Palace 2-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Chez]

Just now, Yozzman said:

Are you joking?

no. We did jack shit asa side for 30 minutes. Had a nice little spell, then pretty much did nothing in the entire second half. What did Tella do that was so great that I missed?

I like him as a player, want him in the side, so have not looking to slate him in any way, just don't see what you and others saw. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

Nothing came of it because they legged him up.

He took so much pressure off us defensively with his breakout runs

[Disco Stu]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I doubt "don't score a second goal" is a strategy we employ

No but something changes tactically and it doesn't work.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Disco Stu

[Chez]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

We still carried somewhat of a threat with Tella on the pitch, but I think the problem we had is that they tired. The subs were just ineffective really.

I thought the subs stopped us getting worse. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, but they did a job. I dont have an issue with Theo and Long coming off the bench with our current injury crisis. I actually haven't written Theo off like most on here.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

No but something changes tactically and it doesn't work.

I think we just struggle to score as our attacking mids don't make much and our strikers haven't been overly clinical. Both of those would be nice to solve, Redmond and Tella at AM is working OK imo and Broja's finishing has been decent, but I don't think that's a tactical thing. More lack of individual quality. I think Armstrong and Adams will click and bang a bunch of goals at some point, maybe next season.

[Baird of the land]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

no. We did jack shit asa side for 30 minutes. Had a nice little spell, then pretty much did nothing in the entire second half. What did Tella do that was so great that I missed?

I like him as a player, want him in the side, so have not looking to slate him in any way, just don't see what you and others saw. 

Personally thought we were poor for 20 minutes, much the better side for the last 20 minutes. In the second half we dropped off and didn't have much other than one phenomal tella run until they scored. Then for next 15 we were the better team. Then it got very scrappy.

[Disco Stu]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think we just struggle to score as our attacking mids don't make much and our strikers haven't been overly clinical. Both of those would be nice to solve, Redmond and Tella at AM is working OK imo and Broja's finishing has been decent, but I don't think that's a tactical thing. More lack of individual quality. I think Armstrong and Adams will click and bang a bunch of goals at some point, maybe next season.

But we do take leads regularly. We don't score a lot no but we've gone ahead many times this year but not won the majority of those games.

 

I can accept that some games turn on their head and you lose points. That's bearable in isolation. I shouldn't be able to predict it every week though.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Disco Stu

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

But we DO take leads regularly. We don't score a lot no but we've gone ahead many times this year but not won the majority of those games.

I think we are better when our players are fresh and fit as our press is a huge source of chances and goals and we just can't hold it up.

Ideally we need to press like mad to get a lead and then transition to more possession style football with quick attackers to catch the other team on the break as holes open up with the other team trying to get back into it. The issue is, our defence isn't good enough to hold a lead and our attacking mids aren't good enough to create chances on the counter against a stretched side, also our forwards aren't finishing at all well when they do.

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Personally thought we were poor for 20 minutes, much the better side for the last 20 minutes. In the second half we dropped off and didn't have much other than one phenomal tella run until they scored. Then for next 15 we were the better team. Then it got very scrappy.

I thought that run was by KWP. Ok, that will read terribly, but my excuse is a low res stream, on my tiny screen. Quality play by Tella.

[farawaysaint]

Respect the point? 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, TWar said:

I think we are better when our players are fresh and fit as our press is a huge source of chances and goals and we just can't hold it up.

Ideally we need to press like mad to get a lead and then transition to more possession style football with quick attackers to catch the other team on the break as holes open up with the other team trying to get back into it. The issue is, our defence isn't good enough to hold a lead and our attacking mids aren't good enough to create chances on the counter against a stretched side, also our forwards aren't finishing at all well when they do.

I like how we attempt to play and I agree with the approach, you've summed it up perfectly there though - we don't really have the level of quality or right sort of player to execute it correctly, that's why it's all a bit fits and starts.

[Baird of the land]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

But we do take leads regularly. We don't score a lot no but we've gone ahead many times this year but not won the majority of those games.

I feel we are too passive. You knew they would make a change and get a chance to score. Make the first change when we are leading please.

[Uncle Albert]

15 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He’s not good enough to move on and not quite bad enough to be sacked.

More likely we couldn’t afford to pay him off when better options have appeared.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Uncle Albert

[Chez]

the press in the first half was a complete mess. Even Palace beat it, leaving two or three forwards completely out of the game and the midfield short handed. All the forward bomb on dont get goal side. Its ugly.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

I feel we are too passive. You knew they would make a change and get a chance to score. Make the first change when we are leading please.

I can't really moan about the subs today, they made sense and were around the right times. The attack was fading, so we wanted to freshen it up. Granted it didn't make us any better but there wasn't much to go with on the bench today.

