January Transfer Window

[coalman]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

Ultimately, if good players are being identified like Fernandes, then it's hard to argue against a process, but if you are bringing players like Gronbaek into the club that then can't get a game in a poor side, then that raises questions.

And, therein lies the problem. If you buy enough players then sometimes you're going to find a good one. Is that because of your process or in spite of it? In the same way that recruiting a Sulemana or a BBD doesn't mean your process is bad.

Attempting to rank all teams in Europe into a single league to identify the teams doing well is a novel approach but you're comparing vastly differing sample sizes of teams playing between leagues and basing your inference model on performance that changes from week to week and season to season. Are a player's stats good because they are good or is it because of the players around them or the tactics they are employing? Does a recruitment approach that worked for a Danish top tier side work for a Premier League team? This is just scratching the surface on why this approach is sketchy. Fundamentally, is a team outperforming its league down to its players, training or something else? Unless you've demonstrated a causal link you're just making decision based on coincidence (or statistically, correlation).

At best, you might use a statistics based approach to identify players that might be worth looking at further. But then you have to watch them (whether on video or in person) to understand why the stats are saying that. You also want to watch them when the camera is not on them (for example - anyone watching Manning play with the ball might think he's a great ball playing full back - anyone watching him amble around the middle of the park without the ball would immediately spot that he's left a gaping hole for the other team to exploit at left back).

To give some examples. It's arguable that Pochettino was among our best managers ever. Adkins got us promoted twice and Saints were competing in the Premier League but changing from Adkins to Pochettino led to a marked improvement in both performance and results with the same players. Almost overnight. Hughes managed to keep us up and yet changing to Hassenhutl again led to a massive improvement with the same players. Did the players become that much better or were they in an environment where they were able to perform better? Towards the end of his reign the game had moved on and Hassenhutl's tactics were found out. Does this mean the players had gotten worse?

Ankersen's approach has no way to normalise for this. If he'd analysed Saints under Adkins he'd have been far less likely to see Saints players as worthy of recruitment yet under Pochettino the exact same players would have been a far more attractive proposition. One might reasonably argue that getting the manager right is critical to getting the environment right and the best out of players. Under Ankersen's approach the manager is there to implement policy with the players he is given not develop an environment in which they can excel.

Edited 21 hours ago by coalman

[lambtiss]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Ultimately, if good players are being identified like Fernandes, then it's hard to argue against a process, but if you are bringing players like Gronbaek into the club that then can't get a game in a poor side, then that raises questions.

 

 

My biggest gripe is that the scouting has not addressed the most important failings in the team.i.e. A centre forward, a strong defence minded midfielder and a centre back with good defensive aerial ability. You could also add Goalkeeper to this list, although Ramsdale was good and hopefully Peretz will prove to be good. 

Too often, the new recruits either don't address the key areas, are too young (Quarshie, Downes) or just not good enough (Downes, Onuachu).

Edited yesterday at 14:23 by lambtiss

[disconnect]

20 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

My biggest gripe is that the scouting has not addressed the most important failings in the team.i.e. A centre forward, a strong defence minded midfielder and a centre back with good defensive aerial ability. You could also add Goalkeeper to this list, although Ramsdale was good and hopefully Peretz will prove to be good. 

Too often, the new recruits either don't address the key areas, are too young (Quarshie, Downes) or just not good enough (Downes, Onuachu).

Which player are you referring to? Flynn Downes isn't too young, and arguably on form is good enough for a top end Championship team (although that's quite rare these days), but Damion Downs was a young and fairly untested player who proved not to be good enough (currently). 

Agreed that we're missing that powerful core spine of the team though - strong centre forward and defensive midfielder (see Wanyama!). 

[Chez]

28 minutes ago, lambtiss said:

My biggest gripe is that the scouting has not addressed the most important failings in the team.i.e. A centre forward, a strong defence minded midfielder and a centre back with good defensive aerial ability. 

They have attempted to address two of those three areas when buying Downs and and Quarshie. So they have identified the same issues as yourself. Obviously Downs has not worked out and Quarshie hasn't been an instant fix.

Not sure they saw defensive CM as a requirement. Jander was bought and he isn't a 'destroyer' type. Maybe they thought Downes, Charles and Sesay had the position covered. Bringing in Romeu suggests they changed their mind, but again, the club agreed with you in terms of needs.

