How long does white South Africa have?

[pap]

More disturbing news from South Africa in today's Mail (I know, I know). This was a subject that was briefly discussed when St Chalet announced that he may be moving to South Africa, and I'd already seen a few things about murder running amok in the Rainbow Nation.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351339/Mandelas-passing-looming-threat-race-war-South-Africas-whites-widow-mourns-latest-murdered-white-farmer-chilling-dispatch-nation-holding-breath.html#ixzz2XbqM9As7

 

The Mail article reckons that Mandela's presence as a figure has held a lot of people back, and that new political parties emerging after this death might not have reconciliation at the top of their policy agenda. Interesting subject because of the history; genuinely shocking reports of children being raped or murdered in front of their parents. Apparently, being a white South African farmer is the most dangerous job in the world.

 

Very much interested in the accounts of those with personal experience of contemporary life in SA. Is the picture as bleak as the one the Daily Mail paints? (hey, it is the Daily Mail). Other than that, very much a free-for-all. Where is South Africa headed post-Mandela, and do white people have a future in it?

[Batman]

I know a few south africans (white) and the stories they tell would suggest the Mail is quite reserved in its reporting

[Suomi Saint]

The answer is not long - which is why white South Africans have been leaving for many years. Zimbabwe on a grander scale.

[Viking Warrior]

Pap this is not a new concept murder has been rife in South Africa for twenty odd years . Some army medic friends went out on a tour of duty in the early 90's they were horrified on what they were seeing . Many parts of South Africa near Cape Town were no go areas . If you strayed into these areas accidentally and you were white then you were not coming out alive . And this could be taking the wrong road at certain crossroads . True story . Not pleasant at all

[Viking Warrior]

Pap I think they mail has over egged the situation but it is not a safe country there is tribal conflict in the Soweto areas and then there is the issue of black on white . I only can refer to what was happening in the early nineties so have no up to date knowledge on the situation there now

[Tamesaint]

Been there twice on holiday. Its a grand place .Stayed away from Joburg and areas that seemed dodgy & had a great time. Never felt threatened. Magnificent beaches. Good cost of living.

[Turkish]

More disturbing news from South Africa in today's Mail (I know, I know). This was a subject that was briefly discussed when St Chalet announced that he may be moving to South Africa, and I'd already seen a few things about murder running amok in the Rainbow Nation.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351339/Mandelas-passing-looming-threat-race-war-South-Africas-whites-widow-mourns-latest-murdered-white-farmer-chilling-dispatch-nation-holding-breath.html#ixzz2XbqM9As7

 

The Mail article reckons that Mandela's presence as a figure has held a lot of people back, and that new political parties emerging after this death might not have reconciliation at the top of their policy agenda. Interesting subject because of the history; genuinely shocking reports of children being raped or murdered in front of their parents. Apparently, being a white South African farmer is the most dangerous job in the world.

 

Very much interested in the accounts of those with personal experience of contemporary life in SA. Is the picture as bleak as the one the Daily Mail paints? (hey, it is the Daily Mail). Other than that, very much a free-for-all. Where is South Africa headed post-Mandela, and do white people have a future in it?

 

South Africa is still run by white pappy and they are happy, all that you've just posted is black propaganda and a big conspiracy theory. Chill out, it's All good over there.

[Viking Warrior]

South Africa is like Northern Ireland . There are places you just don't venture in to but majority of Northern Ireland s excellent to visit as is South Africa

[Saint in Paradise]

I hope that I am wrong but I wonder if SA will also turn against the Indians and other non-black people

not just the whites. Mind as Viking Warrior says whites have been murdered for years although to be fair

being black and in the wrong place and being a member of the wrong tribe can be fatal as well.

I would feel much safer in the PRK than SA.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

PAP everybody thinks Mandela is innocent in this. He's not. The word Apartheid was made up by ANC, his ANC. He and others were jailed not for being black, but for terrorism. He was party to bomb that killed woman and children in the 60's. What people don't know is the ANC is a communist party, with far left communist views. Mandela has been photographed at meetings giving the clenched fist salute, and joining in songs, which call for the killing of the boare(whites). But the media don't show this, as it would show how they were duped for years, by this so called poor, black man. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe, but in a far BIGGER way. And I worry about the family that I still have there. And they can trace they're family back to the original settlers, before Zulu's and Xhosa's were in SA. It was just Hottentots then.