In the circumstances I don't know what else he could have done sub wise, including timings. They just had a bit better quality on their bench which impacted the game, i.e Olise and Benteke.

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Albert said:

More likely we can’t afford to pay him off when better options have appeared.

2.5 years left. How much is he on a year?

[Disco Stu]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think we are better when our players are fresh and fit as our press is a huge source of chances and goals and we just can't hold it up.

Ideally we need to press like mad to get a lead and then transition to more possession style football with quick attackers to catch the other team on the break as holes open up with the other team trying to get back into it. The issue is, our defence isn't good enough to hold a lead and our attacking mids aren't good enough to create chances on the counter against a stretched side, also our forwards aren't finishing at all well when they do.

We lack quality but I dont believe we have the worst squad in the league. We can't keep using lack of quality as an excuse against teams like Norwich, Brighton, Palace, Newcastle... they don't have the embarrassing records we sadly now hold. It isn't just the teams quality. Not at all. I doubt our strategy. If we lack the quality to play the system, don't play the system.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Disco Stu

[Daft Kerplunk]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

2.5 years left. How much is he on a year?

It’d be a £15m pay off as he’s on £6m a year

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I can't really moan about the subs today, they made sense and were around the right times. The attack was fading, so we wanted to freshen it up. Granted it didn't make us any better but there wasn't much to go with on the bench today.

In the circumstances I don't know what else he could have done sub wise, including timings. They just had a bit better quality on their bench which impacted the game, i.e Olise and Benteke.

I thought we should have at least taken off Smallbone on the hour mark. Ideally a double change then re-inforcing the right side where they had joy with (diallo & Perraud etc)

Don't see why we have to wait for the 70th minute especially as Palace were on top even before they scored and yet they still made a sub.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

We lack quality but I dont believe we have the worst squad in the league. We can't keep using lack of quality as an excuse against teams like Norwich, Brighton, Palace, Newcastle... they don't have the embarrassing records we sadly now hold. It isn't just the teams quality. Not at all. I doubt our strategy.

I think palace are a pretty good side atm. A point at palace isn't the worst result. We should be beating Newcastle and Norwich from that list but Brighton and Palace's squads are atleast on par with us, and with our injuries I think Palace had better players than us today. Pretty telling they could bring on Benteke who has 4 goals this season and Olise and we had to settle for Walcott and Long, two players who should be in the championship as rotation options.

[Chez]

Just now, Daft Kerplunk said:

It’d be a £15m pay off as he’s on £6m a year

blimey. no idea why owners pay these arm wavers so much.

[bpsaint]

The frustrating thing about us at the moment is that I don’t believe we’re a bad side, if we could just keep it that little bit tighter at the back and not drop all these points we could be a comfortable mid table side and not look over our shoulder all the time. 

Even choosing the realistic games, let’s say we held out against Brighton, kept it at 2-1 tonight, and McCarthy hadn’t been so shit against the worst team in the league we’d be sat on 24 points in 9th spot.

Yes I know it’s an if my auntie had a cock she’d be my uncle situation, but I don’t believe it’s that far fetched that with some decent defensive coaching we’d be looking up the league rather than worrying what’s behind us.

[TWar]

Just now, Baird of the land said:

I thought we should have at least taken off Smallbone on the hour mark. Ideally a double change then re-inforcing the right side where they had joy with (diallo & Perraud etc)

Don't see why we have to wait for the 70th minute especially as Palace were on top even before they scored and yet they still made a sub.

Diallo was dreadful on the weekend, not sure I'd be wild about him coming on, and Perraud is good but our fullbacks were doing ok imo. I might have brought on Elyounoussi for Smallbone personally, but thats the only different change I would have made.

[Teddeer]

Very happy with a point out of that and there were some positives. Broja again showed what a handful he is for any defenders with his strength, pace and power and also weighed in with a superb goal. He is the best of our strikers which is quite something considering his young age and lack of Prem experience. Tella also played very well today and gave Palace plenty to think about with his pace and willingness to press and work for the team. Broja and Tella could develop into a great pairing. JWP scored a superb free kick but still not convinced his general play is where it needs to be and he gave away some really sloppy balls. I still think Ralph sets us up too light in midfield which is why we find it so hard to retain possession especially when under the cosh. It's why we struggle to hold on to a lead. More in midfield with cooler heads and we would be making our opponents chase the game. Instead the midfield gets over run and we eventually crack. Any point away is welcome and we now need to start winning more games at home especially ones like the weekend encounter with Brentford although they are no mugs and another draw looks on the cards.

[TWar]

Just now, Chez said:

blimey. no idea why owners pay these arm wavers so much.

Prem players are pricey. He is pretty cheap as starting CBs go, which he was when he signed his deal. We are in a spot where we will really struggle to compete in this league until we get financial injection in a couple of years imo.