[Chez]

58 minutes ago, coalman said:

And, therein lies the problem. If you buy enough players then sometimes you're going to find a good one. Is that because of your process or in spite of it? In the same way that recruiting a Sulemana or a BBD doesn't mean your process is bad.

Attempting to rank all teams in Europe into a single league to identify the teams doing well is a novel approach but you're comparing vastly differing sample sizes of teams playing between leagues and basing your inference model on performance that changes from week to week and season to season. Are a player's stats good because they are good or is it because of the players around them or the tactics they are employing? Does a recruitment approach that worked for a Danish top tier side work for a Premier League team? This is just scratching the surface on why this approach is sketchy. Fundamentally, is a team outperforming its league down to its players, training or something else? Unless you've demonstrated a causal link you're just making decision based on coincidence (or statistically, correlation).

At best, you might use a statistics based approach to identify players that might be worth looking at further. But then you have to watch them (whether on video or in person) to understand why the stats are saying that. You also want to watch them when the camera is not on them (for example - anyone watching Manning play with the ball might think he's a great ball playing full back - anyone watching him amble around the middle of the park would immediately spot that he's left a gaping hole for the other team to exploit at left back).

To give some examples. It's arguable that Pochettino was among our best managers ever. Adkins got us promoted twice and Saints were competing in the Premier League but changing from Adkins to Pochettino led to a marked improvement in both performance and results with the same players. Almost overnight. Hughes managed to keep us up and yet changing to Hassenhutl again led to a massive improvement with the same players. Did the players become that much better or were they in an environment where they were able to perform better? Towards the end of his reign the game had moved on and Hassenhutl's tactics were found out. Does this mean the players had gotten worse?

Ankersen's approach has no way to normalise for this. If he'd analysed Saints under Adkins he'd have been far less likely to see Saints players as worthy of recruitment yet under Pochettino the exact same players would have been a far more attractive proposition. One might reasonably argue that getting the manager right is critical to getting the environment right and the best out of players. Under Ankersen's approach the manager is there to implement policy with the players he is given not develop an environment in which they can excel.

Very well put. I don't think there is any harm in ranking teams, but as you say, what is the value of associating the collective team ranking with the ability of an individual? 

 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Dan Neil (CM) signing on loan for Ipswich, contract up in the summer. Good signing for them. Not a position we need but a good signing nonetheless.

I don’t see us bringing more players in.

I imagine we’ll still be trying to shift on the deadwood in Aribo and Edozie before anything happens.

This season is done, as much as yes it is mathematically possible, but sometimes you have to be realistic and just say we aren’t good enough.

Sport Republic spending money now would be stupid, and I wouldn’t trust them to spend it wisely.

[Willo of Whiteley]

For those interested, Sport Republic effectively “revamped” the scouting network when they took over.

Scouts that had been at the club for years, some for over a decade were effectively told “get on board, or leave”, so a lot left.

They then compartmentalised the SR network, so if you are a Southampton scout, you are a Goztepe scout or a Valenciennes scout. 
You work for the group, not the club.

This alongside now being “data driven” and following an algorithm rather than physical spectating players then produced wrong signings, mad fees and wasted time and money - and subsequently for us two relegations in four years under them.

Yes, they found a couple of gems in Romeo Lavia and Mateus Fernandes, but they were already being tracked by a host of other teams; and it doesn’t mitigate the dross that has been signed in that time.

Think of players that have signed on long contracts and then been let go or loaned out since they signed: Orsic, Sugawara, Onuachu, Sulemana, Bree (although he’s back for now), Lavia, Fernandes, Downes, Juan, Fraser, Larios, Bella-Kotchap, Taylor, Bazunu, Brereton-Diaz, Edwards, Caleta-Car…. Unbelievably, I could go on.

Thought the above might be of some interest.

[DT]

I suspect there is a slim possibility of us still getting Piroe on loan if Leeds get Jorgen Strand Larsen (and maybe we shift out our captain, who doesn't want to be here but can run around a lot so is great, or something)

[Farmer Saint]

20 minutes ago, DT said:

I suspect there is a slim possibility of us still getting Piroe on loan if Leeds get Jorgen Strand Larsen (and maybe we shift out our captain, who doesn't want to be here but can run around a lot so is great, or something)

Why would we want Piroe? He'd be 3rd choice at best I'd have thought (behind Stewart and Armstrong). He's really not very good as a CF and mostly scored coming off the left.

