinion about Pardew, and that view was cemented after Tuesdays performance v Swindo

 

How can ANY Manager send a team out with the instructions to boot the ball as high as you can, as many times as you can. Absoulutely terrible

 

We have the best pitch in Div 1, and we HAVE in the past played great one touch along the carpet type Football

 

But Tuesdays performance was Abysmal IMHO, and Swindon thoroughly deserved to win

 

I do not think Pardew is the man to lead us UPWARDS, and I also think that he was not really interested in the Play Offs this season (Negative thinking)

 

It really bugs me that he was allowed to assemble a Squad, which on it's day is worthy of the CCC, yet, under HIS guidance has dropped MANY points since that squad took to the pitch

 

Too much emphasis was placed on the JPT, and although the 28th will be good as a Day out, come the cold light of day on the 29th, people will finally begin to realise the wonderful world of DIVISION 1 for 2010/11

 

If I were not a cynic, it would not surprise me at all that Pardew was giving a Two Fingered Salute.

 

No rift, you must be joking, it's bigger than the one if Africa:cool:

[Saint_clark]

I do not see any wrong in criticism, as lonf as your do not enter the realms of swearing

 

I personally have changed my opinion about Pardew, and that view was cemented after Tuesdays performance v Swindo

 

How can ANY Manager send a team out with the instructions to boot the ball as high as you can, as many times as you can. Absoulutely terrible

 

 

 

Please tell me you don't honestly believe that's what he said? Swindon closed us down and worked harder than any other team we've faced this season, therefore we struggled to play our normal game. And instead of playing risky passes and giving the ball away in their own half with Swindon players running straight at them, the players decided to boot it away.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

… rather we should all adopt the attitude of that unfortunate orphan in Shakespeare's Oliver Twist and always ask for more ….

 

… And do you really think that Shakespeare wrote Oliver Twist?

 

Of course he did.

 

But at the first performance the audience was moaning about Fagin’s team “always being in the pocket” of the opposition, so Shakespeare shelved it.

 

Dickens bought the script for a farthing in the Old Curiosity Shoppe and amended it with a light touch to the ecstacy of his supporters. The copyright authorities were just about to penalise him, but he claimed that his “touch” was the “second phase” of the play, and his literary "winner" should stand.

 

Apparently 60 years or so later, a statue of Dickens with his arm held aloft was erected outside the offices of Bentley's Miscellany, sculpted by a little-known charity school craft teacher called Peter Blue from old rags and glue made from the bones of tubercular street urchins, but it was speedily taken down by Dickens fans who thought it looked more like Joseph Merrick.

[stmusicdude]

AP is doing an OK(ish) job, nothing more nowt less.

 

Dependent on your expectations, ambition ect will determine your summary of AP so far. Some are obsessed with the past and really believe that AP had the world’s toughest job while others (me included) feel that he has one of the easier jobs and has been backed both by fans and owners.

 

I expected more this season (particularly with all the £’s spent) so in my opinion he has so far failed – my expectations (as proven) are a lot higher than others on here, but that’s how I live my life and how I have become so successful.

 

Never settle for second best and right now AP’s ‘OK’ job would give him till Xmas, without significant improvements he should go……

 

one of GS best posts

 

I do hear OP voice & opinion tho.

From day 1 next season the pressure will be on in fact it may even start in pre season .. There are things that make you wonder what will improve over the summer months to make us tighter as a team .. we shall see

[St_Tel49]

How could Pardew "not have any idea what he was getting into".

 

I thought he was a professional football manager with top flight experience being appointed to take over a club in the third tier of English football, with more money than any club at that level for over a decade.

 

How could he "not have any idea"? Aren't we paying him to have "an idea" or two?

 

 

 

 

I'm getting heartily sick of people making out that Saints are the hardest done by club in British football.

 

Getting a club spending millions with the second biggest fanbase in the division promoted from League One is NOT some unrealistic footballing miracle.

 

 

 

Cortese must wish he'd never spent a penny on players because he has invested millions and millions and millions on playing talent only for ungrateful berks to pontificate about how "money doesn't make any difference".

 

I wish he'd spent zero. Nothing.

 

Just stuck last years kids out. Because buying Lambert and Barnard and Hammond and Harding and Puncheon and Fonte makes no difference apparently.

 

Cortese should have spent nothing. Because money doesn't solve anything, does it?

