Malaysia Airlines plane missing

[Whitey Grandad]

If "organised" terrorism was involved then typically wouldn't someone have claimed responsibility for this by now?

 

You'd think so. If you are misguided enough to do it for a 'cause' then you'd want everybody to know about it.

[Viking Warrior]

It is strange that a plane just disappears like that with no explanation so far.

 

Lots of speculation some could be right some could be way of the mark

 

the issue about two folk with stolen passports is an interesting theory

 

The two passengers with the stolen passports had consecutive ticket numbers, bought from the same place.

 

Im sure I read in one of the reports that these two individuals were booked on a connecting flight to europe from beijing.

 

if they were some form of terorist and had some kind bomb in their luggage perhaps it went off prematurely, instead of when they were on the european flight

 

Pure speculations of course

 

I think its some kind of mechanical failure , Very Tragic

[Golden Balls]

I'm terrified of flying as it is. This won't help when I'm off on holiday this week.

[stevegrant]

I'm terrified of flying as it is. This won't help when I'm off on holiday this week.

Statistically the safest mode of transport

[Sheaf Saint]

I think its some kind of mechanical failure , Very Tragic

 

But surely they would still have been able to send out some kind of distress signal if that was the case. The fact that they just went off radar with no contact with ATC is what makes it so odd.

[Halo Stickman]

Statistically the safest mode of transport

 

Aye, but not much of a consolation when you’re plummeting from 35,000 feet without a parachute

 

Let's hope the poor sods in this latest incident didn't know too much about what was happening and died quickly

[Lighthouse]

But surely they would still have been able to send out some kind of distress signal if that was the case. The fact that they just went off radar with no contact with ATC is what makes it so odd.

 

Depending on how far out to sea they were, the aircraft probably wasn't under radar contact. When you start doing flights beyond radar coverage, the rules change. Crews have to be specially trained and equipped with HF radios. The aircraft follow a pre determined course with compulsory reporting points along the way.

 

If this accident had happened over land, ATC would probably be able to give the crash location to within a couple of miles. The primary radar returns would also give an indication as to whether the aircraft was intact as it went down or there was an inflight break up.

[Viking Warrior]

Talking of accidents.

 

I saw on the news that a Motorcyclist died on the A9 at Alness a couple of days. and I thought not another accident

Heard on the news who it was and Its someone I knew very well and worked with a couple of years ago

 

Im totally saddened by hearing this news

 

RIP Nigel

[Minty]

Sorry to hear that Viking.

 

It seems China are getting a little antsy. Can't see that helping matters... It seems Malaysia is doing all it can with the resources at its disposal.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26513506

[Golden Balls]

Statistically the safest mode of transport

 

I know. But still terrifying and uncontrollable when it goes wrong. That's where the fear is.

[buctootim]

I know. But still terrifying and uncontrollable when it goes wrong. That's where the fear is.

 

But its just a numbers game - a lot of people dead in one crash rather than lots and lots of small crashes killing far more on the roads. Apart from this flight 13 people have died worldwide so far this year on commercial flights. Around 420 have died on Britains roads alone.

[Minty]

I know. But still terrifying and uncontrollable when it goes wrong. That's where the fear is.

 

My wife is similar - I don't know how bad you get, but she is pretty terrified. All the rational arguments in the world don't help... i.e. the age old one that you're x times more likely to be killed on the way TO the airport, than on the plane. I've explained time and again about the different noises and lights etc... it's the irrational stuff that causes it, and there is very little to get her over it, other than for her to keep flying to get used to it, or perhaps some kind of hypnosis or psychology.

 

We have got some methods of coping and a lot of it is down to repetition and reassurance, reminding her that if there is turbulance it's just like being on a bumpy road, etc, etc. The main thing from her point of view is that she doesn't let it stop her flying, and once in the cruise, she can calm down and relax a bit if it is smooth. Take off is always the worst for her... she doesn't like landing either, but likes the fact she'll be back on the ground again, even if statistically it is the phase of the flight most accidents happen in!

 

Thing is, most things that go wrong ARE actually controllable... only the most catastrophic tend not to be. But that is another rational argument! ;-)

[dubai_phil]

My wife is similar - I don't know how bad you get, but she is pretty terrified. All the rational arguments in the world don't help... i.e. the age old one that you're x times more likely to be killed on the way TO the airport, than on the plane. I've explained time and again about the different noises and lights etc... it's the irrational stuff that causes it, and there is very little to get her over it, other than for her to keep flying to get used to it, or perhaps some kind of hypnosis or psychology.

