Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Ldnsaint]

The fact that you can access it via the golf course is completely irrelevant, you can't record the opposition's training within 72 hours of the match. 

If it's just this one incident I think it'll be a big fine and a small points deduction, if there's proof it's over multiple games then I think we probably will get removed from the play-offs. 

That Louorns guy on X obviously has a personal issue with Saints/Tonda but without doubt he's itk and is sure we've done this before this season. 

[James G]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Because that’s when most teams work on their shape & set pieces with the  players who are starting the game. 

The thing is, Middlesbrough are poor from set pieces, why would we want to watch them

There is literally no reason to spy on them, which makes me think there is more to the story 

[ally_uk]

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Do we think any clubs adapt their approach to training specifically because of this rule?

I.e. is the norm for any match day specific tactical training to only ever take place in the 3 days leading up to a game? Seems unlikely.

Why is it unlikely. Chances are they’ll have midweek game in this league, if they don’t Monday would be a light day I’d imagine. What with injuries & other  factors I doubt the manager knows his starting 11 much before that. This figure wasn’t just plucked out of thin air. It was specifically set to stop sides spying to see line ups and set plays/shape. 

[sockeye]

3 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

Personally I think we probably were but slipped up this time and did it inside the 72-hour window by mistake or just trying to chance it. That’s why you have ITKs saying we’ve done it before. 
 

I also think other teams do the same which is why Hull etc. have no interest in helping Boro out with the case.

Edited Friday at 12:13 by sockeye

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

The fact that you can access it via the golf course is completely irrelevant, you can't record the opposition's training within 72 hours of the match. 

If it's just this one incident I think it'll be a big fine and a small points deduction, if there's proof it's over multiple games then I think we probably will get removed from the play-offs. 

That Louorns guy on X obviously has a personal issue with Saints/Tonda but without doubt he's itk and is sure we've done this before this season. 

My question is why haven’t the other clubs reported it to the EFL? Surely that would be aware as you would think Boro would have spoken to them out of courtesy given they will be naming them in a disciplinary hearing that could have a baring on their league position should Saints be docked points for this season.

[SNSUN]

Boro Forum in a nutshell (or nuthouse more like): Denouncing Richard Keys because he posted that our spying did not affect the outcome of the semi final, but believing what Talkshite say about their reinstatement as gospel. Mad as a box of frogs on there. 

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

Legit. 

How much advantage do you realistically gain ? 

[Toadhall Saint]

2 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Personally I think we probably were but slipped up this time and did it inside the 72-hour window by mistake. That’s why you have ITKs saying we’ve done it before. 
 

I also think other teams do the same which is why Hull etc. have no interest in helping Boro out with the case.

Must be why we lost to Man City eh? 😉

Edited Friday at 12:15 by Toadhall Saint

[ally_uk]

I guess you would gain insight into style of play, tactics I.e set pieces, any potential weaknesses to exploit and counter. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, sockeye said:

 That’s why you have ITKs saying we’ve done it before. 
 

How do you know they are ITK ?

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

The fact that you can access it via the golf course is completely irrelevant, you can't record the opposition's training within 72 hours of the match. 

If it's just this one incident I think it'll be a big fine and a small points deduction, if there's proof it's over multiple games then I think we probably will get removed from the play-offs. 

That Louorns guy on X obviously has a personal issue with Saints/Tonda but without doubt he's itk and is sure we've done this before this season. 

He does and talks like he 'knows' stuff. States as a fact that 6 other clubs have provided 'evidence' to the EFL that we did this to them. Also states that Tonda is all over it

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Seems like the “spying” is a standard practice at many clubs which is generally accepted as a gentleman’s agreement for X Y Z reason. Gibson, frustrated at Boro’s crap end to the season and/or not understanding this gentleman’s agreement has decided to pursue a charge to try and get Boro to the PL by any means necessary/to punish us out of jealousy.

 

that’s how I see it

Spot on. It goes on, everyone knows it, everyone does it and a blind eye is turned. That is until Boro decided to act all hurt and hard done by and lobbing every toy out of the pram. I'm certain they do it themselves.

[sockeye]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

How do you know they are ITK ?

“Alleged” ITKs I should say

[skintsaint]

6 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Certainly does make you think..... 

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

I don’t think it made much difference, but do we really believe this was the first time we’d done it. 
 

Twist it round the other way. Tonda caught Frank Lampard by surprise with his shape up there. Imagine if they’d managed to spy on us and knew what we were doing, so changed his line up and shape to counter us. Would people on here be making excuses or would some be jumping up and down. You only have to read the match day threads and the countless times opponents should have been sent off or penalties awarded to know the answer to that. 

