Autism and ADHD in young people

[Turkish]

Having been involved in kids football now 3 years i am staggered at the amount of children that have one or both of these conditions. Of our team of 14 boys at U11s 3 have one of the two, one has both, in my sons class of 10 and 11 year old i would estimated about 15-20% of the kids in his year have one or the other.

I'm no expert on this at all im a dad with a football coaching badge but there must be some explanation for this. 35 years ago when i was that age i barely remember anyone even hearing about these conditions. I must say that two of the boys in our team are generally fine but one is an absolute nightmare. 

A couple of explanations from people who know better than me (a teacher and football coach at a professional club) have views that some of it is down to too much sugar in childrens diet coupled with a lack of activity. We all know how wired some kids can be after a bag of sweets so they think that if the child has a propensity to be wired that way if they are sitting on an xbox all evening and weekend, drinking full sugar drinks, eating pizzas for tea and constantly filling up on sweets then it's no wonder their brains are at 10000 mph all the time as they are never burn it off. The football coach made the point that cases of this in kids that are active and fit are generally a lot lower.

Anyway, be interested to get some thoughts and experiences. I about to do a training session on it run by the local FA to help try and understand it a bit better, possibly not the best source of information but maybe will help on a weekend at football

Edited January 23 by Turkish

[Picard]

45 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Having been involved in kids football now 3 years i am staggered at the amount of children that have one or both of these conditions. Of our team of 14 boys at U11s 3 have one of the two, one has both, in my sons class of 10 and 11 year old i would estimated about 15-20% of the kids in his year have one or the other.

I'm no expert on this at all im a dad with a football coaching badge but there must be some explanation for this. 35 years ago when i was that age i barely remember anyone even hearing about these conditions. I must say that two of the boys in our team are generally fine but one is an absolute nightmare. 

A couple of explanations from people who know better than me (a teacher and football coach at a professional club) have views that some of it is down to too much sugar in childrens diet coupled with a lack of activity. We all know how wired some kids can be after a bag of sweets so they think that if the child has a propensity to be wired that way if they are sitting on an xbox all evening and weekend, drinking full sugar drinks, eating pizzas for tea and constantly filling up on sweets then it's no wonder their brains are at 10000 mph all the time as they are never burn it off. The football coach made the point that cases of this in kids that are active and fit are generally a lot lower.

Anyway, be interested to get some thoughts and experiences. I about to do a training session on it run by the local FA to help try and understand it a bit better, possibly not the best source of information but maybe will help on a weekend at football

Some unconventional thoughts on the subject.

 

 

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, Picard said:

Some unconventional thoughts on the subject.

 

 

I've not listened to it but it's an interesting point, no one gets rich from well people. No one gets rich from telling people to eat more healthily and get outside the house when a pill can be the answer.....

[Whitey Grandad]

I blame the lockdowns and the school closures.

[Turkish]

just started to listen some very valid points such as in the 80s and 90s ups and downs through adolesence was part of life and normal, now everyones being treated for chemical imbalances and being told they're at risk of long term depression.

 

Also says we are meant to be social creatures, connected to nature, eating a nutrient dense diet and we eat crap, stay in doors all the time and then when we feel down go to the doctors and they give us a pill. I completely agree with this.

Edited January 23 by Turkish

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I blame the lockdowns and the school closures.

social media has something to do with it too.

[Winnersaint]

 

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

 

A couple of explanations from people who know better than me (a teacher and football coach at a professional club) have views that some of it is down to too much sugar in childrens diet coupled with a lack of activity. We all know how wired some kids can be after a bag of sweets so they think that if the child has a propensity to be wired that way if they are sitting on an xbox all evening and weekend, drinking full sugar drinks, eating pizzas for tea and constantly filling up on sweets then it's no wonder their brains are at 10000 mph all the time as they are never burn it off. The football coach made the point that cases of this in kids that are active and fit are generally a lot lower.