Edited 22 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Wade Garrett]

I’ve stopped caring about the nerds doing the scouting on their laptops.  Dragan is writing the cheques and is an idiot of the highest order to keep trusting a complete load of fucking idiots who have never played the game.

He continues to trust Rasmus.  He continues to trust Spors who has lumbered us with 2 shit managers, the second of which is his pal.

I honestly hope he goes skint through all this.  What a fucking onion.

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

For those interested, Sport Republic effectively “revamped” the scouting network when they took over.

Scouts that had been at the club for years, some for over a decade were effectively told “get on board, or leave”, so a lot left.

They then compartmentalised the SR network, so if you are a Southampton scout, you are a Goztepe scout or a Valenciennes scout. 
You work for the group, not the club.

This alongside now being “data driven” and following an algorithm rather than physical spectating players then produced wrong signings, mad fees and wasted time and money - and subsequently for us two relegations in four years under them.

Yes, they found a couple of gems in Romeo Lavia and Mateus Fernandes, but they were already being tracked by a host of other teams; and it doesn’t mitigate the dross that has been signed in that time.

Think of players that have signed on long contracts and then been let go or loaned out since they signed: Orsic, Sugawara, Onuachu, Sulemana, Bree (although he’s back for now), Lavia, Fernandes, Downes, Juan, Fraser, Larios, Bella-Kotchap, Taylor, Bazunu, Brereton-Diaz, Edwards, Caleta-Car…. Unbelievably, I could go on.

Thought the above might be of some interest.

This suggests that spectating players has been replaced fully which isn't true.

[bugenhagen]

5 hours ago, coalman said:

https://thecorrespondent.com/2607/how-data-not-people-call-the-shots-in-denmark/230219386155-d2948861

Where he says:

• ‘People see huge difference between the Premier League and the lower divisions in England,’ Ankersen explains. ‘We think this is not true. There is a big gap between the Premier League’s number 7 and number 10. But the gap between the Premier League’s number 10 and the Championship, or even League One, is far smaller.’

So that's whats he is trying to prove!

[Willo of Whiteley]

53 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

This suggests that spectating players has been replaced fully which isn't true.

I didn’t say it doesn’t happen. But I have said how it’s more spreadsheet analysis based than scouting in person compared to previously.

Players are being scouted for the group, not the club and their respected league.

Also my news comes from someone close to the club. The same one that made me aware of several transfers previously. I’m not trying to point score but I’d rather take their word over anyone else’s. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Appy]

2 hours ago, DT said:

I suspect there is a slim possibility of us still getting Piroe on loan if Leeds get Jorgen Strand Larsen (and maybe we shift out our captain, who doesn't want to be here but can run around a lot so is great, or something)

By captain you mean?

[OneMrsWallace]

7 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I didn’t say it doesn’t happen. But I have said how it’s more spreadsheet analysis based than scouting in person compared to previously.

Players are being scouted for the group, not the club and their respected league.

Also my news comes from someone close to the club. The same one that made me aware of several transfers previously. I’m not trying to point score but I’d rather take their word over anyone else’s. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I reckon the vast majority of us understood exactly what you meant @Willo of Whiteley It's a really useful observation. Also, managers/coaches selecting players seems to be disappearing. I'm guessing they identify positions that need improving and leave it to the 'experts.' Not sure that's an ideal system. 

[Gloucester Saint]

6 minutes ago, OneMrsWallace said:

I reckon the vast majority of us understood exactly what you meant @Willo of Whiteley It's a really useful observation. Also, managers/coaches selecting players seems to be disappearing. I'm guessing they identify positions that need improving and leave it to the 'experts.' Not sure that's an ideal system. 

Although Jones (Bree) and Martin (Downes, Manning, Fraser and Wood) must have had a say in those signings.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

This suggests that spectating players has been replaced fully which isn't true.

Care to explain the detail of exactly how we do scout players then, and how you know? 

[Fabrice29]

45 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I didn’t say it doesn’t happen. But I have said how it’s more spreadsheet analysis based than scouting in person compared to previously.

Players are being scouted for the group, not the club and their respected league.

Also my news comes from someone close to the club. The same one that made me aware of several transfers previously. I’m not trying to point score but I’d rather take their word over anyone else’s. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don’t doubt any of what you’re saying I was just making sure nobody misunderstood that players are absolutely watched by the club. 

8 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Care to explain the detail of exactly how we do scout players then, and how you know? 

