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Guided Missile

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Barely three months ago, the club made this announcement:

 

Reduced prices not the answer say Saints

 

11:49am Saturday 11th October 2008

 

SAINTS have ruled out reducing ticket prices and creating a matchday area for youngsters in a bid to improve attendances at St Mary’s.

The club have suffered four successive lowest ever league attendances at the stadium, culminating in a crowd of just 14,480 for the midweek win against Norwich on September 30.

Fans have told the Daily Echo that the current ticket prices at St Mary’s – the average adult price is £24 – is too high in these credit crunch times.

 

Fast forward to today and the Echo reports the club admitting they need to be more "inventive" when it comes to next years prices, following the season's best league gate of 26,580 for the Forest game, when the prices were slashed.

 

No S h!t, Sherlock....

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Yet they are still saying they will wait til next year before doing anything.

 

I was arguing for ages that reduced prices would lead to increased attendances, yet Saints (and some on here) were adamant that this wasn't the case. They obviously weren't paying attention in their Economics classes......

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Yet they are still saying they will wait til next year before doing anything.

 

I was arguing for ages that reduced prices would lead to increased attendances, yet Saints (and some on here) were adamant that this wasn't the case. They obviously weren't paying attention in their Economics classes......

 

They cannot reduce prices now, otherwise the ST holders may end up paying more per game than people who just buy on the day.

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They cannot reduce prices now, otherwise the ST holders may end up paying more per game than people who just buy on the day.

 

Reducing a few games between now and the end of the season will not cause ST holders to lose out. People who bought on the early bird only pay around £15 per game, it would take an awful lot of cheap games before they suffered.

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Reducing a few games between now and the end of the season will not cause ST holders to lose out. People who bought on the early bird only pay around £15 per game, it would take an awful lot of cheap games before they suffered.

 

Does it really matter anyway? Season ticket holders are like anyone else buying anything else. You pay the price that was offered on the day it was offered. If better deals come along then so be it, you made your choice.

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Reducing a few games between now and the end of the season will not cause ST holders to lose out. People who bought on the early bird only pay around £15 per game, it would take an awful lot of cheap games before they suffered.

 

Agreed, common sense really. It's important to get the ground fuller with the huge games coming up, starting Saturday.

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Does it really matter anyway? Season ticket holders are like anyone else buying anything else. You pay the price that was offered on the day it was offered. If better deals come along then so be it, you made your choice.

But next season's tickets go on sale soon. Who's going to renew if the price is going to drop later? It's the same thing with the British economy. It's called deflation.

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I suggested a discounted renewal rate for early bird, and standard renewal rates for the 09/10 season for those ST holders who renewed in 08/09 if they felt they needed to be equitable.

 

I, too would prefer to see more in attendance. Though that is tempered by the fact that those that do still go annoy the "jeebers" out of me currently.

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Reducing a few games between now and the end of the season will not cause ST holders to lose out. People who bought on the early bird only pay around £15 per game, it would take an awful lot of cheap games before they suffered.

trouble is though...season ticket holders moan like feck in the main when they reduce tickets for a game...

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trouble is though...season ticket holders moan like feck in the main when they reduce tickets for a game...

 

As you would if you were local and having one - jeesh there is nothing worse than slagging off people when you are never in their position is there.

 

Personally if they reduced all tickets to £20 and kids to £5 for the rest of the season I wouldn't care less.

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Quite wrong. NF was the first (and possibly the last!) game my wife and I have been to this season. I had no wish to see Manure - what was the point - it was meaningless in terms of our season and I can watch MU every week on TV if I was inclined to.

 

In any case in my 40 years of supporting Saints I have seen us turn them over numerous times - and being turned over ourselves in more recent seasons in the Prem.

 

Get Lowe out and "I. will return" more often

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Quite wrong. NF was the first (and possibly the last!) game my wife and I have been to this season. I had no wish to see Manure - what was the point - it was meaningless in terms of our season and I can watch MU every week on TV if I was inclined to.

 

In any case in my 40 years of supporting Saints I have seen us turn them over numerous times - and being turned over ourselves in more recent seasons in the Prem.

 

Get Lowe out and "I. will return" more often

 

My comment has been edited accordingly.