Our education system has got a lot to answer for. PE lessons are time crunched to fit in the rest of the curriculum. It is a taught lesson to a far higher degree than in the past, so less time is probably spent running around letting off steam.  Lunch breaks are shortened giving little or no time to do more than eat, (25 mins not unusual). Just discussed this over a coffee with my neighbour. I was in secondary school in Hampshire at the end of the 60s into the 70s, he in Wigan in the early 90s. The similarities between our school days out of the classroom given the time and geographical differences were striking. Get to school, get a football match going, maybe for at least half an hour, carry on at break (25 mins not unusual) possibly not even starting a new game, continued on for around 50 minutes at lunch and then add into the mix more PE lessons walking/ cycling to school etc. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I blame the lockdowns and the school closures.

Expand on that, because I think it's a big red herring.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

social media has something to do with it too.

My 13 year old is addicted to his phone, it's the only thing we argue about.

I have a kid with ADHD in my team, he's hard work at times, he's a nice kid and trys to be good but can't help himself. Had an autistic lad for a bit when the team were younger but as the team grew up he got passed to less and less, that didn't help his anxiety and he eventually gave up football.

Someone I play football with runs an assisted team and before lock down I used to help make up the numbers on the training games. There is a real mix bag of characters and the banter they had with each other was great

[The Kraken]

Way back in the late 1990s I did a couple of summers teaching golf at a kids academy in America. Basically you’d have 3 instructors to 12 kids, so 4 each, and you’d look after them from 9 until 3.30 ferrying them by minibus to a golf range and a local course. I was amazed then at the amount of times I was given ADHD medication for the kids, which I had to ensure they took at lunchtime. Ritalin was the big one for ADHD, and for some of them it just seemed to put them into a mini coma; perfectly happy kids who took a pill then immediately zonked out. I can’t really remember any of them being trouble or anything like that, it was genuinely quite disturbing to see how readily these kids were given knockout drugs.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

My 13 year old is addicted to his phone, it's the only thing we argue about.

I have a kid with ADHD in my team, he's hard work at times, he's a nice kid and trys to be good but can't help himself. Had an autistic lad for a bit when the team were younger but as the team grew up he got passed to less and less, that didn't help his anxiety and he eventually gave up football.

Someone I play football with runs an assisted team and before lock down I used to help make up the numbers on the training games. There is a real mix bag of characters and the banter they had with each other was great

As i mentioned in the OP we have 3 kids with issues. Two are okay but one is an absolute nightmare. He got kicked out of another team for his behaviour so we took him. He's been a problem since the start, squared up to another kid on his first training session, causes problems every week, if he cant or doesn't want to do something he'll just boot the ball away or refuse to do it. Things came to a head before christmas. I was referee for a game and he made a couple of bad tackles that looked deliberate, in hindsight i should have subbed him off then but gave him a chance, in the end he ended up kicking the oppostion goalkeeper in the back whilst his back was turned, badly hurting him then gobbing off at the parents on the sideline. He was instantly taken off and started screaming at the other coach he hated him and that he hated the team and we said his game is done he wont be coming back on. The other team made a complaint and much to my amazement the kids parents blamed us saying he had been terribly treated and we had not dealt with it very well and he was the victim in all this. Another parent told me it's the same at school, whenever he plays up it's not his fault its the other kids or the teachers dont know how to deal with him.

to me this isn't a kid with a condition, this is a kid who's never had any discipline and it always allowed to do what he wants backed up by his parents who see nothing wrong in anything he does. Honestly if mine ever acted in anyway like that i'd be ashamed of them and come down on them like a ton of bricks. You wonder why they cant see it.

[whelk]

I think each case needs to be taken individually. Lots of parents of autistic kids get really frustrated when their child is seen as naughty, no discipline etc. Their brains work differently in processing sensory information and can lead to behaviour that we don’t tolerate as a society. Problem is there isn’t an easy solution to just integrate as they have special needs and sometimes they cannot be met in mainstream education or sports. Autistic brain likes order and sports are chaotic so often not a good fit.

[egg]

Interesting topic. One of my kids was diagnosed in her late teens with ADHD. She's always been a handful - disruptive, chaotic/disorganised, impulsive, aggressive, lacking focus, and many other things that. Schools just ruled her a naughty kid and things got worse for her, and us. When she was diagnosed it became an eye opener that her behaviour was never through choice, and as the consultant succinctly put it, she behaved as she did cos she was bored.

