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Did the JPT cost us the Play Offs?


Ian the Red

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Well as my mates will confirm I simply wanted us to get out of the JPT. Yes, it was a great day out at Wembley, wonderful experience but nothing like the '76 FA Cup or the '79 League Cup Finals. Those finals meant something to football..... The Johnstone Paint Brush who really gives a damn????

 

We need to get our focus right, we need to be in the Premiership as soon as possible. This is a wasted season IMHO, we have 54 points and have, as usual thrown away at least 10-15 points thro sloopy play or simply because we had to make so many changes due to players being cup tied. We lack mental strength.

 

Ok we can, in theory make the play offs, 77 points would be our total if, a big, huge if, we win all 8 remaining games. Will that be enough??

 

So League 1 next season, even me, I am definitely a half full glass person is dissappointing; with the players we now have not to win at Wycombe, Tranmere, Brighton & Brentford is not right. Indeed 3 points from a possible 12 from just these 4 games is not acceptable.

 

To play 5 in midfield in a game we had to win was not right. We needed to attack, to put Brighton on the back foot. We did not, they scored.

 

We need to ensure that the focus is right for next season. Nothing but automatic promtion is acceptable.

 

Get it right AP, you have the ability, but do you have the self belief?

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Well as my mates will confirm I simply wanted us to get out of the JPT. Yes, it was a great day out at Wembley, wonderful experience but nothing like the '76 FA Cup or the '79 League Cup Finals. Those finals meant something to football..... The Johnstone Paint Brush who really gives a damn????

 

We need to get our focus right, we need to be in the Premiership as soon as possible. This is a wasted season IMHO, we have 54 points and have, as usual thrown away at least 10-15 points thro sloopy play or simply because we had to make so many changes due to players being cup tied. We lack mental strength.

 

Ok we can, in theory make the play offs, 77 points would be our total if, a big, huge if, we win all 8 remaining games. Will that be enough??

 

So League 1 next season, even me, I am definitely a half full glass person is dissappointing; with the players we now have not to win at Wycombe, Tranmere, Brighton & Brentford is not right. Indeed 3 points from a possible 12 from just these 4 games is not acceptable.

 

To play 5 in midfield in a game we had to win was not right. We needed to attack, to put Brighton on the back foot. We did not, they scored.

 

We need to ensure that the focus is right for next season. Nothing but automatic promtion is acceptable.

 

Get it right AP, you have the ability, but do you have the self belief?

 

Why do we need to get back as soon as possible?? Look at Derby when they went up to the Prem when they clearly weren't ready...they were absolutely humilated.

 

It's surely better to build a winning cohesive side that know each other's games and go up when ready and solid. A good example is Steve Coppell's Reading side that had a couple of steady seasons in the Championship, with a squad that grew cohesively together and had familiarity and experience as a winning side. Then everything clicked and they took the Championship by storm and had a great following season in the Prem.

 

Yes it would be a nice bonus if we'd overcome the -10 and the instability of the summer and sneaked up this season, but the squad building process over the coming summer will be the same if we stay down then it would be if we go up.

 

In addition (assuming the right additions are made in the summer), don't underestimate the benefits of having a league-winning season on the players and the associated momemtum we could take into the championship in the season after next. We're certainly not in any rush to get back into the prem. If we're going to get there I'd rather we were a consistently winning side (Reading, Wigan, Sunderland) than a flukey, scrape into the playoffs side (Derby, Hull...etc)

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Huddersfield still have to play Colchester and Millwall

 

Colchester still have to play Millwall, Huddersfield and Swindon

 

 

...not quite over yet (fat ladies and all that) and we al know that officially football is a funny old game

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Yes, but that was at least understandable. Anyone with any knowledge of football knows that, especially from the position we were in. I'm not saying we should be in the playoffs, but that is the reason we aren't.

 

totally agree, but that sort of reasoning is lost on many tbh.

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The Premiership is somewhere we will get to - silverware and a day out at Wembley is priceless reagardless of it's validity, alot of people will be talking about Sunday alot longer than the potential failure to get promoted this seasons - it'll also add a few more fans to the books.

 

Johnathan Pearce ode to Saints at the end of Late Kick Off said it all for me.

