buctootim Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Fair comment. i abhor those credit companies who know that they can rip people off as they are a credit risk. never will they escape it , very sad and is not what capitalism is about IMo Bristol at 38.5% is certainly abhorrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Ok so lets accept the fact that the club aren't going to budge on the installments issue, but what reason have they given for No "Half Season" Tickets, which may well have been within the reach financially for those who hadn't put some money aside. Also they probably accounted for a fair few Xmas gifts as well. I reckon they realise they have ****ed it up already by extending the renewal dates, but it's probably a bit too late to make much of a difference to many fans now, who, as said elsewhere will simply cherry pick their games, depending on the opposition, weather, hairwashing requirements or time of the month!!, and if we don't set the league alight there will be vast empty spaces in the stands. The response from the club, and no reasons offered for the changes in the first place has been well below expected and hoped for standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Bristol at 38.5% is certainly abhorrent. Huge inflation in The Bristols Area certainly has its good points though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 I dont t usually agree with Stu but the club's communication, approach and logic has been poor. Expected better from SFC i agree the way they have treated our fellow saints fans with lack of what they planned to do- smacks of arrogance,it is a disgrace,i for one will not buy the new saints shirt ,programs or merchandise in future untill they treat us fans with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Can I just make a suggestion? It is obvious that the Club are not going to back down over this, surely banging on and on about it is going to intrench their position. Perhaps it is better to look towards next summer, perhaps arrange a meeting with NC and DL in the early part of 2011 and see if something can be thrashed out installment wise next year. Now it maybe that the Club are indeed trying to limit the amount of S/T's, but if gates are down (as most of the pro installment people believe they will be), the pro installment people's hand will be stronger. I just feel that if you back the Club into a corner, they will never back down and you'll never get your installment plan back. By taking the heat out of the situation for a few months, they may see the error of their ways, and agree to Stu's plans for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Saint Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 I think Stu should just take over the club. He has my backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Can I just make a suggestion? It is obvious that the Club are not going to back down over this, surely banging on and on about it is going to intrench their position. Perhaps it is better to look towards next summer, perhaps arrange a meeting with NC and DL in the early part of 2011 and see if something can be thrashed out installment wise next year. Now it maybe that the Club are indeed trying to limit the amount of S/T's, but if gates are down (as most of the pro installment people believe they will be), the pro installment people's hand will be stronger. I just feel that if you back the Club into a corner, they will never back down and you'll never get your installment plan back. By taking the heat out of the situation for a few months, they may see the error of their ways, and agree to Stu's plans for next season. That sounds like a good idea. What if the club, NC specifically, decides not to meet the fans? What if he meets them and refuses, out of hand, to commit to an installment plan? I think Stu is totally right in principle I just think, like you, that he will force NC into a corner. I really hope that NC is as astute as I believe he is and will see the installment option as blooming good business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Can I just make a suggestion? It is obvious that the Club are not going to back down over this, surely banging on and on about it is going to intrench their position. Perhaps it is better to look towards next summer, perhaps arrange a meeting with NC and DL in the early part of 2011 and see if something can be thrashed out installment wise next year. Now it maybe that the Club are indeed trying to limit the amount of S/T's, but if gates are down (as most of the pro installment people believe they will be), the pro installment people's hand will be stronger. I just feel that if you back the Club into a corner, they will never back down and you'll never get your installment plan back. By taking the heat out of the situation for a few months, they may see the error of their ways, and agree to Stu's plans for next season. reasonable suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Can I just make a suggestion? It is obvious that the Club are not going to back down over this, surely banging on and on about it is going to intrench their position. Perhaps it is better to look towards next summer, perhaps arrange a meeting with NC and DL in the early part of 2011 and see if something can be thrashed out installment wise next year. Now it maybe that the Club are indeed trying to limit the amount of S/T's, but if gates are down (as most of the pro installment people believe they will be), the pro installment people's hand will be