 

We have got some methods of coping and a lot of it is down to repetition and reassurance, reminding her that if there is turbulance it's just like being on a bumpy road, etc, etc. The main thing from her point of view is that she doesn't let it stop her flying, and once in the cruise, she can calm down and relax a bit if it is smooth. Take off is always the worst for her... she doesn't like landing either, but likes the fact she'll be back on the ground again, even if statistically it is the phase of the flight most accidents happen in!

 

Thing is, most things that go wrong ARE actually controllable... only the most catastrophic tend not to be. But that is another rational argument! ;-)

 

Mate does the Hypno stuff does not always work - story of a kid down here who simply couldn't get on the plane parents had to go to all sorts of hell to find a way to get him back to UK.

One thing that has worked on people is to get them up to do a trial lesson in a Cessna or something on a sunny day where THEY fly the plane, takes a lot of the mystery away

[Halo Stickman]

I used to be quite a nervous flyer, but it seems to be one of those things where the more you do it, the less frightening it becomes. Mind you, it set me back a bit when they banned smoking on planes!

 

Nowadays, I enjoy flying and can happily gaze out of the window for ages if it’s not cloudy, including during takeoff and landing. I rationalised my fear by thinking that if the worse happened – as others have said, statistically highly unlikely – then at least it’s all going to be over fairly quickly, it’s likely to be final, and, if you’re travelling with your family, you’ll all go together. A couple of stiff drinks pre-flight used to help as well.

[Wurzel]

My wife is similar - I don't know how bad you get, but she is pretty terrified. All the rational arguments in the world don't help... i.e. the age old one that you're x times more likely to be killed on the way TO the airport, than on the plane.

 

That should work then. Can't get her on a plane without getting her to the airport. Now you've made her even more scared of just going to the airport.

 

I find the threat of terrorism more scary than mechanical failure, probably because you would never know about the latter until it happens yet it's easy to "spot" the one you think might be a "terrorist" before you board (yes I'm ashamed to say it's always the male Asian travelling alone - pleased to say I've been wrong every time) . But today I read that I am 1000 times more likely to be killed by a member of my own family than a terrorist - and I travel with them without even worrying about it! Perhaps I'll get a separate plane from them in future.

[Minty]

That should work then. Can't get her on a plane without getting her to the airport. Now you've made her even more scared of just going to the airport.

The conversation is usually happening whilst enroute, in a car or coach...

 

I find the threat of terrorism more scary than mechanical failure, probably because you would never know about the latter until it happens yet it's easy to "spot" the one you think might be a "terrorist" before you board (yes I'm ashamed to say it's always the male Asian travelling alone - pleased to say I've been wrong every time) . But today I read that I am 1000 times more likely to be killed by a member of my own family than a terrorist - and I travel with them without even worrying about it! Perhaps I'll get a separate plane from them in future.

 

My money is on Mrs Wurzel or perhaps WhizzKidz (is that still his username?).

[trousers]

This may not be the most tasteful or amusing observation at this moment in time, so apologies in advance, but my old man always used to tell me that the best way of reducing the chances of being on a plane with a bomb is to take a bomb onboard yourself, as the odds of their being two bombs on a plane is exponentially greater than one.

 

Or perhaps it was an old Bobby Davro 'joke'...

 

Stopping my dad saying this out loud at the check in desk 'for a laugh' is always a good challenge too...

 

#1970sHumour

Edited 10 March, 2014 by trousers

[Wurzel]

My money is on Mrs Wurzel or perhaps WhizzKidz (is that still his username?).

 

His user name is irrelevant .. it'll be her. I'd even put money on it myself.

[Hatch]

Is it only the pilot / co-pilot that can give out any may day signal, or would it be automatically sent if the plane went off course / crazy.

 

Just saying in case the pilot was some sort of kamikazi nut case who took the whole plane down with him without giving warnings.

[trousers]

Just thinking out loud, wouldn't it make sense for the 'black box' to have a sensor built into such that it automatically starts transmitting an emergency signal the second that something 'unusual' is detected. Don't they currently only start transmitting a signal if they go below sea level?

 

Edit: I guess that's what you were alluding to Hutch?

[Halo Stickman]

It used to be a requirement – and presumably still is – that all new aircraft had to undergo ditching and flotation tests, in part, to ascertain the optimum landing conditions – rate of descent, forward speed, nose attitude, roll and yaw angles etc – in the event of a controlled landing on to the sea. Until fairly recently, this was carried out using scale model aircraft and large water tanks, and one of the only facilities of this kind was located in East Cowes, Isle of Wight. See link from 2001 below.