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Why do we need to get back as soon as possible?? Look at Derby when they went up to the Prem when they clearly weren't ready...they were absolutely humilated.

 

It's surely better to build a winning cohesive side that know each other's games and go up when ready and solid. A good example is Steve Coppell's Reading side that had a couple of steady seasons in the Championship, with a squad that grew cohesively together and had familiarity and experience as a winning side. Then everything clicked and they took the Championship by storm and had a great following season in the Prem.

 

Yes it would be a nice bonus if we'd overcome the -10 and the instability of the summer and sneaked up this season, but the squad building process over the coming summer will be the same if we stay down then it would be if we go up.

 

In addition (assuming the right additions are made in the summer), don't underestimate the benefits of having a league-winning season on the players and the associated momemtum we could take into the championship in the season after next. We're certainly not in any rush to get back into the prem. If we're going to get there I'd rather we were a consistently winning side (Reading, Wigan, Sunderland) than a flukey, scrape into the playoffs side (Derby, Hull...etc)

 

Agree totally. Premiership is overrated.

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Why do we need to get back as soon as possible?? Look at Derby when they went up to the Prem when they clearly weren't ready...they were absolutely humilated.

 

It's surely better to build a winning cohesive side that know each other's games and go up when ready and solid. A good example is Steve Coppell's Reading side that had a couple of steady seasons in the Championship, with a squad that grew cohesively together and had familiarity and experience as a winning side. Then everything clicked and they took the Championship by storm and had a great following season in the Prem.

 

Yes it would be a nice bonus if we'd overcome the -10 and the instability of the summer and sneaked up this season, but the squad building process over the coming summer will be the same if we stay down then it would be if we go up.

 

In addition (assuming the right additions are made in the summer), don't underestimate the benefits of having a league-winning season on the players and the associated momemtum we could take into the championship in the season after next. We're certainly not in any rush to get back into the prem. If we're going to get there I'd rather we were a consistently winning side (Reading, Wigan, Sunderland) than a flukey, scrape into the playoffs side (Derby, Hull...etc)

 

Rightyho, if it makes you feel better to think that...

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Jeez some folk on here wouldn't be happy if they won £25m................ Simply because their winnings were delivered in £1 coins.

 

There was a bloke on our bus on Sunday moaning that at 4-1 up AP brought on Gillet and took the impetus out of the team: "what was he doing??!!". ...... No fear, I told him what I thought of such a stupid statement.

 

Some folks want us to go from near oblivion at Breakfast and in the Premiership by Tea time, that in itself is a recipe for disaster

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Rightyho, if it makes you feel better to think that...

 

It's called perspective! Football would be a pretty boring game if we only looked at the downsides of failure and the good sides of success.

 

I was putting forward my argument for not rushing back into the premiership. Do you have a counter-argument, or are you just going to write something dismissive and p*ss-taking?

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For those who didnt go to FA or leaque cup final the JPT was a fantastic day, a great atmospher and meant a lot. its probally harder to get to a cup final than to get promotion. I am very pleased Saints won JPT even at the expense of promotion as I dont think we had gain enough points at the first half of seaosn anyway which was down to the team not being quite right in balance or fitness etc.

 

The JTP is for Div 3 and 4 teams as its vertually impossible for one of them to get to the FA Cup...so in perspective its a brilliant win.and the first i have seen since 77/78.

 

I dont think promotion will be a problem in the future.

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For those who didnt go to FA or leaque cup final the JPT was a fantastic day, a great atmospher and meant a lot. its probally harder to get to a cup final than to get promotion. I am very pleased Saints won JPT even at the expense of promotion as I dont think we had gain enough points at the first half of seaosn anyway which was down to the team not being quite right in balance or fitness etc.

 

The JTP is for Div 3 and 4 teams as its vertually impossible for one of them to get to the FA Cup...so in perspective its a brilliant win.and the first i have seen since 77/78.

 

I dont think promotion will be a problem in the future.

 

You are entitled to your opinion and emotional responses, but I must admit to feeling severly depressed when I read your post.

 

So many of our fans have placed a short-term emotional gratification over the real long-term well-being of the club. I find that very troubling.

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The JPT didn't cost us.

 

The instability from the period of adminsitration coupled with a lack of preperation for the season as a result did contribute.