Edited Friday at 12:18 by Lord Duckhunter

[sockeye]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Must be why we lost to Man City eh? 😉

Exactly, forget kid interns, they probably had the Emirati secret service on our asses

[badgerx16]

Just now, ally_uk said:

I guess you would gain insight into style of play, tactics I.e set pieces, any potential weaknesses to exploit and counter. 

Which of course you cannot work out from watching publicly available full match videos of every game they play ?

[Ldnsaint]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

He does and talks like he 'knows' stuff. States as a fact that 6 other clubs have provided 'evidence' to the EFL that we did this to them. Also states that Tonda is all over it

He knew the EFL statement was coming out 10 minutes before and has got most of it right so far. There's clearly some bias/personal issue as he is so strong on it but can't deny he is itk

[SNSUN]

4 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

IMO: Our amazing run in was mostly because we had Premier League quality players still in our line up being played in their best positions, and the other teams don't. Opposition managers have been commenting on that all season. We also had our best Janurary transfer window in years, if not ever, bringing in Peretz and Larin and bringing Bree back. That's why we've gone on a long unbeaten run, not because we potentially spied on a few teams to learn probably not a lot about them that we already knew. Our recent form has nothing to do with the spying.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

Then what about our unbeaten run under Martin?

Watching another team training is a miniscule advantage. You will not learn anything that can't be ascertained from watching videos of their games. You might get information about individual players and thei fitness.

[Ldnsaint]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Which of course you cannot work out from watching publicly available full match videos of every game they play ?

Can't believe the amount of fans saying this 😂 There is obviously an advantage to be gained otherwise we wouldn't have done it 

[Smirking_Saint]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Legit. 

How much advantage do you realistically gain ? 

I think if it has this much of an impact then you’d see two things happening..

1. Every club would be doing it to gain an advantage, you’d see drones etc not a 17 yr old with a nokia and a clipboard

2. Training grounds would be completely locked down

The fact the above isn’t happening tells me immediately that its not a big deal as far as advantage is concerned 

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Things is regarding our amazing run do you think it was legit ? Or could we of been spying on other clubs? 

Certainly does make you think..... 

So we only started doing it at the start of this amazing run? We didn't do it when Boro thumped us 4-0?

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, Ldnsaint said:

Can't believe the amount of fans saying this 😂 There is obviously an advantage to be gained otherwise we wouldn't have done it 

Yeah but not much… its why its so fucking embarrassing, because the risk doesn’t weigh well against the reward

At most we’d see if Hackney was fit… thats about it, maybe penalty or set pieces at best.. its just not worth this aggro at all

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, SNSUN said:

IMO: Our amazing run in was mostly because we had Premier League quality players still in our line up being played in their best positions, and the other teams don't. Opposition managers have been commenting on that all season. We also had our best Janurary transfer window in years, if not ever, bringing in Peretz and Larin and bringing Bree back. That's why we've gone on a long unbeaten run, not because we potentially spied on a few teams to learn probably not a lot about them that we already knew. Our recent form has nothing to do with the spying.

Also having a squad that allows constant refreshing of players. 

[SNSUN]

1 minute ago, sockeye said:

Exactly, forget kid interns, they probably had the Emirati secret service on our asses

We're rich, but we're not Man City rich.

[James G]

I bet Steve Gibson is telling the papers to write, I can't believe Southampton spied on our training pitches from the car park of Rockcliffe Hall, which not only has excellent spa facilities but also has an site golf course

[Lord Duckhunter]

Bielsa gave a long explanation and presentation as to what he hope to achieve from it, I don’t recall too many people saying “what a load of old pony, there’s no advantage to be gained”. Do people think the EFL put this rule in for no good reason (although some of our Nods probably think they did it as an anti saints conspiracy). 
 

 

[Saint NL]

3 minutes ago, James G said:

I bet Steve Gibson is telling the papers to write, I can't believe Southampton spied on our training pitches from the car park of Rockcliffe Hall, which not only has excellent spa facilities but also has an site golf course

And if you use the code #spygate, you get 15% off bookings, offer expires on Tuesday.

[James G]

10 minutes ago, Ldnsaint said:

He knew the EFL statement was coming out 10 minutes before and has got most of it right so far. There's clearly some bias/personal issue as he is so strong on it but can't deny he is itk

I think the Middlesbrough forum knew the EFL statement was coming out too

I think people do know stuff, but they are mixing in spin and fake news with fact to create this whirlwind of drama

I've seen posts on X that were definitely fake, then an article in one of their local papers based on the X post

I've never seen anything like it

If it wasn't for Keir Starmer, we'd probably be the top news story

[SNSUN]

What time is the hearing? I want to make sure I have internet access when the result is announced, plus I need time to prepare AI photos related to whatever the outcome will be. 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Who appointed them (we have a say) doesn't stop an appeal against verdict or penalty. If we avoid adverse findings, or get adverse findings but a penalty which the EFL feel is unduly lenient, they could theoretically appeal.

