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What is wrong with America


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Criminals get guns any way .....yes

 

Does not reduce crime .......my answer OK

 

I don't think gun control is the answer.........OK ........Not sure if you are an idiot or not...........but you are a patronizing c**t

Okay, fine. Criminals get guns anyway you think. Clear.

 

I was reading somewhere about "concealed carry", the right to carry firearms but concealed.

 

And I was reading, I can't remember where, that in areas when concealed carry is brought in, crime goes "way down". I've got to say I'm sceptical.

 

Do you agree that when concealed carry is brought in, crime would go way down?

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I've been meaning to write something like this for the past few days, but as mental as Sarnia has been, the semi-regular bunging of gun-based atrocities over the parapet in opposition is in fact, little better than Sarnia's doomed quest to portray the UK as slasher central.

 

Both sides are doing the same thing; referring to something nasty but relatively exceptional, effectively saying "that's representative". Neither side is correct.

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The difference, of course, is that if you take away the anecdotes, then the statistics are clear and unequivocal. Which is of course where the thread started out.

 

Anyway, how's this for responsible gun ownership: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/07/nine-year-old-shot-by-family-member-on-easter/

 

The statistics are somewhat meaningless without the context, and most of the comments made in support of the links are either rhetorical or redundant. Sarnia is in the wrong for not taking anything on board, but if all we're doing is bunging ordnance on the decks, then I can't really blame him for saying that people are just US bashing.

 

Most people are.

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The statistics are somewhat meaningless without the context, and most of the comments made in support of the links are either rhetorical or redundant. Sarnia is in the wrong for not taking anything on board, but if all we're doing is bunging ordnance on the decks, then I can't really blame him for saying that people are just US bashing.

 

Most people are.

 

Can't be bothered to go and check every post, but i really don't think most posts are outright bashing the US. The focus of the argument is - in the main - on the specific reluctance to even consider a different approach to firearms... or that there is even a problem to address in the first place.

 

Throwing news articles around is just a blunt instrument to demonstrate that there is an issue there.

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Can't be bothered to go and check every post, but i really don't think most posts are outright bashing the US. The focus of the argument is - in the main - on the specific reluctance to even consider a different approach to firearms... or that there is even a problem to address in the first place.

 

Throwing news articles around is just a blunt instrument to demonstrate that there is an issue there.

 

Do you think?

 

Approach it a different way then.

 

Take out all the posts where people are just linking a crime, take out all the stuff where people are jockeying with Sarnia. How much considered stuff is left?

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Take out all the posts where people are just linking a crime, take out all the stuff where people are jockeying with Sarnia. How much considered stuff is left?

 

Only on a reductionist view can you conclude that the individual stories of gun mania have no connection to a larger picture. The death-by-cop incident yesterday, for example, is far from isolated – you watch the news, right?

 

I’d say this thread has been a good one, and hasn’t on the whole resorted to unthinking USA-bashing (a favourite pastime of yours ironically).

 

FWIW, I think a few things stand out:

 

Part of the problem in the US is the fetishisation of guns. Too many Americans know too much, in a trainspottery way, about the minutest details and performance of this or that piece of annihilating semi-automatic weaponry.

 

Another is an inoculation from the real, terrifying effects of this weaponry. I remember growing up watching Westerns on TV and thinking that bullets merely sting when they strike a cowboy’s hand and dislodge his revolver. Because in Westerns that’s how they always reacted – the gun flying out of their hands and their clutching a presumably lightly bruised wrist.

 

The ludicrously simplistic good guys/bad guys dichotomy also rears its head in the proliferation of gun violence in the USA, fostered by POV shooter games and movies, frankly, like American Sniper, where even the language – ‘savages’ – is the same as in the old Westerns, dehumanising the supposed enemy and obscuring the real consequences of taking a bullet to the face. Having worked in conflict zones and seen a few things for real, I shudder to think of the pernicious effects of this nonsense when allied to a wider gun culture.

 

And then there’s implicit in all this a kind of individuated MAD (mutually assured destruction) advocated by the American gun lobby, a Utopia in which the entire country is in a gigantic Mexican stand-off. You hear this rubbish after mass shootings like Sandy Hook, when the National Rifle Association argued that the way to avoid it would have been to arm all the primary school teachers so that they could just shoot anything that moved while they taught arithmetic.

 

So there’s plenty of stuff to think about as a result of this thread. Odd to think otherwise.