[Saint in Paradise]

South Africa is still run by white pappy and they are happy, all that you've just posted is black propaganda and a big conspiracy theory. Chill out, it's All good over there.

 

:facepalm: None as blind as them that wants to be.

[View From The Top]

PAP everybody thinks Mandela is innocent in this. He's not. The word Apartheid was made up by ANC, his ANC. He and others were jailed not for being black, but for terrorism. He was party to bomb that killed woman and children in the 60's. What people don't know is the ANC is a communist party, with far left communist views. Mandela has been photographed at meetings giving the clenched fist salute, and joining in songs, which call for the killing of the boare(whites). But the media don't show this, as it would show how they were duped for years, by this so called poor, black man. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe, but in a far BIGGER way. And I worry about the family that I still have there. And they can trace they're family back to the original settlers, before Zulu's and Xhosa's were in SA. It was just Hottentots then.

 

If only those whites had been left alone to run the place.

[shurlock]

Its still a cappuccino economy -white cream over a large black mass, with a bit of chocolate sprinkled on top.

[View From The Top]

Its still a cappuccino economy -white cream over a large black mass, with a bit of chocolate sprinkled on top.

 

I like that.

[JackFrost]

PAP everybody thinks Mandela is innocent in this. He's not. The word Apartheid was made up by ANC, his ANC. He and others were jailed not for being black, but for terrorism. He was party to bomb that killed woman and children in the 60's. What people don't know is the ANC is a communist party, with far left communist views. Mandela has been photographed at meetings giving the clenched fist salute, and joining in songs, which call for the killing of the boare(whites). But the media don't show this, as it would show how they were duped for years, by this so called poor, black man. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe, but in a far BIGGER way. And I worry about the family that I still have there. And they can trace they're family back to the original settlers, before Zulu's and Xhosa's were in SA. It was just Hottentots then.

 

Yep,

 

The ANC were also heavily financed by Colonel Gaddafi for a very long time (I think he was one of their biggest donors), and Amnesty International refused to support Mandela when he was in prison, due to his refusal to renounce violence. The ANC's bombings were killing innocent people even as recently as the late '80s.

 

Mandela isn't exactly the shining light that the media portray him to be.

[Viking Warrior]

. Good post soton's east side . I was going to post something about mandela's past but thought the time was not rights.

Mandela is not a shining light a bit like Martin McGuinness and Adams in Northern Ireland oh and paisley to balance the argument

[alpine_saint]

Seems Eugene Terreblanche had a point or two...

[Ludwig]

Seems Eugene Terreblanche had a point or two...

 

would you care to elaborate on that?

[Verbal]

PAP everybody thinks Mandela is innocent in this. He's not. The word Apartheid was made up by ANC, his ANC. He and others were jailed not for being black, but for terrorism. He was party to bomb that killed woman and children in the 60's. What people don't know is the ANC is a communist party, with far left communist views. Mandela has been photographed at meetings giving the clenched fist salute, and joining in songs, which call for the killing of the boare(whites). But the media don't show this, as it would show how they were duped for years, by this so called poor, black man. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe, but in a far BIGGER way. And I worry about the family that I still have there. And they can trace they're family back to the original settlers, before Zulu's and Xhosa's were in SA. It was just Hottentots then.

 

Where on earth did you get the idea that 'apartheid' was a word made up by the ANC? I can only find references to that on racist websites like Stormfront. It's an Afrikaans word meaning 'separate-ness' and enshrined (if that's the word) in South African law in 1948.

 

As for Mandela, he was imprisoned as a leading member of the ANC, and gave up the unarmed struggle against the Whites-only regime immediately after the Sharpeville massacre, in which white police shot dead 69 blacks and injured scores more. He was sentenced initially for organising a strike and leaving the country without travel documents. While in prison, he was then charged, two years later, with four counts of sabotage of government targets.

 

Blacks had been disenfranchised, evicted from their land and dumped into barren 'bantustans', their children denied access to decent education or health care, and left with land too poor to support sustainable agriculture. Once thriving centres of modern black culture like Sophiaville were wiped out. Pacifist opponents had already been imprisoned and tortured. The regime had been declared illegal by the international community and subject to UN sanctions.