[Disco Stu]

22 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think palace are a pretty good side atm. A point at palace isn't the worst result. We should be beating Newcastle and Norwich from that list but Brighton and Palace's squads are atleast on par with us, and with our injuries I think Palace had better players than us today. Pretty telling they could bring on Benteke who has 4 goals this season and Olise and we had to settle for Walcott and Long, two players who should be in the championship as rotation options.

Because they are well managed. Over the course of a year, the repeating offences should have been alleviated with tactical deviation. There has been no/minimal deviation so the problems persist.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Disco Stu

[Chez]

Just now, TWar said:

Diallo was dreadful on the weekend, not sure I'd be wild about him coming on, and Perraud is good but our fullbacks were doing ok imo. I might have brought on Elyounoussi for Smallbone personally, but thats the only different change I would have made.

agreed, Diallo really was shite. I'd think twice before giving him another game. Smallbone wasn't much better though. Another area we could strengthen, if we had to brass farthing to rub together.

[Chez]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Prem players are pricey. He is pretty cheap as starting CBs go, which he was when he signed his deal. We are in a spot where we will really struggle to compete in this league until we get financial injection in a couple of years imo.

we are talking about Ralph's wage. Who you talking about?

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

Because they are well managed. Over the course of a year, the repeating offenses should have been alleviatd with tactical deviating. There has been no/minimal deviation so the problems persist.

That and they just dropped like £80m over the summer, they just had massive reinvestment.

[TWar]

Just now, Chez said:

we are talking about Ralph's wage. Who you talking about?

Oh, misread it, thought you ment Bednarek. These threads with a lot of posts it's hard to track which convos are with which. My bad!

[Baird of the land]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Diallo was dreadful on the weekend, not sure I'd be wild about him coming on, and Perraud is good but our fullbacks were doing ok imo. I might have brought on Elyounoussi for Smallbone personally, but thats the only different change I would have made.

Thought Livramento was pants today.

There were any number of options to bring on for Smallbone today. Diallo was crap on Saturday but he has also been very good too on other ocassions..

[manji]

Quite a few have mentioned we are too nice a team to play against. I thought our shithousing was much improved especially Layanco running down the clock at the end.

[Disco Stu]

20 minutes ago, TWar said:

That and they just dropped like £80m over the summer, they just had massive reinvestment.

Despite this we took the lead and it was Jordan Ayew ending his goal drought that caused the equaliser. As I say, there has been no tactical deviation so therefore, the same problems persist. Lack of quality can be alleviated with a good game strategy. We don't have to drop leads almost every week. Teams with squads of similar quality don't hold our unwanted records.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Disco Stu

[Baird of the land]

"We had 20 minutes in the second half we were struggling. After the goal we played brave and tried to make the third goal."

Ralph's comment just sums it up for me. He knew we were struggling so why not do something then before they equalise, rather than having to react afterwards.

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, manji said:

Quite a few have mentioned we are too nice a team to play against. I thought our shithousing was much improved especially Layanco running down the clock at the end.

Not 100% convinced he was running down the clock - he'd just taken an elbow from Benteke.

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Thought Livramento was pants today.

There were any number of options to bring on for Smallbone today. Diallo was crap on Saturday but he has also been very good too on other ocassions..

Livra was good for me, couple of great challenges on Zaha, kept him very quiet other than a goal which he was not to blame for at all. Passed out well from the back, his running relieved pressure. Will say his crossing needs work though.

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Baird of the land said:

"We had 20 minutes in the second half we were struggling. After the goal we played brave and tried to make the third goal."

Ralph's comment just sums it up for me. He knew we were struggling so why not do something then before they equalise, rather than having to react afterwards.

It's one of Ralph's failings - he is generally reactive rather than proactive so never gets the first punch in,

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

"We had 20 minutes in the second half we were struggling. After the goal we played brave and tried to make the third goal."

Ralph's comment just sums it up for me. He knew we were struggling so why not do something then before they equalise, rather than having to react afterwards.

Bench was dire, wasn't much we could do which didn't result in massively weakening the 11 on the pitch. We had to do that anyway when three players were absolutely blowing but we don't have as many options with no Armstrong, other Armstrong, Adams, Stephens, and with Diallo and Djenepo is very poor form. 

[saintquin]

2 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Does that make Ward-Prowse the all-time greatest Premier League goal scorer from free kicks or just 1st= with Larsson? I'm not sure when this was last updated:

 

Premier League Player Stats - Freekicks scored

Yep, he must be shit at free kicks. He's only got the best conversion rate in Premier League history!

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

It's one of Ralph's failings - he is generally reactive rather than proactive so never gets the first punch in,

The attack options on our bench, it would have been less of a punch and more of a gentle push.

[manji]

2 minutes ago, saintquin said:

Yep, he must be shit at free kicks. He's only got the best conversion rate in Premier League history!