 

http://www.knight-gkla.co.uk/splashdown.htm

[Lighthouse]

Is it only the pilot / co-pilot that can give out any may day signal, or would it be automatically sent if the plane went off course / crazy.

 

Just saying in case the pilot was some sort of kamikazi nut case who took the whole plane down with him without giving warnings.

 

There is no 'mayday signal' as such. The two ways of doing it are:

1 - Declaring a mayday on the radio. It will be heard by any aircraft or ground station within radio range. There is an emergency frequency of 121.5 MHz which most pilots will listen to during the cruise. It gets used daily around the world when aircraft lose contact with ATC on their primary frequency.

2 - Setting the transponder to 7700, 7600 or 7500, which are the codes for an emergency, radio failure and hijacking respectively. You do have to be within SSR range of a ground radar station for anyone to actually see this.

 

There is also a ELT (emergency location transmitter) which should activate in the event of a crash or ditching automatically.

[teamsaint]

Statistically the safest mode of transport

 

depends which calculation you use.

per Journey its far from the safest.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety

[Sheaf Saint]

Somebody just posted this up on Facebook. Make of it what you will...

 

[video=youtube;hNZtz-HVy6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c&app=desktop

[aintforever]

Some expert on Radio 5 alluded to the Malaysian and US authorities knowing more than they are letting on. Searching in a completely different area to where it was supposed to crash or something.

 

Very strange, planes don't just disappear. It is weird searching the Malacca Strait when it seems to have gone off the radar heading out the opposite way, I suppose one scenario could it was hijacked and shot down by the Malasians or US to avoid another 9/11 then covered up to avoid any issues with China.

Edited 10 March, 2014 by aintforever

[aintforever]

Somebody just posted this up on Facebook. Make of it what you will...

 

[video=youtube;hNZtz-HVy6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c&app=desktop

 

That looks like a fake, there's planes vanishing and popping up all over the place.

 

Here's what flightradar24 has now

 

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/9m-mro

[saintbletch]

Somebody just posted this up on Facebook. Make of it what you will...

 

[video=youtube;hNZtz-HVy6c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c&app=desktop

 

The registration on that plane appears to be 9M-MRQ. I think the one that is missing is 9M-MRO.

 

I assume they are different aircraft/flights.

[Benj]

I find it strange that if it has crashed that no debris has been found. If hijacked, could it have been taken off radar and flown elsewhere undetected? I find it hard to believe that there is no trace of the plane.

It is possible to turn off the transponder. Trouble is there's not many places you could take a 777 without somebody noticing, it's a big plane.

[so22saint]

I'm reminded of a major plot point in REAMDE by Neal Stephenson at the moment (a great read)

[SB]

What I don't get is how the black box hasn't been tracked

[swannymere]

Wonder if North Korea needs a 777?

[Draino76]

Did anyone mention it being struck down by an meteor?

[Viking Warrior]

So one of the two folk with false passports was an Iranian asylum seeker .

 

And the tickets were purchased from an Iranian middleman called Mr Ali

 

In the Thai capital Bangkok, police say an Iranian man bought the airfares for two men using the passports.

 

Something doesn't stand out here . If you were an asylum seeker why would you need stolen passports from Thailand .

Something doesn't stack up and while I still think it's a tragic accident I'm starting to lean towards a terrorist act or hijacking that has gone wrong

[hutch]

Gone wrong? I'm sure there a few people who would consider that the ability to make a large airliner with a range covering nearly half the planet just disappear from radar screens to be a success.

 

Next, do it with a 777 over the North Pole with 8 hours fuel on board, and watch several billion people simultaneously sh1t themselves.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

A succinct summary of the current situation proved by David Learmont of 'Flight'

 

[alpine_saint]

Alien abduction ?

 

Why is the black box not transmitting ?

[Wurzel]

So one of the two folk with false passports was an Iranian asylum seeker .

 

And the tickets were purchased from an Iranian middleman called Mr Ali

 

In the Thai capital Bangkok, police say an Iranian man bought the airfares for two men using the passports.

 

Something doesn't stand out here . If you were an asylum seeker why would you need stolen passports from Thailand .