 

I'm curious as to what you think the alternative was to armed struggle against a violently racist regime? If you were black under apartheid, had had your friends shot, imprisoned and killed, and your family had been evicted from their legally held home and chucked into the scorched-earth bantustans, what would you do? Hold up a placard asking politely if the regime wouldn't mind desisting, thank you so much?

[Gemmel]

Where on earth did you get the idea that 'apartheid' was a word made up by the ANC? I can only find references to that on racist websites like Stormfront. It's an Afrikaans word meaning 'separate-ness' and enshrined (if that's the word) in South African law in 1948.

 

As for Mandela, he was imprisoned as a leading member of the ANC, and gave up the unarmed struggle against the Whites-only regime immediately after the Sharpeville massacre, in which white police shot dead 69 blacks and injured scores more. He was sentenced initially for organising a strike and leaving the country without travel documents. While in prison, he was then charged, two years later, with four counts of sabotage of government targets.

 

Blacks had been disenfranchised, evicted from their land and dumped into barren 'bantustans', their children denied access to decent education or health care, and left with land too poor to support sustainable agriculture. Once thriving centres of modern black culture like Sophiaville were wiped out. Pacifist opponents had already been imprisoned and tortured. The regime had been declared illegal by the international community and subject to UN sanctions.

 

I'm curious as to what you think the alternative was to armed struggle against a violently racist regime? If you were black under apartheid, had had your friends shot, imprisoned and killed, and your family had been evicted from their legally held home and chucked into the scorched-earth bantustans, what would you do? Hold up a placard asking politely if the regime wouldn't mind desisting, thank you so much?

 

I was sent to private school in the 80's and was taught that Nelson Mandella was a terrorist.

 

Obviously wrong, but that was the party line.

[aintforever]

Yep,

 

The ANC were also heavily financed by Colonel Gaddafi for a very long time (I think he was one of their biggest donors), and Amnesty International refused to support Mandela when he was in prison, due to his refusal to renounce violence. The ANC's bombings were killing innocent people even as recently as the late '80s.

 

Mandela isn't exactly the shining light that the media portray him to be.

 

Sometimes people are justified in using violence.

[dinger]

Seems Eugene Terreblanche had a point or two...

 

One in his pants, one on his head.

[Jonnyboy]

 

Nelson Mandela will die soon. Today, tomorrow, this week, next week. It won't be long. Remember this, he out-lived Thatcher. When he does die, and David Cameron jumps on the Mandela bandwagon, remember that in 1985 he was a top member of the Federation of Conservative Students, which produced the "Hang Mandela" posters. In 1989, Cameron worked in the Tory Policy Unit at Central Office and went on an anti-sanctions fact-finding mission to South Africa with a pro-apartheid lobby firm sponsored by PW Botha. Remember this when he tells the world he was inspired by Madiba.

[Ohio Saint]

There are points to be made about Mandela both good and bad.

History and the media will make hay with the good, and largely forget about the bad....It's simply what we do as a race. Sometimes we do the same thing in a mirror image with the villains.

 

It's the future that matters. I just hope they get it right, but I doubt it.

[Window Cleaner]

There are points to be made about Mandela both good and bad.

History and the media will make hay with the good, and largely forget about the bad....It's simply what we do as a race. Sometimes we do the same thing in a mirror image with the villains.

 

It's the future that matters. I just hope they get it right, but I doubt it.

 

Apparently according to tribal beliefs Mandela can't die because his soul is not at peace because his defunct children aren't buried in some tribal sacred place....yeah right,

Edited 30 June, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Foxy]

Some interestingly one eyed views all round here. Starting with the OP lets remember that the article come from the Daily Mail and is based around interviews in the Afrikaaner separatist bubble that is Kleinfontein.

 

Speaking as someone whose parents live half the year just outside Cape Town and who has made perhaps 50 business and holiday trips to Cape Town and Joburg in the past ten years I'm struggling to identify with this vision of besieged whites huddling in their fortified compounds while, outside, the AK47 blacks rampage around in a post apocalyptic orgy of rape, murder and (for all I know) queue jumping. It just isn't that way.

 

Sadly South Africa does have a lamentable rate of violent crime, social imbalance. endemic AIDS and all the rest of it. But unsurprisingly in a wildly unequal society this tends to be found in the most disadvantaged communities. And they ain't the ones populated by Europeans.

