Well, it definitely won't be Suella Braverman and the rebirth of the Conservative Party

[whelk]

And credit to LauraK - good questioning

[Tamesaint]

Condescension and evasion were the hallmarks of that interview.

Watch her eyelids when she talks. When she is under pressure // telling lies she doesn't stop blinking. Better than a lie detector.

[whelk]

 

[AlexLaw76]

The economic situation must be bad enough to not need to lie/publish lies?

[sadoldgit]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The economic situation must be bad enough to not need to lie/publish lies?

Did you read all of the replies or just the ones that suit your agenda? Another person said they had been quoted 9.4%. Clearly the offers depend on individual circumstances but whichever way you cut it, the rises are financially crippling. And why lie? It’s pretty obvious that people will check her claim. Perhaps you should just read books instead of spending all day on Twitter looking for things to post on here? Or get a job.

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Did you read all of the replies or just the ones that suit your agenda? Another person said they had been quoted 9.4%. Clearly the offers depend on individual circumstances but whichever way you cut it, the rises are financially crippling. And why lie? It’s pretty obvious that people will check her claim. Perhaps you should just read books instead of spending all day on Twitter looking for things to post on here? Or get a job.

The claim was 10%+ in her instance, which is a lie.  And it is still being pushed/published

 

Edited 2 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The claim was 10%+ in her instance, which is a lie.  And it is still being pushed/published

 

And you still insist that you are not Delldays/Batman, which is a lie.

Out of interest, do you have any evidence that she is lying apart from a load of posts from people like you on a dodgy social media platform?

Edited 2 October, 2022 by sadoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

20 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

And you still insist that you are not Delldays/Batman, which is a lie.

Out of interest, do you have any evidence that she is lying apart from a load of posts from people like you on a dodgy social media platform?

https://www.forbes.com/uk/advisor/mortgages/first-time-buyers/

Plus, it was discovered she was dealing with Skipton Mortgages, who have since publicly stated they do not have 10.5% mortgages products and have not for many many years.

Even with a 95% LTV, there are countless products available to both first time buyers and those remortgaging, all below 5-6%

Edited 2 October, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

And you still insist that you are not Delldays/Batman, which is a lie.

Out of interest, do you have any evidence that she is lying apart from a load of posts from people like you on a dodgy social media platform?

As a serial liar and racist I don’t think you’re in a position to be throwing stones old man

[whelk]

Do you pricks derail every thread?

[egg]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Did you read all of the replies or just the ones that suit your agenda? Another person said they had been quoted 9.4%. Clearly the offers depend on individual circumstances but whichever way you cut it, the rises are financially crippling. And why lie? It’s pretty obvious that people will check her claim. Perhaps you should just read books instead of spending all day on Twitter looking for things to post on here? Or get a job.

Ffs SOG, you're doing this on multiple threads. Have an opinion on the subject by all means, but the personal stuff is pathetic. Give it a rest. 

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you pricks derail every thread?

 

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Ffs SOG, you're doing this on multiple threads. Have an opinion on the subject by all means, but the personal stuff is pathetic. Give it a rest. 

Which one is Curly, which is Larry, and which is Moe ?

Edited 2 October, 2022 by badgerx16

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

Ffs SOG, you're doing this on multiple threads. Have an opinion on the subject by all means, but the personal stuff is pathetic. Give it a rest. 

It’s quite amazing how someone who is only able to post 3 times a day can consistently be such an absolute twat

[badgerx16]

Sunday morning, Truss stands foresquare behind the removal of the 45% tax rate. Monday morning, less than 24 hours later, Kwarteng announces that it has been "too much of a distraction", and stops it.

As U turns go, this one has been impressively qquick.

( Perhaps it has more to do with Gove inferring he would vote against the change, and increasing numbers of MPs, who did not support Truss as leader of the party, lining up behind him ).

