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Pre-sale asset strip?


saints_is_the_south

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I am starting to believe that what we are seeing in front of us here, is a full scale asset strip by KL before putting the club up for sale.

 

Quite simply, she recoups as much £££ as she possibly can through the sale of star players, you could be looking at £100m+ if the likes of Clyne, Chambers, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, J-Rod..etc all follow Shaw, Lallana and Lambert out the door. She then puts the club up for sale at a lower asking price than if those players were still here. Lower price = more potential buyers and a quick sale.

 

I am not the only Saints fan who feels this is what may be happening here, what are the thoughts of the forum?

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A distinct possibility. KL, if she's not into football - and there is no reason to think she is - must have an end-game in sight that:

 

1) Honours her father's project

 

2) is a swift exit strategy

 

3) Maximises her return.

 

 

Now would seem the right juncture to achieve all those objectives.

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I said the same thing in January and was laughed at.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?48857-Cost-Cutting#.U4mjqk1OWUk

 

However I don't think it is to sell the club as it would make more sense to do that now with all assets still here. The valuation would be more.

 

I think just as I did then it is about getting rid of the high earners and the more expensive players and replace them with cheaper options. Maybe after a few sales spend £10m on one player and they will say that's showing ambition etc..

My guess would be now she wants to maximise profits and try and keep as much of the PL money as possible. Which is very dangerous as Norwich did the same thing.

 

Time will tell if that's right or not, and I really hope it is wrong.

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It also makes me wonder if this was the reason she appointed Krueger, who is less face it a master at corporate spinning BS, somebody with no experience in football before. Somebody to save face and do the media rounds whilst she carries through the asset strip? Or am I just being way too cynical here?

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My view:

 

KL dislikes debt, and was not fully aware of what NC had committed.

She has either directly, or through her fathers estate, committed tens of millions to get us to this point.

She wants the club to be debt free and sustainable going forward.

In the short term this means selling some players, and over time improving the commercial income to drive future growth

There is ambition, but it is tempered by the above in the short term

In he long term the club will have the financial strength to be regularly a top 8 team and to drive better deals for players by offering payments in one lump rather than on the tick.

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Do you think that's how they sold it to Ralph, the new Marketing head from Apple and the new CFO? KL "Hey I know you're making wicked money at Apple or heading you're own sports branding company, or whatever you do Ralph, but do you want to go through the stress of liquidating a football team that my father, as his dieing wish, wanted to rebuild?" Why would she waste the time, energy and money to do all that then sell it? It makes 0 business sense.

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Surely asset stripping a club prior to a sale is completely unprecedented in the top flight?

 

Just wouldnt make much sense and surely Les Reed would have walked by now?

 

Ever seen it in your line of work, Glasgow?

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I am starting to believe that what we are seeing in front of us here, is a full scale asset strip by KL before putting the club up for sale.

 

Quite simply, she recoups as much £££ as she possibly can through the sale of star players, you could be looking at £100m+ if the likes of Clyne, Chambers, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, J-Rod..etc all follow Shaw, Lallana and Lambert out the door. She then puts the club up for sale at a lower asking price than if those players were still here. Lower price = more potential buyers and a quick sale.

 

I am not the only Saints fan who feels this is what may be happening here, what are the thoughts of the forum?

 

exactly as I suggested last week,

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I think this is the worse possibility. Another option is they have a figure they want to raise to clear debt; once we reach this the selling will stop. The other option is that we now have a policy of not stopping players leaving if they want to. With each player leaving will result in others wanting out as well. Not sure which option is the most preferable.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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No chance. If they were in it just for the money, it might make more sense for them to sell our best players and try to do the bare minimum to keep us in the prem to milk the TV money (an approach that usually ends in tears).

 

Way too early to conclude anything yet - other than that they have a lot of learning to do.

Edited by shurlock
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Conspiracy theories abound, but I think it is more straightforward.

 

Faz's post was excellent.