What's needed, assuming guilt, is a penalty which nobody is overjoyed with, but both sides can live with. That way, an appeal is off the table, and we can move on...no tribunal chair wants to be appealed. 

 

Yep. Classic goal of any negotiation - everyone leaves feeling slightly annoyed that they didn’t get exactly what they wanted but are given just enough that they can accept it. 

[Barry the Badger]

If we have been doing it systematically, surely it can't have been as amatuer as that photo suggests this was or we'd have been caught long ago. 

Something still doesn't quite add up to me. 

[Southner]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Well if the oracles Ashley Williams and Cundy have spoken I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief. 

But they are high profile, highly thought of pundits.

IMO, they should be asked to sit in on the disciplinary hearing. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

1 minute ago, Barry the Badger said:

If we have been doing it systematically, surely it can't have been as amatuer as that photo suggests this was or we'd have been caught long ago. 

Something still doesn't quite add up to me. 

No, nor me. I will be interested to hear what evidence and facts come out at the hearing next week. The photo on the back page of my paper this morning makes the 'spy' look a right prat. 

[James G]

2 minutes ago, Barry the Badger said:

If we have been doing it systematically, surely it can't have been as amatuer as that photo suggests this was or we'd have been caught long ago. 

Something still doesn't quite add up to me. 

Also, Will Salt was spying on the supplementary training pitch. If the main team were training on that pitch and not on the main training pitch round the back, how did Will Salt know where to film

[RedArmy]

Just now, James G said:

how did Will Salt know where to film

Presumably because there were a load of Boro first team players running around on it? 

[hypochondriac]

43 minutes ago, Southner said:

But they are high profile, highly thought of pundits.

IMO, they should be asked to sit in on the disciplinary hearing. 

Even Cundy's mum doesn't think highly of him. 

Edited Friday at 13:19 by hypochondriac

[DH93]

Interesting to see if anything drops this afternoon as seemingly the committee is meeting today. Can confirm Coventry did not supply any evidence of us spying on them so that’s another ticked off 

Edited Friday at 12:45 by DH93

[Saint NL]

 

Not #spygate related, but if Arsenal now don't win the league can they sue VAR for getting the call wrong in a game they weren't even playing in? 

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my football on a pitch rather than a courtroom.

 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

12 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

What time is the hearing? I want to make sure I have internet access when the result is announced, plus I need time to prepare AI photos related to whatever the outcome will be. 

Maybe we need to get a man on the inside? Anyone know someone with a background in spying?

Edited Friday at 12:46 by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

[Dman]

Just now, Saint NL said:

 

Not #spygate related, but if Arsenal now don't win the league can they sue VAR for getting the call wrong in a game they weren't even playing in? 

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer my football on a pitch rather than a courtroom.

 

Another reason to fuck off VAR by the way. opens up these sort of debates. 

[trousers]

46 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Seems like the “spying” is a standard practice at many clubs which is generally accepted as a gentleman’s agreement for X Y Z reason. Gibson, frustrated at Boro’s crap end to the season and/or not understanding this gentleman’s agreement has decided to pursue a charge to try and get Boro to the PL by any means necessary/to punish us out of jealousy.

 

that’s how I see it

Yep, that's probably it in a nutshell.

I definitely reckon there'll be other clubs thinking "shit, we could get caught up in this next", especially if it goes to appeal and/or the scope of investigation broadens 

Edited Friday at 12:51 by trousers

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, that's probably it in a nutshell

Gibson is obviously not a gentleman. 

[sockeye]

5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, that's probably it in a nutshell.

I definitely reckon there'll be other clubs thinking "shit, we could get caught up in this next", especially if it goes to appeal and/or the scope of investigation broadens 

Prompting the 22 other clubs to stand up and say “No, I’m Spy-tacus!”

[O_B]

So our season was f'kd up at the start by Willy Still and, at the end, by Willy Salt.

No more Willys please.

[leesaint88]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yep, that's probably it in a nutshell.

I definitely reckon there'll be other clubs thinking "shit, we could get caught up in this next", especially if it goes to appeal and/or the scope of investigation broadens 

Possibly the reason why those 'named' by apparent 'Boro sources have since distanced themselves..

I remember many years ago before Staplewood was developed, the youth teams would sometimes play on a Wednesday or Thursday on the main pitch. A few occasions you would see coaches from opposing teams walk round the hedge to watch the first team. Often a few days before a game...

[skintsaint]

1 minute ago, O_B said:

So our season was f'kd up at the start by Willy Still and, at the end, by Willy Salt.

No more Willys please.

[SNSUN]

Just now, O_B said:

So our season was f'kd up at the start by Willy Still and, at the end, by Willy Salt.

No more Willys please.