 

Then you gits would have something to bloody moan about then.

Money does not AUTOMATICALLY solve anything. It depends on how it is spent. Out of the money that has been spent, who should we not have acquired?

[SaintRichmond]

Please tell me you don't honestly believe that's what he said? Swindon closed us down and worked harder than any other team we've faced this season, therefore we struggled to play our normal game. And instead of playing risky passes and giving the ball away in their own half with Swindon players running straight at them, the players decided to boot it away.

 

Are you serious with that ???

 

"Struggled to play our normal game" I don't recall us TRYING to play Football

 

Of Course Swindon worked hard

 

So, instead of playing "risky passes", all we did was to hoof the ball up into the night sky, for the Swindon Centre Backs to deal with when it came back down

 

"The players decided to boot it away" All by themselves ??? NOT under instruction from the Manager ????

 

In that case, as the Team were doing it all by themselves, no need to have a Manager is there ???

 

If Pardew did not instruct the players to Hoof the ball into the air, then why did he allow it to continue ?, because that course of action was getting us NOWHERE

 

You infer that you do not believe that Pardew instructed the Team to play that way, so, as he obviously has no control on how we play, he might just as well come and join us in the stands

 

The only good thing about Pardew is that you can set your clock as to when Barnard will be subbed

 

Sign of a great Manager that was, Lambert had taken a bad knock, and was struggling. But, don't change anything, stick to the script eh ??

 

Pardew showed how clueless he is, as time went on, when he was at Charlton

 

After Tuesday nights Saints performance, Carlisle must be really looking forward to the 28th:cool:

[up and away]

Pardew has done a lot of good things, but there is an inherent fault in the team that can only be fixed by Pardew or by removing him.

 

This is not luck or other teams raising their game, it's about our performances dropping off to varying extents. Pardew has one system and 11 players, which is great when those players have the energy levels and form. When they don't (which is frequent), there is no plan B and little we can do to influence the result. The problem is very simple and is a function of having control of the midfield. Every Saints fan and his dog knows that when we lose that midfield control, we are no longer masters of our own destiny. Lambert and Barnard are next to useless, if having to create their own chances and any defence will eventually succumb when having a massive hole in front of it.

 

The system or the players must be changed to ensure that midfield control and that is singularly where Pardew fails. Whether it's 442 or 451, you must start off with either the system or the players to give you that control. So maybe we would not have beaten Huddersfield 5-0, only 3-0, but we would not have dropped all those other points, with the play offs within easy reach. 451 was very successful for the team, even when returning for the 2nd half against Ipswich and MK Dons. It was a very easy way of getting midfield control which had the flexibility of a plan B.

 

What does this mean in reality, just sacrificing 1 player from Lallana, Schniederlin, Barnard for example, to either bring in the right type of player or to change the system. We have more than enough of an attacking force to cope without one of these players, we can have next to no attacking force when we do not have control of the midfield. And if things are not working out, we now have a plan B that the opposition will then struggle to contend with. It's one thing starting against a very attacking 442 to suddenly be confronted with it in the second half of a match, when it's far more difficult to get into the mind set or the legs to co-operate.

 

I don't want Pardew to go as he has done so many good things, but the problem has to be solved. The answer lies with him in what ever form. This is not a knee jerk in reaction to the Swindon game, as that could have been either way. But when you consider that game and all the other failures, there is an extremely worrying trend.

[doddisalegend]

Are you serious with that ???

 

"Struggled to play our normal game" I don't recall us TRYING to play Football

 

Of Course Swindon worked hard

 

So, instead of playing "risky passes", all we did was to hoof the ball up into the night sky, for the Swindon Centre Backs to deal with when it came back down

 

"The players decided to boot it away" All by themselves ??? NOT under instruction from the Manager ????

 

In that case, as the Team were doing it all by themselves, no need to have a Manager is there ???

 

If Pardew did not instruct the players to Hoof the ball into the air, then why did he allow it to continue ?, because that course of action was getting us NOWHERE

 

You infer that you do not believe that Pardew instructed the Team to play that way, so, as he obviously has no control on how we play, he might just as well come and join us in the stands

 

The only good thing about Pardew is that you can set your clock as to when Barnard will be subbed

 

Sign of a great Manager that was, Lambert had taken a bad knock, and was struggling. But, don't change anything, stick to the script eh ??