 

KL wants to run the club in a 'sustainable' way. NC wanted to gamble on top 6, but KL and her team can see that this is not possible unless SFC go into heavy debt or KL pumps in 10's of millions of her own money. However, mid-table IS SUSTAINABLE and possible !

 

NC falls out and MP decides to go to a club aiming for top 6 and European football.

 

Some of our 'star' players realise that this is their chance to move on. After, Saints were one of the great success stories but it migh not always be so, especially if we bobble along mid -table.

 

FUTURE: KL will be looking to get in a good solid manager to create a good solid mid table club with good solid players and also to allow academy players to come through over the years. We have put a lot into the academy and we will continue to define ourselves as a centre of excellence attracting the future Luke Shaws, who also know there is wvery chance of breaking into a good premier team before moving on to the the BIG 6.

 

RISKY ? Yes, and if we do get relegated then of course it is a blow. But, if we have been prudent and sustainable we will not face the QPR or P*****Y situation of implosion and we can 'yoyo' back up.

 

So, be patient and wait and see.

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Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC 2m

Stalemate in Lallana's proposed move to #LFC. Player wants future sorted before WC. #SaintsFC want to wait.

 

 

Not the action of a club during a firesale is it? A firesale is selling players for bargain basement prices.

 

 

A club mid firesale would have accepted the £20m bid, let alone the £25m bid they appear now to have rejected. If Lallana has a good World Cup his value will go up which probably isn't the case for Lambert.

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Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC 2m

Stalemate in Lallana's proposed move to #LFC. Player wants future sorted before WC. #SaintsFC want to wait.

 

 

Not the action of a club during a firesale is it? A firesale is selling players for bargain basement prices.

 

 

A club mid firesale would have accepted the £20m bid, let alone the £25m bid they appear now to have rejected. If Lallana has a good World Cup his value will go up which probably isn't the case for Lambert.

 

Maybe SFC want top get in the new manager and see if that will persuade Lallana to stay. IMO if he is hell bent on going then I think we will have to accept that and vargain hard for a top notch deal. At least if it is done early it gives the new manager time to replace Lallana and get the side ready for the new season.

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That doesn't make much sense to me. It would surely be much more valuable with the best players.

That would allow a new owner to asset strip to reduce debt though.

 

This, though I dont buy the debt routine IMO.

 

50m last year, 80m this year aswell as associated merchandise and ticket sales. Massive increase in club value since league 1.

 

I very much doubt the level of debt is much TBH

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My view:

 

KL dislikes debt, and was not fully aware of what NC had committed.

She has either directly, or through her fathers estate, committed tens of millions to get us to this point.

She wants the club to be debt free and sustainable going forward.

In the short term this means selling some players, and over time improving the commercial income to drive future growth

There is ambition, but it is tempered by the above in the short term

In he long term the club will have the financial strength to be regularly a top 8 team and to drive better deals for players by offering payments in one lump rather than on the tick.

 

Yep, I could go along with that

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Ben Smith ‏@BenSmithBBC 2m

Stalemate in Lallana's proposed move to #LFC. Player wants future sorted before WC. #SaintsFC want to wait.

 

 

Not the action of a club during a firesale is it? A firesale is selling players for bargain basement prices.

 

 

A club mid firesale would have accepted the £20m bid, let alone the £25m bid they appear now to have rejected. If Lallana has a good World Cup his value will go up which probably isn't the case for Lambert.

 

This is a thread about asset-stripping, not firesales.

 

Stay on topic.

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My view:

 

KL dislikes debt, and was not fully aware of what NC had committed.

She has either directly, or through her fathers estate, committed tens of millions to get us to this point.

She wants the club to be debt free and sustainable going forward.

In the short term this means selling some players, and over time improving the commercial income to drive future growth

There is ambition, but it is tempered by the above in the short term

In he long term the club will have the financial strength to be regularly a top 8 team and to drive better deals for players by offering payments in one lump rather than on the tick.

