Will Still

[The Kraken]

Just now, Dr Who? said:

Seems to be getting more wrong than right. This is a terrible start to the season. Don’t care about any of the other title favourites and how they are doing. We are one of the richest clubs in the championship, and we do not have a core of a team! Look at our double promotion team, they were strong through the middle. Even last promotion was a little better, but not great. Need to sort it out before the window, we have the resources. 

Tbf I think today we were massively hamstrung by Downes. He was even named in the 2pm team sheet, so that’s a real blow. Charles, Jander and (if he’s here) Downes available at CM in any given week is very good for this level IMO. Add Azaz to that mix and it’s strong.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

And that’s we are is it?

What do you think that looks like or is going to look like when we're at it? 

I could be wrong but I'm not sure any of his previous clubs would say they had a particular style or look under him? I think you're hoping to see something he's not promised to show you tbh. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

I am not the only one saying it, am I?

Mate, man up. You're such moaning pussy.

[Paul_B]

If Will Still is responsible for this cluster fuck of a formation which everybody including my cat can see is utter dogshit, and he starts with it in the next game, he needs to be sacked immediately, before the players have even made it on to the pitch. If he is not responsible, he needs to mtfu and tell whoever is dictating to get fucked, and come out and tell us! I don't buy the excuse he's been pedalling, but we shall see......

[The Kraken]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

What do you think that looks like or is going to look like when we're at it? 

I could be wrong but I'm not sure any of his previous clubs would say they had a particular style or look under him? I think you're hoping to see something he's not promised to show you tbh. 

Thats the point, I don’t know what to expect from a Still side, and after 4 games I don’t really know either. Maybe I am being unreasonable, I don’t think I am, it’s not a demand as such, I’m just curious to see what this guy will do that makes us successful.

Look at any half successful Saints manager of the past 20-30 years and most fans can pick out some attributes of why they were decent. Alan Ball, WGS, Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Ralph. All had styles that you could distinguish between. Maybe in time we’ll see what the Will Still equivalent is. Just not sure where we’re headed yet. Aim not sure that’s a controversial thing to say, but whatever.

[trousers]

24 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

you knew what a Russell Martin side was from a very early point

As did the opposition...

[The Kraken]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

As did the opposition...

true.

Tbf I do still remember watching us against Sheff Wed in the first game of the season and keeping the ball for the last ten minutes and thinking “I’ve never really seen a saints side do that before!”

[stfrancisofbenali]

27 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Why not appoint a more seasoned manager then.

Because they believe he’ll come good and they might well be right. It’s not a disastrous start so let’s not overreact. 

[skintsaint]

Just now, stfrancisofbenali said:

It’s not a disastrous start so let’s not overreact. 

Thats not the Saintsweb way. 

[benjii]

3 minutes ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Because they believe he’ll come good and they might well be right. It’s not a disastrous start so let’s not overreact. 

It's a pretty shit start. One win from 4. 

Only 2 goals from open play.

Concede loads of good chances every match.

 

Edit: I'm not including the match against Norwich reserves 

Edited Saturday at 18:10 by benjii

[stfrancisofbenali]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Thats not the Saintsweb way. 

Glad to attempt to be the voice of reason! 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Thats the point, I don’t know what to expect from a Still side, and after 4 games I don’t really know either. Maybe I am being unreasonable, I don’t think I am, it’s not a demand as such, I’m just curious to see what this guy will do that makes us successful.

Look at any half successful Saints manager of the past 20-30 years and most fans can pick out some attributes of why they were decent. Alan Ball, WGS, Adkins, Poch, Koeman, Ralph. All had styles that you could distinguish between. Maybe in time we’ll see what the Will Still equivalent is. Just not sure where we’re headed yet. Aim not sure that’s a controversial thing to say, but whatever.

It's absolutely not a controversial thing to say but the little I know of his previous teams is they are not known for any particular attributes (I emphasise the little I know part though). I think his whole thing is to keep teams in the game and get enough quality at the top end to go and win it and that kind of approach is going to lead to games looking a bit like they have done imo and I'm not convinced thats going to change. It's why David Moyes teams quickly get despised by fans the moment the results dry up. I think he'd quite like it if we stopped giving frustrating goals away though, that would help results, which is exactly what he has been asked to be judged on. Anyway, it's August still and anyone wetting the bed (not you) needs to get a life  

[stfrancisofbenali]

2 minutes ago, benjii said:

It's a pretty shit start. One win from 4. 

Only 2 goals from open play.

Concede loads of good chances every match.

 

Edit: I'm not including the match against Norwich reserves 

One win, two draws, a loss and mid-table is an average start.

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

One win, two draws, a loss and mid-table is an average start.

1 defeat in 6 with an unsettled morale hit squad. Depends if you are a half glass full/empty type.