Edited 3 October, 2022 by badgerx16

[farawaysaint]

The papers and Twitter today are good fun, not hard to spot who would have benefited from the top rate cut 😂

[whelk]

I spoke with someone who is incredibly wealthy at the weekend. He was staggered that they even considered it and whilst would benefit favourably said completely wrong for them to to introduce. A very small sample of course but don’t think the super wealthy were even lobbying for this

[badgerx16]

Tory party Chairman on LBC:

"People know that when their bills arrive, they can either cut their consumption or they can get a higher salary, higher wages, go out there and get that new job,”

 

Prat.

[whelk]

9 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Tory party Chairman on LBC:

"People know that when their bills arrive, they can either cut their consumption or they can get a higher salary, higher wages, go out there and get that new job,”

 

Prat.

Jake Berry seems another one over promoted and out of depth.  Referred to hedge fund managers as those that generate wealth and sustain the country and to be applauded. Yeah let’s all clap the hedge fund managers 

[Lord Duckhunter]

So it starts..l..

 

As Peter Hitchens says “the biggest obstacle to conservative policies is The Conservative party. The MP’s masquerading as Tories wet their pants the first sign of any flak.
 

The 45p rate was a political manoeuvre by Gordon Brown brought in during the dying days of his administration (then 50p), and what have the clowns done? Fallen for it, that’s  what. Why take the political hit & then row back (although it should have gone years ago). They’re stuck with it now, an incoherent tax band that raises fuck all in the grand scheme of things. They’d be better off raising the 40p rate to 45p, then raising the thresholds in-line. Yet again they talk the talk but fail to walk the walk. They’re now dead ducks & the Lib/dems amongst them will smell blood. 
 

 

Edited 3 October, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Tamesaint]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

Jake Berry seems another one over promoted and out of depth.  Referred to hedge fund managers as those that generate wealth and sustain the country and to be applauded. Yeah let’s all clap the hedge fund managers 

MP for Rossendale and Darwen you have to hope that Berry will not be returned when the red wall gets rebuilt. Then he can find himself a new job.

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So it starts..l..

 

As Peter Hitchens says “the biggest obstacle to conservative policies is The Conservative party. The MP’s masquerading as Tories wet their pants the first sign of any flak.
 

The 45p rate was a political manoeuvre by Gordon Brown brought in during the dying days of his administration, and what have the clowns done? Fallen for it, that’s  what. Why take the political hit & then row back (although it should have gone years ago). They’re stuck with it now, an incoherent tax band that raises fuck all in the grand scheme of things. They’d be better off raising the 40p rate to 45p, then raising the thresholds in-line. Yet again they talk the talk but fail to walk the walk. They’re now dead ducks & the Lib/dems amongst them will smell blood. 
 

 

Lol - incoherent maybe if you are a bit thick. Fucking simple for most to understand

[Tamesaint]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So it starts..l..

 

As Peter Hitchens says “the biggest obstacle to conservative policies is The Conservative party. The MP’s masquerading as Tories wet their pants the first sign of any flak.
 

Typical Ducky bollocks.

The only reason why what you consider to be conservative policies are not adopted is because , despite the urgings of the Mail and Express, the people of this country don't want them. For all his failings Johnson recognised this but Truss is too ideologically blind to recognise it.

Any idea of where the £15 billion plus of public spending cuts are going to be found?

 

 

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

Typical Ducky bollocks.

The only reason why what you consider to be conservative policies are not adopted is because , despite the urgings of the Mail and Express, the people of this country don't want them. For all his failings Johnson recognised this but Truss is too ideologically blind to recognise it.

Any idea of where the £15 billion plus of public spending cuts are going to be found?

 

 

And polls have shown only 6% of electorate support tax cuts at expense of public service cuts. Toxic to voters. Bring on the election.

Few subservient working class twats like LD won’t save them. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

“In the long run you have got to keep your tax rates internationally competitive, which means something like the two rates we used to have."

 

Alister Darling…..

[egg]

41 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Tory party Chairman on LBC:

"People know that when their bills arrive, they can either cut their consumption or they can get a higher salary, higher wages, go out there and get that new job,”

 

Prat.

Wow. Yeah, it's that easy! So an assumption that everyone has a better paid job within their capabilities, and that it's available. What's his advice for people who are at their ceiling? Turn the lights/heating off by the sounds of it.  

