skintsaint Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Yes...I think we can. One of JPs biggest problems was that he never managed in top flight footie and it showed in the end with his one style of play and not really knowing his best team. I also think that his constant changing of the team is the fact that down in the lower leagues of Dutch football im convinced that the players are virtually all at the same skill level, whereas in the CCC you really have a big gulf of class between first teamers like Saga, Davis etc etc and players like Lancashire and Gobern. Wotte has managed at the top level, and has been there for a number of years in Holland. He seems to have more of a clue of what needs to be done and from what Ive heard from his statements he seems to be more no-nonsense than JP. Still early days though but tomorrow will give us a good idea if he can turn it around. I will take a draw tomorrow as Swansea are in a bit of form, but of course wish for three! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I'll tell you after tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I hope so, but feel we will just go down if we stay solvent, JP will shoulder the blame etc and we will start in League 1 with a manager who has probably no idea of that league and the football played in it. His knowledge base of the players required to get us out will be non-existant and we will just lurch to another dreadful season. All IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I'll tell you after tomorrow. Im with you on that one. After just 1 half I would have sacked him in the changing rooms if I was in charge but fair play for the 2nd half. If lessons have been learnt and we get a convincing win on Sat then I think I will give him the thumbs up but if it all goes to pooh I will settle for league 1 next year. Thats the 1st time I have thought that this season TBH as the rest of the season I thought we will do enough. I feel this next match needs to be the turning point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stax Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I haven't giving up hope of staying up, but i think we probably will go down with wotte, if Lowe would have acted quicker and brought in Billy Davies we would have stayed up. A point would be great tomorrow but unlikely the form those swans are in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I believe anything's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Really think it is suck it and see! If we win the next three games, we will have a good chance! A lot of it is sown to the players as well, they need to start earning their money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Bones Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 For some strange reason I do. Saga could be the Catalyst, Maybe Lallana can find some amazing form - Who knows. I hoping , I'm praying but if any team is the experts of survival - It's Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I hope so, but feel we will just go down if we stay solvent, JP will shoulder the blame etc and we will start in League 1 with a manager who has probably no idea of that league and the football played in it. His knowledge base of the players required to get us out will be non-existant and we will just lurch to another dreadful season. All IMO. I dont get this, Does anyone think that Wenger or Ferguson or Mourinho would do any good managing a league 1 club? They has as much access to it as Wotte does surley? And the type of players that they will need to get to get out of it will be completly off there radar right now so would be as much in the dark as Wotte so it would then come down to how well they actually do there and then. Or should each club that goes up or down automatically go and get a manager that has only ever managed at that level because then they would have the knowledge needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 At the moment I reckon we're the 2nd most likely team to get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I am prepared to give Wotte a chance now he has been appointed as Head Coach and he is certainly spinning his way this week. Will we avoid relegation? I doubt it. I think the damage has already been done. Our next two home games might give us a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danbert Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 There are plenty of teams still in the mix. I reckon we're about 50/50. Coral has us at 5/6 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 we will finish bottom imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graymalkin33 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I dont know but I dont think it would be any different if we had any other manager to manage us. Managers only really tend to make a difference if there is money to spend or the previous manager has totally lost the dressing room. Of course some managers have come in and got instant results only for the slide to then continue. I think Saints will continue to slide until we get the finances sorted out. I hope he can keep us up. He has my 100% backing - as did Jan. I really hope we dont have a 3rd manager this season as that will inevitably lead to relegation i think whoever is appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I dont know but I dont think it would be any different if we had any other manager to manage us. Managers only really tend to make a difference if there is money to spend or the previous manager has totally lost the dressing room. Of course some managers have come in and got instant results only for the slide to then continue. I think Saints will continue to slide until we get the finances sorted out. I hope he can keep us up. He has my 100% backing - as did Jan. I really hope we dont have a 3rd manager this season as that will inevitably lead to relegation i think whoever is appointed. I don't agree with this in our case - our team is full of a lot of impressionable youngsters so I think a kick up the arse and/or a bit of fresh inspiration from a Boothroyd, Cotterill, Holloway (yes, I am that desperate) or similar could have had a real effect. Plus the old heads might be motivated by a bit of "normality" rather than Project Ajax 2010. Wotte might be the man to deliver the step change, maybe we'll find out tomorrow. Personally I doubt it and I have us down to finish second bottom with a fair wind behind us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Beat Swansea tomorrow and we have an outside chance of a reasonable scrap with five or six teams. If we lose against the swans then it would certainly be relegation and possibly even bottom of the pile. I have us for a 3-1 win more out of hope than any logic. Wotte was a big part of the JP set and therefore saw no sense in his taking Head Coach position...Madness. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I dont get this, Does anyone think that Wenger or Ferguson or Mourinho would do any good managing a league 1 club? Yes, I do. The three of them are experts at the basics. Picking players, getting them organised, motivating them and getting them to work for their own development and for the rest of the team. Being aware of what motivates each individual player and acting on it, making the whole team aware that no-one is bigger than the club, the team or the project. Being aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the opponents, to nullify them but not be dictated to by them. Picking an assistant or two to help where help is needed. Managing the fans expectations. The basics, and they are the best in the business. It winds me right up when people say "even Mourinho couldn't do any better at Saints". What utter rot. Of course he bloody could. Jose would get these same players to at least mid table stood on his head. If Boothroyd can promote a shambolic Watford that finished 20th in the previous season in one season in his first job, I think we can assume Jose Mourinho could cope with managing in this league, the one below or any league anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I agree with what others have said. Depends on how he approaches the next few games. If he has learnt anything from the first half at Norwich. If he reverts back to a 4-1-4-1 then we're screwed. But if he leaves it as it was in the 2nd half at Norwich we're have a better chance. However as much as i want it to work out i just can't see it. I predicted we would struggle under JP and i see nothing different about that happening under Wotte. The next few games are so vital that losing even just the next game could mean we need 7 points just to get out of the drop zone. Make no mistake about it the next few months are going to be very tense. I just hope we rise to the challenge rather then bottle it like in the Forest,Doncaster etc games. That would **** me off more then being relegated, the fact that we did not even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 It all depends on Wotte learning (or having learnt) the right lessons and ensuring the players remain confident and postive. The second half at Norwich proved his approach is flexbile and his media interviews so far seem to hit all the right notes. So on balance, as of today, my answer is YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I'm certainly more hopeful than under JP. Although that may just be luck on Wottes part, with Saga coming back from loan and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Talking of these top Managers Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger etc. Are we talking about Managing us or actually playing in our side. In my opinion to play for us is possible but only after gaining some match fitness. Put Fergie up front..bugger it at least he would batter a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I hope so. I also find it VERY hypocritical that SOME would want wotte gone if he keeps us up... Keeping us up would match any scrapes in the prem back in the mid 90s for me... one or two have actually suggested that wotte has it easier than pearson last season... :smt088 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 While there is life there is hope. Sadly, its a long time since a new manager has "hit the ground running" at Saints. All the recent ones seemed to have a series of losses at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labibs Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 It worries me that people are expecting a win tmw (or at least saying that without a win, Wotte would be a failure) Swansea are on something like a 10 match unbeaten run. It's asking a lot for Wotte to end that in his first home game in charge... I actually think we will go down, as I can't see us winning enough games to get the points. I do wonder if any manger, that we would have a realistic chance of appointing, could save us at this point. Yes someone like Mourinho could save us, but we would never appoint him. I guess you're looking at the likes of Boothroyd, Holloway or Dowie and it's far from certain that any of them would do any better than Wotte will / may do. Holloway failed at Leicester, Dowie has been poor everywhere he has been, since getting Palace to the Prem and Boothroyd was struggling at a Watford side with resources arguably better than our own. Given the current situation, I'm supporting Wotte and hoping he can turn us around. Playing 2 strikers at home will be a good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 next two games are pivotal in my opinion, both home -and its home form getting us relegated new manager time running out 6 points - pretty confident 4 points - fairly confident 3 points - doesn't really answer it, still looking very gloomy but not written off 0/1 points - looking favorites for relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I have absolutey no confidence in Wotte being able to keep us up. I am not 100% convinced that any of the other name mentioned (experienced managers) would manage to keep us up with the players available and from the position we are in but I would have more faith in the likes of Dowie or Boothroyd than I have in Wotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 just a few minutes ago i conversed with a pal who is very close to things and I asked what was the mood like in the squad and he came back that it was a much better mood around and there were tactics being worked on.Or words to that effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I hope so. I also find it VERY