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Quick question - did the club reduce the prices when the VAT was reduced? Being over here didn't spot it at the time, obviously that 2.5% would make such a huge difference (thanks Gordon good one that!)

Like most businesses it's too much trouble to change the pricing structure so most of them just swallow the increased margin and say something like 'it helps a little to offset our rising costs'. It was a truly ineffective and costly gesture.

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What gets me is that the club haven't even discussed reducing prices to get higher attendances amongst themselves yet.

 

Luker says:

 

“But what I can do as box office manager is look at more inventive pricing for next season.

 

“We need to be more inventive as a club.

 

That’s my personal view, it’s not something we’ve discussed internally yet.

 

“We need more people coming to watch the games so we need to look at our prices."

 

It's amazing, the club is in financial meltdown and they haven't got round to talking about the most basic way of boosting income by getting more bums on seats.

 

Do this Board deserve to still be in business? Personally I don't think so. You'd hardly call them a pro-active bunch.

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Key for me, especially when we are not doing so well, would be to get kids in cheap with each adult - really important to get kids into saints before they get into the prem top 4, and by reducing the cost of tking the nippers to the game it would attract more full paying adults me thinks:

 

£18 single adult

£20 single adult + 1 child

£35 2 adults 2 kids (Family ticket ) - extra kid £2

£10 unaccpomapanied U16s, OAPs etc

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Key for me, especially when we are not doing so well, would be to get kids in cheap with each adult - really important to get kids into saints before they get into the prem top 4, and by reducing the cost of tking the nippers to the game it would attract more full paying adults me thinks:

 

£18 single adult

£20 single adult + 1 child

£35 2 adults 2 kids (Family ticket ) - extra kid £2

£10 unaccpomapanied U16s, OAPs etc

 

Hey Frank not all OAPS need their nurse with them....some OAPS can attend regularly unaccompanied ;-)

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I have a suggestion.

 

At the next (convenient) home match, hand out £5 OFF vouchers at the turnstiles. They could attach conditions such as 'only 1 voucher per ticket purchased, must be used for next home game etc. That way, they not only reward paying customers, but also appease STH's (a little). Could even hand out 10% off at the Mega(LOL)store at the same time maybe?

 

Simple, easy and rewarding those who attend. and could keep it going until the end of the season.

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Originally Posted by Guided Missile viewpost.gif

Barely three months ago, the club made this announcement:

 

Reduced prices not the answer say Saints

 

11:49am Saturday 11th October 2008

 

SAINTS have ruled out reducing ticket prices and creating a matchday area for youngsters in a bid to improve attendances at St Mary’s.

The club have suffered four successive lowest ever league attendances at the stadium, culminating in a crowd of just 14,480 for the midweek win against Norwich on September 30.

Fans have told the Daily Echo that the current ticket prices at St Mary’s – the average adult price is £24 – is too high in these credit crunch times.

 

Fast forward to today and the Echo reports the club admitting they need to be more "inventive" when it comes to next years prices, following the season's best league gate of 26,580 for the Forest game, when the prices were slashed.

 

No S h!t, Sherlock....

I fully agree with the club. Slashing prices will cause us to lose more money. I will post the maths on here later.

 

When you look at the deals going round for the Forest game, it is not difficult to believe that one off would not have raised a lot of extra ticket revenue.

Lets assume for an average game (16500) without all the offers we have

11,500 ST holders, 1,000 away fans, 3000 adults at £24, 1000 juniors at £12, gives £84,000.

 

For Forest (26500) assuming 11,500 St holders, 1000 away fans, 9000 adults at £10, 5000 juniors at £1, gives £95000.

 

Bearing in mind not only did the Forest game have kids for a £1, but equally junior members could go free. Then add in all the junior associates from schools, clubs get in free with a free adult for every 10. The ratio of kids could even have been higher. Even by these rough estimates the extra ticket revenue could easily be wiped out by the extra stewarding.

The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium,

 

Now this occurred for a one off and we would never see the average gate increase this amount as a rule if we applied this price structure across the season. I think allowing an extra 1500 at these prices would be representative over the whole season.

 

So your average gate now (18000) comrises of 12,000 ST holders at £8 each (-£7), 1000 away fans at £10 each (-£14), 3000 adults at £10 (-£14)and 1000 juniors at £1 (-£11). The difference between that average gate and our current average gate is a whopping -£151,000 per game.

