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Well, it definitely won't be Suella Braverman and the rebirth of the Conservative Party

CB Fry

By CB Fry,
in The Lounge

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Saints Web Tory Leadership Vote  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Tory Leadership Vote

    • Sunak
      20
    • Mordaunt
      5
    • Truss
      4
    • Badenoch
      3
    • Tugendhat
      3
    • Braverman
      2

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So if the PM dies, does that trigger a GE? What if he wants to step down due to ill health, like Harold Wilson, General Election? What if he does a Biden and starts to lose the plot but the grey suits don’t want an election so prop him up. Isn’t that worse for democracy than a majority of representatives wanting a different leader. 
 

The party leader that has the confidence of the house and can form a Government , is PM. If people don’t understand that, it’s their issue. We send people to represent us in Parliament, they decide who the PM is.

Exactly.

And that’s what’s wrong with this so-called democratic system of ours.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Talk me through this one @Lord Duckhunter.  How did the people we elected decide who the PM is? Genuinely interested to hear.

6-D202172-55-BA-400-F-97-E1-1-E37-ED46-C

It’s pretty simple. If Sunak could command a majority he’d be PM, he doesn’t need to be leader of the Tory party. Truss can form a government because elected representatives decided they would make the winner of the leadership contest PM, they didn’t have to, and can vote her down any time they choose. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pretty simple. If Sunak could command a majority he’d be PM, he doesn’t need to be leader of the Tory party. Truss can form a government because elected representatives decided they would make the winner of the leadership contest PM, they didn’t have to, and can bite her down any time they choose. 

So you’re saying for Sunak to be PM, he would just have to decide to bypass/change the inherent rules of his party. Yes, it does sound very simple.
 

And ridiculous too.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Talk me through this one @Lord Duckhunter.  How did the people we elected decide who the PM is? Genuinely interested to hear. I’ll,admit, I’m a political featherweight so I look forward to you putting me right on that one.

6-D202172-55-BA-400-F-97-E1-1-E37-ED46-C

It's not the best 'gotcha' to be fair.  It was elected MPs who decided which two members would go forward to the final round - votes from party members.

It's not like they were two randoms pulled off the street.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's not the best 'gotcha' to be fair.  It was elected MPs who decided which two members would go forward to the final round - votes from party members.

It's not like they were two randoms pulled off the street.

It’s not a gotcha, it’s an answer to a suggestion that we elect MPs to decide their leader. It clearly a pony statement. MPs clearly are influential but in this case it’s completely obvious that the membership weren’t aligned with the MPs. Truss didn’t come top in a single MP vote.

Edited by The Kraken
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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

So you’re saying for Sunak to be PM, he would just have to decide to bypass/change the inherent rules of his party. Yes, it does sound very simple.
 

And ridiculous too.

It’s nothing to do with the party. MP’s and MP’s alone are the only people who decide the PM. If the party made Tommy Robinson leader but he didn’t have the confidence of the house, he wouldn’t be PM

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted

It's Saturday night. Saints have been caned and Duckie has clearly had one too many sherbets at the ale House. He is clearly arguing nonsense for the sake of it.  I wouldn't take him too seriously. 

If he hasn't and he is serious in his ramblings can he please tell us the last time that the MPs of a party have elected a different party leader to the leader of their party as he suggests. Many thanks.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s nothing to do with the party. MP’s and MP’s alone are the only people who decide the PM. If the party made Tommy Robinson leader but he didn’t have the confidence of the house, he wouldn’t be PM

Are you on crack?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted

Not sure there's anything in this story (if, of course it is the whole story) which should lead to Conor Burns being 'sacked'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63187793

Essentially, the story is saying; man went to hotel bar, man got drunk, man touched another man's thigh.  There is no evidence that a complaint was made, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing, but man was sacked.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not sure there's anything in this story (if, of course it is the whole story) which should lead to Conor Burns being 'sacked'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63187793

Essentially, the story is saying; man went to hotel bar, man got drunk, man touched another man's thigh.  There is no evidence that a complaint was made, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing, but man was sacked.

