Middlesbrough 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We set up to hope our defence was solid enough to absorb pressure, so we could catch them on one of our quick passing moves.

The home side, like every side that face us, showed that they are sharper, stronger and with more tactical awareness than anything we have.

The only defence that was caught out was ours, as they played it over our static back line. 

We have our SR possession system, although the world has moved on, and ours never fully convinced anyway. Every other club buys to be quick, strong, have awareness and purpose.

When we lost under Martin, there was always the feeling that we played within ourselves because of the system. Passive, reactive with no other ideas. Capitulation by design. At least we got some late points back then, with our stronger squad.

This is a combination of the worst of Martin and Selles, with the added cluelessness of Nate, Juric and Still.

All run by SR who repeatedly put all the pieces in place for such outcomes.

A shambles of a setup. 

 

[Toadhall Saint]

21 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

While I’d prefer us playing a 4 much of the time, given we had several gilt edged chances and they hadn’t had a shot on target changing shape at ht hardly seems a requirement. Once we went behind certainly though.

Correct

[Sir Ralph]

We need a manager who doesn’t pander to these melts. Step up or train with the u21s. Enough of them dictating

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Funny, a mate asked for my score prediction last night. I replied '4-0. Don't know why, just a gut instinct'. 

At half time I got a text that said 'well, it's not as bad as you predicted'.

I replied at full time. 'Only Saints could concede 4 in the second half!'. 

Wish I'd put money on it. That said, the only thing I'd put money on now is relegation. 

[BarberSaint]

18 minutes ago, Vancouver Saint said:

No leadership. No heart. Either on or off the pitch. 
I said it at half-time, our players look disinterested...they're at walking pace for throw-ins, corners...there's no sense of love of the game and wanting to play football.

56 years I've been following the Saints and never have I been so disinterested and detached myself. Honestly, I wanted 'boro to add a fifth and sixth (which they should have) to dispel any myth that this game was anything but an utter embarrassment that shows just what we are - a shambles of a collection of players.
We are not close to being a team.

How can this be the same team and manager that beat Charlton 5-1 away?

It was Charlton.

 

Managed by Nathan Jones.

 

They're punching well above their weight currently.

[Zorba]

22 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Matsuki ain't the answer.

Unless the question is..

What is Pine Tree in japanese?

[Gloucester Saint]

24 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Matsuki ain't the answer.

Another Rasmus tombola entry to make a few quid.

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Oh absolutely not, it's not about promotion next year - it's survival, 100%.

We will not be in the promotion picture ever again with SR in charge.

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

[Andy Hill]

So predictable that we would get zero with that line up and concede with that back 5. 
Need at least 5 incomings and several outgoings to freshen things up. 

[bangkoksaint]

What’s he said in the presser?

[AlexLaw76]

Tonda Eckert: "I think that we saw two games in the end. I think we played one game until 55 minutes, and we played another game after. We had more than enough chances to go up, and then I agree with you, the second part of the game was not good enough

[spyinthesky]

13 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

15th.  50 million pounds spent

And probably one of the top three playing budgets in the Championship

If you look at the cost of our current squad, it probably stands at around £160+m plus another £40m outlay on players who are out on loan.

So, say, around £200m of player transfer costs on the books against a current 'value' of £50m (??) most of that wrapped up in the selling price of  Ramsdale, Charles (if and when fit) and Scienza.

Worrying times both on and off the field.

[BarberSaint]

Worryingly far too many of that crap still have long contracts. And we won't shift them so it's another 18 months of e.g. Manning unless we get lucky and Wussell persuades his new club to come in for him/Downes/Jack, etc.

[bugenhagen]

20 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Should have lobbed all the free programmes towards the Players at the end 

Or the pies.

[AlexLaw76]

Tonda Eckert: “There are many things that we need to have a look at, not just the squad. We need to make sure that we piece them together.”

 

Tonda Eckert: “That first goal today changed everything. From what I’ve heard it’s a clear offside situation. It’s two games in one today, one until 55 minutes and one after. I’m happy with the first, the second is not acceptable.”

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

We've spent £55m this season, and we're closer to 23rd. We are 15th.