 

You can apply your own figures and estimates to these as you please, but the actuality is no where near what you would imagine at first glance. David Luker is a clever guy and fully aware of the options to maximise revenue and crowd. But anyone thinking that the Forest pricing structure is the way to go needs adjusting with a cricket bat. If you want to actually see the effects of pricing structure and how that relates to attendance long term in the CCC, there are many clubs who have already trodden this path and no where near the one off increases of the Forest game.

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When you look at the deals going round for the Forest game, it is not difficult to believe that one off would not have raised a lot of extra ticket revenue.

Lets assume for an average game (16500) without all the offers we have

11,500 ST holders, 1,000 away fans, 3000 adults at £24, 1000 juniors at £12, gives £84,000.

 

For Forest (26500) assuming 11,500 St holders, 1000 away fans, 9000 adults at £10, 5000 juniors at £1, gives £95000.

 

Bearing in mind not only did the Forest game have kids for a £1, but equally junior members could go free. Then add in all the junior associates from schools, clubs get in free with a free adult for every 10. The ratio of kids could even have been higher. Even by these rough estimates the extra ticket revenue could easily be wiped out by the extra stewarding.

The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium,

 

Now this occurred for a one off and we would never see the average gate increase this amount as a rule if we applied this price structure across the season. I think allowing an extra 1500 at these prices would be representative over the whole season.

 

So your average gate now (18000) comrises of 12,000 ST holders at £8 each (-£7), 1000 away fans at £10 each (-£14), 3000 adults at £10 (-£14)and 1000 juniors at £1 (-£11). The difference between that average gate and our current average gate is a whopping -£151,000 per game.

 

You can apply your own figures and estimates to these as you please, but the actuality is no where near what you would imagine at first glance. David Luker is a clever guy and fully aware of the options to maximise revenue and crowd. But anyone thinking that the Forest pricing structure is the way to go needs adjusting with a cricket bat. If you want to actually see the effects of pricing structure and how that relates to attendance long term in the CCC, there are many clubs who have already trodden this path and no where near the one off increases of the Forest game.

 

So all the extra juniors dont buy food, drink, programmes, stuff in megastore?

For your info we were 8 stewards down for the Forest game so you can discount that from your sums.

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Originally Posted by up and away viewpost.gif

When you look at the deals going round for the Forest game, it is not difficult to believe that one off would not have raised a lot of extra ticket revenue.

Lets assume for an average game (16500) without all the offers we have

11,500 ST holders, 1,000 away fans, 3000 adults at £24, 1000 juniors at £12, gives £84,000.

 

For Forest (26500) assuming 11,500 St holders, 1000 away fans, 9000 adults at £10, 5000 juniors at £1, gives £95000.

 

Bearing in mind not only did the Forest game have kids for a £1, but equally junior members could go free. Then add in all the junior associates from schools, clubs get in free with a free adult for every 10. The ratio of kids could even have been higher. Even by these rough estimates the extra ticket revenue could easily be wiped out by the extra stewarding.

The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium,

 

Now this occurred for a one off and we would never see the average gate increase this amount as a rule if we applied this price structure across the season. I think allowing an extra 1500 at these prices would be representative over the whole season.

 

So your average gate now (18000) comrises of 12,000 ST holders at £8 each (-£7), 1000 away fans at £10 each (-£14), 3000 adults at £10 (-£14)and 1000 juniors at £1 (-£11). The difference between that average gate and our current average gate is a whopping -£151,000 per game.

 

You can apply your own figures and estimates to these as you please, but the actuality is no where near what you would imagine at first glance. David Luker is a clever guy and fully aware of the options to maximise revenue and crowd. But anyone thinking that the Forest pricing structure is the way to go needs adjusting with a cricket bat. If you want to actually see the effects of pricing structure and how that relates to attendance long term in the CCC, there are many clubs who have already trodden this path and no where near the one off increases of the Forest game.

So all the extra juniors dont buy food, drink, programmes, stuff in megastore?

For your info we were 8 stewards down for the Forest game so you can discount that from your sums.

 

Christ on a bike "The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium"

 

Totally missing the point. The one off for the Forest game is something I feel everyone was behind. But that one off will not represent a pricing structure for a season. Do your own maths, put in your own figures, then look at what has happened with other CCC clubs who have been through the same issues.