I'm expecting wins to start flowing more frequently after the break.

[benjii]

2 minutes ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

One win, two draws, a loss and mid-table is an average start.

Not for a team with a vastly superior squad to most of its opposition.

[Winnersaint]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He could have played Edwards sitting (with Charles), with Fraser wide....4231

 

That was my thinking when Downes was taken out so late before KO. IRC Edwards did play as a holding midfielder at QPR on occasions last season.

[benjii]

Manning can play mid as well, and the vastly experienced, Premier League regular, Taylor could get a game for once.

[Coastal]

We need to get rid of this dullard.

[Saint NL]

He seems an all or nothing kind of guy.

5 at the back until we need a goal and then every attack minded player on the bench gets chucked on. 

It worked against Wrexham, but it's not going to work every week.

At the end today, Ross Stewart seemed to be playing wide left which is an interesting choice.

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, Coastal said:

We need to get rid of this dullard.

[Baird of the land]

Just now, Saint NL said:

He seems an all or nothing kind of guy.

5 at the back until we need a goal and then every attack minded player on the bench gets chucked on. 

It worked against Wrexham, but it's not going to work every week.

At the end today, Ross Stewart seemed to be playing wide left which is an interesting choice.

Maybe that’s what all the flexible/adaptable bs is about, rather than adapting tactically to the opposition.

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Coastal said:

We need to get rid of this dullard.

The Moyesiah is doing ok isn’t he?

[hypochondriac]

Does feel a little bit like he's playing football manager at the moment...

[Oldandtired]

25 minutes ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Because they believe he’ll come good and they might well be right. It’s not a disastrous start so let’s not overreact. 

Spoilsport

[Patches O Houlihan]

26 minutes ago, benjii said:

Not for a team with a vastly superior squad to most of its opposition.

Who all want out, and were emasculated by Russell Martin and a PL hiding...

[Patches O Houlihan]

26 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

That was my thinking when Downes was taken out so late before KO. IRC Edwards did play as a holding midfielder at QPR on occasions last season.

When I looked at his stats in the week I think he played DM twice for QPR

[Patches O Houlihan]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why do so many of our supporters lap up the pony these hipster managers  spout at “pressers”.

What has Will Still ever said that came across as 'hipster' to you? I'm genuinely intrigued. 

He's the most straight talking manager in press conferences I think I've ever listened to. Adam Blackmore described his straight talking as a breath of fresh air.

When transfer negotiations are going on as a manager you have to be a bit tight lipped about some stuff or you'll just be made to look foolish by changing circumstance.

[Smirking_Saint]

Whilst I understand what he is saying regards 5 atb and apparently having no wide men, I don’t think we’ve won a single midfield battle this season.. and that, in part, is due to Downes/Charles being overloaded

… edit … I was going to write up some tactical thoughts but I just cba

5 atb isn’t working, defensively we’re confused, midfield weak and balls not sticking up top

Bring on the international break and hopefully we go 4231 against the skates

[Smirking_Saint]

Also… before we lose our shit, Ipswich havnt won a game yet and they’re managed by Mckenna who has been there years

Im genuinely not worried yet, we’ve been good enough to win every game so far

[Appy]

34 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Does feel a little bit like he's playing football manager at the moment...

You know what the object of that game is right? 

[Pamplemousse]

We can only get better. So if this is our dodgy period then so be it.

42 games to go. I'll be concerned if we're 13th in February, not at the end of August.

[skintsaint]

6 minutes ago, Appy said:

You know what the object of that game is right? 

Buy players cheap, sell high and win the league...think we are halfway there!

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, Appy said:

You know what the object of that game is right? 

Yeah but you can't quit and then reload your save in real life.

[benjii]

37 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Also… before we lose our shit, Ipswich havnt won a game yet and they’re managed by Mckenna who has been there years

Im genuinely not worried yet, we’ve been good enough to win every game so far

We've also been bad enough to lose every game.

[skintsaint]

5 minutes ago, benjii said:

We've also been bad enough to lose every game.

But created enough to win each game.

 

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

He needs to ditch 5 at the back. The 3 CBs that played yesterday are all too slow and Manning goes down too easily looking for fouls.

We have the attacking players to take it to most teams but don't do so currently. Fast transitions are needed but the team is too slow.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

28 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

He needs to ditch 5 at the back. The 3 CBs that played yesterday are all too slow and Manning goes down too easily looking for fouls.

We have the attacking players to take it to most teams but don't do so currently. Fast transitions are needed but the team is too slow.

And they are miles too slow. There's an argument to put in Quarshie if you're doing 5 at the back because he's fast and can track back quickly; he gets his head on the ball and we shouldn't underestimate his long throw-ins. Just a pity he can't kick a football.