I don’t know ‘the detail of exactly we scout players’, so no. I do know people who have worked for the club doing scout reports by watching the players though so I know that it happens. I’m pretty sure there are online content creators who not only work for the club doing exactly that but will happily answer certain questions about it for you though if you find and ask them nicely. 

[SaintlyAnd]

4 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

For those interested, Sport Republic effectively “revamped” the scouting network when they took over.

Scouts that had been at the club for years, some for over a decade were effectively told “get on board, or leave”, so a lot left.

They then compartmentalised the SR network, so if you are a Southampton scout, you are a Goztepe scout or a Valenciennes scout. 
You work for the group, not the club.

This alongside now being “data driven” and following an algorithm rather than physical spectating players then produced wrong signings, mad fees and wasted time and money - and subsequently for us two relegations in four years under them.

Yes, they found a couple of gems in Romeo Lavia and Mateus Fernandes, but they were already being tracked by a host of other teams; and it doesn’t mitigate the dross that has been signed in that time.

Think of players that have signed on long contracts and then been let go or loaned out since they signed: Orsic, Sugawara, Onuachu, Sulemana, Bree (although he’s back for now), Lavia, Fernandes, Downes, Juan, Fraser, Larios, Bella-Kotchap, Taylor, Bazunu, Brereton-Diaz, Edwards, Caleta-Car…. Unbelievably, I could go on.

Thought the above might be of some interest.

I got told very similar a year ago ( by a friend who used to work in analysis at the club about 7 years ago and still knows people there). He said SRs move to scouting for the whole group led to so much confusion, plus undermined and frustrated a lot of people and it took years to get them functioning. In the meantime Ankersson went off by himself bringing in Onuachu, Sulemana (plus someone else I don’t remember) based on him knowing them from Denmark while criticising the recruitment team for poor recruitment!

I also had one interaction through work with our analysis team during the season we were relegated under Selles. I used to meet with analysts from lots of clubs and the most laughable experience was with Saints. And I was really impressed with Bournemouth and the work they do. 

 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, OneMrsWallace said:

I reckon the vast majority of us understood exactly what you meant @Willo of Whiteley It's a really useful observation. Also, managers/coaches selecting players seems to be disappearing. I'm guessing they identify positions that need improving and leave it to the 'experts.' Not sure that's an ideal system. 

Pretty sure managers of, for example, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace don't have any say whatsoever as to what players are purchased. Working really well for those clubs, which leads one to think they have better systems in place than sports direct / republic

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, SaintlyAnd said:

I got told very similar a year ago ( by a friend who used to work in analysis at the club about 7 years ago and still knows people there). He said SRs move to scouting for the whole group led to so much confusion, plus undermined and frustrated a lot of people and it took years to get them functioning. In the meantime Ankersson went off by himself bringing in Onuachu, Sulemana (plus someone else I don’t remember) based on him knowing them from Denmark while criticising the recruitment team for poor recruitment!

I also had one interaction through work with our analysis team during the season we were relegated under Selles. I used to meet with analysts from lots of clubs and the most laughable experience was with Saints. And I was really impressed with Bournemouth and the work they do. 

 

Who could forget when he boasted about he was personally taking charge of recruitment in that January window and we ended up with Orsic, Sulemana, Onochu for a cool £45m

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Who could forget when he boasted about he was personally taking charge of recruitment in that January window and we ended up with Orsic, Sulemana, Onochu for a cool £45m

 How could we ever forget, it’s why we are where we are now. A critically injured club.

[AlexLaw76]

23 minutes ago, SaintlyAnd said:

I got told very similar a year ago ( by a friend who used to work in analysis at the club about 7 years ago and still knows people there). He said SRs move to scouting for the whole group led to so much confusion, plus undermined and frustrated a lot of people and it took years to get them functioning. In the meantime Ankersson went off by himself bringing in Onuachu, Sulemana (plus someone else I don’t remember) based on him knowing them from Denmark while criticising the recruitment team for poor recruitment!

I also had one interaction through work with our analysis team during the season we were relegated under Selles. I used to meet with analysts from lots of clubs and the most laughable experience was with Saints. And I was really impressed with Bournemouth and the work they do. 

 

We are down here forever, if not relegated again.

Solak, Anderson and co are fucking poison for this club.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Appreciate you guys listening, thank you.

Someone above mentioned the Jones signing of Bree and the Martin signing of Downes, Fraser etc.
They’re 100% manager picked signings, but that’s the difference. Russell Martin was the manager, and he had a working relationship with Jason Wilcox.