What caused it? Nothing. It's neither caused, caught, bought or stolen. It's something that just happens. The trick is spotting it and addressing it. 

Had we known what it could have been and/or the school identified it, her life will have been very different. I'm glad there's more awareness now and kids are getting the help early. That for me is the simple reason for a spike in numbers - awareness and action. The reduction in stigma also helps. 

It's not just kids. I know of many adults diagnosed with autism and ADHD in recent years. They'd all previously been diagnosed with other conditions - ADHD has very similar traits with both types of BPD and there's often misdiagnosis (my daughter being a case in point). 

As to football. Whelk hit the nail on the head. I couldn't think of a worse sport for a kid with ADHD or autism. Trampolining, gymnastics, boxing or swimming are more structured, and in my experience are sports where kids with neuro divergence can have an outlet and a chance to succeed. 

Whitey's point is spot on too. Lock down took structure away from these kids, and increased boredom. Their parents spent more time with them, and the environment will have made their ADHD and autism more obvious. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Having been involved in kids football now 3 years i am staggered at the amount of children that have one or both of these conditions. Of our team of 14 boys at U11s 3 have one of the two, one has both, in my sons class of 10 and 11 year old i would estimated about 15-20% of the kids in his year have one or the other.

I'm no expert on this at all im a dad with a football coaching badge but there must be some explanation for this. 35 years ago when i was that age i barely remember anyone even hearing about these conditions. I must say that two of the boys in our team are generally fine but one is an absolute nightmare. 

A couple of explanations from people who know better than me (a teacher and football coach at a professional club) have views that some of it is down to too much sugar in childrens diet coupled with a lack of activity. We all know how wired some kids can be after a bag of sweets so they think that if the child has a propensity to be wired that way if they are sitting on an xbox all evening and weekend, drinking full sugar drinks, eating pizzas for tea and constantly filling up on sweets then it's no wonder their brains are at 10000 mph all the time as they are never burn it off. The football coach made the point that cases of this in kids that are active and fit are generally a lot lower.

Anyway, be interested to get some thoughts and experiences. I about to do a training session on it run by the local FA to help try and understand it a bit better, possibly not the best source of information but maybe will help on a weekend at football

Thr point about diet must surely have something to do with it. I work down the road from a school (and not far from a McDonalds). Before school, during lunch and after school I find it staggering how many of them are drinking energy drinks / eating junk / vaping.

Why do children need so much sugar/caffeine in their life?

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Thr point about diet must surely have something to do with it. I work down the road from a school (and not far from a McDonalds). Before school, during lunch and after school I find it staggering how many of them are drinking energy drinks / eating junk / vaping.

Why do children need so much sugar/caffeine in their life?

You're confusing a kid hyped up by caffeine and sugar with a kid with ADHD. 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

You're confusing a kid hyped up by caffeine and sugar with a kid with ADHD. 

Perhaps, but whilst I fully understand correlation is not causation, I bet there is a higher rate of ADHD in kids that drink Red Bull for breakfast than those who eat porridge and a banana.

Just an observation. Not trying to be an internet expert or be controversial.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Interesting topic. One of my kids was diagnosed in her late teens with ADHD. She's always been a handful - disruptive, chaotic/disorganised, impulsive, aggressive, lacking focus, and many other things that. Schools just ruled her a naughty kid and things got worse for her, and us. When she was diagnosed it became an eye opener that her behaviour was never through choice, and as the consultant succinctly put it, she behaved as she did cos she was bored.

What caused it? Nothing. It's neither caused, caught, bought or stolen. It's something that just happens. The trick is spotting it and addressing it. 

Had we known what it could have been and/or the school identified it, her life will have been very different. I'm glad there's more awareness now and kids are getting the help early. That for me is the simple reason for a spike in numbers - awareness and action. The reduction in stigma also helps. 

It's not just kids. I know of many adults diagnosed with autism and ADHD in recent years. They'd all previously been diagnosed with other conditions - ADHD has very similar traits with both types of BPD and there's often misdiagnosis (my daughter being a case in point). 