hypocritical that SOME would want wotte gone if he keeps us up... Keeping us up would match any scrapes in the prem back in the mid 90s for me... one or two have actually suggested that wotte has it easier than pearson last season... :smt088 Wotte has it far harder imho. Bet we weren't close to the relegation candidates with bookies last year when NP came in, I was surpised we were still candidates for the drop at the last game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 If we had hired Davies when some of us on here had said I would have said we would have been cast iron definites to stay up. With Wotte I'd say it's about 70% likely that we will go down, but that will change depending on the result tomorrow and those 'oh, we have to sell x players and there's no time to get anyone else in' bleatings from the board on 1 Feb at ten to midnight. Or when we wake up and find out. So no, in short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 If we had hired Davies when some of us on here had said I would have said we would have been cast iron definites to stay up. With Wotte I'd say it's about 70% likely that we will go down, but that will change depending on the result tomorrow and those 'oh, we have to sell x players and there's no time to get anyone else in' bleatings from the board on 1 Feb at ten to midnight. Or when we wake up and find out. So no, in short.The window closes on the 2nd of Feb I think, but of course we still can get loans in for a long time after that.So a new man would be able to get players in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Yes, I do. The three of them are experts at the basics. Picking players, getting them organised, motivating them and getting them to work for their own development and for the rest of the team. Being aware of what motivates each individual player and acting on it, making the whole team aware that no-one is bigger than the club, the team or the project. Being aware of the strengths and weaknesses of the opponents, to nullify them but not be dictated to by them. Picking an assistant or two to help where help is needed. Managing the fans expectations. The basics, and they are the best in the business. It winds me right up when people say "even Mourinho couldn't do any better at Saints". What utter rot. Of course he bloody could. Jose would get these same players to at least mid table stood on his head. If Boothroyd can promote a shambolic Watford that finished 20th in the previous season in one season in his first job, I think we can assume Jose Mourinho could cope with managing in this league, the one below or any league anywhere. Im not saying he couldnt do a decent job with us. But if you took the likes of Wenger to a team in League 1 for a season would he really be as successful? It would be fine if he could afford to go and buy the caliber of players he is used to but as someone suggested he would need players that know how to get out of league 1 and there for would have to go out and identify them. Our system would work better in the prem someone else has said so would Wenger know whats the best system to work in league 1? Im not trying to have a dig at anyone or suggest that they couldnt do it. IMO any decent manager will get decent results with any team anywhere in any league, so the suggestion that Wotte wont do any good because he has no idea how to cope in the CCC or what system will work best is Balls IMO. He is either good enough or he isnt. Obviously we cant afford the likes of Wenger so we get in people we can afford. If we could afford WGS im sure we would have hunted him down and begged him to come back. The choice was made and we will find out ultimatly if it was the right one or not but ive had enough of the carp excuse's as to why Wotte will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I agree with what others have said. Depends on how he approaches the next few games. If he has learnt anything from the first half at Norwich. If he reverts back to a 4-1-4-1 then we're screwed. But if he leaves it as it was in the 2nd half at Norwich we're have a better chance. However as much as i want it to work out i just can't see it. I predicted we would struggle under JP and i see nothing different about that happening under Wotte. The next few games are so vital that losing even just the next game could mean we need 7 points just to get out of the drop zone. Make no mistake about it the next few months are going to be very tense. I just hope we rise to the challenge rather then bottle it like in the Forest,Doncaster etc games. That would **** me off more then being relegated, the fact that we did not even try. A bit tricky because if he reverts back to 4141 and it works then he can say that system should have done better 1st half against norwich. Personally I would rather see him start his next half the same as he did the last but that could also go pants down and we look like a bag of pooh again. the uncertain life of a saints supporter huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I really think its not to early to say that tommorows game will potentially seal our fate. Will the players (and fans)stand up and be counted? A win and we have real hope of getting ourselves out of this huge mess. Another Loss and I feel the damage between the board and the fans will be un-repairable and even the diehards will think twice before purchasing a ticket/turning up again. I guess at the end of the day all we can do is get behind the team and hope for the best as there certainly won't be another change of manager this season. :smt022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Do you think we can stay up with Wotte? Errrr, NOPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsfannick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 No unless he gets us a couple of players in the next 4 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 The dye is cast. Momentum is with other clubs. Regrettably we have no choice other than to back who and what we have now to get us out of this mess. My jaundiced view of things has become that we will go on a winning unbeaten run, but Lowe will still go for administration out of spite, and so we go down on points deducted, not results. How ironic. Lowe you intend to do your