stronger. I just feel that if you back the Club into a corner, they will never back down and you'll never get your installment plan back. By taking the heat out of the situation for a few months, they may see the error of their ways, and agree to Stu's plans for next season. Fair enough point, but it's much less of an issue next year. If people assume that the installment plan is not going to be there then they still have months to save up to pay up front by July. Its the lack of notice that has caught out many this year. What I consider most worrying is that, despite having surely received many complaints about the sudden shelving of the installment plan, the club have still not formally commented publicly on the matter. If the club are going to promote themselves through the medium of a fans charter and then choose to re-write certain sections of that document just months later, I think we (the customers) deserve a little more explanation than "it costs too much, end of". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 huge majority of saints fans still have the feel good factor at mo and are looking forward to the new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 huge majority of saints fans still have the feel good factor at mo and are looking forward to the new season. That's very true Nick, and I'm one of them. It doesn't mean that we can't ask genuine questions of the club's actions though; the two are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Its the lack of notice that has caught out many this year. I'm glad someone gets it! If they'd told me months ago that they were going to pull the plan I would have put the money aside as I will now do for next season. Instead I'm given a month to find the cash for my tickets for lose my hefty discount. Thankfully I can afford it but I know families who can't and haven't renewed, and it will tend to be the ordinary families with a number of season tickets that are hit hardest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 19 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2010 (edited) That sounds like a good idea. What if the club, NC specifically, decides not to meet the fans? What if he meets them and refuses, out of hand, to commit to an installment plan? I think Stu is totally right in principle I just think, like you, that he will force NC into a corner. I really hope that NC is as astute as I believe he is and will see the installment option as blooming good business. The club WILL have an installment plan next year regardless of whether we get promoted or not. Reasons? Because if we don't get promoted he will have to take the safety net of getting the season ticket holders in as there is no guarantee that people will turn up on the day the next season. If we do get promoted there is no certainty that we will be challenging near the top so again, you need to get a commitment from the punters. The installment plan WILL come back, not because it is the best thing to do for the fans, but because it is best business practice. Regardless of our performance this year, I think Cortese is heading for a massive fail. I predict no more than 12,000 for Dagenham and Redbridge in November for example. How many people are honestly going to stump up £25 to watch Saints against that shower of sh!te? Seriously. A few more predictions... The membership policy will have a buying reason which means you have no choice but to buy one, probably a clause on away tickets ( which generally this season will be on sale or return basis so no risk to the club) which means you HAVE to be a member to buy one. If we have a slow start and are completely off the place, our super chairman will decide to sell half-season tickets to try and recover some of the costs. The beer/food at St Marys will rise well above the rate of inflation. The club will try and squeeze money out of people left, right and centre... it seems people like Nick G are happy to let that happen. The Travel Club ( non-profit LMFAO ) prices will be significantly more... on that point whilst we are here, the club advertised the travel club as just that. Non-Profit... how come I managed to run 3 coaches up to Wembley for the JPT Final at £5 LESS per person than what they offered, AND at a profit? Edited 19 June, 2010 by StuRomseySaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 The club WILL have an installment plan next year regardless of whether we get promoted or not. Reasons? Because if we don't get promoted he will have to take the safety net of getting the season ticket holders in as there is no guarantee that people will turn up on the day the next season. If we do get promoted there is no certainty that we will be challenging near the top so again, you need to get a commitment fromthe punters. The installment plan WILL come back, not because it is the best thing to do for the fans, but because it is best business practice. Regardless of our performance this year, I think Cortese is heading for a massive fail. I predict no more than 12,000 for Dagenham and Redbridge in November for example. How many people are honestly going to stump up £25 to watch Saints against that shower of sh!te? Seriously. A few more predictions... The membership policy will have a buying reason which means you have no choice but to buy one, probably a clause on away tickets ( which generally this week are on sale or return basis so no risk to the club) which means you HAVE to be a member to buy one. If we have a slow start and are completely off the place, our super chairman will