 

I've, as mentioned, spent a lot of time down there and, whether in Sandton or Soweto, Newlands or Nyanga never received anything but the warmest welcome or felt remotely unsafe. The only crime I, or my family have experienced there was when I was dumb enough to leave my mobile in my shoe on the beach and go swimming and to get a beer. I came back and it was gone. Tell me that wouldn't have happened in Weymouth or Bournemouth.

 

I've found South Africa, for the most part, a country embracing its new identity. Go to a bar in Camps Bay, the V&A or Sandton and you'll see young people of every background relaxing, comfortable in their mixed groups.

 

This is all fact based on my own observations. Now, I suspect that if you move into less fortunate corners of ZA society - whites whose previously privileged position, artificially maintained under the old regime, or blacks whose poverty and lack of access to education, healthcare and the means to secure these things may well find it easy to see the New South Africa as being for the advantage of a fortunate few, very possibly those who don't look like they do. In such circumstances there is always going to be an audience for the views of extremists and bigots, be they Terreblanche, Julius Malema or Nick Griffin, but this isn't the majority view down there.

 

And even if there was a big groundswell of political support for an anti-white message South Africa just isn't like Zimbabwe. The whites account for about a quarter of the population and by and large control the economy - unlike Zim where a 2% minority, mostly farmers. Could be marginalised.

 

So to answer the question, no, I don't see an end to White South Africa, whatever that is. With the passing of Mandela we will see the loss of. Totemic leader and considerable moral authority. It'll feel odd not to know the old man is there. But life will go on.

 

Regarding the man himself, it's dead easy to over simplify. He was a huge figure and revolutionary leader who overcame one of the great social and political injustices of our era, and managed to avoid a bloodbath in the aftermath. Against that it does have to be remembered that it was Mandela who, in face of opposition from other major figures in the ANC, took the decision to make the struggle an armed one.

 

Was this decision justified? Does the end warrant the means? Is it acceptable to take arms against tyranny?

 

For me Mandela is one of the great heroes of our times, his cause just, his victory one to inspire us all. That doesn't mean that it is wrong to question his ideas and actions. But on the whole you only need to compare what he leaves behind to what he fought to change to see that what he (and others) fought for made for a better, if imperfect, South Africa.

[Gemmel]

For me Mandela is one of the great heroes of our times, his cause just, his victory one to inspire us all. That doesn't mean that it is wrong to question his ideas and actions. But on the whole you only need to compare what he leaves behind to what he fought to change to see that what he (and others) fought for made for a better, if imperfect, South Africa.

 

Brilliantly put

[JackFrost]

Sometimes people are justified in using violence.

 

Indeed,

 

but I wouldn't call founding and supporting a organisation that bombed shopping centres/magistrates courts/other public places which resulted in innocent civilians being killed/injured 'justifiable'. They were considered to be a terrorist organisation internationally, not just by the South African regime.

 

Mandela did a lot of good things through diplomacy in his later life and that's putting it very mildly, but he's said himself he should not be put on a pedestal because of his previous wrongdoings.

[alpine_saint]

would you care to elaborate on that?

 

Surely.

 

He felt there was a need for white Afrikaaners to violently defend their homes and way of life, to the point of pre-emptive action. Not interested or in agreement with all the racial b*ll*cks he spouted.

 

No doubt you will try to infer a racist message behind my comment.

[aintforever]

Indeed,

 

but I wouldn't call founding and supporting a organisation that bombed shopping centres/magistrates courts/other public places which resulted in innocent civilians being killed/injured 'justifiable'. They were considered to be a terrorist organisation internationally, not just by the South African regime.

 

Mandela did a lot of good things through diplomacy in his later life and that's putting it very mildly, but he's said himself he should not be put on a pedestal because of his previous wrongdoings.

 

I disagree about killing being justifiable, sometimes it needs to be done to force change. But that's just my opinion.

[dinger]

No doubt you will try to infer a racist message behind my comment.

 

No doubt if you didn't want to be misinterpreted so as to then get all indignant and self-righteous, you'd have taken the time to explain yourself in the first place, rather than just lauding one of the most hated racists of the age. No doubt you'll pretend that's not what you've done.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

If only those whites had been left alone to run the place.

No one said the whites should still be running it you t@t...

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Where on earth did you get the idea that 'apartheid' was a word made up by the ANC? I can only find references to that on racist websites like Stormfront. It's an Afrikaans word meaning 'separate-ness' and enshrined (if that's the word) in South African law in 1948.