Just watched the highlights. What was Will Still getting all wound out about at the end of the game?

[benjii]

1 minute ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

And they are miles too slow. There's an argument to put in Quarshie if you're doing 5 at the back because he's fast and can track back quickly; he gets his head on the ball and we shouldn't underestimate his long throw-ins. Just a pity he can't kick a football.

Just watched the highlights. What was Will Still getting all wound out about at the end of the game?

Quarshie should absolutely be on the pitch if we're doing a back 3. Wood is a solid guy and gives his all, and he'll take a whack for the team, but he's nothing more than a mid to low Championship bruiser. 

Still doesn't appear to have a clue how to set up a defence on the evidence so far.

[gio1saints]

14 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

Is that unreasonable? He's been here all pre-season, appears to have learnt nothing from that time, and has now continued that on to vital games. We're already 7 points behind Boro. 

Appears to have learned nothing is a bit harsh. 

Do you not think losing our FOUR best players : Ramsdale, Dibling, Fernandes and KWP plus arguably our best CB in Jan Bednarek, best winger in Kameldeen and most obvious target  man in TP would have given him plenty homework in recent weeks?

Every few days he’s had to cobble together a team- and tactics - accordingly to whoever he’s got available( or wants to be available, or who hasn’t developed a niggle..) It’s more fire fighting than squad development at this point. 

You are prepared to give him low marks for the performances delivered from that ill fitting jigsaw of a squad. Fair enough I agree. Think the cobbled together teams could have done better. Could have done worse too. 

But to infer he’s learned nothing is a stretch. I think he’s already learned plenty about what his players can and cannot do / and who he can rely on. 
 

One example is who he has excluded from match day squads (like BBD !) who he realises wants to give 100% (Ryan Fraser) - and how to elicit it - Who has recognised he must give immediate starting opportunity to (Jay and Mads) and who he should drop  (like Armstrong ) to see if it works.
 

Lastly for the first time as a Saints manager in recent history - he’s publicly said to our not scoring forwards that, essentially, if they want to play as a forward next week they  must score or they will be replaced. The instant response to Archer hearing that was he scored yesterday. I’d say he taught Cam a good lesson myself. 

Some of that he learned some he already had. But the bloke is certainly not standing still learning nowt. Sorry for the pun! 😇

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Appears to have learned nothing is a bit harsh. 

Do you not think losing our FOUR best players : Ramsdale, Dibling, Fernandes and KWP plus arguably our best CB in Jan Bednarek, best winger in Kameldeen and most obvious target  man in TP would have given him plenty homework in recent weeks?

Every few days he’s had to cobble together a team- and tactics - accordingly to whoever he’s got available( or wants to be available, or who hasn’t developed a niggle..) It’s more fire fighting than squad development at this point. 

You are prepared to give him low marks for the performances delivered from that ill fitting jigsaw of a squad. Fair enough I agree. Think the cobbled together teams could have done better. Could have done worse too. 

But to infer he’s learned nothing is a stretch. I think he’s already learned plenty about what his players can and cannot do / and who he can rely on. 
 

One example is who he has excluded from match day squads (like BBD !) who he realises wants to give 100% (Ryan Fraser) - and how to elicit it - Who has recognised he must give immediate starting opportunity to (Jay and Mads) and who he should drop  (like Armstrong ) to see if it works.
 

Lastly for the first time as a Saints manager in recent history - he’s publicly said to our not scoring forwards that, essentially, if they want to play as a forward next week they  must score or they will be replaced. The instant response to Archer hearing that was he scored yesterday. I’d say he taught Cam a good lesson myself. 

Some of that he learned some he already had. But the bloke is certainly not standing still learning nowt. Sorry for the pun! 😇

Cobbled together Very few days?

Most of the squad selections he has made have been pretty consistent, with a notable absence of just Fernandes. He has a huge squad to choose from.

 

Best winger, Kameldeen?

If you think Sulemana was our best winger, then there is no hope for you (and he went very early in the window, with Onuachua, so never part of his set up). 

 

It is obvious on this thread (and others) that we have a good enough squad to understand the direction we are going. As Kraken and Benji subtly state, what is it he is trying to do, and why are we so bad in nearly all areas of the pitch. You all know my view on why I think that is.

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[gio1saints]

13 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Also… before we lose our shit, Ipswich havnt won a game yet and they’re managed by Mckenna who has been there years

Im genuinely not worried yet, we’ve been good enough to win every game so far

McKenna best manager in the universe McKenna that we all wish we had here? Mckenna next manager of Man Utd? Surely not mans a genius. 😁

Sometimes temporary results and performances can obscure truths - highly respected goalie Johanssen gifting WBA victory yesterday and McKenna still can’t buy a win. It’s temporary. Both are still very good - as is Still and most his team - patience! .😂😇

[trousers]

15 hours ago, Greedyfly said:

Is that unreasonable? He's been here all pre-season, appears to have learnt nothing from that time, and has now continued that on to vital games. We're already 7 points behind Boro. 