I interpret it the same. Two blokes flirting. The other bloke involved doesn't take issue with it. Some random 3rd party sees it so matey gets sacked. Seems like he tried to pull so gets the sack. Bloke should have stuck to Grindr, he'd still be in a job, and might have got a bit of action. 

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted

Really think they need better advisors and comms people if they think ‘anti-growth coalition’ is going to resonate. Laughable how they seem to think this stuff is formulaic- it isn’t. As Stephen Fry puts it.

 

26436312-0F74-4FFA-BAE1-7CA286737FCD.jpeg

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted

Also papers leading that Tory MPs need to rally round Truss. Yeah she hatches some bs tax cut, tells no one, they all get slaughtered defunding but rally round the great team captain. She is inept politically alienating so many like Gove, Shapps and then bemoaning she isn’t getting full party support

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, egg said:

I interpret it the same. Two blokes flirting. The other bloke involved doesn't take issue with it. Some random 3rd party sees it so matey gets sacked. Seems like he tried to pull so gets the sack. Bloke should have stuck to Grindr, he'd still be in a job, and might have got a bit of action. 

Most people don’t give a shit about this sort of distraction. Actually suits them to have a focus on this. ‘Oooh wasn’t Liz so strong and decisive’ bs rather than analysing her competency

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, egg said:

I interpret it the same. Two blokes flirting. The other bloke involved doesn't take issue with it. Some random 3rd party sees it so matey gets sacked. Seems like he tried to pull so gets the sack. Bloke should have stuck to Grindr, he'd still be in a job, and might have got a bit of action. 

Even his friends are admitting he was off his face on a combination of prescription drugs and alcohol. Mel B o Spice Girls also accused him of ‘something’ during the conference . Who knows what else how did. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/08/mel-b-tweets-sacked-tory-minister-conor-burns-about-lift-incident

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
Just now, buctootim said:

Even his friends are admitting he was off his face on a combination of prescription drugs and alcohol. Mel B o Spice Girls also accused him of ‘something’ during the conference . Who knows what else how did. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/08/mel-b-tweets-sacked-tory-minister-conor-burns-about-lift-incident

That link doesn't work. If there's more to it than the fella in the bar, then maybe there's sense to the decision.

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
Just now, buctootim said:

That Duckhunter was wrong about Toy MPs choosing the leader and that it was democratic . Would have thought that was pretty clear 

I got bored reading all the nonsense up there tbh. Not sure what  the differing opinions, but the process is what it is and Truss was correctly chosen as per that process.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, egg said:

Cheers. She's not said what he apparently said. Non story until she stops being vague. 

True.

The BBC article makes the point (several times) that their information has come from people who were involved / had knowledge of the disciplinary process and stressed it was ONLY to do with the bloke in the bar....

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Perhaps you should read the book that explains how the Tory Party elects its leaders?

I know exactly how the Tory party elects it’s leaders. The book a few need to read is how the PM is appointed, which is the discussion we’re having. 
 

If 100 Seats with representatives that take the tory whip prior to Truss , become independents, have no confidence in Truss. She’ll remain leader of the tory party, remain leader of the party with most seats in HoC, but will not remain PM. Her remaining PM is the decision of elected representatives, not her party. 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
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Posted
1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I know exactly how the Tory party elects it’s leaders. The book a few need to read is how the PM is appointed, which is the discussion we’re having. 
 

If 100 Seats with representatives that take the tory whip prior to Truss , become independents, have no confidence in Truss. She’ll remain leader of the tory party, remain leader of the party with most seats in HoC, but will not remain PM. Her remaining PM is the decision of elected representatives, not her party. 

If a load of fairy story bollocks happens then I am proven right.

You're acting like the rest of us don't know exactly how Prime Ministers are elected.

We know. We all fucking know.

Stop acting like a chump and just accept that you are full of shit.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I know exactly how the Tory party elects it’s leaders. The book a few need to read is how the PM is appointed, which is the discussion we’re having. 
 

If 100 Seats with representatives that take the tory whip prior to Truss , become independents, have no confidence in Truss. She’ll remain leader of the tory party, remain leader of the party with most seats in HoC, but will not remain PM. Her remaining PM is the decision of elected representatives, not her party. 

