Tyler Dibling

[StrangelyBrown]

8 hours ago, washsaint said:

A strange move this one.  Dibling is far from the finished product (in fact, I'd go as far as to say Robinson is looking the better of the 2 so far) and Everton is not a big club in the truest sense.  This would effectively be a sideways move for him.

He has the potential to be a top, top player but his form fell off a cliff after a really bright start last season.

For the price tag being bandied about you'd think a club would be looking for the finished article and not a rough diamond 

To me it seems like a good deal for everyone.

It's clear he has tonnes of potential, but I'm not convinced our playing style suits him at the moment (his work rate isn't high enough) so I don't think he'll develop as well here.

We get some money to invest in players who are better suited to what Will Still is trying to achieve.

Plus we've still got Robinson who as you say seems better suited to us at the moment.

[Dusic]

I think pretty much the worst thing we can do with Robinson right now is make comparisons to Dibling or comments to the effect of he is better, more suited etc.

What Dibling and Robinson have done is totally different. Dibling has played in over 30 PL games and looked a top talent, mugging off the likes of Gvardiol and Dalot in particular. He is the subject of a £40m bid and has long been reported to be monitored by multiple top PL and European clubs.

Robinson made a nice debut in a meaningless end of season PL game and has played well in some meaningless pre season friendlies, some of which have been against poor opposition.

This season there should be no expectation on Robinson. Anything he does is a bonus as he is still untested in mens pro football - physically, mentally, technically, tactically. Just let him be without pointless labels.

[ErwinK1961]

This feels like the Lavia transfer two years ago. 

Liverpool started low then kept coming back in £3-5m increments and we kept rejecting them, then Chelsea seemed to come out of nowhere offering £56m and we accepted. Liverpool then tried to match but he chose Chelsea.

[ErwinK1961]

13 minutes ago, Dusic said:

I think pretty much the worst thing we can do with Robinson right now is make comparisons to Dibling or comments to the effect of he is better, more suited etc.

What Dibling and Robinson have done is totally different. Dibling has played in over 30 PL games and looked a top talent, mugging off the likes of Gvardiol and Dalot in particular. He is the subject of a £40m bid and has long been reported to be monitored by multiple top PL and European clubs.

Robinson made a nice debut in a meaningless end of season PL game and has played well in some meaningless pre season friendlies, some of which have been against poor opposition.

This season there should be no expectation on Robinson. Anything he does is a bonus as he is still untested in mens pro football - physically, mentally, technically, tactically. Just let him be without pointless labels.

I agree, but the problem is he already looks like our best attacking midfield option (when the obvious leave).

[Football Special]

Would a Dibling sale count as 100% profit for PSR as a *homegrown* player or does his spell at Chelsea change that? 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Would a Dibling sale count as 100% profit for PSR as a *homegrown* player or does his spell at Chelsea change that? 

Homegrown my dude. 

[beatlesaint]

48 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Would a Dibling sale count as 100% profit for PSR as a *homegrown* player or does his spell at Chelsea change that? 

That contract was cancelled, torn up wasn’t it? So no, 100% ours.

If he goes there I hope he likes it at Everton cos he won’t be able to repeat history this time.

[Turkish]

47 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Homegrown my dude. 

the 2010s called and wants their affectionate male terms back 

It’s now My G, Bro.

 

[benali-shorts]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

I think pretty much the worst thing we can do with Robinson right now is make comparisons to Dibling or comments to the effect of he is better, more suited etc.

What Dibling and Robinson have done is totally different. Dibling has played in over 30 PL games and looked a top talent, mugging off the likes of Gvardiol and Dalot in particular. He is the subject of a £40m bid and has long been reported to be monitored by multiple top PL and European clubs.

Robinson made a nice debut in a meaningless end of season PL game and has played well in some meaningless pre season friendlies, some of which have been against poor opposition.

This season there should be no expectation on Robinson. Anything he does is a bonus as he is still untested in mens pro football - physically, mentally, technically, tactically. Just let him be without pointless labels.

Agreed. And also don't have unrealistic expectations on Robinson to be our most creative force this season - he's only 18, and will do well to play 1/3 of the time (and even better if he plays well for 50% of that time....)