After 14 games in the Championship last time around we were 15 points behind Leicester and 11 points behind Ipswich, so still plenty of time for things to get a bad as they were under Russell Martin in the initial stages of the season...

 

[gio1saints]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Cobbled together Very few days?

Most of the squad selections he has made have been pretty consistent, with a notable absence of just Fernandes. He has a huge squad to choose from.

 

Best winger, Kameldeen?

If you think Sulemana was our best winger, then there is no hope for you (and he went very early in the window, with Onuachua, so never part of his set up). 

 

 

 

Who was our best winger then? BBD? Adam Armstrong ? Ross Stewart ?Still picked up a young Jay Robinson and he looks great - Still picked him and kept him. Evidence of learning. 
 

You appear to be on a one eyed mission to point out every flaw or mistake made by the manager and team. Shifting a load of players out and replacing them - and motivating them and showing them it does not have to be as shit as last year - especially from the 2nd worst team in EPL history - that’s a piece of cake right? That just works well from Day one and just gets better doesn’t it.

In reality we appear to have assembled almost the right make up of squad give or take the known leavers and a couple joiners. Right now your attacks on him seem excessive. 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, gio1saints said:

Who was our best winger then? BBD? Adam Armstrong ? Ross Stewart ?Still picked up a young Jay Robinson and he looks great - Still picked him and kept him. Evidence of learning. 
 

You appear to be on a one eyed mission to point out every flaw or mistake made by the manager and team. Shifting a load of players out and replacing them - and motivating them and showing them it does not have to be as shit as last year - especially from the 2nd worst team in EPL history - that’s a piece of cake right? That just works well from Day one and just gets better doesn’t it.

In reality we appear to have assembled almost the right make up of squad give or take the known leavers and a couple joiners. Right now your attacks on him seem excessive. 

Fraser is our best winger/wide man, and Armstrong was brilliant doing it last time we were in this league.

 

[StrangelyBrown]

15 hours ago, Paul_B said:

If Will Still is responsible for this cluster fuck of a formation which everybody including my cat can see is utter dogshit, and he starts with it in the next game, he needs to be sacked immediately, before the players have even made it on to the pitch. If he is not responsible, he needs to mtfu and tell whoever is dictating to get fucked, and come out and tell us! I don't buy the excuse he's been pedalling, but we shall see......

I've said it a few times now there is something suspicious about us playing 3 at the back... We started doing it regularly when SR first came in, Rasmus spouted some bollocks about it when he first came in (related to what a genius he was at Brentford or something) and we seem to relentlessly stick to it despite it not suiting us apart from when we did ditch it under Martin and went on the unbeaten run. Our players aren't intelligent enough to do it properly too. It's all very odd ...

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

3 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I've said it a few times now there is something suspicious about us playing 3 at the back...

I also don't accept his reason that he's waiting for the right moment to change. Maybe it's his way of fitting Jack Stephens in to the team, but I agree, for someone who has a reputation for adapting to circumstances (which doesn't just mean throwing on all your forwards when you're 1-0 down), he seems pretty set in his way playing 5 at the back the whole time.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I've said it a few times now there is something suspicious about us playing 3 at the back... We started doing it regularly when SR first came in, Rasmus spouted some bollocks about it when he first came in (related to what a genius he was at Brentford or something) and we seem to relentlessly stick to it despite it not suiting us apart from when we did ditch it under Martin and went on the unbeaten run. Our players aren't intelligent enough to do it properly too. It's all very odd ...

We've had an empty midfield for years now and it's all because of squeezing an extra central defender in where they're not needed and only make things worse.

You have to wonder..

[Fabrice29]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We've had an empty midfield for years now and it's all because of squeezing an extra central defender in where they're not needed and only make things worse.

You have to wonder..

1 season and 4 league games at a push. Not years. 

But okay so what drastic 1 player swap gets a drastic improvement do you think? You take out one of the CB’s and stick in who and where that suddenly makes everything better? 

[ErwinK1961]

15 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Does feel a little bit like he's playing football manager at the moment...

What does that even mean?

[ErwinK1961]

17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Me neither. 
 

Had it not been for 3 mins against Wrexham it would be even worse. 
 

Why do so many of our supporters lap up the pony these hipster managers  spout at “pressers”. All that matters is results.

Very early days, but Middlesbrough have a new manager and are top of the league. So far I’ve been completely underwhelmed by his results and tactics. 

Will Still a ‘hipster’ manager 😂

Do you just have one default setting when a manager isn’t Moyes or Allardyce?