 

If she thinks that she can progressively move a club in the PL forward by avoiding spending money and selling your better players she has been grossly misinformed

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This is a thread about asset-stripping, not firesales.

 

Stay on topic.

 

Which assets are being stripped? If Lallana goes it will be because we got a huge price and he wants to play Champions League level football with Champions League level wages. Not as a result of an asset strip.

 

Same would apply if Shaw, Lovren and Schneiderlin leave.

 

Saints have a number of players capable of playing Champions League level football and earning Champions League level wages, but can't offer it to them. If they are sold it doesn't by default make it an asset strip.

 

If Liebherr really wasn't as interested in the club as the OP claims, she wouldn't bother going to home and away games as often as she has since Cortese left. Nor would she bother with things like attending the annual staff game. She's owned the club for 4 years and had ample opportunity to sell the club at a profit in that time, instead she's invested.

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Which assets are being stripped? If Lallana goes it will be because we got a huge price and he wants to play Champions League level football with Champions League level wages. Not as a result of an asset strip.

 

Same would apply if Shaw, Lovren and Schneiderlin leave.

 

Saints have a number of players capable of playing Champions League level football and earning Champions League level wages, but can't offer it to them. If they are sold it doesn't by default make it an asset strip.

 

If Liebherr really wasn't as interested in the club as the OP claims, she wouldn't bother going to home and away games as often as she has since Cortese left. Nor would she bother with things like attending the annual staff game. She's owned the club for 4 years and had ample opportunity to sell the club at a profit in that time, instead she's invested.

 

You've changed the topic.

 

I didn't say she's stripping assets - I ridiculed the idea. Read my earlier post.

 

What I am saying is that you've confused a fire sale with asset stripping. A firesale is motivated by the need for liquidity -namely hard cash in order to avoid a disaster or meet some other urgent obligation. You take what's on the table, however low, because you have no choice. Asset-stripping is motivated by the desire to extract as much value as possible from your assets.

 

You claimed that since we've rebuffed offers for Shaw, Lallana etc that this evidence that the board is not interested in stripping assets. Yes I don't think KL wants to strip assts but you can't draw that inference from the evidence you provided.

Edited by shurlock
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Which assets are being stripped? If Lallana goes it will be because we got a huge price and he wants to play Champions League level football with Champions League level wages. Not as a result of an asset strip.

 

Same would apply if Shaw, Lovren and Schneiderlin leave.

 

Saints have a number of players capable of playing Champions League level football and earning Champions League level wages, but can't offer it to them. If they are sold it doesn't by default make it an asset strip.

 

If Liebherr really wasn't as interested in the club as the OP claims, she wouldn't bother going to home and away games as often as she has since Cortese left. Nor would she bother with things like attending the annual staff game. She's owned the club for 4 years and had ample opportunity to sell the club at a profit in that time, instead she's invested.

 

I agree. I don't think she's trying to asset strip at all. You wouldn't be taking on all these extra staff on the commercial side, spend millions on a new training ground, have a staff of 20 scouting new players and managers, bringing in a new board if this was the case. It's the usual thing that happens when players get in the England squad and start mixing with the likes of Gerrard, they get unsettled. I reckon KL is stressed about the situation as well as us - the players are agitating to leave; they are not being sold against their will. MP had no intention of signing a new contract. Apparently he had an agent in France touting him around for jobs over there in April. She might well be willing to invest more funds this summer but MP used us, and I think the worse you can accuse the board of is naivety - there are some pretty dirty dealers involved in football.

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I don't think she's trying to asset strip at all. You wouldn't be taking on all these extra staff on the commercial side, spend millions on a new training ground, have a staff of 20 scouting new players and managers, bringing in a new board if this was the case. It's the usual thing that happens when players get in the England squad and start mixing with the likes of Gerrard, they get unsettled. I reckon KL is stressed about the situation as well as us - the players are agitating to leave; they are not being sold against their will. MP had no intention of signing a new contract. Apparently he had an agent in France touting him around for jobs over there in April. She might well be willing to invest more funds this summer but MP used us, and I think the worse you can accuse the board of is naivety - there are some pretty dirty dealers involved in football.