Managers we’ve had in the last year have become interim or “head coach”.
I doubt there is much of a dynamic there.

Put it this way, if you’ve got a manager picking certain players to buy and then it doesn’t work then the next manager wants to have their own ideas, identity and change the squad.
A head coach is effectively told “if you’re in this position this is what you work with”.

This is what mismanagement of the highest level does. Costs have to be cut. What better way than to just hiring a new head coach on the cheap that has little responsibility other than picking a team on a matchday.

[sadoldgit]

I think that there is one thing we can all agree on. Whatever system the club are using, it hasn’t worked very well so far.

[Roo1976]

Do we think there might be some fresh faces coming in.....................seems like the club have settled for writing this season off,tick tock.............................

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

Do we think there might be some fresh faces coming in.....................seems like the club have settled for writing this season off,tick tock.............................

Probably not and anyone who does come in will likely be underwhelming. For me every transfer window is an opportunity to reassess the squad, to get rid of those who are surplus to requirement (not always easy if they don't want to go and are on contract) and to bring in a few players who are better than we have. I get that January is not the easiest time to do this but there are always deals to be done and players off the radar to be identified - other clubs seem able to sign players none of us have heard of who go on to do well. My overarching point is that no window is unimportant and none should be wasted because we only have two chances a year to improve the squad. Unfortunately, along with most I have zero faith in SR and Spors/Ankersen acting like a grown-up football club because they are more intent on being clever and re-inventing the wheel.

[DellBlockH]

7 minutes ago, saintant said:

Probably not and anyone who does come in will likely be underwhelming. For me every transfer window is an opportunity to reassess the squad, to get rid of those who are surplus to requirement (not always easy if they don't want to go and are on contract) and to bring in a few players who are better than we have. I get that January is not the easiest time to do this but there are always deals to be done and players off the radar to be identified - other clubs seem able to sign players none of us have heard of who go on to do well. My overarching point is that no window is unimportant and none should be wasted because we only have two chances a year to improve the squad. Unfortunately, along with most I have zero faith in SR and Spors/Ankersen acting like a grown-up football club because they are more intent on being clever and re-inventing the wheel.

I don't dispute your general point. But there's an element of confirmation bias here. We see other clubs sign players whom no-one has heard of and who go on to do well. But, as we do not follow those clubs in the same way as we do Saints, we only hear about their successes when they sign obscure players. I'm pretty sure that other clubs make signings out of the blue who turn out to have been unheard of for good reason. 

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, DellBlockH said:

I don't dispute your general point. But there's an element of confirmation bias here. We see other clubs sign players whom no-one has heard of and who go on to do well. But, as we do not follow those clubs in the same way as we do Saints, we only hear about their successes when they sign obscure players. I'm pretty sure that other clubs make signings out of the blue who turn out to have been unheard of for good reason. 

You make a fair point and clearly no club gets all their signings right and everyone wastes money on some who don't work out for whatever reason. My only counter is that we don't unearth enough nuggets of gold and I'm convinced the reason is the set up at the football club.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Roo1976 said:

Do we think there might be some fresh faces coming in.....................seems like the club have settled for writing this season off,tick tock.............................

 

54 minutes ago, saintant said:

Probably not and anyone who does come in will likely be underwhelming. For me every transfer window is an opportunity to reassess the squad, to get rid of those who are surplus to requirement (not always easy if they don't want to go and are on contract) and to bring in a few players who are better than we have. I get that January is not the easiest time to do this but there are always deals to be done and players off the radar to be identified - other clubs seem able to sign players none of us have heard of who go on to do well. My overarching point is that no window is unimportant and none should be wasted because we only have two chances a year to improve the squad. Unfortunately, along with most I have zero faith in SR and Spors/Ankersen acting like a grown-up football club because they are more intent on being clever and re-inventing the wheel.

This squad is more than good enough to be achieving a playoff finish and should be challenging for the autos. The answer isn't to get more players - its to hire a competent manager.

[coalman]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

This squad is more than good enough to be achieving a playoff finish and should be challenging for the autos. The answer isn't to get more players - its to hire a competent manager.

Hire a competent manager. Then trust them to resolve the issues with culture, training, tactics, fitness without micromanaging them based on some gambler's spreadsheet from 10 years ago.