As to football. Whelk hit the nail on the head. I couldn't think of a worse sport for a kid with ADHD or autism. Trampolining, gymnastics, boxing or swimming are more structured, and in my experience are sports where kids with neuro divergence can have an outlet and a chance to succeed. 

Whitey's point is spot on too. Lock down took structure away from these kids, and increased boredom. Their parents spent more time with them, and the environment will have made their ADHD and autism more obvious. 

It’s which a difficult and sensitive topic. Like a lot of these things there will be some genuine cases and there will be some who use it to excuse bad behaviour, lack of discipline at home whatever. 
 

I watched listened to that video that was linked above during work today and the guy does make some very valid points, such as about anxiety. Again I’m not belittling it as there will be some very bad genuine cases, people that can’t leave the house due to it etc but for most people anxiety and nerves are part of life and growing up, everyone experiences it but now it seems to be normal for a lot of people who feel normal emotions like this to go to a doctor and be given a label. My niece is 16 and currently supposedly suffering from anxiety but when you actually speak to her it appears to me that it’s just the usual 16 year old issues of struggling with homework at sixth form, just starting a Saturday job and the usual insecurities teenage kids have but we’re bringing up a generation of kids who seem to be unable to cope with even a minimal amount of pressure 

 

next week will Be interesting as I’m genuinely interested to learn more about it all as I do tend to have a more traditional approach to discipline and stress. 

[Winnersaint]

When I started teaching in 1980 it was unheard of. Gradually through a 40+ year career it became a thing. Partly through my role working in academic inclusion it became more evident after 2000. This coincided with greater awareness of ASD/ADHD in schools and in society so as Egg has pointed out you’d expect a spike. What I do find interesting is the whole loss of structure idea through lockdown. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that neuro-diverse kids have found adjustment back into formal education more difficult. This is aided and abetted in some cases by one size fits all behaviour policies. These are often based on the principles outlined by Doug Lemov in Teach Like a Champion which has become omnipotent in many Charter Schools and school districts in the USA and is increasingly popping up in the UK in multi-academy trusts. The rigidity of these often means that kids that are neuro-diverse fall foul of behaviour expectations which they’d struggle to comply with anyway, negativity with school increases, attendance drops, along with achievement. Some critics say that they are draconian; for most it shouldn’t be a problem but for kids with ASD/ADHD they haven’t got a hope in hell.

 

Edited January 23 by Winnersaint

[Colinjb]

An observation I can make as a teacher. It's amazing how quickly many of the children with diagnosed ADHD can all of a sudden regulate their behaviour as soon as they are in a lesson managed by a head of year or SLT. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It’s which a difficult and sensitive topic. Like a lot of these things there will be some genuine cases and there will be some who use it to excuse bad behaviour, lack of discipline at home whatever. 
 

I watched listened to that video that was linked above during work today and the guy does make some very valid points, such as about anxiety. Again I’m not belittling it as there will be some very bad genuine cases, people that can’t leave the house due to it etc but for most people anxiety and nerves are part of life and growing up, everyone experiences it but now it seems to be normal for a lot of people who feel normal emotions like this to go to a doctor and be given a label. My niece is 16 and currently supposedly suffering from anxiety but when you actually speak to her it appears to me that it’s just the usual 16 year old issues of struggling with homework at sixth form, just starting a Saturday job and the usual insecurities teenage kids have but we’re bringing up a generation of kids who seem to be unable to cope with even a minimal amount of pressure 

 

next week will Be interesting as I’m genuinely interested to learn more about it all as I do tend to have a more traditional approach to discipline and stress. 

Some people feel that some parents are quick to want to label their kids, some others believe that parents with problematic kids want some help for them and/or their kids. Nobody wants their kid to be impacted by mental health or neuro divergence issues. 

Our youngest had the same upbringing but was an angel. That's because she was/is wired differently.

It's easy to point at the environment without appreciating that sometimes there's an underlying issue. 

Re anxiety. There's a world of difference between actual anxiety and a bit of natural worry. None of us truly know how someone else feels inside, and a brave face can be just that. 

[Whitey Grandad]

12 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Expand on that, because I think it's a big red herring.

I speak from the experience of my own grandchildren.  The lack of social interaction and opportunities to form friendships can lead to introversion. 