[Tamesaint]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Wow. Yeah, it's that easy! So an assumption that everyone has a better paid job within their capabilities, and that it's available. What's his advice for people who are at their ceiling? Turn the lights/heating off by the sounds of it.  

What happens to public services when nurses, healthcare professionals, binmen etc (ie the people who 2 years ago were labelled as public heroes) all bugger off to the "higher paid jobs"?

[saint1977]

6 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

What happens to public services when nurses, healthcare professionals, binmen etc (ie the people who 2 years ago were labelled as public heroes) all bugger off to the "higher paid jobs"?

Delivery drivers, store workers as well. Party of blue collar workers my arse. They couldn’t win a GE on this mandate for 35 years so done it by stealth via the swivels anyway. First and probably last time I’ll type this but well done Michael Gove yesterday. Jake Berry will be dust come the next GE and all of these quotes are just further nails in the coffin that will be wheeled out for years to come. Becoming puppets to Minford and Redwood is proving very painful for Truss and Kwarteng. If they cared about city traders and hedge fund managers do much, why inflict a damaging and disruptive hard Brexit on them?

Tory party doesn’t know what it is - it’s like Blair stepping down and electing Corbyn in 2007 as PM.

[whelk]

29 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Delivery drivers, store workers as well. Party of blue collar workers my arse. They couldn’t win a GE on this mandate for 35 years so done it by stealth via the swivels anyway. First and probably last time I’ll type this but well done Michael Gove yesterday. Jake Berry will be dust come the next GE and all of these quotes are just further nails in the coffin that will be wheeled out for years to come. Becoming puppets to Minford and Redwood is proving very painful for Truss and Kwarteng. If they cared about city traders and hedge fund managers do much, why inflict a damaging and disruptive hard Brexit on them?

Tory party doesn’t know what it is - it’s like Blair stepping down and electing Corbyn in 2007 as PM.

Even Dorries is talking sense saying no mandate. And she’s mental!

[hypochondriac]

The Tory party have been rubbbish for ages. The only reason they've been in power for so long is because Labour was worse. It looks like that is no longer the case and remarkably Keir Starmer looks like he will be the next prime minister which is mad really and highlights what a deficit of talent we have in politics in this country. Truss was Early Years minister eight years ago and if you asked anyone from Early Years, in a sea of mediocrity she was comfortably the worst in the last twenty years so I have always had low expectations from her. Boris got a massive majority and did precisely nothing with it. The Tories have wasted their time in office, doing nothing of note with the power they have and they deserve to lose the next election. Their time in office has been a massive disappointment both to their supporters and detractors. Lets just hope that the likes of Lammy, Jess Philips and Naz Shah don't ruin whatever they have responsibility over too much. 

Edited 3 October, 2022 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Sunday morning, Truss stands foresquare behind the removal of the 45% tax rate. Monday morning, less than 24 hours later, Kwarteng announces that it has been "too much of a distraction", and stops it.

As U turns go, this one has been impressively qquick.

( Perhaps it has more to do with Gove inferring he would vote against the change, and increasing numbers of MPs, who did not support Truss as leader of the party, lining up behind him ).

Are you certain it was Kwarteng that announced it?

[rallyboy]

It's a good day to quietly slip through that you've appointed Jacob Rees Mogg's hedgefund business partner to a senior government role, and chucked in a free peerage for him too.

Seems fair and reasonable compared with the rest of the blatant corruption sloshing around this government's ankles.

The minister for slavery even took a long drawn out detour route to conference via protesters, presumably to see if he could generate some distraction sympathy PR.

It didn't work.

 

 

 

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you certain it was Kwarteng that announced it?

BBC Breakfast this morning. ( AFAIK )

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

BBC Breakfast this morning. ( AFAIK )

Have they checked it was actually him and not some other black guy with a suit and tie?  Maybe ask the Mirror for confirmation?

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Have they checked it was actually him and not some other black guy with a suit and tie?  Maybe ask the Mirror for confirmation?