[disconnect]

Can Tonda turn it around? As others have said, on paper the squad is more than good enough to be top 4 come the end of the season, but rubbish tactics, bizarre substitutions, a squad that feels like it's infested with a few rotten apples and with seemingly little strong leadership needs a big kick to get them firing. This comes from strong management, and a respect for the hierarchy, which I'd say we're currently lacking. 

Maybe a strong athletic (and reliable) striker signing would galvanise the squad (it certainly wouldnt hurt the fanbase), but really need the squad as a whole to be all pulling in the same direction and wanting to do well for a manager who they respect.

[vectraman]

If we don’t sign a big no.9 centre forward on loan, then that would be stupid beyond belief. Ross Stewart is a decent player, and we are a much better team with him in the side than without. Sadly he can’t do 90 minutes, and possibly/probably will get injured again soon.
With no back up for him, it completely limits how the team can play. Adam Armstrong is not a centre forward, and he needs a big guy to complement his strengths.  
Please Saints, just 1 signing, a big guy to play up front. Without that we have no flexibility at all.  
 

* I will add - an experienced, been around for a while guy, just like every other championship team seem to have.

Not a clever bollocks 18 year old who has played 11 games for Hoffeheim U21s, and never played a senior game in a proper league in his life type of signing that you seem to love…

Edited 4 hours ago by vectraman

[Willo of Whiteley]

I think we’ll be lucky to get anyone else in.

Why pay out on a striker or upgrades in certain positions when let’s face it, the board and fans alike cannot be convinced that we’re good enough to get there on large.

As much as it’s mathematically possible, why pay out more when they need to cut wages and you won’t gain from it.

Last year was a prime example. Too little to late.

[OneMrsWallace]

13 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Pretty sure managers of, for example, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace don't have any say whatsoever as to what players are purchased. Working really well for those clubs, which leads one to think they have better systems in place than sports direct / republic

I think you're probably correct with certain clubs. I just know if I managed anything in any job, I wouldn't want other people having a 100% say in who was hired/resources needed. Yes it seems to work on occasion but ultimately you take the fall for their errors when it goes wrong. I guess the risk is worth it for some and good luck to them. Unfortunately for Saints it's largely been wrong under SR. 

[UpweySaint]

18 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think we’ll be lucky to get anyone else in.

Why pay out on a striker or upgrades in certain positions when let’s face it, the board and fans alike cannot be convinced that we’re good enough to get there on large.

As much as it’s mathematically possible, why pay out more when they need to cut wages and you won’t gain from it.

Last year was a prime example. Too little to late.

I think you’re probably right though perhaps some loan options worth exploring may become viable at the end of the window. 
 

 

[DT]

15 hours ago, Appy said:

By captain you mean?

Adam Armstrong. Oh, sorry, when Stephens isn't around. Jeez. Well done. Have a biscuit

[skintsaint]

Was going to say how about Wilson from West Ham on loan, but noted Everton and Celtic want him....so no.

[Saint86]

35 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think we’ll be lucky to get anyone else in.

Why pay out on a striker or upgrades in certain positions when let’s face it, the board and fans alike cannot be convinced that we’re good enough to get there on large.

As much as it’s mathematically possible, why pay out more when they need to cut wages and you won’t gain from it.

Last year was a prime example. Too little to late.

I think the very first thing the club need to do is get in an ambitious manager for the summer - use that to generate some fresh momentum and build from there. This summer is the absolute last throw of the dice for SR - no more parachute payments, no more chances. After that Solak's investment is in almost terminal jeopardy with respect to recovery.

And sadly, the 3 prem teams coming down are nowhere near as bad this year. Burnley will be a solid champ side without the carnage of our miss management or leciester's financial implosion. Wolves are showing far more fight that we ever did under Edwards, and whoever finally takes the 18th place spot (West Ham, palace, leeds, forest, bournemouth.... even spurs 😄- sorry had to fit that one in whilst they're in freefall) will be far stronger than the recent yoyo teams. Plus we will have the likes of Brum (with another spending bender), and Wrexham (if they don't go up this year), and then one of Ipswich/coventry/boro, plus a revitalised Sheffield United. This is the weakest championship in years, over half way through the season and no relegated side in the top 2, and the other 2 out of the running for autos. Shocking mismanagement to be where we are, and they simply cannot afford to do anything but nail it next season - which is going to be a very hard ask because the championship will be exponentially tougher next season.