[buctootim]

My partner is almost certainly on the autistic spectrum and has ADD (the attention deficit without the hyperactivity). She's intelligent and high performing as a doctor but normal interaction in life wipes her out and she takes hours or days to recover. Basically a lot of people with what used to be call high functioning Aspergers are good at masking - acting normal - but find it exhausting and can only keep it up for a limited amount of time without long recovery periods.  Women are generally better at masking than men. 

Maybe its not more common now, its just more socially acceptable to 'have it' so people dont mask as much, or in the case of young kids haven't learnt how to yet. She and her sisters think their mum is 'difficult' and selfish but I think she is just the same as her daughter, but not as good at masking.  

 

 

   

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, egg said:

Some people feel that some parents are quick to want to label their kids, some others believe that parents with problematic kids want some help for them and/or their kids. Nobody wants their kid to be impacted by mental health or neuro divergence issues. 

Our youngest had the same upbringing but was an angel. That's because she was/is wired differently.

It's easy to point at the environment without appreciating that sometimes there's an underlying issue. 

Re anxiety. There's a world of difference between actual anxiety and a bit of natural worry. None of us truly know how someone else feels inside, and a brave face can be just that. 

You are of course right no one else knows what is going on in someone’s head. As i said though there are some clearly some genuine situations which must be awful for the person and those around them. But I’m not sure all the constant talk about wellness, mental health etc does are much good as people like to make out it does.

i remember when my lad was about 6 or 7 him coming home from school one day and saying he had “that thing” when we asked him about it he said you know where sometimes you feel worried about something and don’t know what to do about it so we went through a whole list of things until we got to anxiety to which he said yes that’s it, we were learning about it at school today and that’s how I feel. Of course we explained to him that feeling like this is perfectly normal and part of life but he’s never mentioned it since but why are we telling kids of that age about this sort of stuff? It seems crazy to me that telling children of this age that if they feel a certain way then it’s this condition. Tell someone or yourself something often enough then it becomes your reality. 
 

Surely we should be telling kids that a Bit of worry, stress, pressure etc is completely normal it’s life and that’s okay, in fact it’d more worrying if you never felt that and teaching them how to deal with it, to build some resilience and to think that if you do feel like this then that’s part of life rather than telling them that feeling like x it might be condition x, y, z. 
 

same goes for behavioural issues, being bored at school is normal, being high energy and not being able to sit still for hours on end and listen to stuff you really don’t care about is normal, it doesn’t mean you’ve got a condition. You hear it all the time from parents’ “ oh he behaves like this because he’s autistic”, straight away using the condition as justification. 
 

again I’m referring here to the majority of people not the minority where it is a real problem for them and a genuine condition not a label put on them or a condition someone has been convinced they have. 

[whelk]

I think I would be classified as having ADHD based of this self assessment https://add.org/adhd-test/

I know some adults have said it has been transformative being diagnosed but not sure personally what difference it would make as definitely wouldn’t go on any medication. Although could say at work you cannot expect me to write those papers as I struggle to do shit that doesn’t excite me - I jest but does make me realise what role I am best suited to.
 

[egg]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I think I would be classified as having ADHD based of this self assessment https://add.org/adhd-test/

I know some adults have said it has been transformative being diagnosed but not sure personally what difference it would make as definitely wouldn’t go on any medication. Although could say at work you cannot expect me to write those papers as I struggle to do shit that doesn’t excite me - I jest but does make me realise what role I am best suited to.
 

I'm the same. I'm in according to the online test. I don't want or need a diagnosis, ditto medication. I like the fact that I can operate at 100 miles an hour when I want or need to, and have various tabs open in my brain. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm the same. I'm in according to the online test. I don't want or need a diagnosis, ditto medication. I like the fact that I can operate at 100 miles an hour when I want or need to, and have various tabs open in my brain. 

Well put!