 

The club is still building, still adjusting. It is very evident that in ideal conditions we can beat anyone, but those conditions do not exist at all grounds and clubs

 

Our response to this next year is key. But we do not need a totally flawless record to go up. Just ask S****horpe, Peterborough, Bristol City and Plymouth Argyle of this.

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You are entitled to your opinion and emotional responses, but I must admit to feeling severly depressed when I read your post.

 

So many of our fans have placed a short-term emotional gratification over the real long-term well-being of the club. I find that very troubling.

 

Bless you alpine, bless you muchly. ;)

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Why do I love going to footie? To watch MY team play football and win. We're currently winning more than we lose and we've just won some silverware at our National Stadium. Promotion will be great if we achieve it, however I will not be totally devastated if we don't. Matchdays at SMS is what it's all about for me. I pity all those who cannot (or will not) attend the games and can only comment about how the feel about the result. Bit like the song - it's not always about reaching the summit of the mountain - it's the climb that counts.

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Has the JPT cost us promotion? I'm not so sure, AP used it as a tool to change the woeful losing attitude that the club had running through it top to bottom. Without the JPT cup run it could well have taken longer for the teams mental strength to improve. Can you remember in the first ten games how many times we threw away a lead. How even now a lot of us still get jittery at the end of games. It takes a long time for that winning mental attitude to become part & parcel of a teams performance. All-right things aren't quite perfect yet, but we are harder to beat & more resilient & even if its only the JPT we are for only the second time in my life WINNERS.

Now I hope that next year we take it for what it is & play some squad members & rotate the squad for it, but I don't see why we can't win it again & Gain automatic promotion.

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Regarding this whole 'is quick promotion that important' debate...

 

Markus didn't buy this club to languish in the lower leagues. He's not putting HIS money into the club, players and the training ground to languish in the lower leagues and win trophies that most people haven't heard of. And you can bet your bottom dollar that he and NC won't be sitting in the exec box against Orient on Monday thinking 'this is great, so much better than the overrated Premier League'.

 

Sure, for the most part this season has been enjoyable. Sunday was great and I hope it spurs loads of new people to take an interest in the club. But the point is Premiership football - as soon as possible.

 

People are taking it for granted that we will storm the league next year, which we might. But if we lose one or two players to injury in September, we could be knackered.

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Our cup runs have both cost us promotion.

 

Nope I think this season was about consolidation not promotion. The JPT was a bonus. For me this season has been about being grateful that we still have a club to support and feeling the difference in the positive atittude and positive atmosphere sweeping the club from top to bottom. Watching the final made me realise that finally for the first time in years we have a fan base that believes and is behind the players and manager. We will walk this division next season. Feel free to join us.

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It's a fact that we rested some players due to the cup runs, so its easy to derive from this that its wrecked our play off hopes, but that doesn't tell the whole story

 

The cup runs will have given the club belief and the players belief that they can achieve and can win things whether its cups or promotions. This should provide the best platform for the club to go forward be it this season or next.

 

It might have been that this confidence gained from beating teams like Ipswich allowed us to go to Norwich and win.

 

Would we have struggled at places like Exeter this season if we were out of the cups? - quite possibly.

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Nope I think this season was about consolidation not promotion. The JPT was a bonus. For me this season has been about being grateful that we still have a club to support and feeling the difference in the positive atittude and positive atmosphere sweeping the club from top to bottom. Watching the final made me realise that finally for the first time in years we have a fan base that believes and is behind the players and manager. We will walk this division next season. Feel free to join us.

 

You are utterly deluded if you think we will walk this league next season. I really wonder where all this hubris and conceit comes from...

 

I too am grateful the club was saved from the edge of the abyss, but I think its been dined out on for long enough now. It doesnt excuse the sh*te served up against Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Swindon or Brighton.

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Half way through the season with 23 matches left we were 7 points off the play offs, now we have to win our last 8 games and make up 11 points.

 

We brought in Barnard, Puncheon, Seaborne and Otsemobor and despite the strength of the squad we underperformed most of the time.

 

In the fullness of time I feel that it will be proven that Pardew is a 'don't lose, no risk' manager not 'a get out there and win manager'. I see this morning that Norwich have won 23 of the last 28 games under a manager that gives it a go. Until we have a manager that believes in going all out and is brave we aren't going to be successful.