If it had been on the radio it might have been harder to be certain.

[ecuk268]

22 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Have they checked it was actually him and not some other black guy with a suit and tie?  Maybe ask the Mirror for confirmation?

He was later quoted as saying that the Prime Minister decided to reverse it. 

Probably a bit of revenge for Truss trying to distance herself by saying that it was his decision to abolish it.

[whelk]

50 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Have they checked it was actually him and not some other black guy with a suit and tie?  Maybe ask the Mirror for confirmation?

Bless. That’s all you have got?

[moonraker]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

“In the long run you have got to keep your tax rates internationally competitive, which means something like the two rates we used to have."

 

Alister Darling…..

With the UK personal tax burden 17th out of 27 European countries with the 45% many would conclude we are competitive.  Its also interesting that all the countries with higher tax rates have better per capita GDP than the UK so somewhat unusually both you and Alister Darling may be wrong.

[Weston Super Saint]

12 minutes ago, moonraker said:

With the UK personal tax burden 17th out of 27 European countries with the 45% many would conclude we are competitive.  Its also interesting that all the countries with higher tax rates have better per capita GDP than the UK so somewhat unusually both you and Alister Darling may be wrong.

Is that not a little disingenuous given that it only shows the maximum tax rate (in some cases that includes the 'employers' rate as well as 'employees').

You could compare that to the UK whereby :

Quote

For earnings between £100,000 - £125,000 employees pay the 40% higher rate tax + removal of tax free personal allowance + 2% NI (effectively 67%)

Source

[moonraker]

24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is that not a little disingenuous given that it only shows the maximum tax rate (in some cases that includes the 'employers' rate as well as 'employees').

You could compare that to the UK whereby :

Source

I was responding to Duckies specific point, our Tax rates are competitive even with a top rate of 45%.  Most European countries have additional "Taxes" similar to our NI as your source shows. I also looked at a listing that looked at all personal forms of "Tax" and the table was essentially the same the UK is not close to being the highest taxed. It is interesting that the lowest taxed countries are also the poorer ones.  One of the issues is that comparing different tax jurisdictions is like comparing apples and pears.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, moonraker said:

I was responding to Duckies specific point, our Tax rates are competitive even with a top rate of 45%.  Most European countries have additional "Taxes" similar to our NI as your source shows. I also looked at a listing that looked at all personal forms of "Tax" and the table was essentially the same the UK is not close to being the highest taxed. It is interesting that the lowest taxed countries are also the poorer ones.  One of the issues is that comparing different tax jurisdictions is like comparing apples and pears.

The point Darling was making was we need 2 tax bands not 3. BR & then a higher rate, the specific rates are arguable and changeable depending on circumstances. If 3 tax rates solved anything Labour wouldn’t have waited until their last month in office to bring it in.
 

If you read the whole of my post you’ll see I even suggested the top rate could be 45p. The scandal is more and more people are paying 40p, due to fiscal drag. My snap dragon and many of her NHS colleagues have been caught in it, yes they earn good money, but they’re in jobs that never would have attracted a higher tax rate 20 years ago. 

[Tamesaint]

4 hours ago, rallyboy said:

It's a good day to quietly slip through that you've appointed Jacob Rees Mogg's hedgefund business partner to a senior government role, and chucked in a free peerage for him too

 

 

He may have got his peerage for free.... but he has donated over £300k to the Tories in the past.

You don't honestly think that he would have received a peerage without some form of payment do you? 

[moonraker]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The point Darling was making was we need 2 tax bands not 3. BR & then a higher rate, the specific rates are arguable and changeable depending on circumstances. If 3 tax rates solved anything Labour wouldn’t have waited until their last month in office to bring it in.
 

If you read the whole of my post you’ll see I even suggested the top rate could be 45p. The scandal is more and more people are paying 40p, due to fiscal drag. My snap dragon and many of her NHS colleagues have been caught in it, yes they earn good money, but they’re in jobs that never would have attracted a higher tax rate 20 years ago. 