[egg]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

You are of course right no one else knows what is going on in someone’s head. As i said though there are some clearly some genuine situations which must be awful for the person and those around them. But I’m not sure all the constant talk about wellness, mental health etc does are much good as people like to make out it does.

i remember when my lad was about 6 or 7 him coming home from school one day and saying he had “that thing” when we asked him about it he said you know where sometimes you feel worried about something and don’t know what to do about it so we went through a whole list of things until we got to anxiety to which he said yes that’s it, we were learning about it at school today and that’s how I feel. Of course we explained to him that feeling like this is perfectly normal and part of life but he’s never mentioned it since but why are we telling kids of that age about this sort of stuff? It seems crazy to me that telling children of this age that if they feel a certain way then it’s this condition. Tell someone or yourself something often enough then it becomes your reality. 
 

Surely we should be telling kids that a Bit of worry, stress, pressure etc is completely normal it’s life and that’s okay, in fact it’d more worrying if you never felt that and teaching them how to deal with it, to build some resilience and to think that if you do feel like this then that’s part of life rather than telling them that feeling like x it might be condition x, y, z. 
 

same goes for behavioural issues, being bored at school is normal, being high energy and not being able to sit still for hours on end and listen to stuff you really don’t care about is normal, it doesn’t mean you’ve got a condition. You hear it all the time from parents’ “ oh he behaves like this because he’s autistic”, straight away using the condition as justification. 
 

again I’m referring here to the majority of people not the minority where it is a real problem for them and a genuine condition not a label put on them or a condition someone has been convinced they have. 

There's boredom, and then there's boredom in the context of someone with ADHD - 2 different things. 

As to your other points, I think it's dangerous for us to attach labels to people or dispute them. I've got an autistic nephew. For whatever reason his mum bangs on about loads, but if they've been told that he's autistic then I ain't gonna doubt that he is. 

Re anxiety. Clinical anxiety is a thing. The impact of it is horrendous. Expecting someone to be more resilient is a bit like telling someone with a broken leg to run it off. 

[badgerx16]

Sometimes they just need the right attitude from the "adults in the room"' to give them the appropriate support.

Our daughter and SiL were advised by their son's school that he might be best served, when moving up to Secondary School, by going to a special needs school due his "issues". They rejected this idea and put him up for the entrance exam for Bolton Grammar, which he has passed with flying colours.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, egg said:

There's boredom, and then there's boredom in the context of someone with ADHD - 2 different things. 

As to your other points, I think it's dangerous for us to attach labels to people or dispute them. I've got an autistic nephew. For whatever reason his mum bangs on about loads, but if they've been told that he's autistic then I ain't gonna doubt that he is. 

Re anxiety. Clinical anxiety is a thing. The impact of it is horrendous. Expecting someone to be more resilient is a bit like telling someone with a broken leg to run it off. 

Yes that’s what a made it clear I wasn’t talking about them. I was talking about the one, such as my niece, a teenage girl who has just started at sixth form, just got her first Saturday job and is a bit overwhelmed with the workload and changes. That’s life, that ain’t anxiety. That’s her out of her comfort zone and having to deal with a significant change. Yet she thinks she’s got anxiety. I’m sure it’s not just her there must be many many more like this who if it isn’t 75 degrees and sunshine in their life every day convince themselves they’ve got some sort of issue. Sadly for a lot of parents these days using a condition as an excuse for bad behaviour. The kid I mentioned earlier at football for example, what parent would see their kid deliberately kick another one whilst they’re lying in the floor and then maintain they did nothing wrong and it’s everyone elses fault regardless of if they were austistic or not?

Edited January 24 by Turkish

[pingpong]

I think there is just more awareness now. The teams probably had similar numbers of autistic and adhd in the past, they just weren't labelled or treated.  I wish I'd been diagnosed sooner, I don't think it would have changed me personally, but it would have helped others understand more.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

I think there is just more awareness now. The teams probably had similar numbers of autistic and adhd in the past, they just weren't labelled or treated.  I wish I'd been diagnosed sooner, I don't think it would have changed me personally, but it would have helped others understand more.

What is the process for diagnosis? Tell me to mind your own business if you like but im genuinely interested to know. 

[egg]

49 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What is the process for diagnosis? Tell me to mind your own business if you like but im genuinely interested to know. 