 

Pardew showed how clueless he is, as time went on, when he was at Charlton

 

After Tuesday nights Saints performance, Carlisle must be really looking forward to the 28th:cool:

 

If you watched Pardew on tuesday he was doing his nut on the side lines shouting at the players you could see issed he was with them in the second half. I do not believe any manager in any league tells his player to hoof to the opposition (christ even the managers in my sons under nines league give better instuctions than that). The players have to take the wrap for tuesday to often the players get to hide behind the manager, the manager can not be held responsible for professional players not being able to string two passes together.

 

The fact is AP has still won more matches this season (which isn't over yet) than any saints manager has managed in any season in the last 26 years so he must be doing something right.

[broncoboy]

The fact is AP has still won more matches this season (which isn't over yet) than any saints manager has managed in any season in the last 26 years so he must be doing something right.

 

 

Its the third division , he has the top goalscorer and we are the 11th highest spending club in English football and we are tenth in the league. Thirty odd points off the leader and 17 or so off a playoff place.

 

We have seen some good games but we really let ourselves down on more than one occasion.

 

That doesnt make him brilliant

[Glasgow_Saint]

 

The fact is AP has still won more matches this season (which isn't over yet) than any saints manager has managed in any season in the last 26 years so he must be doing something right.

 

You realise that we are in L1? You're comparing stats from our time in the top divisions with a season in one of the lowest.

 

100% moot

[up and away]

I'd agree if we had spent all the money in August and started with the team we have now but we didn't. We blew this season in august and september with such a slow start that we were always going to struggle. We tried to paper over the cracks by throwing money at them in january. If we had had the team we have know in august we would have won more games IMO, but building a team is not an overnight job. Norwich, Leeds, Swindon built theirs in the summer and the difference shows our team has changed a lot since August and it shows.

 

We never blew this season in August, we blew it in December for a number of reasons which all go back to the manager. Pardew got us into that position, then took it away.

 

We got within touching distance of the play offs, only to dispense with the 451 that actually got us into that position. All we had to do at that point was to minimise our losses, until we could get the players in the January window.

 

If we had continued just playing Connolly for 45 minutes a game, how long could we have extended his involvement? Even when playing the 90 and fit, it was not the answer as we soon found out.

 

If we prioritised the league rather than the cups, another area where we could have picked up points.

 

Why was Gillett never brought back in the beginning of December, where we had mounting problems and a vital need in midfield. There is no way anyone can say that whilst doing a very good job for Doncaster against far better opposition, he could not of been of some value for us as a defensive midfielder. To try and fail is one thing, to not even bother is criminal.

 

Many fans point out the good football and the excitement of a Wembley appearance to come. Well in my mind, we have just sacrificed one Wembley appearance for another. Just ask yourself if you had the chance of going to Wembley for the JPT or the play offs, which would you pick? That puts a different colour on those apples.

[doddisalegend]

The fact is AP has still won more matches this season (which isn't over yet) than any saints manager has managed in any season in the last 26 years so he must be doing something right.

 

 

Its the third division , he has the top goalscorer and we are the 11th highest spending club in English football and we are tenth in the league. Thirty odd points off the leader and 17 or so off a playoff place.

 

We have seen some good games but we really let ourselves down on more than one occasion.

 

That doesnt make him brilliant

 

No it doesn't but it does make him better than any of the others we've had.

 

We're are a league one side with league one players. Other managers had better players to do the job with and all underachieved. Burley spent 7 million and won less matches. It's all relative yes we're in the third division but we have third division players. It's the mind set of many fans thats the problem they need to accept that teams like Swindon and Millwall are our level now. We are in league one the teams around us are not massively worse like many fans seem to think. So often I see people on here rubbishing oppostion teams with no actual knowledge of the other team at all they just assume we must be better becuase we used to play with the big boys in the EPL.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Glasgow I laugh every time you say that by being a saints fan you've accepted second best for years. You have to go back a long way to find a time when when we where top of the tree, even under WGS in arguably our best season for years I think we made it as high as fourth best in the country for about a week. So in effect you have settled for second best by becoming a saints fan.

 

I think the point is we have NEVER been top of the tree. By supporting Southampton, we have accepted mediocrity. That's why I see this season as a good season, as we've won more than we've lost.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

We never blew this season in August, we blew it in December for a number of reasons which all go back to the manager. Pardew got us into that position, then took it away.