Edited 4 hours ago by Saint86

[suewhistle]

14 hours ago, SaintlyAnd said:

I also had one interaction through work with our analysis team during the season we were relegated under Selles. I used to meet with analysts from lots of clubs and the most laughable experience was with Saints. And I was really impressed with Bournemouth and the work they do. 

Ooh, go on, tell us more.. Nobody will lose their job, though sounds that could be a blessing..

[woodsaint1]

We need to be using up our allocated loans. At least if it doesnt work out then we're not stuck with the player on a 4/5 year contract. Would rather that than panic buying another Carrillo or Tall Paul

[BARCELONASAINT]

I have no idea if it is true but i've heard Wrexham have made an official approach to sign AA

[LeG]

Unless something has changed since last week, I believe the club are working on two players coming in before the window shuts. No other information unfortunately. 

If we can shift some of the deadwood as well, it will be a nice window. 

We can still sneak 6th... There's always a team who will make that late charge up the table, and usually they're the ones who do well in the play offs.... I don't think we are good enough to go up this season though. I'm firmly in the 'Its the players camp'. I think Tonda will have a good career. 

[SaintLondon]

As we’ve discussed plenty of times, while SR are shite, they’ve never been afraid to spend money. I imagine they’ll feel they have to bring in some reinforcements - if nothing else, to take the heat off themselves for a bit. But, as with last January, who exactly is going to want to come here?

Everyone keeps banging on about needing a big, strong number nine, but anyone half-decent isn’t choosing a mid-table Championship club unless it’s a gamble for them. And if we do sign someone, we’ll inevitably be up in arms about either (a) an unknown quantity or (b) someone with pretty underwhelming numbers. It’s a lose–lose.

To be clear, the blame sits squarely with SR - we shouldn’t be anywhere near this position in the first place. But right now they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Semmens absolutely put us in this mess by selling to SR, but on reflection I think he and the old board did a better job than I gave them credit for at the time, especially given the circumstances.

[sadoldgit]

Why wouldn’t anyone want to come here, unless they have an EPL club after them? There will always be players who see this as a good opportunity. The trick is to sign the right ones.

[SaintLondon]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Why wouldn’t anyone want to come here, unless they have an EPL club after them? There will always be players who see this as a good opportunity. The trick is to sign the right ones.

Let me rephrase, you're right, plenty will want to come here BUT I don't think they'll be able to tempt players here that we, the fans, deem better than we currently have. People have been talking about players such as Callum Wilson, Josh Sargent and Taiwo Awoniyi and I'm saying nobody of that sort of calibre is going to come here. Not a chance in hell. So, we'll be left with players who are seen as risks - lower leagues etc or young foreign imports. Obviously for every Scienza there is a Damion Downes so it's just more gambling. We shouldn't have signed Downes in the summer, we should have signed a proven Championship striker who at the time would have seen us a shoe in for top 6 and an easier sell. Once again, they opted for a clever move and once again it's not worked out. 

[Graziano94]

25 minutes ago, LeG said:

Unless something has changed since last week, I believe the club are working on two players coming in before the window shuts. No other information unfortunately. 

If we can shift some of the deadwood as well, it will be a nice window. 

We can still sneak 6th... There's always a team who will make that late charge up the table, and usually they're the ones who do well in the play offs.... I don't think we are good enough to go up this season though. I'm firmly in the 'Its the players camp'. I think Tonda will have a good career. 

Thanks for the info.

Are the club considering Armstrong as part of the ‘deadwood’ do you think? 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

57 minutes ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

I have no idea if it is true but i've heard Wrexham have made an official approach to sign AA

Armstrong needs to go, no doubt about it. But it should be at the end of this season. Don't feel comfortable selling to a potential play off rival, even if that maybe an outside chance. 

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Armstrong needs to go, no doubt about it. But it should be at the end of this season. Don't feel comfortable selling to a potential play off rival, even if that maybe an outside chance. 

If we stay in the Championship why would you not want Armstrong?

[Miltonaggro]

19 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I’ve stopped caring about the nerds doing the scouting on their laptops.  Dragan is writing the cheques and is an idiot of the highest order to keep trusting a complete load of fucking idiots who have never played the game.

He continues to trust Rasmus.  He continues to trust Spors who has lumbered us with 2 shit managers, the second of which is his pal.

I honestly hope he goes skint through all this.  What a fucking onion.

I think Spors also had a hand in bringing Juric to the club, so at least credit him with a hattrick!