This is a great site with some info re impact of adhd, assessment, myths etc. We spent half a day with the Dr, who had previously received lots of info from us, our daughter, school reports, and some other stuff. A lot of time was spent watching and observing behaviour, as well as talking and listening. 

Impact of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder | Adult ADHD Clinic

What's striking is that the condition is usually progressive into adulthood where it can be especially problematic, hence me seeing it as a good thing that it's being picked up early. 

Edited January 24 by egg

[Fan The Flames]

What's interesting, particular with autism, is that a lot of adults are diagnosed during the process of getting a diagnosis for their child. Showing how undiagnosed these things are.

[Turkish]

As i mentioned last night i attended a session run by the local FA for football coaches to help deal with kids with needs. The guy running it was a doctor with 23 years experience in this field and is also a grass roots coach. I have to say that it was absolutely fascinating and eye opening as to the range of conditions and symptoms. 

The main points i took away were

For an autism or ADHD diagnosis a person has to display 6 out 12 behaviours/symptoms, the average person will display 2-3 of them, some people is certain employment fields such as science, working with numbers and so on will display 4

Autism is in 1% of children, kids who dont have it can often display the same characteristics of autism but it can be down to a whole range of other factors, including parental neglect as a young child. He also spoke at length about the Romanian orphanage case study where all the kids displayed autism characteristics but when they were put with a loving family the symptoms went away in many. however many had further issues in later life as the social skills werent there that you build from parents interaction.

ADHD is more prevalent, cant remember the exact figure but think it was 5%

Kids with one or both conditions can also display physical signs, like walking on tip toes and other things

He also gave us some very good tips on how to deal with kids with these conditions, which was also very interesting and a few things i've never even thought of doing. Also explains why some of the teachers do certain things with kids in class when they cause problems 

If you get the chance to attend anything like it it's a good use of a couple of hours.

[Tamesaint]

If they are not too complicated, can you share some of those tips? 

[Farmer Saint]

On 23/01/2024 at 09:25, Turkish said:

Having been involved in kids football now 3 years i am staggered at the amount of children that have one or both of these conditions. Of our team of 14 boys at U11s 3 have one of the two, one has both, in my sons class of 10 and 11 year old i would estimated about 15-20% of the kids in his year have one or the other.

I'm no expert on this at all im a dad with a football coaching badge but there must be some explanation for this. 35 years ago when i was that age i barely remember anyone even hearing about these conditions. I must say that two of the boys in our team are generally fine but one is an absolute nightmare. 

A couple of explanations from people who know better than me (a teacher and football coach at a professional club) have views that some of it is down to too much sugar in childrens diet coupled with a lack of activity. We all know how wired some kids can be after a bag of sweets so they think that if the child has a propensity to be wired that way if they are sitting on an xbox all evening and weekend, drinking full sugar drinks, eating pizzas for tea and constantly filling up on sweets then it's no wonder their brains are at 10000 mph all the time as they are never burn it off. The football coach made the point that cases of this in kids that are active and fit are generally a lot lower.

Anyway, be interested to get some thoughts and experiences. I about to do a training session on it run by the local FA to help try and understand it a bit better, possibly not the best source of information but maybe will help on a weekend at football

Personally, I think it just wasn't diagnosed as much. You had naughty kids, you had immature kids, you had shy/socially awkward kids.

I think they just give them labels now, and parents are more attentive/desperate for those labels to be added if their child is a bit one way of another, as it looks bad on their parenting if their kid is just badly behaved. 

[Turkish]

41 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

If they are not too complicated, can you share some of those tips? 

It was mainly based around coaching at football. 

Clear simple instructions

simple language, speak slowly. No slang or acronyms, like asking them to play CDM for example. Take a touch was another one,instead say something like get it under control - for most kids take a touch would mean controlling it, for a kid with Autism taking a touch could mean booting it as far away as they can, they've taken a touch and they've done what you asked but not what you meant.

Give time out warnings, for example if you're refereeing if a player starts to get wound up during a game take them to one side and ask them if they need to come off for a bit to calm down, if they say no then tell them that next time they behave like that they will be, apparently this works very well

If they're behaving impulsively give them 30 seconds, let them boot balls away charge around for a bit, be strict on the time, ie 30 seconds to do what you want, that apparently gives them enough time and space to get it out of the system

Ask them to help you demonstrate an activity to the rest of the group during a coaching session, rather than watch you do it. 