 

We have been tactically out manoeuvered on quite a few occasions this year and our compact formations have caused us to drop many points.

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We do seem to score a lot of goals for a team that does not go for it.

 

 

Plus all the misses from Lallana

 

You can make all the excuses you like, we haven't won enough games and drawn far too many, despite scoring plenty of goals against some teams, we were unable to, when we really needed to win. 17 wins in 38 games isn't good enough.

Edited by derry
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You are utterly deluded if you think we will walk this league next season. I really wonder where all this hubris and conceit comes from...

 

I too am grateful the club was saved from the edge of the abyss, but I think its been dined out on for long enough now. It doesnt excuse the sh*te served up against Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Swindon or Brighton.

 

I am not utterly deluded at all having attended every home game and enough away games to be in a position to form an opinion. We have only lost 8 games all season, 3 of which were in the pre-season period of Aug/Sept when we had only just had in place players, coaching staff and a scouting network. You say about things being dined out for long enough on this thread and yet on another are critical instant gratification - make your mind up. It seems to me that every week on the pre-match threads you salivate at the thought of defeat and poor performances, try to take some sort of moral highground when things don't go on plan (as they won't always) but are conspicuous by your absence when we win.

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I am not utterly deluded at all having attended every home game and enough away games to be in a position to form an opinion. We have only lost 8 games all season, 3 of which were in the pre-season period of Aug/Sept when we had only just had in place players, coaching staff and a scouting network. You say about things being dined out for long enough on this thread and yet on another are critical instant gratification - make your mind up. It seems to me that every week on the pre-match threads you salivate at the thought of defeat and poor performances, try to take some sort of moral highground when things don't go on plan (as they won't always) but are conspicuous by your absence when we win.

 

Then you are wrong. I dont call a whole season "instant gratification". And you are wrong about my outlook too - dead wrong. I am around when we win, and I genuinely hurt after results like last night and the thought we arent going to go up. Its really not nice observing this all going on from so far away.

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You are utterly deluded if you think we will walk this league next season. I really wonder where all this hubris and conceit comes from...

 

I too am grateful the club was saved from the edge of the abyss, but I think its been dined out on for long enough now. It doesnt excuse the sh*te served up against Wycombe, Tranmere, Exeter, Swindon or Brighton.

 

Ah, so the sh*te served up against other teams when we won is okay then? Do you really know anything about football? Even the greatest teams have days when they play poorly. The best teams lose to the worst. There is no way in either of our lifetimes that the Saints will go through a season without playing badly and without losing. That is a reality, why can't you deal with it?

 

Most teams will not get promoted every season. Most teams will not win a trophy. We have already acheived more then most teams will. A good thing? No?

 

Lat Sunday was a great advert for the club and a day that can be used to build on. The players, if they make the play offs next season will have the experience of having been there and winning. They have a taste of success, how can that be a bad thing?

 

There are many positives to be drawn from this season but it appears that some people wear sh*t coloured glasses and can't or don't want to see the progress we have made.

 

Yes, wouldn't it be great if it all happened over night? But for most it doesn't. It is probably better for the club if it happens in solid and sustainable way. Many sides have had some short term success only to fly too close to the Sun and come crashing down with a bang.

 

McMenemy was anything but an overnight success. After going down and struggling to come to terms with the 2nd Div, it took a trip to Wembley and a fw more inspired signings to get us promoted and several more seasons before we really started to compete..and that was before the ridiculous transfer window so you could rebuild through the season if you wanted to.

 

Ferguson struggled until he got it right at MoanU and they still lost the other night despite all of his knowledge and the talent on the pitch.

 

This childish petulance is very tiresome. Look up the word "support" and give it a try. You might like it.

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Then you are wrong. I dont call a whole season "instant gratification". And you are wrong about my outlook too - dead wrong. I am around when we win, and I genuinely hurt after results like last night and the thought we arent going to go up. Its really not nice observing this all going on from so far away.

 

Serious question - what were your expectations, when the season kicked off, that we would be promoted?

Edited by Katalinic
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If we are not going to enter competions for fear of winning one might have an adverse effect on another, what is the point? No one can say for sure what effect our cup runs have had on our league form but one thing is for sure, it is better to win something than nothing.