Why is next season going to mean that we are more competitive than this year? We're not going to have more money to spend next year, or better players. We're going to be up against teams stronger and better than us too.

Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

[celezte_]

ever since eckert was hired i was skeptical of how we would progress as a team with a manager whos only ever managed at youth level, this just shows the reactionary nature of the already useless board to hire a manager with no senior experience because of 4/5 decent results, which only came to fruition due to teams setting up against us to dominate possession and break us down, eg leicester, most of our goals in those games came in transition, we are seeing now when teams sit in their own half we are clueless breaking teams down, seen through the results against norwich and oxford, we now are seeing the effects of eckerts naivety and stubbornness in refusing to change how we attack or plan to score when we dominate the ball, which is now truly highlighting the horrific defending. i disagree with many that the system as a whole is the issue as we wouldn’t have beaten charlton and leicester 5-1 and 3-0 respectively, i personally believe it’s the inability to break low blocks down effectively, it looks like we don’t even have any idea on what we plan to do, highlighted by the constant belief we can use 5’6/7 adam armstrong and cameron archer as a target man we can play off. the reactionary decision of the board and naivety and stubbornness of such a young inexperienced manager has costed us big time in the last few months. i feel for eckert because he’s a tiny fish in a huge pond, i personally blame the horrendously reactionary and pathetic board, we’ve gone from a comfortably mid table prem team when they first took over to being  a now worryingly regressive championship team, the trajectory since day one has been down and down, even the season of russell matting i bribe the quality of team he had papered over the cracks of his also stubborn tactics, where i think we got lucky going up against leeds in the playoffs, as we got shat on consistently when going up, and had a more horrific time with juric, it’s been shit appointment after shit appointment from the board, they’ve never got a manager appointment right. looking increasingly worrying but just my immediate thoughts. side note i struggle to see what scienza offers other than a player who looks pretty on the ball. i don’t see the hype in scienza if im being completely honest i think he works hard for the team but his final ball has left a lot to be desired in front of goal and in terms of creating chances recently and i think if the team around him isn’t up to scratch he doesn’t offer much more than any other of the players, he’s a high risk player so he looks better than the others but his actual return hasn’t been that fantastic i think he’s incredibly overrated by our fanbase but bit of a side tangent there. board out, eckert feel for him but gotta go. 

[James]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

On what evidence? We would need, at the very least, a complete overhaul of the defensive unit and a new manager. We all know SR won’t make the changes required to have us sniffing the top six. 

[Osvaldorama]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

Not hysterical at all. That is the trajectory we are on, with owners that get every decision wrong. 
 

People have buried their heads in the sand and given SR way too much slack, for too long imo. 
 

The league will be stronger next year. I give us no chance of top six with these owners 

Edited Sunday at 17:49 by Osvaldorama

[Draino76]

Bro,  use a paragraph. SR OUT.

[Gloucester Saint]

49 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Good to see a couple of our fans there giving the squad what they deserve. A few oddballs still applauding.

Great to hear a few fans giving it out but pity about the wooden tops clapping that lack of effort and application. Truly carrot crunching behaviour.

[LGTL]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

What on earth are you basing that on? You’d have been the one last year saying we were hysterical and that we’ll easily challenge for top 6 this season. And yet here we are, over £50m spent, and we’re 15th and closer to 23rd. 

Do you actually think SR will hire a fucking capable manager after not managing to hire one from their last 5 appointments?!

Edited Sunday at 17:51 by LGTL

[Turkish]

Not the system 

 

[James]

2 minutes ago, celezte_ said:

ever since eckert was hired i was skeptical of how we would progress as a team with a manager whos only ever managed at youth level, this just shows the reactionary nature of the already useless board to hire a manager with no senior experience because of 4/5 decent results, which only came to fruition due to teams setting up against us to dominate possession and break us down, eg leicester, most of our goals in those games came in transition, we are seeing now when teams sit in their own half we are clueless breaking teams down, seen through the results against norwich and oxford, we now are seeing the effects of eckerts naivety and stubbornness in refusing to change how we attack or plan to score when we dominate the ball, which is now truly highlighting the horrific defending. i disagree with many that the system as a whole is the issue as we wouldn’t have beaten charlton and leicester 5-1 and 3-0 respectively, i personally believe it’s the inability to break low blocks down effectively, it looks like we don’t even have any idea on what we plan to do, highlighted by the constant belief we can use 5’6/7 adam armstrong and cameron archer as a target man we can play off. the reactionary decision of the board and naivety and stubbornness of such a young inexperienced manager has costed us big time in the last few months. i feel for eckert because he’s a tiny fish in a huge pond, i personally blame the horrendously reactionary and pathetic board, we’ve gone from a comfortably mid table prem team when they first took over to being  a now worryingly regressive championship team, the trajectory since day one has been down and down, even the season of russell matting i bribe the quality of team he had papered over the cracks of his also stubborn tactics, where i think we got lucky going up against leeds in the playoffs, as we got shat on consistently when going up, and had a more horrific time with juric, it’s been shit appointment after shit appointment from the board, they’ve never got a manager appointment right. looking increasingly worrying but just my immediate thoughts. side note i struggle to see what scienza offers other than a player who looks pretty on the ball. i don’t see the hype in scienza if im being completely honest i think he works hard for the team but his final ball has left a lot to be desired in front of goal and in terms of creating chances recently and i think if the team around him isn’t up to scratch he doesn’t offer much more than any other of the players, he’s a high risk player so he looks better than the others but his actual return hasn’t been that fantastic i think he’s incredibly overrated by our fanbase but bit of a side tangent there. board out, eckert feel for him but gotta go. 

No other club in our position would have even considered giving Eckert the job. The fact we did on such limited evidence, especially when the warning signs of some of those second half performances were already there, is plain bad decision making. We should have thanked him for giving us a few results and given the job to someone with the level of experience required. He may turn out to be a top manager, I highly doubt it’s going to be with us having been over promoted to a job that is clearly too big for him. We’ve essentially wasted a season as a result of Spors poor appointments. 

[Lighthouse]

Just now, James said:

On what evidence? We would need, at the very least, a complete overhaul of the defensive unit and a new manager. We all know SR won’t make the changes required to have us sniffing the top six. 

What's wrong with the defense? An average Championship keeper would have saved all but three or four of the goals we've conceded in twelve games under Tonda. Seems okay enough to me. We've scored in ten of those games too. I doubt TE will still be here in any case but we aren't going to be in a relegation fight.

[Oldandtired]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We're having a sh*t season but this is getting a bit hysterical. It's only two years since we did get promoted, without Martin or Bazunu next season we'll comfortably be in the hunt for the top six.

Which league though? Your, to me, unfounded optimism is not shared here.

Edited Sunday at 17:52 by Oldandtired

[bangkoksaint]

Absolutely Gloucester. Whilst I applaud those fans and no doubt they’ll be at Donny and up at the crack of dawn for Pompey it’s that blind loyalty that the club depends on. 

[James]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

What's wrong with the defense? An average Championship keeper would have saved all but three or four of the goals we've conceded in twelve games under Tonda. Seems okay enough to me. We've scored in ten of those games too. I doubt TE will still be here in any case but we aren't going to be in a relegation fight.

What’s wrong with the defence? You cannot be serious. I don’t like Bazunu at all but the idea that we’d be top six purely as a result of swapping him out for a more competent keeper is deluded. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, celezte_ said:

i don’t see the hype in scienza if im being completely honest i think he works hard for the team but his final ball has left a lot to be desired in front of goal and in terms of creating chances recently and i think if the team around him isn’t up to scratch he doesn’t offer much more than any other of the players, he’s a high risk player so he looks better than the others but his actual return hasn’t been that fantastic i think he’s incredibly overrated by our fanbase

Im starting to feel similar. Played exceptionally for the first half a dozen Tonda games, but has done fuck all lately. Becoming a bit of a show pony. Opposition seem to have sussed out how to stop him. It happens to every player of this type, and the best ones find a way of overcoming it. The ones that don’t disappear back to a softer league. I’m leaning towards the second outcome at the moment. 

[bangkoksaint]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Great to hear a few fans giving it out but pity about the wooden tops clapping that lack of effort and application. Truly carrot crunching behaviour.