 

As for Mandela, he was imprisoned as a leading member of the ANC, and gave up the unarmed struggle against the Whites-only regime immediately after the Sharpeville massacre, in which white police shot dead 69 blacks and injured scores more. He was sentenced initially for organising a strike and leaving the country without travel documents. While in prison, he was then charged, two years later, with four counts of sabotage of government targets.

 

Blacks had been disenfranchised, evicted from their land and dumped into barren 'bantustans', their children denied access to decent education or health care, and left with land too poor to support sustainable agriculture. Once thriving centres of modern black culture like Sophiaville were wiped out. Pacifist opponents had already been imprisoned and tortured. The regime had been declared illegal by the international community and subject to UN sanctions.

 

I'm curious as to what you think the alternative was to armed struggle against a violently racist regime? If you were black under apartheid, had had your friends shot, imprisoned and killed, and your family had been evicted from their legally held home and chucked into the scorched-earth bantustans, what would you do? Hold up a placard asking politely if the regime wouldn't mind desisting, thank you so much?

Have you lived there!!!!! If not dig a little deeper. Edited 30 June, 2013 by SOTONS EAST SIDE

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

PAP everybody thinks Mandela is innocent in this. He's not. The word Apartheid was made up by ANC, his ANC. He and others were jailed not for being black, but for terrorism. He was party to bomb that killed woman and children in the 60's. What people don't know is the ANC is a communist party, with far left communist views. Mandela has been photographed at meetings giving the clenched fist salute, and joining in songs, which call for the killing of the boare(whites). But the media don't show this, as it would show how they were duped for years, by this so called poor, black man. South Africa is going the way of Zimbabwe, but in a far BIGGER way. And I worry about the family that I still have there. And they can trace they're family back to the original settlers, before Zulu's and Xhosa's were in SA. It was just Hottentots then.

 

Where the **** did you lift this gash analysis from? Just what is your point about the term "Apartheid" and the ANC? Are you honestly trying to imply some sort of ANC complicity in it. That's how it reads. Aside from your turn of phrase being invidious it also complete ********. It's an Afikans word used as an umbrella term for a whole series of laws designed to keep races apart and keep the white man firmly on top. Find me one respectable internet source that suggests that "the word Apartheid was made up by ANC".

 

"duped for years, by this so called poor, black man" - wtf do you actually mean by this? Mandela IS black. Who said he was poor? I'm sure he was pretty poor during his 27 years locked up in prison but why should someone who has held the highest office in his country for several years and has sold hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of copies of his autobiography be poor? "Duped" - in what way duped? Are we supposed to believe he hates "whites" and wanted revenge? Surely if that WAS the case then he'd have done something about when President. The fact that people are speculating whether or not they will be problems after he dies is proof of calming presence and ability to bind a nation.

Edited 30 June, 2013 by anothersaintinsouthsea

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

Where the **** did you lift this gash analysis from? Just what is your point about the term "Apartheid" and the ANC? Are you honestly trying to imply some sort of ANC complicity in it. That's how it reads. Aside from your turn of phrase being invidious it also complete ********. It's an Afikans word used as an umbrella term for a whole series of laws designed to keep races apart and keep the white man firmly on top. Find me one respectable internet source that suggests that "the word Apartheid was made up by ANC".

 

"duped for years, by this so called poor, black man" - wtf do you actually mean by this? Mandela IS black. Who said he was poor? I'm sure he was pretty poor during his 27 years locked up in prison but why should someone who has held the highest office in his country for several years and has sold hundreds of thousands (probably millions) of copies of his autobiography be poor? "Duped" - in what way duped? Are we supposed to believe he hates "whites" and wanted revenge? Surely if that WAS the case then he'd have done something about when President. The fact that people are speculating whether or not they will be problems after he dies is proof of calming presence and ability to bind a nation.

When i say made up, i mean in the sense they used this word as a slogan for they're cause!!

[Verbal]

Have you lived there!!!!!

 

I think you meant to put a question mark on the end. In any case, no I've not lived there. Now how about you answer my question?

 

On the issue of violence, I've worked in SA with multi-ethnic crews and all reported horrific examples of violence either to themselves or members of their families. The most ironic instance was a crew member who'd worked on a film that starts with a carjacking. On his way to the airport to pick up an Oscar in LA, he was - guess what? - carjacked.