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Christ on a bike "The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium"

 

Totally missing the point. The one off for the Forest game is something I feel everyone was behind. But that one off will not represent a pricing structure for a season. Do your own maths, put in your own figures, then look at what has happened with other CCC clubs who have been through the same issues.

 

Has anyone on this thread suggested that those prices should apply for every game?

 

Edit: Although if they did, you'd get a lot more than 1,500 fans extra at each game.

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Christ on a bike "The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium"

 

Totally missing the point. The one off for the Forest game is something I feel everyone was behind. But that one off will not represent a pricing structure for a season. Do your own maths, put in your own figures, then look at what has happened with other CCC clubs who have been through the same issues.

 

I dont think anyone is arguing that £15 adults and kids £1 is sustainable and there is the fact that currently our break even figure was 17k but....£24 is madness to watch the current squad.

Last night I watched the reserves for nothing....8 out of the first eleven have played or are regularly in the first team squad do you believe our prices are value for money?

As I put above £20 and £5 for kids for 2 or 3 games and test the water.

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as a season ticket holder I would rather see a full stadium than care about losing a few quid. It really doesn't matter to me if ticket prices are reduced I'd be glad to see a few more people on a saturday afternoon

 

I agree, but the more cheap seat deals they do the less desirable the next years Early Bird saving.

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As a one off, certain fans will see it as a 'bargain' and mroe fans will come to that game because it is a 'one off', but apply this all season, it'll just be the normal price, people will start moaning that ticket prices will reduce and there really wouldnt be much of an increase in fans IMO. There probabyl would be at the start, but unless we're doing well, the attendance will just drop to the usual die hards that go week in week out, or just when people can go. So probably the same people that are going this year. All IMO of corse though.

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When you look at the deals going round for the Forest game, it is not difficult to believe that one off would not have raised a lot of extra ticket revenue.

Lets assume for an average game (16500) without all the offers we have

11,500 ST holders, 1,000 away fans, 3000 adults at £24, 1000 juniors at £12, gives £84,000.

 

For Forest (26500) assuming 11,500 St holders, 1000 away fans, 9000 adults at £10, 5000 juniors at £1, gives £95000.

 

Bearing in mind not only did the Forest game have kids for a £1, but equally junior members could go free. Then add in all the junior associates from schools, clubs get in free with a free adult for every 10. The ratio of kids could even have been higher. Even by these rough estimates the extra ticket revenue could easily be wiped out by the extra stewarding.

The only real profit could come from additionals spent within the stadium,

 

Now this occurred for a one off and we would never see the average gate increase this amount as a rule if we applied this price structure across the season. I think allowing an extra 1500 at these prices would be representative over the whole season.

 

 

For the forest game adult tickets were £15 - I would go more often if the price was at this or a similar level. I think the club really do need to sit down and think what would benifit the club long term and have the support in the stadium to back the team even if there is little difference in the club's profit margins.

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The simple answer is surely...

 

1. What is the revenue required from 23 home games to ensure we not only break even, but have a little cash leftover to reduce the overdraft each month and have a small pot for some player transfers?

 

As an example say over the year its 10 mil

 

Divide this by 23 games = 435K a match income

 

Take off the revenue generated by say 10000 ST at an average of 350 per ST (£15.20) a game

 

= £152000 per game from ST sales

 

So £435k-£152k = £283K to be raised per game from general sales

 

IF we say 30K -10k = 20k seats to sell which = an Average of £14 per ticket

 

Think this would thus need to equate to about £2O per full priced adult, £14 concessions and £5 under 12s and say £11 under 16s?

 

Would these prices get us a full house in the CCC? Thats the problem.

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Drop the match ticket prices by a fiver (19 quid at the ends)

Reset the season ticket prices for next year against this level

Then give a SPECIAL 4 week EXTRA Early Bird renewal window with the extra incentive of some of the price difference - say an extra 2.50 per game next year.

 

2 birds one stone - reduces the early bird price even more when many talk about not renewing and gets more in the doors

 

and yep i am sure there is a messy VAT thing in there somewhere when it changes again

 

and no I don't have the full details, no I ain't an accountant and no it won't happen

 

Oh and yeah you could run it for a limited time say "Winter Warmer" and not reduce the Early Bird by so much....