worst, come what may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I have little more confidence in Wotte than I had in JP. Neither is experienced in British football at this level. The only possible glimmer of hope is that because Wotte was prepared to change the formation at Norwich for the second half and play two strikers up front, he showed more flexibility in tactical changes than the hapless Jan had demonstrated in over half a season before. If he is somebody that learns from his mistakes and rectifies them accordingly, then there is at least more chance of survival than under JP who seemingly learnt nothing from his mistakes. But then again, Lowe has never learned anything from his mistakes as he doesn't even acknowledge having made any. It is a bit of a connundrum as to whether Wotte can do better than JP having been his subordinate. If he could, why wasn't he appointed before JP? Frankly I have little faith in either of them and fear that the entire barmy Dutch experiment should have been dropped like a hot brick at the time of JPs departure. Lowe's insistence of carrying on with Wotte instead of appointing a capable British manager will be the reason for our relegation, but at least if that happens, Lowe will have nowhere to hide and noboby to blame but himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 (edited) I have little more confidence in Wotte than I had in JP. Neither is experienced in British football at this level. The only possible glimmer of hope is that because Wotte was prepared to change the formation at Norwich for the second half and play two strikers up front, he showed more flexibility in tactical changes than the hapless Jan had demonstrated in over half a season before. If he is somebody that learns from his mistakes and rectifies them accordingly, then there is at least more chance of survival than under JP who seemingly learnt nothing from his mistakes. But then again, Lowe has never learned anything from his mistakes as he doesn't even acknowledge having made any. It is a bit of a connundrum as to whether Wotte can do better than JP having been his subordinate. If he could, why wasn't he appointed before JP? Frankly I have little faith in either of them and fear that the entire barmy Dutch experiment should have been dropped like a hot brick at the time of JPs departure. Lowe's insistence of carrying on with Wotte instead of appointing a capable British manager will be the reason for our relegation, but at least if that happens, Lowe will have nowhere to hide and noboby to blame but himself.If we go down I will blame RL . not for trying the Dutch/youth experiment but not changing the manager sooner Edited 30 January, 2009 by OldNick MR X pointing out my error, smartar## Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 No. The strategy he was a party to has completely failed this season. He was part of the management team that lost the dressing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Yes...I think we can. One of JPs biggest problems was that he never managed in top flight footie and it showed in the end with his one style of play and not really knowing his best team. I also think that his constant changing of the team is the fact that down in the lower leagues of Dutch football im convinced that the players are virtually all at the same skill level, whereas in the CCC you really have a big gulf of class between first teamers like Saga, Davis etc etc and players like Lancashire and Gobern. Wotte has managed at the top level, and has been there for a number of years in Holland. He seems to have more of a clue of what needs to be done and from what Ive heard from his statements he seems to be more no-nonsense than JP. Still early days though but tomorrow will give us a good idea if he can turn it around. I will take a draw tomorrow as Swansea are in a bit of form, but of course wish for three! Far, far too early to say that, the guy has only had one game so far...Jeeze. In am all for being an optimist but to say yes after 1 game is downright crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 No. The strategy he was a party to has completely failed this season. He was part of the management team that lost the dressing room.I dont think it was a case of him losing the dressing room, not as far as my information anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 The window closes on the 2nd of Feb I think, but of course we still can get loans in for a long time after that.So a new man would be able to get players in That in many cases are the dross that is left nobody else wants or they would have been signed before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I agree he was part of the management team -but not sure what influence he had day to day with the players -with Jan, Hockaday and the other guy who I have forgotten -all doing team talks and on the bench etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 If we go down I will blame RL . not for trying the Dutch/youth experiment but not for changing the manager sooner What will you blame him for then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 That in many cases are the dross that is left nobody else wants or they would have been signed beforeand we are in the position to get top players.You cut your cloth accordingly.To be fair the loans in the main in the last few seasons have done well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 What will you blame him for then? Ooooooops, I think id better edit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 I agree he was part of the management team -but not sure what influence he had day to day with the players -with Jan, Hockaday and the other guy who I have forgotten -all doing team talks and on the bench etc Head Coach Rupert Director of Football:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Ooooooops, I think id better edit it sorry just being annoying as usual You going on the protest march tommorow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 30 January, 2009 Share Posted 30 January, 2009 Head Coach Rupert Director of Football:D I knew that was coming! bugging me now tho -what is other guy's name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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