[OldNick]

11 hours ago, washsaint said:

A strange move this one.  Dibling is far from the finished product (in fact, I'd go as far as to say Robinson is looking the better of the 2 so far) and Everton is not a big club in the truest sense.  This would effectively be a sideways move for him.

He has the potential to be a top, top player but his form fell off a cliff after a really bright start last season.

For the price tag being bandied about you'd think a club would be looking for the finished article and not a rough diamond 

To be fair Everton in their new ground and the atmosphere there could be something special......until you dont do well of course. He could be part of their refound glory although being one who was at Highbury in 84 I couldnt wish it worse for them. 

[gio1saints]

Everton would love a new Rooney/box office star. I guess they see Tyler may be that. He may just as easily be Tottenham’s new Paul Gascoigne…

[Colinjb]

8 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Everton would love a new Rooney/box office star. I guess they see Tyler may be that. He may just as easily be Tottenham’s new Paul Gascoigne…

Or the next Danny Cadamarteri.

[Midfield_General]

Or Morgan Schneiderlin

They still haven’t forgiven us for how shit he was for them

[Colinjb]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

Or Morgan Schneiderlin

They still haven’t forgiven us for how shit he was for them

Still cannot quite believe how he went off the boil after leaving us. 

[for_heaven's_Saint]

12 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Everton would love a new Rooney/box office star. I guess they see Tyler may be that. He may just as easily be Tottenham’s new Paul Gascoigne…

Tbf not that comparable. Rooney came through their academy and by the time he was Dibling’s age he was at United. 

[Sheaf Saint]

7 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Or Morgan Schneiderlin

They still haven’t forgiven us for how shit he was for them

Yeah he was shocking for them, but it was his time at Utd that ruined him. Blaming us for that would be like buying a beaten up second hand car and complaining to the original dealer about the state of it.

[Sheaf Saint]

33 minutes ago, OldNick said:

To be fair Everton in their new ground and the atmosphere there could be something special.

Or it could go the other way. For all its faults, Goodison Park created a special atmosphere for them and often acted as a twelfth man, as the Dell did for us but which was completely lost when we moved to SMS. 

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Or it could go the other way. For all its faults, Goodison Park created a special atmosphere for them and often acted as a twelfth man, as the Dell did for us but which was completely lost when we moved to SMS. 

Fair point but the capacity is has increased dramatically. They seem to have been able to get the fans close (by the few images I have seen, mre so than when we built the stadium, all optical I assume. I did put in my post 'until they dont do well'

[Dman]

29 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Everton would love a new Rooney/box office star. I guess they see Tyler may be that. He may just as easily be Tottenham’s new Paul Gascoigne…

As would every single other club in the country.. or is this another "Newcastle love a number 9" nonsense statement. 

[S-Clarke]

16 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Still cannot quite believe how he went off the boil after leaving us. 

We built around him and Lallana for years, and he just sotted in like a glove to what we were doing - but going to another team, without a similar structure he was shown up sadly. He was never the most physical or mobile of players, but we helped shield him from that with Hammond/Fonte through the lower leagues and Wanyama/Fonte after promotion.

He went to Utd and then Everton to be their '6' out on his own, but that was never his game. He needed presence alongside and around him.

[austsaint]

23 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Or Morgan Schneiderlin

They still haven’t forgiven us for how shit he was for them

They’ve been pretty happy with Luke Shaw though!

[Chez]

18 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Still cannot quite believe how he went off the boil after leaving us. 

Me neither. I blame Jose. The first season under van Gaal he played regularly in the league and looked OK, although nothing spectacular - he's not that type of player. When he was benched their record was woeful (four defeats, two draws and two wins). The next season Mourinho fucked him. he didn't play him until January. He then played nine times and did pretty well (I obviously didn't watch all the games, but I thought he looked good in the ones on TV). They lost one game in that period.

He was then dropped and they immediately lost 3 out of the four games he didn't play. Mourinho didn't seem to understand what Morgan brought to the party - a guy that shuts down attacks and gets the ball moving. I think by the end of the season his confidence was shot. The manager had lost faith in him and he didn't seem to know what he was doing any more.

He never seemed to recover and looked lost at Everton. Which is madness. He was absolutely brilliant for us (Bristol City away when he was 17 apart...I hold my hands up that I said he was a fucking pussy in that bad defeat). It pained me to see him playing for someone else, and play poorly didn't make me feel better. 