Edited by dubai_phil
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The simple answer is surely...

 

1. What is the revenue required from 23 home games to ensure we not only break even, but have a little cash leftover to reduce the overdraft each month and have a small pot for some player transfers?

 

As an example say over the year its 10 mil

 

Divide this by 23 games = 435K a match income

 

Take off the revenue generated by say 10000 ST at an average of 350 per ST (£15.20) a game

 

= £152000 per game from ST sales

 

So £435k-£152k = £283K to be raised per game from general sales

 

IF we say 30K -10k = 20k seats to sell which = an Average of £14 per ticket

 

Think this would thus need to equate to about £2O per full priced adult, £14 concessions and £5 under 12s and say £11 under 16s?

 

Would these prices get us a full house in the CCC? Thats the problem.

 

FC you have already built in some leeway with small pot for transfers and some cover of the debt.

 

This is were the club need to do some market research to see how realistic it is to return to 28-30K fans. I can understand our current position can make it difficult but they can surely perform it under the two possible scenarios - ccc survival or relegation.

 

If the fans don't come then it is player sales that will have to cover the short fall, this of course is something the club would never divulge!

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I dont think anyone is arguing that £15 adults and kids £1 is sustainable and there is the fact that currently our break even figure was 17k but....£24 is madness to watch the current squad.

Last night I watched the reserves for nothing....8 out of the first eleven have played or are regularly in the first team squad do you believe our prices are value for money?

As I put above £20 and £5 for kids for 2 or 3 games and test the water.

 

I'm with you here. I can't afford to take my son to too many games currently so tend to pick and choose games or go on my own occasionally, I did take him to the Forest game because it represented good value (and I already had tickets for the manure game through a mate).

 

If I could get tickets for me and my son for £25 combined then that would seem a fair price to me and ensure I went much more often.

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The club needs to get far smarter with its marketing and ticket sales. the fans are still there but just need encouragement.

 

So my ideas

 

- give every season ticket holder an extra ticket for them to take their brother, sister, Dad etc and do this for the next 5 home matches

- make the chapel corner £5 a ticket but only sold on the online shop.

- make all childrens replica shirts cost price

- anybody who buys 4 full price tickets gets a free one.

- anyone who buys next years season ticket before 31/1/09 - £200 for an adult one.

- child season ticket comes with replica shirt

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To me you only get one chance to sell the seat - I had this conversation with a hotel manager a few years ago. The commodity is the seat for the game - if you don't sell it - its gone. At the moment each game we have circa 15000 empty seats... and god knows how many inthe corporate. This probably suffering more than mos t with the businees melt down. Some of the boxes could be let out for childrens parties. dad/mum uncle (not the sit on the knee type!) Eight kids - little buffet afternoon at the football! not a £1000 quid but a hundred and fifty notes. With regard to seats I think at the moment they might as well give every STH a free ticket for every home game to bring a mate/kid. Imagine the extra revenue from Hot dogs/pies/pints. Maybe sell the season tickets for what £25/30 (remaining games this season)- at least the seat is n't empty and wasted. Also in the short term you might not make more money but you generate a better atmosphere, develope and attract new/lost support ..... and its warmer!! ... bundles of seats with a couple of extra to be used when you like....But what it shows is just how CLUELESS the current regime are - they must go!!!

Edited by ooohTerryHurlock
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The simple answer is surely...

 

1. What is the revenue required from 23 home games to ensure we not only break even, but have a little cash leftover to reduce the overdraft each month and have a small pot for some player transfers?

 

As an example say over the year its 10 mil

 

Divide this by 23 games = 435K a match income

 

Take off the revenue generated by say 10000 ST at an average of 350 per ST (£15.20) a game

 

= £152000 per game from ST sales

 

So £435k-£152k = £283K to be raised per game from general sales

 

IF we say 30K -10k = 20k seats to sell which = an Average of £14 per ticket

 

Think this would thus need to equate to about £2O per full priced adult, £14 concessions and £5 under 12s and say £11 under 16s?

 

Would these prices get us a full house in the CCC? Thats the problem.

 

Sorry Frank - but your opening gambit coupled with your conclusional statement kinda made me chuckle...!!! Is it a solution or is it not a solution...??? ;)

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