decide to sell half-season tickets to try and recover some of the costs. The beer/food at St Marys will rise well above the rate of inflation. The club will try and squeeze money out of people left, right and centre... it seems people like Nick G are happy to let that happen. The Travel Club ( non-profit LMFAO ) prices will be significantly more... on that point whilst we are here, the club advertised the travel club as just that. Non-Profit... how come I managed to run 3 coaches up to Wembley for the JPT Final at £5 LESS per person than what they offered, AND at a profit? And low it came to pass that a great pestilence spread across the Earth and Satan, who is called Cortese, ruled supreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Fair enough point, but it's much less of an issue next year. If people assume that the installment plan is not going to be there then they still have months to save up to pay up front by July. Its the lack of notice that has caught out many this year. What I consider most worrying is that, despite having surely received many complaints about the sudden shelving of the installment plan, the club have still not formally commented publicly on the matter. If the club are going to promote themselves through the medium of a fans charter and then choose to re-write certain sections of that document just months later, I think we (the customers) deserve a little more explanation than "it costs too much, end of". Absolutely spot on. The half season tickets costs the club, nothing... Fook all.. I think we deserve an answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 surely there is going to be a fans forum soon..? there is no way that this issue will not get mentioned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 19 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2010 surely there is going to be a fans forum soon..? there is no way that this issue will not get mentioned... I forgot to add that into my predictions. I also predict there will be no 'open' fans forum, and it will be a 1 hour interview with Cortese with questions cherry picked for Cortese to answer. There is absolutely no chance of an open fans forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 surely there is going to be a fans forum soon..? there is no way that this issue will not get mentioned... I get the feeling that the fans forum will either not happen, or will be a massively watered down version of previous years. For some reason the club have decided to become much more introspective in the way they operate and seem far more unwilling to answer direct questions and concerns from their customers. The sudden retraction and lack of a public statement for the installment plan, the new ticket levy, the ditching of the half season tickets; all of these deserve a much better explanation than we've been given. Yet the club have steadfastedly refuse to elaborate on their extremely limited statements given. Given that I just can't see NC putting himself in the firing line to answer some tough questions; especially when he is obviously unwilling to issue a statement on behalf of the club addressing these concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Fair enough point, but it's much less of an issue next year. If people assume that the installment plan is not going to be there then they still have months to save up to pay up front by July. Its the lack of notice that has caught out many this year. I'm in agreement with this point. As for the rest I can quite see why the club don't want to be bothered with only 1000 people using the facility. I presume they assume that people have other and cheaper lines of credit (loans, overdrafts, credit cards, perish the thought savings), and if they haven't they don't feel they should encourage people to buy something they can't afford at rates of interest (or collection fees to keep Stu happy) which are usurious. But the lack of communication from the club has been bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkySaint Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 Exacltly. How can England be more important than? Its like cheating on your girlfriend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 19 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 June, 2010 I'm in agreement with this point. As for the rest I can quite see why the club don't want to be bothered with only 1000 people using the facility. I presume they assume that people have other and cheaper lines of credit (loans, overdrafts, credit cards, perish the thought savings), and if they haven't they don't feel they should encourage people to buy something they can't afford at rates of interest (or collection fees to keep Stu happy) which are usurious. But the lack of communication from the club has been bad. Oh look, there's another person who doesn't even live in the f*cking country, let alone have a season ticket who has an opinion on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 June, 2010 Share Posted 19 June, 2010 surely there is going to be a fans forum soon..? there is no way that this issue will not get mentioned... you mean customer forum surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Absolutely spot on. The half season tickets costs the club, nothing... Fook all.. I think we deserve an answer... It's simple. By Christmas the club should be riding high with SMS running at or close to capacity. The club can get more through ticket sales (especially ticket sales with the £3 rip off booking tax added on) so they don't