[Chez]

36 minutes ago, for_heaven's_Saint said:

Tbf not that comparable. Rooney came through their academy and by the time he was Dibling’s age he was at United. 

If Sir Alex was still there, maybe he'd of bought Dibling for ManU this summer? 

[Chez]

28 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We built around him and Lallana for years, and he just sotted in like a glove to what we were doing - but going to another team, without a similar structure he was shown up sadly. He was never the most physical or mobile of players, but we helped shield him from that with Hammond/Fonte through the lower leagues and Wanyama/Fonte after promotion.

He went to Utd and then Everton to be their '6' out on his own, but that was never his game. He needed presence alongside and around him.

When he was 17, yeah, lightweight, but at his pomp I saw him regularly shutting down breaks by outpacing opposing wingers. He was bloody quick and he covered a huge amount of ground in games - and not at a snails pace. He was doing Rodri things before we'd heard of Rodri. He was also strong. Again, not at 17, but in his Saints prime he was muscling players off the ball. He was a beast. I am not sure he needed presence alongside him. He needed a manager that rated and trusted him.

I clearly don't share your view or analysis S-Clarke, although my failure to understand how he couldn't replicate what he did at Saints while at Everton maybe suggests you are right and I am wrong.

Edited 11 hours ago by Chez

[gio1saints]

23 minutes ago, Dman said:

As would every single other club in the country.. or is this another "Newcastle love a number 9" nonsense statement. 

I think it’s the context - not many teams have a shiny new EPL stadium to fill and justify by winning matches this year. Everton do. They will fill the stadium but will they win matches? They couldn’t beat us at SMS last year so a big stadium filled with disgruntled supporters “ starved” of winning and of star quality players may not be pleasant. Having a couple new box office players - like Tyler- is at least some way to moderating the downsides. Albeit v expensive way. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I think it’s the context - not many teams have a shiny new EPL stadium to fill and justify by winning matches this year. Everton do. They will fill the stadium but will they win matches? They couldn’t beat us at SMS last year so a big stadium filled with disgruntled supporters “ starved” of winning and of star quality players may not be pleasant. Having a couple new box office players - like Tyler- is at least some way to moderating the downsides. Albeit v expensive way. 

Everton can't buy world class players as finished articles. They can buy next level down or they can gamble on `unproven' talent that may become world class talent. It's kind of like our decision to avoid "next level down" and instead invest in the Man City lads, only Everton at least are buying a player that has already shown he can do it at senior level...we didn't even have the money/foresight to buy that.  

[CSA96]

David Ornstein update this morning:

 

Edited 10 hours ago by CSA96

[sockeye]

2 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

David Ornstein update this morning:

 

Fair enough to the selling team. Now only if the buying team could get it together we could be selling off kids for 70m+ in the PL.

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Fair enough to the selling team. Now only if the buying team could get it together we could be selling off kids for 70m+ in the PL.

It really annoys me how afronted buying teams seem when you actually make a counter offer to them. Its as if "but we are xxx, you should be grateful to us"

[John B]

7 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Fair enough to the selling team. Now only if the buying team could get it together we could be selling off kids for 70m+ in the PL.

Seems a bit excessive to me 

[Midfield_General]

55 minutes ago, austsaint said:

They’ve been pretty happy with Luke Shaw though!

Was talking about Schneiderlin at Everton mate, in the context of how much we are looking to fleece them for Dibling 

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, Colinjb said:

Or the next Danny Cadamarteri.

Or Francis Jeffers

[Midfield_General]

17 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

David Ornstein update this morning:

 

Nice. Going public with the price seems like a pretty transparent move to push whoever’s waiting in the wings to make their move. We’re basically saying first person to offer this gets him, knowing one of them will. Just a question of who now. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Midfield_General

[saintant]

We need to be careful how we handle this sale. If we play hardball and nobody matches our valuation we run the risk of ending up with a disgruntled player who might well give us a half hearted season at the end of which we flog him for far less than 40 odd million.

[sockeye]

12 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

It really annoys me how afronted buying teams seem when you actually make a counter offer to them. Its as if "but we are xxx, you should be grateful to us"

Yes, and for that reason I've been fairly impressed with our sales the last 2 relegation windows. So many fans were licking their lips at the thought of us fire selling half of squad on the cheap.