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I'm not saying that this thread is bereft of decent input, rather that it has settled into a series of unqualified jabs from each side. I'm not sensing much that's constructive, more along the lines of "f**k you, you've got it worse".

 

Yours is a decent contribution.

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I'm not saying that this thread is bereft of decent input, rather that it has settled into a series of unqualified jabs from each side. I'm not sensing much that's constructive, more along the lines of "f**k you, you've got it worse".

 

Yours is a decent contribution.

 

Tbf Sarnia doesn't qualify for reasoned debate. I am amazed how many people have posted sense to which he retorts as per his caricature.

I have been to America plenty and met many good sorts however there is a lot wrong with lots of it. The mid-south was so friendly and refreshing their general lack of cynicism however also worrying their lack of humility and willingness to embrace or try and understand anyone or anything different ie. approach to guns. Sweeping generalisation I know.

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Tbf Sarnia doesn't qualify for reasoned debate. I am amazed how many people have posted sense to which he retorts as per his caricature.

I have been to America plenty and met many good sorts however there is a lot wrong with lots of it. The mid-south was so friendly and refreshing their general lack of cynicism however also worrying their lack of humility and willingness to embrace or try and understand anyone or anything different ie. approach to guns. Sweeping generalisation I know.

 

Sarnia has dominated proceedings with his input each day, but the stuff that follows his posts aren't solely for him. We could have had Hull City supporters descending on this thread and thinking we were all rednecks. We've got the repute of the site to uphold!

 

The individual experiences have been one of the better parts of this thread.

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I've been meaning to write something like this for the past few days, but as mental as Sarnia has been, the semi-regular bunging of gun-based atrocities over the parapet in opposition is in fact, little better than Sarnia's doomed quest to portray the UK as slasher central.

 

Both sides are doing the same thing; referring to something nasty but relatively exceptional, effectively saying "that's representative". Neither side is correct.

 

There's no point intellectually examining the thread. Sarnia is nuts and wrong. The rest of us are right.

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Sorry for the spelling once again .......so if the Steel City aint in the GTA its part of The Golden Horseshoe......means the same thing in the rest of the province

 

It's not just the spelling that concerns me, it's the factual errors.

 

The GTA and the Golden Horseshoe are not the same thing, regardless of where you happen to live in the province!

 

The term Golden Horseshoe has been around since the 1950s; it has always meant (at a minimum) the region of land bordering the western edge of Lake Ontario running from the Niagara River around to Toronto. It forms a horseshoe shape.

 

The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is limited to the regional municipalities which surround the city of Toronto: Durham, York, Peel and Halton.

 

There are major differences in attitude and culture between the people of Toronto and the people of Hamilton, even though they live relatively near to each other - just like there must be big differences in the attitudes of people living in Sarnia and Detroit, and even differences between those living in Sarnia and Windsor.

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Tbf Sarnia doesn't qualify for reasoned debate. I am amazed how many people have posted sense to which he retorts as per his caricature.

 

This.

 

Fair to say I am not adding anything to the wider debate anymore other than possibly the longest and most pointless long game of my forum life (in itself pretty pointless).

 

Read in sequence It's coming together like a tone poem, like something by Samuel Beckett or a gun-based football forum Beowulf, albeit with more swearing.

 

The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

Edited by CB Fry
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Tbf Sarnia doesn't qualify for reasoned debate. I am amazed how many people have posted sense to which he retorts as per his caricature.

 

This.

 

Fair to say I am not adding anything to the wider debate anymore other than possibly the longest and most pointless long game of my forum life (in itself pretty pointless).

 

Read in sequence It's coming together like a tone poem, like something by Samuel Beckett or a gun-based football forum Beowulf, albeit with more swearing.

 

The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

 

:lol:

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This.

 

Fair to say I am not adding anything to the wider debate anymore other than possibly the longest and most pointless long game of my forum life (in itself pretty pointless).

 

Read in sequence It's coming together like a tone poem, like something by Samuel Beckett or a gun-based football forum Beowulf, albeit with more swearing.

 

The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

:lol:

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This.

 

Fair to say I am not adding anything to the wider debate anymore other than possibly the longest and most pointless long game of my forum life (in itself pretty pointless).

 

Read in sequence It's coming together like a tone poem, like something by Samuel Beckett or a gun-based football forum Beowulf, albeit with more swearing.