 

Which is why I regard the OP as extremely careless, to say the least. Violence has afflicted the lives of everyone there, not just whites. And it is not - for heaven's sake - "White South Africa".

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

When i say made up, i mean in the sense they used this word as a slogan for they're cause!!

 

So your point was completely irrelevant as well as misleading then.

 

Going to elaborate on why you think Mandela has "duped" everyone?

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Pap this is not a new concept murder has been rife in South Africa for twenty odd years . Some army medic friends went out on a tour of duty in the early 90's they were horrified on what they were seeing . Many parts of South Africa near Cape Town were no go areas . If you strayed into these areas accidentally and you were white then you were not coming out alive . And this could be taking the wrong road at certain crossroads . True story . Not pleasant at all

 

 

You make it sound like Crawley

[pap]

I think you meant to put a question mark on the end. In any case, no I've not lived there. Now how about you answer my question?

 

On the issue of violence, I've worked in SA with multi-ethnic crews and all reported horrific examples of violence either to themselves or members of their families. The most ironic instance was a crew member who'd worked on a film that starts with a carjacking. On his way to the airport to pick up an Oscar in LA, he was - guess what? - carjacked.

 

Which is why I regard the OP as extremely careless, to say the least. Violence has afflicted the lives of everyone there, not just whites. And it is not - for heaven's sake - "White South Africa".

 

The OP is just fine given the context. Even the term white South Africa ( small 'w', ta ) is readily understood, even if too often, outsiders tend to lump the settlers of English settlers and Afrikaaners into one.

 

Start a thread of your own, Verbal. The world is your oyster. Prove to me that you're not just a guest star in the threads of others. Then we can talk about relative extremes of care in OPs.

[Batman]

I think you meant to put a question mark on the end. In any case, no I've not lived there. Now how about you answer my question?

 

On the issue of violence, I've worked in SA with multi-ethnic crews and all reported horrific examples of violence either to themselves or members of their families. The most ironic instance was a crew member who'd worked on a film that starts with a carjacking. On his way to the airport to pick up an Oscar in LA, he was - guess what? - carjacked.

 

Which is why I regard the OP as extremely careless, to say the least. Violence has afflicted the lives of everyone there, not just whites. And it is not - for heaven's sake - "White South Africa".

 

Is there a country in the world you have not worked in?

[pap]

Is there a country in the world you have not worked in?

 

The wonder of being anonymous is that it covers you for things like this. I've no reason not to take Verbal at his word, but he'll likely be unable or unwilling to provide anything in the way of photographic proof.

 

Of course, the beauty of not being anonymous (and having a relatively contemporary camera phone) is being able to produce such evidence at will, much as I did when Verbal suggested I was too stupid to be yanked over to the States on the whim of my clients. I expect those "pap in skyscraper" images still burn to this day

[Saint Paul C]

Judging only on the large number of ex-Zuid Afrikans living in the same suburb as me here in Brisbane I can't imagine that there are that many left behind.

 

Some of the stories that my friends formerly from South Africa about their lives there before they left including murder, rape, regular home invasions and robbery leaves me to believe that it's not a particularly safe place anymore. So much so that a friend's mother is dying of cancer in Durban and he wants to go back to see her before she passes on but is not willing to takes his kids with him as the risk is too high. Such a sad state of affairs and not one that Mandela would have thought he would see after the end of apartheid.

 

I had the pleasure of meeting Francios Piennar last year and he spoke lovingly about his friendship with Mandela and that Mandela is the god-father to his kids. Will be a sad day when NM passes and somewhat ironic that it's his stay on Robben Island that caused his illness.

[pap]

Judging only on the large number of ex-Zuid Afrikans living in the same suburb as me here in Brisbane I can't imagine that there are that many left behind.

 

Some of the stories that my friends formerly from South Africa about their lives there before they left including murder, rape, regular home invasions and robbery leaves me to believe that it's not a particularly safe place anymore. So much so that a friend's mother is dying of cancer in Durban and he wants to go back to see her before she passes on but is not willing to takes his kids with him as the risk is too high. Such a sad state of affairs and not one that Mandela would have thought he would see after the end of apartheid.

 

I had the pleasure of meeting Francios Piennar last year and he spoke lovingly about his friendship with Mandela and that Mandela is the god-father to his kids. Will be a sad day when NM passes and somewhat ironic that it's his stay on Robben Island that caused his illness.