 

Over the years all of the managers I have respected say that they want to win every competion they enter and that being involved is as many as possible at the end of the season is a good thing.

 

The one exception was when Ferguson to decided to pull MoanU out of the FA Cup and look at the derision he faced from the football world, including his own fans when he did that!

 

We have won a trophy on a major stage, how an Earth can that be seen as a bad thing?

 

Hopefully this will be the springboard for more success.

 

At least we have some now.

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The JPT win was an indication that this club is going in the right direction.

No pre season,no settled side until october, plus the point deduction was always going to make the play-offs a tough ask.

The cup runs have been a hinderance but thats the price of success.

No excuses for next year the pressures on but i for one cant wait COYR.

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There was a combination thta cost us. First and most importantly was starting on minus 10, that was a daunting start and after 6 or 7 games it looked that we may be in a relegation fight.Once we had stabilised and got into positive territory we started to move up.

The League cup and FA cup runs did not help, it would have been best if we had got knocked out of the FA cup frst round as the run became a distraction .especially the Pompey game. Add the JPT and you see it was one of many reasons.

I will never regret the JPT run as it gave the floating fans the reason to support and watch us again, add the great feeling it gave not only the fans but the city and you have somethhing money can't buy.

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The JPT win was an indication that this club is going in the right direction.

No pre season,no settled side until october, plus the point deduction was always going to make the play-offs a tough ask.

The cup runs have been a hinderance but thats the price of success.

No excuses for next year the pressures on but i for one cant wait COYR.

 

We have improved over the season, in the first 12 home and 12 away league games we won 38 points, which equates to about 72 points over the season, in the last 12 home and 12 away matches we have won 45 points, which equates to about 86 points over the season, which will certainly make the play-offs even if we do not improve from this point

 

The point is we are continually improving, and as Leicester have proved this season a winning side has a chance to go straight through the Championship, which if AP strengthens as he has indicated he will in the summer, we would also have that opportunity in a couple of season time.

 

I have been watching since 1966, and that would represent as rapid an improvement as any over that time!

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Ah, so the sh*te served up against other teams when we won is okay then? Do you really know anything about football? Even the greatest teams have days when they play poorly. The best teams lose to the worst. There is no way in either of our lifetimes that the Saints will go through a season without playing badly and without losing. That is a reality, why can't you deal with it?

 

Most teams will not get promoted every season. Most teams will not win a trophy. We have already acheived more then most teams will. A good thing? No?

 

Lat Sunday was a great advert for the club and a day that can be used to build on. The players, if they make the play offs next season will have the experience of having been there and winning. They have a taste of success, how can that be a bad thing?

 

There are many positives to be drawn from this season but it appears that some people wear sh*t coloured glasses and can't or don't want to see the progress we have made.

 

Yes, wouldn't it be great if it all happened over night? But for most it doesn't. It is probably better for the club if it happens in solid and sustainable way. Many sides have had some short term success only to fly too close to the Sun and come crashing down with a bang.

 

McMenemy was anything but an overnight success. After going down and struggling to come to terms with the 2nd Div, it took a trip to Wembley and a fw more inspired signings to get us promoted and several more seasons before we really started to compete..and that was before the ridiculous transfer window so you could rebuild through the season if you wanted to.

 

Ferguson struggled until he got it right at MoanU and they still lost the other night despite all of his knowledge and the talent on the pitch.

 

This childish petulance is very tiresome. Look up the word "support" and give it a try. You might like it.

 

Cant be bothered any more SOGGY. Every time I answer any vaguely footballing point you have to make, you mix in loads of personal abuse. I am very bored of your psychotic stalking. Find another victim.

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Serious question - what were your expectations, when the season kicked off, that we would be promoted?

 

I think the more pertinent question was what my expectations were following the superb run from October to December, and following the massive investment in the team in the January window.

 

I expected the play-offs. Nothing more, nothing less.

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I think the more pertinent question was what my expectations were following the superb run from October to December, and following the massive investment in the team in the January window.

 

I expected the play-offs. Nothing more, nothing less.

I knew it! You are Nicola posting on here!

 

Alpine, should have been the clue we all spotted................... ;)

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