Select positions for them that suit their character, for example he said an Autistic kid is better off as a striker because they can be quite selfish, clear instructions, not got to think about tracking back know what they have to doetc, whereas ADHD tend to be better in midfield as they are more involved in the game and have other players in front of them or behind them for support.

Quite a few others bits too, i found it very interesting.

Edited February 1 by Turkish

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Personally, I think it just wasn't diagnosed as much. You had naughty kids, you had immature kids, you had shy/socially awkward kids.

I think they just give them labels now, and parents are more attentive/desperate for those labels to be added if their child is a bit one way of another, as it looks bad on their parenting if their kid is just badly behaved. 

Im kind of with you, As the guy said only 1% of kids are actually autistic, most people exhibit 3 of 12 traits, a bit of bad parenting, lack of discipline, too much sugar not enough exercise and you can see how you can quickly show another 2-3. For some it's a convenient excuse/label

Another thing he said which kind of contradicted the view on ADHD which was interesting was that he said and i agree, focus needs to be taught, you dont just have it. One of the main traits of ADHD is lack of attention, so it doesn't take a genius to work out if kids aren't be taught it by the parents at a young age it's no surprise when they get older they lack attention on things they aren't interested in.

[revolution saint]

On 24/01/2024 at 06:19, whelk said:

I think I would be classified as having ADHD based of this self assessment https://add.org/adhd-test/

I know some adults have said it has been transformative being diagnosed but not sure personally what difference it would make as definitely wouldn’t go on any medication. Although could say at work you cannot expect me to write those papers as I struggle to do shit that doesn’t excite me - I jest but does make me realise what role I am best suited to.
 

Got bored halfway through doing that quiz and gave up.  I'm more special than you.

[Baird of the land]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/04/some-nhs-centres-twice-as-likely-to-diagnose-adults-as-autistic-study-finds

I've thought for a while that the current rise of 'on the spectrum' thing is a pile of nonsense.

[pingpong]

10 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/04/some-nhs-centres-twice-as-likely-to-diagnose-adults-as-autistic-study-finds

I've thought for a while that the current rise of 'on the spectrum' thing is a pile of nonsense.

If you thought the exact opposite, you could have posted the same article. It's not clear if places are overdiagnosing or underdiagnosing...

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

If you thought the exact opposite, you could have posted the same article. It's not clear if places are overdiagnosing or underdiagnosing...

The fact that "diagnostic manuals are open to a lot of interpretation" really to me means the whole idea of overdiagnosing or underdiagnosing people on a spectrum is a nonsense. 

[Sheaf Saint]

5 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

The fact that "diagnostic manuals are open to a lot of interpretation" really to me means the whole idea of overdiagnosing or underdiagnosing people on a spectrum is a nonsense. 

Or alternatively it points to a large variation in the level of training/experience of the diagnosing clinicians from area to area. Which I know to be the case.

[Picard]

Summary of a book that looks into why children have mental problems.

 

 

[Turkish]

56 minutes ago, Picard said:

Summary of a book that looks into why children have mental problems.

 

 

 

The summary in the tweet is absolutely first class

A constant attention on how kids are "feeling" or "thinking" is causing negative outcomes. Constantly ruminating on your emotions and how you feel negatively impacts your mental health. If all you do is focus on your emotions, you are destined to be anxious or depressed.

We incessantly ask kids how they're feeling, if they're happy, how their mental health is, etc, and this is creating kids who think they're fragile instead of resilient.

 

You develop confidence and strong mental health by doing things, not by thinking or via therapy. You can't think your way out of anxiety. You don't gain confidence by analysis of your thoughts or mental health issues. You gain confidence and eliminate anxiety by doing gradually more difficult tasks, excelling at them, and realizing you are a competent, capable person.

 

One of the best ways to decrease your happiness is to chase it. Our society constantly tells kids they should be "happy" and asks them if they are. Happiness isn't a state you should be in 24/7. That's not realistic. Joy and bliss aren't permanent states - they are fleeting.