 

We've got some South African friends, despite never having been to South Africa. Most turned up in our lives in the early 2000s. I know a couple of people from work, while the missus has a good friend from Cape Town. First mate of mine came here to work, is still here, and will likely go back. My former apprentice met a black South African girl here, married her and has a couple of kids with her now. They were out there for five years, but are back in the UK now. ms pap's mate has been back and forth for years. I'd expect that she'll be making the return trip to the UK anytime soon.

 

Verbal is trying to spread the violence about, although I'm not sure I buy it. The specifics on this thread are about black-on-white violence in South Africa. Is he trying to say that there are groups in South Africa committing white-on-black violence?

 

Historically, this has been the case; it probably fuels a great deal of the enmity now. White-on-black violence is by no means irrelevant, but I doubt it as a current concern. It's telling that the top results for Google search "white-on-black violence South Africa" are a load of stories about what we're talking about now, black-on-white violence.

[OldNick]

In my small experience of South Africa i have found the Africaans (Boers) to be an awful set of people and would not ever want them to rule over me. mandela has shown tyhaty he is not for revenge and i do feel things could get tricky once he departs this world. i do hope Im wrong

[View From The Top]

Remember a piece, not so long ago, about the murder rate of white SA farmers and their families. It was shocking.

 

I wanted to take the wife to Cape Town but she won't go due to the perceived threat of violence.

 

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2

[Whitey Grandad]

Remember a piece, not so long ago, about the murder rate of white SA farmers and their families. It was shocking.

 

I wanted to take the wife to Cape Town but she won't go due to the perceived threat of violence.

 

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2

 

Here too. My wife desperately wants to go but is put off by the thought of the violence. Cape Town alone would do, should we be worried?

[alpine_saint]

In my small experience of South Africa i have found the Africaans (Boers) to be an awful set of people and would not ever want them to rule over me.

 

Hard to argue with this one. When we moved back to the UK in 2004 my wife befriended an Afrikaaner that had fled SA. She was only given residential status in the UK because her South African husband also had a German passport. As soon as they got to the UK, she applied for citizenship, once she has that she got a UK passport. As soon as she got that she emigrated to Canada.

 

She basically used the UK to get to Canada. And she was one of the most rude, ignorant offensive people I have ever met.

[Big Bad Bob]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist!!

[Sour Mash]

Here too. My wife desperately wants to go but is put off by the thought of the violence. Cape Town alone would do, should we be worried?

From what I've been told Cape Town is fine to visit.

 

On the overall subject of the thread - I've worked with loads of white South Africans over the last ten or so years and they've all moved over here for one reason - fear for their families safety and security.

[Ludwig]

Is there a country in the world you have not worked in?

 

Is there any thread that you haven't posted your inane drivel on?

 

Surely.

 

He felt there was a need for white Afrikaaners to violently defend their homes and way of life, to the point of pre-emptive action. Not interested or in agreement with all the racial b*ll*cks he spouted.

 

No doubt you will try to infer a racist message behind my comment.

 

It's not hard to start inferring messages from a post that says "maybe Terrablanche had a point" when you don't explain what you mean. Now, having explained what you meant, it seems you are agreeing with him for saying that the whites needed to take pre-emptive strikes against the blacks in order to protect their "way of life" (which, let us be clear, is founded upon a racist system and involved years of bloody oppression).

 

South Africa is a sad country but wholly predictable in that simply getting rid of apartheid was obviously not going to change a huge amount as all of the power and money lies in the hands of the whites. People can have the right to vote, but does that actually make any difference - I don't believe thats where the power lies. The violence that we see now in South Africa is also wholly predictable -years of endless violence and oppression followed by no improvement to living standards or any real hope after the handover of power, coupled with a lack of education leads people to this sort of behaviour. Where violence is the norm, it will continue unabated until significant changes are made and the cycle is broken. The most startling fact I know about South Africa is that black girls are more likely to be raped than learn to read and write.

 

And on a slightly different note, the pap/verbal spat is getting a little tiresome now. Not every thread needs you to goad each other constantly. You're both intelligent posters with interesting things to say, not sure why there is so much animosity, but you're beginning to turn each lounge thread into the same bullsh*t we read across the rest of the forum where the same usual suspects just prod and provoke for no reason (and please ignore my prodding of delldays, above, he's a different case who deserves it)