Rubbish at corners though.

[LiberalCommunist]

Kinda enjoyed the way Hooper ref'd that game. He tried to let it flow. But, they had the lions share of decisions just for being so damn whiny. I'd like to see us asking for more, just mirroring the other teams behaviour.

Looked like a foul in the build up to their early goal, but var hadn't been switched yet! But, we don't moan, why should they check. 

[woodsaint1]

49 minutes ago, TWar said:

CB has to show Zaha outside, as the commentators pointed out. You can't let the forward cut inside there as a right footer

As a CB you dont want to be exposed out there in the first place, especially not against Zaha. He likely would have shown his outside and he still would have scored. We were struggling after the loss of the ball in a dangerous position and a RB very high

[Teddeer]

Just now, TWar said:

The attack options on our bench, it would have been less of a punch and more of a gentle push.

I was speaking in a general sense not specifically about tonight's game. Most of the clever, really good managers/coaches are not afraid to make changes to alter the direction of a game whether that change is of a tactical nature or a substitute. Ralph doesn't seem to have this in his locker.

[Baird of the land]

2 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Kinda enjoyed the way Hooper ref'd that game. He tried to let it flow. But, they had the lions share of decisions just for being so damn whiny. I'd like to see us asking for more, just mirroring the other teams behaviour.

Looked like a foul in the build up to their early goal, but var hadn't been switched yet! But, we don't moan, why should they check. 

Thought he was fair. I'd moan about the Tomkins handball (but it probably was accidental) and i liked that he let Salisu off with a yellow for clothlining their guy. Romeu got away without a booking too despite landing a few challenges.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Baird of the land

[TWar]

Just now, Teddeer said:

I was speaking in a general sense not specifically about tonight's game. Most of the clever, really good managers/coaches are not afraid to make changes to alter the direction of a game whether that change is of a tactical nature or a substitute. Ralph doesn't seem to have this in his locker.

I think a number of our wins came from going 1-0 up and then bringing on Diallo and/or Lyanco to win the midfield battle and/or shore up the back line so not sure I agree there. Leeds, United, and City come to mind (although the latter two were draws)

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

As a CB you dont want to be exposed out there in the first place, especially not against Zaha. He likely would have shown his outside and he still would have scored. We were struggling after the loss of the ball in a dangerous position and a RB very high

Doubt it, very difficult to score from such an acute angle. That's why showing the player outside when one v one is the first thing a CB is taught. He might have scored but it massively lowers his chances. Of course Lyanco wouldn't want to be in a 1v1 situation against a top forward but that happens as a CB and you have to show them outside and make it hard for them, inviting them to cut inside and hit it with their stronger foot is a cardinal sin for a CB. Others were poor too, don't get me wrong, but Lyanco was the one who made the most fundamental error.

[Teddeer]

Just now, TWar said:

I think a number of our wins came from going 1-0 up and then bringing on Diallo and/or Lyanco to win the midfield battle and/or shore up the back line so not sure I agree there. Leeds, United, and City come to mind (although the latter two were draws)

I think what I am getting at is the type of changes made by a manager where it is so obvious that he's pulled off an intelligent switch that the game changes almost immediately. Maybe I'm not explaining it well but I have watched games where a side gets the upper hand and then the opposing coach makes a tweak and the momentum swings in his favour. It certainly doesn't happen every game but when it does it's kind of glaringly obvious.

[suewhistle]

Well, didn't bother with dodgy streams tonight and went down a village pub and had a few pints and a bit of banter from the Portsmouth supporting locals. Just had a look at the early part of the thread and they say women get hysterical and over the top..:

"Game over. Took two minutes. Bye Ralph. 

Going to be a thrashing isn't it ..

fucking hopeless

Game over

Fucking hilarious. 
how shite are we. 
another battering on the cards. 

I cannot believe what I’m watching. A team absolutely not playing for their manager"

.. and so forth. There are legitimate grounds for criticising the players and the manager but this shrieking, pearl clutching hysteria is frankly embarrassing.

Incidentally, any one else think Caballero's distribution a lot better than our regular keepers? Smallbone had a decent game considering how long he has been out. The draw doesn't surprise me but another disappointment when all is said and done.

 

[SaintZamboni]

Just thought I’d add my two cents.

Interesting to see, despite all the criticism to the contrary of Ralph, that he did change strategy second half.

We started with the usual defend and hang in there but after Tella’s ‘injury’ and then the Long/Djenepo substitution the high press reappeared . It didn’t yield the chances we sometimes get but it was noticeable. It did yield the wide open midfield we usually get though! Maybe that’s the adaptation we’ll now see?

Thought Tella and Broja we’re a handful because they actually applied some pace and pressure to our attack. Changing them was a good cal but only if they both continue this on Saturday.