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Thedelldays

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By Jove....I've worked out what the problem is here.

 

It's the mis-labelling of the student fees as "debt".

 

The student fees aren't 'debt' in the true sense of the word. It's effectively a future monthly payment to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. In other words it's a relatively small amount of additional tax wrapped up indifferent words.

 

I know that I will have to pay the exchequer around £2,000 a month for the next 25 years or so. Does that make me in debt by £50,000 as of today? Using the same logic as the anti fees brigade, the answer is yes.

 

Everyone: take a step back for a moment and look at the fees in a new light - they are simply an extension to your monthly/annual/lifetime tax commitments. And those who are better off tend to pay more tax.

 

It all seems pretty logical to me. It's the mis-use of the word 'debt' that is confusing people...

 

Strewth, I'm too profound for my own good sometimes.... ;-)

 

Actually, make that 12 x £50,000 in debt - forgot it was a monthly tax bill! So I'm over half a million in 'debt' to the country as things stand! :-)

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im all for degrees in medicine, engineering etc to be paid for.....but media studies, david beckham studies and the like..??

nah...

 

lol at the students shouting "tory scum"...do they not realise labour would have done the same..?

 

A lot of them are probably too young to remember when Labour introduced them at 3 grand a year

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extreme violence towards coppers..

 

breeze block thrown at police from high buildings...

pretty severe really

 

edit - now protesters smashing up the treasury..

 

what a great protest.....fuking morons

 

Bless them,

 

They really are proving what a great bunch of people they are.

 

Also have you heard half of the interviews from the students ??

 

'Its imparrin' are humin rites innit'

 

Hardly sound like future graduates to me.

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Well i think the students were right to stand up for what they believe in.Shame the condem government has shafted them and future generations.Lets hope there are more demos against this governments loopy policy of cuts and sackings.

 

Bet the last Labour crew are laughing, they cause all these issues and when the coalition attempts the clean them up they get slammed for it.

 

FWIW i don't get what the big issue is, its not like they have to pay the money up front nor in many circumstances pay off the balance.

 

I hate the fact that so many of us believe the world owes us a living.

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I do laugh..

 

we think it is our god given right to abuse the police..throw breeze blocks at them..throw snooker balls at them, throw fireworks at them..shoot projectiles at them...and them claim police brutality when get a whack with a baton..

 

I am amazed how liberal our police are in the face of such provocation today

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I hope they go home now the vote has been passed. They could get a job in McDonalds or something. They can start at the bottom and work their way up to become a manager of their own shop within a few years.

 

They'll have no debt to pay and what a future!!! Within a few years they could be managing an whole area and have over 28 days annual leave and free Big Mac meals for their family.

 

Choice - 21k debt, pic of you in a cap and gown with a pointless certificate [ok, it proves that you can learn, albeit in most cases though, nothing worthwhile] or running a McDonalds, no debt and free meals?

 

My mate started sweeping the floor in 99p stores, two years later he was promoted to working on the tills and his manager says if he carries on developing at such a rate then there is every chance that he could get promoted to the early morning/late night roster.

 

This in itself shows that this isn't the end for students, there are always opportunities to develop your skills, you've just got to work at it.

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I hope they go home now the vote has been passed. They could get a job in McDonalds or something. They can start at the bottom and work their way up to become a manager of their own shop within a few years.

 

They'll have no debt to pay and what a future!!! Within a few years they could be managing an whole area and have over 28 days annual leave and free Big Mac meals for their family.

 

Choice - 21k debt, pic of you in a cap and gown with a pointless certificate [ok, it proves that you can learn, albeit in most cases though, nothing worthwhile] or running a McDonalds, no debt and free meals?

 

My mate started sweeping the floor in 99p stores, two years later he was promoted to working on the tills and his manager says if he carries on developing at such a rate then there is every chance that he could get promoted to the early morning/late night roster.

 

This in itself shows that this isn't the end for students, there are always opportunities to develop your skills, you've just got to work at it.

 

That's IT? That's the choice??? Albania here we come.

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Bet the last Labour crew are laughing, they cause all these issues and when the coalition attempts the clean them up they get slammed for it.

 

FWIW i don't get what the big issue is, its not like they have to pay the money up front nor in many circumstances pay off the balance.