 

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not the system 

 

Alfie……..ask this question, which we all want to know…… ‘Are you wedded to a system which the owners want you to play?’ ……..it’s that simple…..have some guts and be a fucking proper journalist

[Gloucester Saint]

4 minutes ago, James said:

What’s wrong with the defence? You cannot be serious. I don’t like Bazunu at all but the idea that we’d be top six purely as a result of swapping him out for a more competent keeper is deluded. 

Although at least even Lighthouse has stopped the Koolaid around Gavin at last. Welcome to the fold.

Ping Pong, Jordy’s mate, still at it.

[saintant]

58 minutes ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I don't blame Sport Republic, they have spent the money. Who the hell is advising them?

Rasmus fucking Ankersen.

[manji]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We've spent £55m this season, and we're closer to 23rd. We are 15th.

Why is next season going to mean that we are more competitive than this year? We're not going to have more money to spend next year, or better players. We're going to be up against teams stronger and better than us too.

Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

I’m still going with the , best we don’t go up this season ( although that’s not exactly incredible foresight) and promoted next season better stronger. I’m not arguing with you BTW. But what makes you say we aren’t going to have more money/better players ?
 

I’m trying to be pragmatic. I want to believe we have a plan. The club does want to get promoted, we have a vision.
Anyone who reads is there’s plenty of understandably negative comments so just hear me out.
Maybe because I’m older from an era where fans didn’t expect instant results. I can remember going away to Everton ( and that was a lively afternoon ) getting thrashed 8-0 the following Saturday stuffing Boro 4-0. Obviously no social media and instant fan reaction but I don’t remember the fans getting hysterical. It was what the way things were. 

[Streaky]

18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

We've spent £55m this season, and we're closer to 23rd. We are 15th.

Why is next season going to mean that we are more competitive than this year? We're not going to have more money to spend next year, or better players. We're going to be up against teams stronger and better than us too.

Doesn't add up I'm afraid.

Exactly less money in parachute payments and better teams coming down with bigger parachute payments. We will be stuck here some time. Can't see Scienza sticking around after this calamity season either.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not the system 

 

Flipping heck.

Trolling us now. He cant see that we give up midfield and drop back in every game?!

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not the system 

 

I was expecting a response like that. It's absolute bollocks.

[saintant]

53 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Doesn't that sum the group up though?

They are all weak as absolute piss. Scared of their own shadows, get floored by any single piece of adversity. 

These are not the guys you'd want anywhere near the trenches when the going really does get tough. Hopefully Romeu lumps them all in the changing room.

Yeah, feeble weaklings who didn't even have the courage to face the fans who'd travelled in bad conditions. Every player should have been across to applaud them and take the deserved flak for a pathetic performance. Man up and take the consequences because they earn a fucking shedload of money for serving up this crap. 

[beatlesaint]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not the system 

 

I have resisted buying into this theory that all the managers are being told to play this way by Wankerson and co.

I’m now converted cos I literally can see no reason why you would carry on with this crap unless you are under orders to do so.

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, James said:

What’s wrong with the defence? You cannot be serious. I don’t like Bazunu at all but the idea that we’d be top six purely as a result of swapping him out for a more competent keeper is deluded. 

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

[manji]

15 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

Which league though? Your, to me, unfounded optimism is not shared here.

So we have to be negative to get the “likes” and be in with posters on here ? 

[hypochondriac]

Let's say it really has nothing at all to do with the system. If that is the case then what do you really have to lose by trying a change? He must know the fans are begging for it and we are not winning regardless.

[Sir Ralph]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I was expecting a response like that. It's absolute bollocks.

If that’s his genuine view he should be sacked for not being able to see something that everyone else can

[saint michael]

5 minutes ago, manji said:

I’m still going with the , best we don’t go up this season ( although that’s not exactly incredible foresight) and promoted next season better stronger. I’m not arguing with you BTW. But what makes you say we aren’t going to have more money/better players ?
 

I’m trying to be pragmatic. I want to believe we have a plan. The club does want to get promoted, we have a vision.
Anyone who reads is there’s plenty of understandably negative comments so just hear me out.
Maybe because I’m older from an era where fans didn’t expect instant results. I can remember going away to Everton ( and that was a lively afternoon ) getting thrashed 8-0 the following Saturday stuffing Boro 4-0. Obviously no social media and instant fan reaction but I don’t remember the fans getting hysterical. It was what the way things were. 