want to sell half season tickets at a discounted rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 you mean customer forum surely? either way..? still the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 The Travel Club ( non-profit LMFAO ) prices will be significantly more... on that point whilst we are here, the club advertised the travel club as just that. Non-Profit... how come I managed to run 3 coaches up to Wembley for the JPT Final at £5 LESS per person than what they offered, AND at a profit? To be fair to the club, they would have had overheads that you did not. For example, the staff organising the travel would have been salaried and I am sure as an 'official' travel provider, liability insurance would have had to been paid by the club.....what if one of your coaches crashed and someone died, as the organiser, would you have been covered? These overheads might not completely cover the £5 per head, but the difference between your costs and those of the club are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 20 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 20 June, 2010 To be fair to the club, they would have had overheads that you did not. For example, the staff organising the travel would have been salaried and I am sure as an 'official' travel provider, liability insurance would have had to been paid by the club.....what if one of your coaches crashed and someone died, as the organiser, would you have been covered? These overheads might not completely cover the £5 per head, but the difference between your costs and those of the club are different. Liability Insurance falls at the hands of the coach company, regardless who books it, I would be certain of that. Seriously mate, I admire your love of all things SFC and Cortese, but the reality is the coaches would have cost them no more than £15 per head ( one of my coaches was just over £10 a head it was a banger though ), meaning they had £10 per person profit, for simply sending out a ticket. Stewards who go on the coaches do it for free in exchange for a ticket for the match ( or at least that is how it always used to be ) . And also don't forget it was just So, let's say that the top end of the scale, £15 a head ( which allows for £2-£3 a head administration ) , the club make £10 a head on Travel Club seats. By my sums that netted the club a cool £50,000 profit for Wembley. Niiiiiice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Are we slating the club for wanting to make money now? Or were the coaches meant to be non-profit or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Are we slating the club for wanting to make money now? Or were the coaches meant to be non-profit or something. My friend travelled from Whitley Bay to Wembley for some match for £25 I thought it was a good deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 20 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Are we slating the club for wanting to make money now? Or were the coaches meant to be non-profit or something. The Travel Club was advertised as a non-profit organisation and that is how the Wembley coaches were advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 The Travel Club was advertised as a non-profit organisation and that is how the Wembley coaches were advertised. and you know for sure if they made money or not..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 To be fair at £25 it cost less than it did me getting the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 20 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 20 June, 2010 and you know for sure if they made money or not..? I know how much the coaches cost, and it wasn't anywhere near £25 Dulldays. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know there is not £500 in costs for each coach that was hired. I admire your resistance to being able to accepting that there is another lie from the supporters charter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 surely there is going to be a fans forum soon..? there is no way that this issue will not get mentioned... And if there is not a fans forum? How would your feelings be then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Seriously mate, I admire your love of all things SFC and Cortese, Hey, I am not so blind that I don't see what is going on. For me, a business should make it as easy as possible to enable customers to transact with them. The cost argument for not offering installments doesn't hold water - they could simply add any costs to the overall cost, which would be spread with installments (this is ignoring your research into available installment plans). Selling ST's also helps the business in terms of cash flow and reducing overall ticketing costs as seats are sold in bulk. Anyway this has all been done to death, but I am sympathetic to your view. Stewards who go on the coaches do it for free in exchange for a ticket for the match ( or at least that is how it always used to be ) . Surely the club has to pay for the free steward tickets which adds an additional cost that I had not thought of. If that is one steward per coach, with 50 people on it, then that is nearly £0.50 per head, a cost that you did not have. I help organise a real ale and jazz festival which raises funds for a Cricket and Hockey club which heavily relies on volunteer support. If you 'costed' the volunteer support, then the money raised would be far less. This can apply to your organising coaches where you were not salaried and had it been costed properly, the gap between