Something doesn't stack up and while I still think it's a tragic accident I'm starting to lean towards a terrorist act or hijacking that has gone wrong

 

They were booked for connecting flight from Beijing to (I think) Amsterdam, certainly Europe. Cheapest route available. And the stolen passports were European. So there last hurdle was Dutch passport control and they would be just 2 more illegal immigrants "lost" in the EU. Apparently nothing unusual about it at all.

 

Now reading that Malaysian military tracked the flight doing a turn around the "official" last reported position then flying at much lower altitude in the opposite direction, finally losing contact in the Malacca Straits at 2.40. Malaysian airlines original announcements stated contact lost at 2.40 before altering it to 1.30 between Malaysia and Vietnam. All very strange.

[Whitey Grandad]

Alien abduction ?

 

Why is the black box not transmitting ?

 

It might be underwater.

[Minty]

I suspect it is indeed transmitting, it's just a lot further from the initial area of disappearance than first thought. It looks to me like either a hijack or wilful change of course by one the crew, leading perhaps to an eventual struggle for control taking the plane down miles from its original course.

[dellboypete]

They were booked for connecting flight from Beijing to (I think) Amsterdam, certainly Europe. Cheapest route available. And the stolen passports were European. So there last hurdle was Dutch passport control and they would be just 2 more illegal immigrants "lost" in the EU. Apparently nothing unusual about it at all.

 

Now reading that Malaysian military tracked the flight doing a turn around the "official" last reported position then flying at much lower altitude in the opposite direction, finally losing contact in the Malacca Straits at 2.40. Malaysian airlines original announcements stated contact lost at 2.40 before altering it to 1.30 between Malaysia and Vietnam. All very strange.

 

I find this bit strange as the plaen would have had to cross the Malaysian Peninsular to get the Malacca Straights - I'm sure that the Malaysian Military would have been aware of it re-entering their airspace at the very least

[dellboypete]

edited - duplicate post - sorry about that

[LVSaint]

What I don't get is how the black box hasn't been tracked

 

Black box transponder doesn't do well with its signal under water...pretty daft in this day and age IMO.

 

Did anyone mention it being struck down by an meteor?

 

Plausible theory for the twa crash off the east coast of America.

 

 

 

Pilot suicide i think, but who knows...

[alpine_saint]

It might be underwater.

 

The Airbus 330 that went down coming back from S. America did so over a very deep part of the Atlantic.

 

I thought the S. China Sea wasnt so deep.

[Minty]

The ULB on 'black boxes' has a range of about 2 miles underwater I believe... given the size of the search area, that is a pretty small area to be in to hear it.

Edited 11 March, 2014 by Minty

[Halo Stickman]

Pilot suicide i think, but who knows...

 

I'm starting to suspect this as well.

[Viking Warrior]

What is even more interesting wursel

 

Is the fact that these two people travelled all the way from Iran Qatar and then to Qatar to Thailand and then to KL to Beijing and then on to Holland

 

Seems an odd route to take if they were seeking asylum in germany or holland

 

Why didnt they just fly to Europe from Thailand

 

Also the mother of one of the two iranians was already living in Germany , He could have visited her and then claimed asylum

 

Sorry the more I think about this story the more I become suspicious that the Malaysion security forces and government are being economical with the truth

[Minty]

I think you're reading way too much into these two Viking. People try to travel illegally for all sorts of reasons and via all sorts of routes, and in terms of numbers, FAR more people for this reason, than for terror-related activity. We don't know anything for certain and I'm certainly not ruling anything out, but I would be surprised if the fake passports were linked to terror-related activity, and especially the bringing down of this flight.

[buctootim]

Last track was at 1,000ft below previous cruising altitude near to Pulau Perak, which is an island claimed by both Malaysia and Indonesia.

Edited 11 March, 2014 by buctootim

[hutch]

Using stolen passports would be too risky for terrorists. We know they were both recorded on the database if the airline had bothered to check.

 

It's much easier and safer to use a real one obtained fraudulently. i.e. Having your details fraudulently applied onto a real stolen blank, or better still a real one properly issued by a corrupt official. Both are pretty easy to get your hands on if you want one.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I understand the travel agent who booked the tickets said that this odd route was chosen because it was the cheapest way to fly from KL to Germany.

 

As for pilot (or co-pilot) suicide this must be a possibility I suppose. As the aircraft descended towards the water various automatic alarms (including the GPWS) would certainly have been activated. However if either flight deck crew member were locked out of the cockpit for instance (or otherwise disabled) then the danger is clear.

 

Todays reinforced cockpit doors and the absence of a old school flight engineer in the latest jetliners may have had the unintended consequence of increasing the risk of this happening.