I’m of the same era and went to some of those games. We might have been shit but this feels well different. This feels like we are heading for collapse of the club again. There are no positive foundations currently at the club. 

[lambtiss]

20 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not the system 

 

Are you Fabrice in disguise?

[manji]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

I hope you are being serious not ironic. I want believe. 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you replaced Bazunu with an average League 1 keeper, then since Tonda took over we'd have:

• Beaten Millwall 2-1, as he'd have saved the first and third
• Beaten Norwich 1-0, as he'd have saved the first at his near post and come out and caught the second
• Drawn 1-1 at Oxford as their winner was nowhere near the keeper
• Beaten Birmingham 1-0, as he wouldn't have flapped at that looping header.
• Lost 1-0 today but that's our only defeat and the GD would be much better than after a 4-0.

 

That gives us a record of P13 W9 D3 L1. 30 points from 13 games, which is easily promotion form. We've got just under two weeks to get the Peretz deal ironed out, then things are going to start looking a lot better.

Who has stolen Lighthouse and what have they have done with him!

[S-Clarke]

14 minutes ago, manji said:

I’m still going with the , best we don’t go up this season ( although that’s not exactly incredible foresight) and promoted next season better stronger. I’m not arguing with you BTW. But what makes you say we aren’t going to have more money/better players ?
 

I’m trying to be pragmatic. I want to believe we have a plan. The club does want to get promoted, we have a vision.
Anyone who reads is there’s plenty of understandably negative comments so just hear me out.
Maybe because I’m older from an era where fans didn’t expect instant results. I can remember going away to Everton ( and that was a lively afternoon ) getting thrashed 8-0 the following Saturday stuffing Boro 4-0. Obviously no social media and instant fan reaction but I don’t remember the fans getting hysterical. It was what the way things were. 

I respect you for sticking at it and still trying to believe, but come on Manji - it's over. There's nothing left for SR here, they need to lock up and go. We can continue to hope and believe, because all we'll do is hope and believe ourselves to L2.

We spent £55m in the summer which was a record amount for a Championship club, granted a lot of that was generated from the sales of Dibling & Fernandes. £60mish between both of them.

Who are we selling in the summer for 30m fee's, let alone 60m combined? No one. We might get a few mill for Shea Charles for 1 year left, we may get around £15-20m for Leo if someone gambles - we might get 5-6m for THB if we sell up? We might get £15m for Ramsdale at a push? Then when you combine that reduced transfer income with a smaller parachute pot, and 3 teams coming down with PL squads and parachute pots, then it's probably fair expect us to be well off it. 

You can't really compare us with a Coventry or a Sunderland coming from the edges to the promotion push the next season, because those two clubs were building over time. They had a plan, they had a squad, they just had to tweak here and there. 

We have nothing. We are in complete freefall and have been for the last 12 months. There is no magic formula or 'positivity' that's going to fix this, it's hope casting at this point. The only 'hope casting' we should be doing is wishing for new ownership and trying to get SR as far away from this club as we can, ASAP.

Edited Sunday at 18:19 by S-Clarke

[Football Special]

48 minutes ago, SaintsfanSwindon said:

Absolutely appalling -Sport Republic have to go. They have presided over the worst period of our history, every decision they have made has been a shambles. The Branfoot era was bad but at least the players were limited but put in a shift and actually showed a bit of passion for the club. 

The Branfoot era in retrospect wasn't that bad, it was tactical disagreement between manager and fans but we actually were never relegated and had some great cup runs, low budget for the league , compared to now where the incompetence is truly mind-blowing, every single person at board level should be deeply ashamed to be this bad at their jobs 

[Toussaint]

41 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

We need a manager who doesn’t pander to these melts. Step up or train with the u21s. Enough of them dictating

It’s my suspicion that’s why we find it so difficult to appoint anyone, no self respecting manager is going to concede so much autonomy to the overlords. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

37 minutes ago, bangkoksaint said:

What’s he said in the presser?

The usual drivel.

We need to be better bollocks.