your ticket price and the club's ticket price would have been much smaller. You may be able to do it for less, but the gap will be smaller than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 20 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 20 June, 2010 Hey, I am not so blind that I don't see what is going on. For me, a business should make it as easy as possible to enable customers to transact with them. The cost argument for not offering installments doesn't hold water - they could simply add any costs to the overall cost, which would be spread with installments (this is ignoring your research into available installment plans). Selling ST's also helps the business in terms of cash flow and reducing overall ticketing costs as seats are sold in bulk. Anyway this has all been done to death, but I am sympathetic to your view. Surely the club has to pay for the free steward tickets which adds an additional cost that I had not thought of. If that is one steward per coach, with 50 people on it, then that is nearly £0.50 per head, a cost that you did not have. I help organise a real ale and jazz festival which raises funds for a Cricket and Hockey club which heavily relies on volunteer support. If you 'costed' the volunteer support, then the money raised would be far less. This can apply to your organising coaches where you were not salaried and had it been costed properly, the gap between your ticket price and the club's ticket price would have been much smaller. You may be able to do it for less, but the gap will be smaller than you think. Regardless of exact numbers, I am willing to stick my neck out and say that they made a profit on each and every coach. As a group booking they would have got more discounts than I managed to get hold of. The Wembley parking was £60 ( which I didn't have to pay because we parked in the Green Man Pub ) and I even paid someone £50 each to look after the coaches I wasn't on. There is no way it cost the club anywhere near £25 a head to run the coaches. They were in demand, so they priced them up. Just another lie from the club. Funny that they will be running coaches to Brentford next season, a few miles from Wembley, for less than £15 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 20 June, 2010 Share Posted 20 June, 2010 The club WILL have an installment plan next year regardless of whether we get promoted or not. Reasons? Because if we don't get promoted he will have to take the safety net of getting the season ticket holders in as there is no guarantee that people will turn up on the day the next season. If we do get promoted there is no certainty that we will be challenging near the top so again, you need to get a commitment from the punters. The installment plan WILL come back, not because it is the best thing to do for the fans, but because it is best business practice. Regardless of our performance this year, I think Cortese is heading for a massive fail. I predict no more than 12,000 for Dagenham and Redbridge in November for example. How many people are honestly going to stump up £25 to watch Saints against that shower of sh!te? Seriously. A few more predictions... The membership policy will have a buying reason which means you have no choice but to buy one, probably a clause on away tickets ( which generally this season will be on sale or return basis so no risk to the club) which means you HAVE to be a member to buy one. If we have a slow start and are completely off the place, our super chairman will decide to sell half-season tickets to try and recover some of the costs. The beer/food at St Marys will rise well above the rate of inflation. The club will try and squeeze money out of people left, right and centre... it seems people like Nick G are happy to let that happen. The Travel Club ( non-profit LMFAO ) prices will be significantly more... on that point whilst we are here, the club advertised the travel club as just that. Non-Profit... how come I managed to run 3 coaches up to Wembley for the JPT Final at £5 LESS per person than what they offered, AND at a profit? My prediction is that sad ****s like you will always find something to moan about, even if we win the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Regardless of exact numbers, I am willing to stick my neck out and say that they made a profit on each and every coach. As a group booking they would have got more discounts than I managed to get hold of. The Wembley parking was £60 ( which I didn't have to pay because we parked in the Green Man Pub ) and I even paid someone £50 each to look after the coaches I wasn't on. There is no way it cost the club anywhere near £25 a head to run the coaches. They were in demand, so they priced them up. Just another lie from the club. Funny that they will be running coaches to Brentford next season, a few miles from Wembley, for less than £15 again. I wonder if they might have had to pay a premium for coaches coming from outside the area? If not, the `customer charter' value is eroded further - if that was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 (edited) I wonder if they might have had to pay a premium for coaches coming from outside the area? If not, the `customer charter' value is eroded further - if that was possible. Nope, infact the 'local' coaches actually cost more than the out of area ones. One of the coaches I got was from a Southampton company and was considerably more than the coaches I hired from Vision Travel ( P*rtsmouth ) ... supply and demand, local companies bumped their prices up