The current Prime Minister was elected by Tory Party members after a selection process in which MP’s voted in a process that gave the party members a choice of 2 candidates. To say that the PM was chosen by MPs is incorrect. The country did not vote for Truss and she has no mandate. There is absolutely nothing remotely Democratic about this process. If a Tory Party leader stood on her manifesto at a general election it is more than likely they they would not get elected. We should have an election and let the people decide if they want this party with their undemocratically elected leader to continue in no 10.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why bother debating whether Truss' policies were part of an election manifesto. Most things Governments do were never in a manifesto, and many things in a manifesto never get done.

As for 'electing' the PM, nobody does it. The Post of Prime Minister is awarded on the prerogative of the Monarch; usually this happens after a GE when,with the assistance of the Privy Council, the Monarch asks the MP most likely to command a majority in the Commons if he/she wishes to attempt to form a Government. If there is no clear majority, as with Cameron's first term, it will come down to who is likely to form a majority coalition - as leader of the largest party DC was asked, however it would equally have been possible for the Labour leader to try.

If a PM leaves office during his/her term, the process of selecting a successor follows the same process; logically the successor within the majority party will get the request. How each party chooses it's leader in The House is entirely up to it, they can draw straws or play Rock Paper Scissors if they so wish.

Edited by badgerx16
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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Why bother debating whether Truss' policies were part of an election manifesto. Most things Governments do were never in a manifesto, and many things in a manifesto never get done.

As for 'electing' the PM, nobody does it. The Post of Prime Minister is awarded on the prerogative of the Monarch; usually this happens after a GE when,with the assistance of the Privy Council, the Monarch asks the MP most likely to command a majority in the Commons if he/she wishes to attempt to form a Government. If there is no clear majority, as with Cameron's first term, it will come down to who is likely to form a majority coalition - as leader of the largest party DC was asked, however it would equally have been possible for the Labour leader to try.

If a PM leaves office during his/her term, the process of selecting a successor follows the same process; logically the successor within the majority party will get the request. How each party chooses it's leader in The House is entirely up to it, they can draw straws or play Rock Paper Scissors if they so wish.

No wonder they feel they can serve this shit up with this type of view. 
And no need for academic analysis- I get it. It is plain wrong but hey who cares as other manifesto promises haven’t been kept.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, whelk said:

No wonder they feel they can serve this shit up with this type of view. 
And no need for academic analysis- I get it. It is plain wrong but hey who cares as other manifesto promises haven’t been kept.

I don't disagree with you, but that is how it works. There is a lot of misunderstanding about Parliamentary procedures, and some of them could certainly do with bringing up to date, or even 'democratising'. But if we are going to persist with the anachronistic FPTP, why try to modernise elsewhere ?

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, trousers said:

For carrying out Truss's policies...

How on Earth can she survive this? 

Hard to see as everything that underpinned her campaign are going. Maybe only NI reversal to stand. Good luck defending your position Liz

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted

I can't see Truss surviving from here.

You only need 50-100 or so Conservative MPs to stand together to say that she does not have their confidence and she will have to go.

I imagine she will get "visits" from senior Tories today telling her to jack it in or be forced out.

This is not Michael Gove's first rodeo. Ditto loads of others. There are about two cabinets worth of Tory grandees on the back benches. And plenty of them did not vote for Truss in the first place.

Kwasi might as well car-bomb the whole operation by three o'clock today. Just start blabbing.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Kwarteng is a sopping wet lily livered Pinko member of the anti growth coalition. 

Yeah been sacked for enacting the plan on which Truss ran for the leadership. Doing exactly as he was told. Have more respect for her if she kept him even though he is an arrogant cunt. Shameless 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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Posted
4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I can't see Truss surviving from here.

You only need 50-100 or so Conservative MPs to stand together to say that she does not have their confidence and she will have to go.

I imagine she will get "visits" from senior Tories today telling her to jack it in or be forced out.

This is not Michael Gove's first rodeo. Ditto loads of others. There are about two cabinets worth of Tory grandees on the back benches. And plenty of them did not vote for Truss in the first place.

Kwasi might as well car-bomb the whole operation by three o'clock today. Just start blabbing.

 

Something like this, I think 

 

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