 

We got within touching distance of the play offs, only to dispense with the 451 that actually got us into that position. All we had to do at that point was to minimise our losses, until we could get the players in the January window.

If we had continued just playing Connolly for 45 minutes a game, how long could we have extended his involvement? Even when playing the 90 and fit, it was not the answer as we soon found out.

 

If we prioritised the league rather than the cups, another area where we could have picked up points.

 

Why was Gillett never brought back in the beginning of December, where we had mounting problems and a vital need in midfield. There is no way anyone can say that whilst doing a very good job for Doncaster against far better opposition, he could not of been of some value for us as a defensive midfielder. To try and fail is one thing, to not even bother is criminal.

 

Many fans point out the good football and the excitement of a Wembley appearance to come. Well in my mind, we have just sacrificed one Wembley appearance for another. Just ask yourself if you had the chance of going to Wembley for the JPT or the play offs, which would you pick? That puts a different colour on those apples.

 

Was this the same 4-5-1 that everyone criticised on this forum as too defensive, and saying we needed to stick 2 strikers up front?

[Glasgow_Saint]

I think the point is we have NEVER been top of the tree. By supporting Southampton, we have accepted mediocrity. That's why I see this season as a good season, as we've won more than we've lost.

 

Five out of four people have trouble with fractions.

[PokingFun]

I do not see any wrong in criticism, as lonf as your do not enter the realms of swearing

 

I personally have changed my opinion about Pardew, and that view was cemented after Tuesdays performance v Swindo

 

How can ANY Manager send a team out with the instructions to boot the ball as high as you can, as many times as you can. Absoulutely terrible

 

We have the best pitch in Div 1, and we HAVE in the past played great one touch along the carpet type Football

 

But Tuesdays performance was Abysmal IMHO, and Swindon thoroughly deserved to win

 

I do not think Pardew is the man to lead us UPWARDS, and I also think that he was not really interested in the Play Offs this season (Negative thinking)

 

It really bugs me that he was allowed to assemble a Squad, which on it's day is worthy of the CCC, yet, under HIS guidance has dropped MANY points since that squad took to the pitch

 

Too much emphasis was placed on the JPT, and although the 28th will be good as a Day out, come the cold light of day on the 29th, people will finally begin to realise the wonderful world of DIVISION 1 for 2010/11

 

If I were not a cynic, it would not surprise me at all that Pardew was giving a Two Fingered Salute.

 

No rift, you must be joking, it's bigger than the one if Africa:cool:

 

I'm sorry but you must have been watching a different game to me then.

 

We had numerous chances and on a different day would have been well in command.

 

Swindon to their credit stuck at their task and made it difficult for us to pass the ball well but even then we still went close with several chances. Hit post, one cleared off line, disallowed goal for a marginal offside, couple of good saves by their keeper versus one good chance they had. I did not see a team trying to hoof it up in the air in that half.

 

Second half they came out and dominated and naturally we had to resort to clearing our lines somewhat which tends to mean playing longer. They managed to get their goal which looked dangerously close to offside and after that we dominated again and even hit the bar and had another cleared off the line.

 

Have a look at the BBC replay and you will see how Saints dominated for big spells. Unfortunately it just wasn't to be our night. Thats football. Why it has to always be someone's fault is beyond me.

 

Summary was that we didnt play quite as well as we have done but then you cant repeat Huddersfield and Walsall every game against decent opposition. They were well organised and discliplined. We had no luck in front of goal. They got a decent break to score and held on. End of story.

[Noodles34]

AP is doing an OK(ish) job, nothing more nowt less.

 

Dependent on your expectations, ambition ect will determine your summary of AP so far. Some are obsessed with the past and really believe that AP had the world’s toughest job while others (me included) feel that he has one of the easier jobs and has been backed both by fans and owners.

 

I expected more this season (particularly with all the £’s spent) so in my opinion he has so far failed – my expectations (as proven) are a lot higher than others on here, but that’s how I live my life and how I have become so successful.

Never settle for second best and right now AP’s ‘OK’ job would give him till Xmas, without significant improvements he should go……

 

what a knob! So successful you spend most of your time on here eh? Probably cruising Facebook etc as well.

But maybe i am wrong about you? What are you/have you been so successful at please?