 

Good post. KL and her team appear to be intelligent, rational people making sensible business decisions. The trouble with football fans is their emotions rule and logic goes out the window. One thing I feel confident about is that we won't face administration again in the foreseeable future and for that we should all be grateful, whatever else transpires.

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I am starting to believe that what we are seeing in front of us here, is a full scale asset strip by KL before putting the club up for sale.

 

Quite simply, she recoups as much £££ as she possibly can through the sale of star players, you could be looking at £100m+ if the likes of Clyne, Chambers, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, J-Rod..etc all follow Shaw, Lallana and Lambert out the door. She then puts the club up for sale at a lower asking price than if those players were still here. Lower price = more potential buyers and a quick sale.

 

I am not the only Saints fan who feels this is what may be happening here, what are the thoughts of the forum?

 

And nothing you can do or say will change any of it if true,the club is privately owned by a rich family and they can more or less do as they please.

My advice to you is safe your stress and just go with it.

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From a business prospect i think she is in it to make money, if she can sell our top players for above value she can make money herself and put some into the club to run itself, example.

 

30 mill for Shaw = 25 mill for SFC 5 mill back to her for the money she has spent/

 

Out of the 25 mill new manager is aloud 20 mill to use as transfer fees 5 mill for agent fees and wages of new players, should she do this with every transfer where she can make money and allow the club to become self funded while keeping us happy, what this means is, we are going to be a team that regularly finishes around 14th-11th with the odd good season.

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From a business prospect i think she is in it to make money, if she can sell our top players for above value she can make money herself and put some into the club to run itself, example.

 

30 mill for Shaw = 25 mill for SFC 5 mill back to her for the money she has spent/

 

Out of the 25 mill new manager is aloud 20 mill to use as transfer fees 5 mill for agent fees and wages of new players, should she do this with every transfer where she can make money and allow the club to become self funded while keeping us happy, what this means is, we are going to be a team that regularly finishes around 14th-11th with the odd good season.

 

About right and how I see it. KL and the board being realistic about what we can achieve. Of course, there is the dread of relegation, but if we get back up we should be OK and if we stay down a few seasons we are not in a P****Y situation. Someone mentioned Norwich. Well, they are not in financial straits and they have a sustainable programme. The advantage Saints have is I think KL has a little bit more money to 'pump prime' SFC if needed than Norwich.

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I am starting to believe that what we are seeing in front of us here, is a full scale asset strip by KL before putting the club up for sale.

 

Quite simply, she recoups as much £££ as she possibly can through the sale of star players, you could be looking at £100m+ if the likes of Clyne, Chambers, Lovren, Schneiderlin, Wanyama, J-Rod..etc all follow Shaw, Lallana and Lambert out the door. She then puts the club up for sale at a lower asking price than if those players were still here. Lower price = more potential buyers and a quick sale.

 

I am not the only Saints fan who feels this is what may be happening here, what are the thoughts of the forum?

 

Absolutely spot on. I've been saying this for months. Cortese knew of the plan and wanted no part in it. That's why he's gone.

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Yeah, can do. What are the terms to an asset stripping exercise?

 

Ok, let's say at start of new season we are -£50M on net transfers - to be clear, we spend less than £50M on new players, than we get from player and manager sales (£2M for MP).

 

I don't have an issue with you personalty (actually you are one of the more sensible posters on here|), but have have serious misgivings over KL. I have supported Saints since 1974 and really enjoyed most of it, but this really concerns me. Hope I am wrong?

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Do you think that's how they sold it to Ralph, the new Marketing head from Apple and the new CFO? KL "Hey I know you're making wicked money at Apple or heading you're own sports branding company, or whatever you do Ralph, but do you want to go through the stress of liquidating a football team that my father, as his dieing wish, wanted to rebuild?" Why would she waste the time, energy and money to do all that then sell it? It makes 0 business sense.