 

I hate the fact that so many of us believe the world owes us a living.

I dont think anyone thinks they are owed a living,but surely our youth is allowed to have access to higher edcucation,without having a lifetime of debt?Isnt this what the ministers that serve in the government already had?What the condems have voted for,will result in a lot less students from average backgrounds,while students from rich families having more choice.

As for blaming Labour for this mess,i seem to remember it was caused by greedy bankers and a few Americans defaulting on their mortgages.

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Are you sure Mikey?

 

It seems to me that the past three demonstrations - is that all of them? - have definitely involved thuggish behaviour! First there was the attempted murder from the fire extinguisher thrower, that would be classed as thuggish wouldn't it? That one also included the unlawful entry of a building, which then got 'trashed' and lots of the furniture set on fire, surely that's bordering on thuggish isn't it? Then the next demonstration involved the students destroying a police van, setting off the fire extinguishers, stealing all the equipment from inside it - are we getting close to thuggish yet? Then there's todays 'demonstration' which according to the pictures being shown on Sky news appear to be pretty thuggish to me.

 

Perhaps someone has re-drawn the boundaries on what is and isn't thuggish behaviour and not told me - presumably they haven't told the judges sitting on the various 'football violence' cases either, as I saw lots of fence shaking today on the news, which is apperently - according to the judge - very thuggish behaviour.

 

Possibly a poor choice of language on my part there, I will change that to 'pointless violence'. The EDL have no political agenda really, except pointless racially aggravated violence (imo). The students are protesting against a political change, a political cause. I think the violence of the protests is slightly OTT, but a hell of a lot of people are very p!ssed off about the proposed (now actual) changes. I'm not using anger to justify the violence, people have got hurt, but people inevitably do stupid things when they get caught up in an angry mob.

 

I'll say again, I don't know a single student who was anything but peaceful at the protests across the country. You'll invariably see people smashing up buildings and throwing missiles, but what you won't see on the news is the tens of thousands who are protesting peacefully and properly.

Edited by SuperMikey
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Glad it has passed. It's a good proposal for Britain and perfectly fair.

 

Waaaay back in this thread someone was quoting potential students from low income families saying they were put off doing a course by the high levels of debt. GOOD! They can f**k off and not do the course. Not being able to pay for uni is one thing but not being WILLING to pay for it is completely different. If you don't have the belief to see a course through and have a sound plan for getting a job on the end of it, you should not being going to uni.

 

This is what a uni student should be:

"I want to become a XXXXX For this I will need a degree in XXXXX I'm not able to pay for this course, but when I have completed it and got a job and CAN afford it, I intend to repay the tax payer in full".

 

This is what a student should not be:

"I've just left school and I was never that good and didn't really get decent grades. I don't really know what I want to do as a career yet, but I kinda like doing XXXXX and want the life experience of going to uni. I'm not so sure I want to do XXXX any more because the new tuition fees mean I will have to repay all the costs when I get a job."

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Possibly a poor choice of language on my part there, I will change that to 'pointless violence'. The EDL have no political agenda really, except pointless racially aggravated violence (imo). The students are protesting against a constitutional change, a political cause. I think the violence of the protests is slightly OTT, but a hell of a lot of people are very p!ssed off about the proposed (now actual) changes. I'm not using anger to justify the violence, people have got hurt, but people inevitably do stupid things when they get caught up in an angry mob.

 

I'll say again, I don't know a single student who was anything but peaceful at the protests across the country. You'll invariably see people smashing up buildings and throwing missiles, but what you won't see on the news is the tens of thousands who are protesting peacefully and properly.

 

Eh? No they're not. I take it the world has appointed you to decide what are valid causes for violent protests and which aren't?

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Ok, why go to university? For some professions its a necessity - doctors engineers vets etc. Others for academia or research. Beyond that, you can rise in any profession through graft. Providing some one is bright and determined there is nothing to stop them acheiving what they waant. I didn't go to uni but through a lot of graft I qualified as an accountant and have done well. Has not having a degree hurt me?, well it closed a few job doors in my earlier career, but in the long term it certainly hasn't held me back.

True i missed out on the life experience, and sometimes I regret that, but not for too long.