Duckie for once I agree, 2 bands should be sufficient, and the 40% thread hold needs to be raised significantly.  My point was we are not a high tax country compared to comparable countries.

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, moonraker said:

Duckie for once I agree, 2 bands should be sufficient, and the 40% thread hold needs to be raised significantly.  My point was we are not a high tax country compared to comparable countries.

Headline tax rates are a massive con. There is nothing like the differential people pretend when you factor in real rates and pension relief for earnings above the £12,570 tax free threshhold. Whilst higher tax kicks in at £50,270 most of the higher rate is negated by a reduction in NI from 13.5% to only 3.25%. So the real tax rates are 33.5% (20% tax + 13.5% NI) for earnings up to £50,270 and 43.25% (40% tax and 3.25% NI) over £50,270 up to £150k. Then when you factor in the fact the bod on over £50,270 gets pension tax relief (ie free money) at 40% but the bloke on less than £50,270 only gets 20% then the real tax rates are nearly identical.     

NI rates should be the same all the way up the scale, as should pension tax relief. Then you wouldnt even need a 45% tax rate 

Edited 3 October, 2022 by buctootim

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, moonraker said:

Duckie for once I agree, 2 bands should be sufficient, and the 40% thread hold needs to be raised significantly.  My point was we are not a high tax country compared to comparable countries.

Comparing international tax rates is very difficult. Every country has its own reliefs and allowances which make a like for like meaningful comparison almost impossible. In addition to Ducky's call for a reduced number of income tax rates there needs to be a simplification of reliefs and allowances. eg. As Weston points out the marginal rate of income tax for people earning between £100k and £125k is over 60%.  Madness!  eg. Look at pension tax relief and the rules around it if you have difficulty sleeping at night.  

We are not unique in our reliefs and allowances. One of the weirdest that I heard about came from Denmark where you  could get tax relief if you claimed that your garden is really a farm or smallholding!!

It is not just our income tax that is overly complicated. Take a look if you dare at our Inheritance Tax reliefs. Mad as a box of frogs!! Capital Gains Tax is also an area where in the UK we get off lightly compared with other countries.

I agree with Moonraker - overall we are not a highly taxed country when compared with other countries.

 

[Tamesaint]

11 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Headline tax rates are a massive con. There is nothing like the differential people pretend when you factor in real rates and pension relief for earnings above the £12,570 tax free threshhold. Whilst higher tax kicks in at £50,270 most of the higher rate is negated by a reduction in NI from 13.5% to only 3.25%. So the real tax rates are 33.5% (20% tax + 13.5% NI) for earnings up to £50,270 and 43.25% (40% tax and 3.25% NI) over £50,270 up to £150k. Then when you factor in the fact the bod on over £50,270 gets pension tax relief (ie free money) at 40% but the bloke on less than £50,270 only gets 20% then the real tax rates are nearly identical.     

NI rates should be the same all the way up the scale, as should pension tax relief. Then you wouldnt even need a 45% tax rate 

I agree with you - but don't forget that bods earning over £100k start to lose their personal allowance for every £ that they earn. Penal for anyone earning between £100k and £125k.

[farawaysaint]

Christ almighty you people know a lot about tax. 

[Tamesaint]

1 minute ago, farawaysaint said:

Christ almighty you people know a lot about tax. 

Not as much as I would like.😀

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Tamesaint said:

Not as much as I would like.😀

Ha me too. Ive made bad choices in retrospect!  

[sadoldgit]

I don’t see a problem with 3 tax bands, basic, one for high earners and one for the super high earners. The thresholds for the bands, certainly the first two, need to be increased. As for the super earners, I wonder how many of them pay what they are supposed to here? I imagine their money is squirrelled away in off shore accounts. As someone said in a phone in the other day, the trickle down economy is a myth. It is a trickle up economy. Working people spend their money. The rich use it to make more or sit on it.

[ecuk268]

Still trying to blame today’s problems on the last Labour government, Kwarteng said the Conservatives had reversed a “story of national decline”. But then said his policies were necessary because, after 12 years of Tory rule, “the path ahead of us was one of slow, managed decline”.

Which is it?