 

Exactly! And I'm afraid it's more likely that all the players that are leaving and mp actually want/wanted to go! This doesn't look like an assets strip to me, more like letting people go who want to leave. The real indication will be who our new manager is, and what players we get in, though tbh, I would only want a few quality replacements so as to leave space for our youth to progress in to the first team

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No chance. If they were in it just for the money, it might make more sense for them to sell our best players and try to do the bare minimum to keep us in the prem to milk the TV money (an approach that usually ends in tears).

 

Way too early to conclude anything yet - other than that they have a lot of learning to do.

Yeah, thats my take on it. The board are probably suffering from being naive and have been caught out in the deep end early on, but they're clearly not asset-stripping. Why would Krueger come on board for that, unless KL is playing him as a complete fool which he clearly isn't.
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Has anybody considered that KL may already have a buyer for the club? A man who was rumoured to be going away to try and secure the funds to come back and buy the club? I think you all know who I'm referring to? Nicola Cortese. What if he's been unable to secure the funding to the level she wanted so she's stripping what she can out of the business and will then sell for a lower figure that is achievable for NC.

 

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix. It's a good one for the conspiracy theorists.

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Has anybody considered that KL may already have a buyer for the club? A man who was rumoured to be going away to try and secure the funds to come back and buy the club? I think you all know who I'm referring to? Nicola Cortese. What if he's been unable to secure the funding to the level she wanted so she's stripping what she can out of the business and will then sell for a lower figure that is achievable for NC.

 

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix. It's a good one for the conspiracy theorists.

 

Doubt Cortese would want the club stripped of all the assets he built up.

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Yeah, thats my take on it. The board are probably suffering from being naive and have been caught out in the deep end early on, but they're clearly not asset-stripping. Why would Krueger come on board for that, unless KL is playing him as a complete fool which he clearly isn't.

 

Agree with this, although I think they're definitely suffering from being naive rather than probably - and that problem is greatly magnified by the fact that Reed is their only attachment to football reality.

 

The "asset stripping" suggestion is ridiculous. I've tried to make the point again and again that the very private Katharina would not have come out of her preferred shadows to take on a high profile leadership role unless she wanted to continue to build towards her Father's dream. She could have sold the club and stayed in the shadows or paid people to do any dirty work.

 

Her heart is entirely in the right place, and so is Ralph's, but Les Reed is letting them both down badly IMO, and the only salvation is bringing in a top-notch, strong-willed manager/head coach ASAP.

 

Having said that, I fear that Katharina's appetite for Saints has taken a pounding in the past three weeks - not just from the Pochettino saga and the player unrest, but also (if she's aware of it, and I suspect she is) from the sheer nastiness that some fans resort to in times of stress.

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Agree with this, although I think they're definitely suffering from being naive rather than probably - and that problem is greatly magnified by the fact that Reed is their only attachment to football reality.

 

The "asset stripping" suggestion is ridiculous. I've tried to make the point again and again that the very private Katharina would not have come out of her preferred shadows to take on a high profile leadership role unless she wanted to continue to build towards her Father's dream. She could have sold the club and stayed in the shadows or paid people to do any dirty work.

 

Her heart is entirely in the right place, and so is Ralph's, but Les Reed is letting them both down badly IMO, and the only salvation is bringing in a top-notch, strong-willed manager/head coach ASAP.

 

Having said that, I fear that Katharina's appetite for Saints has taken a pounding in the past three weeks - not just from the Pochettino saga and the player unrest, but also (if she's aware of it, and I suspect she is) from the sheer nastiness that some fans resort to in times of stress.

Yep, would agree with all that (although I'm probably still a bit more open minded on Reed than most others). I agree re KL etc taking things to heart - long term I still believe she is an asset for us and some of the reaction is well over-board, we could be owned my much worse people.
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