 

The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

 

:toppa:

 

And, since you mention it, there is definitely something of Beckett in the dialogue between you and Sarnia - Waiting for Comprehension, perhaps. You could have a very long game indeed on your hands.

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Okay, fine. Criminals get guns anyway you think. Clear.

 

I was reading somewhere about "concealed carry", the right to carry firearms but concealed.

 

And I was reading, I can't remember where, that in areas when concealed carry is brought in, crime goes "way down". I've got to say I'm sceptical.

 

Do you agree that when concealed carry is brought in, crime would go way down?

 

Concealed weapons law varies by State........statistics seem to prove it does go down .......so to answer you would have to qualify what "way down" means

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I've been meaning to write something like this for the past few days, but as mental as Sarnia has been, the semi-regular bunging of gun-based atrocities over the parapet in opposition is in fact, little better than Sarnia's doomed quest to portray the UK as slasher central.

 

Both sides are doing the same thing; referring to something nasty but relatively exceptional, effectively saying "that's representative". Neither side is correct.

 

Hey I think you got it ..........

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Tbf Sarnia doesn't qualify for reasoned debate. I am amazed how many people have posted sense to which he retorts as per his caricature.

I have been to America plenty and met many good sorts however there is a lot wrong with lots of it. The mid-south was so friendly and refreshing their general lack of cynicism however also worrying their lack of humility and willingness to embrace or try and understand anyone or anything different ie. approach to guns. Sweeping generalisation I know.

 

I tried the reasoned debate but all you guys want to do is bash the USA.......I could and will say that you lot don't show any willingness to try and embrace or understand any thing different.

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This.

 

Fair to say I am not adding anything to the wider debate anymore other than possibly the longest and most pointless long game of my forum life (in itself pretty pointless).

 

Read in sequence It's coming together like a tone poem, like something by Samuel Beckett or a gun-based football forum Beowulf, albeit with more swearing.

 

The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

 

 

:lol:

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It's not just the spelling that concerns me, it's the factual errors.

 

The GTA and the Golden Horseshoe are not the same thing, regardless of where you happen to live in the province!

 

The term Golden Horseshoe has been around since the 1950s; it has always meant (at a minimum) the region of land bordering the western edge of Lake Ontario running from the Niagara River around to Toronto. It forms a horseshoe shape.

 

The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is limited to the regional municipalities which surround the city of Toronto: Durham, York, Peel and Halton.

 

There are major differences in attitude and culture between the people of Toronto and the people of Hamilton, even though they live relatively near to each other - just like there must be big differences in the attitudes of people living in Sarnia and Detroit, and even differences between those living in Sarnia and Windsor.

 

Hamilton I don't want to get in an argument but ...........the difference in attitudes and culture between Sarnia and the Golden Horseshoe (including the GTA) are way bigger than you know........same goes for Windsor and Chatham......and I always thought that the Golden Horse shoe included Toronto correct if I'm wrong on that.......Know (sp.)you will :)

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Hamilton I don't want to get in an argument but ...........the difference in attitudes and culture between Sarnia and the Golden Horseshoe (including the GTA) are way bigger than you know........same goes for Windsor and Chatham......and I always thought that the Golden Horse shoe included Toronto correct if I'm wrong on that.......Know (sp.)you will :)

 

Jeez, Sarnia, it would really help if you tried to grasp what I actually write. I explained in my last post your errors in posts #838 and #848. I'll try one more time: Hamilton is in the Golden Horseshoe but not the GTA; Toronto is in both the Golden Horseshoe and the GTA. It's pretty straightforward.

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The time difference gives the whole thing a turn-based feel to it, with the responses coming overnight, ten hours apart. It's like a long distance postal chess game. Except you're playing chess with a pi ss ed up bonobo. Who, after eating most of the white pieces and the chessboard is now smearing the walls with his own sh it. But through the streaks you can just make out the letters L, O and L.

 

You'll like this morning's reply. All he could muster was a 'LOL'

Pearls before swine indeed

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Sarnia, I am sorry if I have missed your comments about the slaying off 50 year old Walter Scott by a police officer (and subsequent attempt to alter the crime scene).

The officer was clearly under threat as the overweight Scott ran (well stumbled) in the opposite direction. The brave officer, in fear of his life, put several rounds into Scott's back whilst he was trying that famous attacking manoeuvre (ie running away). Whilst the dangerous man lay on the ground dead, the brave officer approached the body and handcuffed if. He then put then moved a piece of evidence (the stun gun that Scott was supposed to have threatened him with) by the body.