because they knew they could get away with it. Some people from Bournemouth also posted at the time that their coach cost about £10 a head. The further away from Soton the coaches were from, the cheaper they were. There is absolutely no way that their coaches won't run at anything less than a significant profit, in direct contradiction to the supporters charter. Edited 21 June, 2010 by StuRomseySaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Can I just make a suggestion? It is obvious that the Club are not going to back down over this, surely banging on and on about it is going to intrench their position. Perhaps it is better to look towards next summer, perhaps arrange a meeting with NC and DL in the early part of 2011 and see if something can be thrashed out installment wise next year. Now it maybe that the Club are indeed trying to limit the amount of S/T's, but if gates are down (as most of the pro installment people believe they will be), the pro installment people's hand will be stronger. I just feel that if you back the Club into a corner, they will never back down and you'll never get your installment plan back. By taking the heat out of the situation for a few months, they may see the error of their ways, and agree to Stu's plans for next season. Dear "Rupert" You don't drop an argument because the other side won't talk, you keep on at them until they do. Cortese has misread the British psyche. He has made SFC 1000% Business, and 100% NO contact with his "Customers" THAT is wrong. We are still SUPPORTERS, and we DO deserve RESPECT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Nope, infact the 'local' coaches actually cost more than the out of area ones. One of the coaches I got was from a Southampton company and was considerably more than the coaches I hired from Vision Travel ( P*rtsmouth ) ... supply and demand, local companies bumped their prices up because they knew they could get away with it. Some people from Bournemouth also posted at the time that their coach cost about £10 a head. The further away from Soton the coaches were from, the cheaper they were. There is absolutely no way that their coaches won't run at anything less than a significant profit, in direct contradiction to the supporters charter. The one caveat I'd add with that is that the club has (or had, no idea what the deal is for the coming season) a contract with Avensis to provide the coaches for the club for the whole season. As a result, I think it would have been Avensis operating the third-party coaches on a sub-contract basis, rather than the club going direct to those companies. Therefore, it's entirely possible that Avensis saw an opportunity to screw the club (and, by definition, the fans) for a bit of extra cash, as they would have wanted to make a markup on each of the sub-contracted coaches as well as their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 The one caveat I'd add with that is that the club has (or had, no idea what the deal is for the coming season) a contract with Avensis to provide the coaches for the club for the whole season. As a result, I think it would have been Avensis operating the third-party coaches on a sub-contract basis, rather than the club going direct to those companies. Therefore, it's entirely possible that Avensis saw an opportunity to screw the club (and, by definition, the fans) for a bit of extra cash, as they would have wanted to make a markup on each of the sub-contracted coaches as well as their own. May I add that the coach operators knew that the coaches would be in short supply and lift their rates. I do agree though that the club may have got a profit. They are a business and so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Dear "Rupert" You don't drop an argument because the other side won't talk, you keep on at them until they do. Cortese has misread the British psyche. He has made SFC 1000% Business, and 100% NO contact with his "Customers" THAT is wrong. We are still SUPPORTERS, and we DO deserve RESPECT I am glad some people are starting to realise what is now happening at the club. It's not just about the season tickets, it's the whole situation in general and how Cortese thinks the club should be run... which is 100% business and zero percent communication with the fans, which are no longer even slightly important to the club, if they were then... Cortese quite clearly believes the fans deserve no respect, and believes he will still get fans through the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 I do agree though that the club may have got a profit. They are a business and so why not? Because they advertised The Travel Club at providing coaches at no profit. Both on the advertising for the coaches and on the Supporters Charter ( lol ) Steve could be right and Avensis may indeed have sub-contracted the other coaches in. But £25 a head is £1325 - 2 of my coaches cost £580... that's a massive difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 Because they advertised The Travel Club at providing coaches at no profit. Both on the advertising for the coaches and on the Supporters Charter ( lol ) Steve could be right and Avensis may indeed have sub-contracted the other coaches in. But £25 a head is £1325 - 2 of my coaches cost £580... that's a massive difference. You are right, I mentioned the fans charter some time ago. The whole JPT thing was a rip off, charging a booking fee per ticket was the worst IMO.....of course our own fans were doing the same Silverspoon lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 