[AlexLaw76]

We will probably reduce our demands towards the end of the window, like we did with JwP 2 years ago.

[Saint_lambden]

Should imagine we'll meet in the middle in the next few days as it's only a few million apart. We're calling their bluff and they're doing likewise with the old 'we're looking at alternative targets' trick but Dibling is the one they want.

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

This feels like the Lavia transfer two years ago. 

Liverpool started low then kept coming back in £3-5m increments and we kept rejecting them, then Chelsea seemed to come out of nowhere offering £56m and we accepted. Liverpool then tried to match but he chose Chelsea.

This is most likely. Everton fans going nuts saying its poor from us or that his value will decrease in the championship. Maybe so but maybe we actually want to get promoted so he either stays - unlikely - and we get a top player for a season or he's off but we maximise the value to us. 

[Saint Scott]

14 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We will probably reduce our demands towards the end of the window, like we did with JwP 2 years ago.

I was under the impression there was a gentleman's agreement with JWP, this is a completely different scenario.

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

Should imagine we'll meet in the middle in the next few days as it's only a few million apart. We're calling their bluff and they're doing likewise with the old 'we're looking at alternative targets' trick but Dibling is the one they want.

"The best players will play" according to Still. If he's here on Saturday and by that logic he should play. He won't though. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

I was under the impression there was a gentleman's agreement with JWP, this is a completely different scenario.

Karen Brady was interviewed on the radio ages and was very open in that having had a bid rejected for JwP earlier in that window, it was saints that approached West Ham to restart negotiations and he went for pretty much cost of their original bid. 

[Oldandtired]

45 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

David Ornstein update this morning:

 

Is he on ebay or something?

Edited 10 hours ago by Oldandtired

[CSA96]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Karen Brady was interviewed on the radio ages and was very open in that having had a bid rejected for JwP earlier in that window, it was saints that approached West Ham to restart negotiations and he went for pretty much cost of their original bid. 

She would say that, tbf

[Chez]

27 minutes ago, saintant said:

We need to be careful how we handle this sale. If we play hardball and nobody matches our valuation we run the risk of ending up with a disgruntled player who might well give us a half hearted season at the end of which we flog him for far less than 40 odd million.

You are right, but the player can always put in a transfer request. He will then forgo the massive loyalty payment he's probably going to get, which would bring the two parties closer in terms of the deal.

[Chez]

18 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

Should imagine we'll meet in the middle in the next few days as it's only a few million apart. We're calling their bluff and they're doing likewise with the old 'we're looking at alternative targets' trick but Dibling is the one they want.

Anyone that watched the Sunderland documentary will know how buyers get obsessed with a player and find it almost impossible to walk away. Admittedly the folks at Everton are not a complete bunch of clueless amateurs like they were at Sunderland, but still...

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

You are right, but the player can always put in a transfer request. He will then forgo the massive loyalty payment he's probably going to get, which would bring the two parties closer in terms of the deal.

Doe anyone know for sure that he hasn't put in a transfer request? Him and his agent have made it clear he wants to move on - maybe the club should tell him to put it in writing if he hasn't already done so.

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

"The best players will play" according to Still. If he's here on Saturday and by that logic he should play. He won't though. 

Absolutely, but the "best players" can't play if they have a "knock" or are "ill".

[Chez]

Just now, saintant said:

Doe anyone know for sure that he hasn't put in a transfer request? Him and his agent have made it clear he wants to move on - maybe the club should tell him to put it in writing if he hasn't already done so.

I don't doubt they want the move, if they didn't, nothing would be happening, but why on earth would they do that? He will lose potentially millions in lost loyalty bonus (assuming he has something in his contract to that regard) by doing so. Besides, we want the move too. If we didn't, we would have trotted out the £100m line all summer. It will all be worked out soon. It's the usual transfer game. The only difference is that Orstein appears to be on speed-dial. 

[hypochondriac]

Echo journo stating we want 50 million each for fernandes and Dibling. If we got that you'd have to say it's understandable why we would sell. 

[beatlesaint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Echo journo stating we want 50 million each for fernandes and Dibling. If we got that you'd have to say it's understandable why we would sell. 

Yes you can. Personally I'd want more for Fernandes than Dibling cos for buying clubs he's good to go as he is, Tyler is still a bit of a rough diamond.