 

Fortunately for us, the brave officer's action were recorded by a passer by (who somehow managed to avoid being filled with holes too) so we have a record of what happened and the officers bravery in the face of grave danger has been kept for use in future training programmes.

 

ps, I'll give you one guess as to Scott's skin colour.

 

Thoughts?

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MMMMMMMMM you got to get out of the GTA and see the real world :) just cant understand why you are siding with these brit no nothings........

 

I can't understand half of what you type, I've tried but it really makes my head hurt. I don't think it's a nationality type language barrier though (for example, I can understand Hamilton perfectly well.) I think it's maybe more of an IQ related language barrier. Did you ever sniff or drink white-spirit as a kid? Just out of curiosity.

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Sarnia, I am sorry if I have missed your comments about the slaying off 50 year old Walter Scott by a police officer (and subsequent attempt to alter the crime scene).

The officer was clearly under threat as the overweight Scott ran (well stumbled) in the opposite direction. The brave officer, in fear of his life, put several rounds into Scott's back whilst he was trying that famous attacking manoeuvre (ie running away). Whilst the dangerous man lay on the ground dead, the brave officer approached the body and handcuffed if. He then put then moved a piece of evidence (the stun gun that Scott was supposed to have threatened him with) by the body.

 

Fortunately for us, the brave officer's action were recorded by a passer by (who somehow managed to avoid being filled with holes too) so we have a record of what happened and the officers bravery in the face of grave danger has been kept for use in future training programmes.

 

ps, I'll give you one guess as to Scott's skin colour.

 

Thoughts?

 

Shocking video, but there are a number of black cops shooting unarmed white guys which never gain the same coverage.

 

It seems the police are trigger happy no matter of the colour of the cop/public is.

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Shocking video, but there are a number of black cops shooting unarmed white guys which never gain the same coverage.

 

It seems the police are trigger happy no matter of the colour of the cop/public is.

 

Blacks are three times more likely than whites in the US to die in confrontations with the police.

 

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

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Jeez, Sarnia, it would really help if you tried to grasp what I actually write. I explained in my last post your errors in posts #838 and #848. I'll try one more time: Hamilton is in the Golden Horseshoe but not the GTA; Toronto is in both the Golden Horseshoe and the GTA. It's pretty straightforward.

 

Just what are we arguing about ??.........OK so Hamilton is not the GTA........think you will find that Oakville and Burlington are considered to be......but hey I'm from the part of Ontario that don't count :lol:

 

BTW there are tornado warnings out in Michigan you might get some rough weather tomorrow morning ..........forecasting 60 mph winds here after 3.00 AM

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Interesting article on what would have been reported if it hadn't been captured on video.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/walter-scott-shooting-without-video_n_7024404.html?utm_hp_ref=uk&ir=UK

 

Sarnia, I am sorry if I have missed your comments about the slaying off 50 year old Walter Scott by a police officer (and subsequent attempt to alter the crime scene).

The officer was clearly under threat as the overweight Scott ran (well stumbled) in the opposite direction. The brave officer, in fear of his life, put several rounds into Scott's back whilst he was trying that famous attacking manoeuvre (ie running away). Whilst the dangerous man lay on the ground dead, the brave officer approached the body and handcuffed if. He then put then moved a piece of evidence (the stun gun that Scott was supposed to have threatened him with) by the body.

 

Fortunately for us, the brave officer's action were recorded by a passer by (who somehow managed to avoid being filled with holes too) so we have a record of what happened and the officers bravery in the face of grave danger has been kept for use in future training programmes.

 

ps, I'll give you one guess as to Scott's skin colour.

 

Thoughts?

 

Shocking video, but there are a number of black cops shooting unarmed white guys which never gain the same coverage.

 

It seems the police are trigger happy no matter of the colour of the cop/public is.

 

So its open season to put down the cops for you guys..........

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I can't understand half of what you type, I've tried but it really makes my head hurt. I don't think it's a nationality type language barrier though (for example, I can understand Hamilton perfectly well.) I think it's maybe more of an IQ related language barrier. Did you ever sniff or drink white-spirit as a kid? Just out of curiosity.

 

who do you think you are eh for saying that......don't say anything if you have nothing to say .....

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