[doddisalegend]

We never blew this season in August, we blew it in December for a number of reasons which all go back to the manager. Pardew got us into that position, then took it away.

 

We got within touching distance of the play offs, only to dispense with the 451 that actually got us into that position. All we had to do at that point was to minimise our losses, until we could get the players in the January window.

 

If we had continued just playing Connolly for 45 minutes a game, how long could we have extended his involvement? Even when playing the 90 and fit, it was not the answer as we soon found out.

 

If we prioritised the league rather than the cups, another area where we could have picked up points.

 

Why was Gillett never brought back in the beginning of December, where we had mounting problems and a vital need in midfield. There is no way anyone can say that whilst doing a very good job for Doncaster against far better opposition, he could not of been of some value for us as a defensive midfielder. To try and fail is one thing, to not even bother is criminal.

 

Many fans point out the good football and the excitement of a Wembley appearance to come. Well in my mind, we have just sacrificed one Wembley appearance for another. Just ask yourself if you had the chance of going to Wembley for the JPT or the play offs, which would you pick? That puts a different colour on those apples.

 

I can't agree Leeds and Charlton have both wobbled but they're still up top becuase they had such strong starts, got their noses far enough in front to be able to afford a wobble. Their first year down here leeds got of to a very strong start and that allowed them to keep up with the top teams despite the points deduction. Our slow start got us into a postion where every game since christmas has been a must win game becuase we've always been chasing the pack.

 

As for Gillet you like him fine but he is pants IMO I'd rather we'd play Wotton. The 4-5-1 didn't seem to work very well I went to several matches where we only got going once we went 4-4-2. We played with 4-5-1 and while we might get a lot of the ball we couldn't do anything with it, as soon as we swopped to 4-4-2 we got goals. So I imagine the manager came to the same conclusion as me. I'm not going to blame the manager for Conolloy not staying fit I'd of been more upset if hadn't tried to put a player of Conolly's calibare on the pitch as often as possible.

 

Also can't agree about cups. I hate this modern obbsession with all wanting to get back to the EPL and ignoring the cups. I grew up loving the FA cup, and while the carling and JPT are not quite in the same calibre I still would love to win them. I'd be more than happy if I was offered mid table every year in the coke-a-cola with the guarntee of winning one cup competition every year.

[Glasgow_Saint]

what a knob! So successful you spend most of your time on here eh? Probably cruising Facebook etc as well.

But maybe i am wrong about you? What are you/have you been so successful at please?

 

Deceive the rich and powerful if you will, but don't insult them.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

No manager will ever have everyone on side so criticism is inevitable, I don't think a comparison to any manager over the last 26 years is a fair one, who knows what Gray, Wigley, Sturrock etc..could have done in this league with the same funds available, I don't like inconsistency any more than the next fan but this season has brought us something that wasn't on my radar in the summer, Wembley and safety by Christmas.

[Noodles34]

You realise that we are in L1? You're comparing stats from our time in the top divisions with a season in one of the lowest.

 

100% moot

 

Its relative to the division you knob

[Noodles34]

Deceive the rich and powerful if you will, but don't insult them.

 

sorry, you haven't answered the question....

[doddisalegend]

You realise that we are in L1? You're comparing stats from our time in the top divisions with a season in one of the lowest.

 

100% moot

 

Not at all we had better players in the top flights (with the exception of last year) yet we did no better. People where happy to accept far worse results in the higher leagues including it would seem you Mr I don't accept second best (unless it's in the EPL).

[ecuk268]

I think the point is we have NEVER been top of the tree. By supporting Southampton, we have accepted mediocrity. That's why I see this season as a good season, as we've won more than we've lost.

 

I don't think we've accepted mediocrity. We should aim to be among the best of our peers and I think we are now. However, in August we were a demoralised, not very good team. The 5-year plan is still on track.

 

Please let's not go back to the managerial revolving door.

[CB Fry]

Its relative to the division you knob

 

 

And "relative to the division" we are Chelsea/Man U/Man City in terms of spending. So "winning more than Dave Merrington did" is not really the benchmark we should be aiming for, is it.

[Noodles34]

Man Utd didn't start with - 10 points, a new manager and a new owner, correct me if i am wrong but didn't Fergie nearly get them relegated in his first year? Chelsea have hardly spent a penny this year and City, well on yours and GS's theory should be 10 points clear of the EPL, so it is relative.