 

It frustrates me when politians say that more and more people need a university education, why? As my dear gran used to say, the cream always rises to the top. If you work hard and you are bright / savvy / creative and driven you will invariably do well.

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Having watched videos of the protests and spoken to a few mates that were there, the police were inciting violence. Charging into a crowd with police horses? F*cking moronic police tactics.

 

So on the one had there are students breaking into buildings, throwing rocks, snooker balls and feck knows what else. However you are outraged at the Police for running towards them. :? If you play with feathers, you get your arsed tickled. Anyone who is enough of a tool to start a fight with a bunch of riot police deserves all they get.

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I do laugh..

 

we think it is our god given right to abuse the police..throw breeze blocks at them..throw snooker balls at them, throw fireworks at them..shoot projectiles at them...and them claim police brutality when get a whack with a baton..

 

I am amazed how liberal our police are in the face of such provocation today

 

It's been that way since 1829.

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Fair play to them, about time someone got off their arse and protested in this way, rather than just moaning. Power to the people!!

 

If we don't take action now, we settle for nothing later!!

 

A very unhappy nation. It is not just about fees, it is the country showing they are not happy about being taken for mugs!!

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Having watched videos of the protests and spoken to a few mates that were there, the police were inciting violence. Charging into a crowd with police horses? F*cking moronic police tactics.

 

Your mates would say that though wouldn't they? From what I've seen the police have held back and remained calm. If I was a copper I'd have kicked seven shades of **** out of these student rioters by now.

 

These rioters are the future of our country. Makes you wonder where this country is heading doesn't it.

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These rioters are the future of our country. Makes you wonder where this country is heading doesn't it.

 

Whilst I don't agree with the policy that has just been passed I think the student protests are way way over the top.

 

I think alot of people think it's unjust that the goverment appears to tread on eggshells around the banks but don't think twice about a 200% odd increase in taxing education.

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The police need to be given permision to disperse crowds with guns. If a few students got shot they'd soon think twice. I'm not suggesting they should be shot in the head or chest, just their legs.

 

Good idea.We dont want anyone expressing an opinion in a supposedly free country.

Lets just go to work,then sit quietly in our homes while the government totally ruin our lifes.

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Fair play to them, about time someone got off their arse and protested in this way, rather than just moaning. Power to the people!!

 

If we don't take action now, we settle for nothing later!!

 

A very unhappy nation. It is not just about fees, it is the country showing they are not happy about being taken for mugs!!

 

How about the rest of the country go and protest about the students who've eaten away at our tax money for so many years?

 

Why don't we all go round the local student houses, smash in their windows, set fire to their possessions and eat all their pot noodles? If they noticed the carnage that was left behind, do you think they would just shrug their shoulders and say 'hey ho, it was a protest, so anything's allowed'?

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Good idea.We dont want anyone expressing an opinion in a supposedly free country.

Lets just go to work,then sit quietly in our homes while the government totally ruin our lifes.

 

of course they're allowed to express their opinion - were not in North Korea.

 

but they're not allowed to cause violence / criminal damage.

 

there are ways and means - thats what general elections are for. WE voted the government in - as did, i'd say 50%+ of the people marching / protesting / rioting

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Don't forget this:

 

3ytv8u5

 

Some people are just totally brain dead. Whatever the rights and wrongs of fees and loans its a political decision made by elected representatives - and a decision that dozy cow has a right to protest about. If it wasnt for the people whose memorial she is attacking - she'd be in Auschwitz as a political prisoner.

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The riot police were out of order. They charged an area near a fence where people were escaping the kettle but most people were just standing, picking off some people climbing over but others who were just standing there and then batoning them. They then proceeded to bring in horses into an effective dead end.

 

There was also an oldish man who asked to leave if he could because he had a heart condition. They asked what? He explained what it was fully and then they said no and started pushing and shoving him back into the area. This set many people off. A lot of bad policing today. However, I also saw examples of good policing.

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Some people are just totally brain dead. Whatever the rights and wrongs of fees and loans its a political decision made by elected representatives - and a decision that dozy cow has a right to protest about. If it wasnt for the people whose memorial she is attacking - she'd be in Auschwitz as a political prisoner.

 

I thought it was a bloke!

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