But surely, with regard to the JPT, the club was only doing what anyone else would do and that is to trade on a success and make some more money? Money that could be spent on better players to ensure more success. You could argue that selling Cup Final scarves, hats, flags etc is ripping people off and milking the occaission. I don`t quite see the diference. Like it or not we are "customers" as well as supporters. Football (even Saints) is a multi-million pound business and any business has customers by definition. I would agree that they have not handled the whole ST/installment thing particularly well, but I want a successful club and one that flourishes. We want to see better players see us climb back to the PL, but I don`t want us to end up like the shower down the road. If by finding a few extra quid I can go and watch a winning team instead of a struggling one, my choice is to pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 At the end of the day we now have a club to support that is on the up and has a lot of potential (attracting a lot of players who want to play in the Prem despite us currently being L1) and that comes at a price. For example, 'fans' of the Prem top 4 pay a much greater price for supporting them than we do with Saints. The further up the football pyramid you go, the more expensive supporting that club becomes, get used to it! As supporters of a football club we do not have a given right for everything to be cheap. You just cant please some people. They moaned about Lowe, they moan at the current owners who have given us the brightest future we could have dreamed off and NOW they moan about the first trophy we have won in 34 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Benson Phillips Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 I never use the travel club. :-() Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuRomseySaint Posted 21 June, 2010 Author Share Posted 21 June, 2010 But surely, with regard to the JPT, the club was only doing what anyone else would do and that is to trade on a success and make some more money? Money that could be spent on better players to ensure more success. You could argue that selling Cup Final scarves, hats, flags etc is ripping people off and milking the occaission. I don`t quite see the diference. Like it or not we are "customers" as well as supporters. Football (even Saints) is a multi-million pound business and any business has customers by definition. I would agree that they have not handled the whole ST/installment thing particularly well, but I want a successful club and one that flourishes. We want to see better players see us climb back to the PL, but I don`t want us to end up like the shower down the road. If by finding a few extra quid I can go and watch a winning team instead of a struggling one, my choice is to pay it. If the club want to make a profit then fair enough, but to state in the supporters charter and on the Travel Club website that coaches are ran at cost price and no profit to the club when that almost certainly is not the case, is morally wrong and is miss-selling and misleading the 'customer' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 At the end of the day we now have a club to support that is on the up and has a lot of potential (attracting a lot of players who want to play in the Prem despite us currently being L1) and that comes at a price. For example, 'fans' of the Prem top 4 pay a much greater price for supporting them than we do with Saints. The further up the football pyramid you go, the more expensive supporting that club becomes, get used to it! As supporters of a football club we do not have a given right for everything to be cheap. You just cant please some people. They moaned about Lowe, they moan at the current owners who have given us the brightest future we could have dreamed off and NOW they moan about the first trophy we have won in 34 years! Of course I cannot speak for all, but I myself am NOT concerned with the COST of a ST, as I fully realise that success costs money My sole grouse is simply that the means by which SOME Fans pay, ie Instalments ,was taken away, without ANY advance notice. THAT was BAD Business Mr Cortese, it's NOT about the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 21 June, 2010 Share Posted 21 June, 2010 But surely, with regard to the JPT, the club was only doing what anyone else would do and that is to trade on a success and make some more money? Money that could be spent on better players to ensure more success. You could argue that selling Cup Final scarves, hats, flags etc is ripping people off and milking the occaission. I don`t quite see the diference. Like it or not we are "customers" as well as supporters. Football (even Saints) is a multi-million pound business and any business has customers by definition. I would agree that they have not handled the whole ST/installment thing particularly well, but I want a successful club and one that flourishes. We want to see better players see us climb back to the PL, but I don`t want us to end up like the shower down the road. If by finding a few extra quid I can go and watch a winning team instead of a struggling one, my choice is to pay it. Not if the club produce a Supporters' Charter which is very specific in outlining that: Travel is provided for home supporters to travel to away games. All travel is made available at cost price with no profit to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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