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Posted
23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I don't disagree but he'd have to be a hell of a find to replace the leadership, desire and ability at least to some degree of THB whilst not being good enough to get into the forest squad. Let's not forget he's replacing our best player. Forest isn't like Chelsea or city where they have a hoard of top quality youngsters who can't get in the squad.

THB is nowhere near our best player.

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Posted
1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

I've never heard of Zach Abbott either.

But I have heard of "appearances" and I have heard of "this guy has has some significant league experience".

Any of them could be good or terrible for us but what is clearly is the kid from Forest was not the top of our list.

But yeah, laugh away.

Hence why he's coming in on loan? Because our top choices didn't want to come or were too expensive?

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Posted
Just now, James said:

Exactly, it may be that our top targets were over ambitious but surely there are other options rather than a 20 year old youth prospect….

Or it may be that this 20 year old youth player is absolute quality and views us as a stepping stone, like Lavia and THB. I don’t know if he’s any good or not but I trust Spors. 
FWIW, I reckon we shown interest in some top young CBs and their agents have used us to drum up interest, then sacked us off, leaving us high and dry. 

Posted
Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

Is 13 appearances in adult football experienced then Jordan?

You didn’t say experienced did you? You said three first team appearances.  Like I said, if you’re going to criticise based on facts, make them factual.

Posted
1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

Panic over, statement of intent, Spanish signing unveiled 

IMG_5393.png

Is he LAMINE's crapper twin brother? Because that's our style. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

If he’s good, why does this bother you?

Bit of a silly question, if he’s good no one will care. Think most are concerned that we will be considerably worse going from THB to a 20 year old from Forest. I suspect we will be starting Wood most of the season with this lad on the bench.

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Posted
Just now, Farmer Saint said:

THB is nowhere near our best player.

Football is all about opinions. For me he is our best player by quite a distance. Certainly our biggest threat from set pieces and our best defender in a back 4. More consistent than some of the other contenders too.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You didn’t say experienced did you? You said three first team appearances.  Like I said, if you’re going to criticise based on facts, make them factual.

I said he’s inexperienced.

When Spors has been perspiring from all the transfer activity, you’ll be off to the dry cleaners midweek with his suit and shirts. That’ll be nice for you. 

Edited by Gloucester Saint
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Posted
1 minute ago, Scoobysaint said:

Or it may be that this 20 year old youth player is absolute quality and views us as a stepping stone, like Lavia and THB. I don’t know if he’s any good or not but I trust Spors. 
FWIW, I reckon we shown interest in some top young CBs and their agents have used us to drum up interest, then sacked us off, leaving us high and dry. 

Let’s be honest, if he was “absolute quality” he’d already be starting for Forest wouldn’t he? They are a mid table side…

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Posted

Just who you want replacing the best CB in the division is a kid with 13 total appearances. Delighted!

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Posted

So we got good money for Charles and didn't replace him and good money for THB and look like replacing him with a young inexperienced lad with potential. The money situation must be dire.

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Posted
Just now, James said:

Bit of a silly question, if he’s good no one will care.

Cool, glad we agreed on that detail. Shall we wait to see if he is or not before we panic then?

Posted
23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If it's that and a backup gk and that's the window how would people feel? Keeping Scienza and Jander would be massive and a big tick but I can't help but feel we haven't managed to leave it all out there in order to win promotion. 

To be honest: Pretty close to what I was expecting. Expected us to sell Charles and THB all along, based on Dragans comments. Replaced by JWP and Schlotterbeck, and Mubama replacing Stewart. Keeping Jander and Leo was not given, but I had hopes we would. Getting another good CB would be great, but above my expectations.

Posted
1 minute ago, James said:

Let’s be honest, if he was “absolute quality” he’d already be starting for Forest wouldn’t he? They are a mid table side…

Yes that was my point. Or at least be a regular on their bench. Why do an average side like forest see an absolute quality youngster as surplus to requirements?

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You didn’t say experienced did you? You said three first team appearances.  Like I said, if you’re going to criticise based on facts, make them factual.

3 or 13 it’s still the same point: We are replacing arguably the best CB in the division with someone with less than half a season of first team experience. It’s a big gamble for a club with ambition of automatic promotion. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, saintant said:

So we got good money for Charles and didn't replace him and good money for THB and look like replacing him with a young inexperienced lad with potential. The money situation must be dire.

It looks that way. JWP was a helpful distraction technique. 

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Posted
Just now, bugenhagen said:

To be honest: Pretty close to what I was expecting. Expected us to sell Charles and THB all along, based on Dragans comments. Replaced by JWP and Schlotterbeck, and Mubama replacing Stewart. Keeping Jander and Leo was not given, but I had hopes we would. Getting another good CB would be great, but above my expectations.

Whatever JWP's attributes I don't think you can consider him an adequate replacement for Charles.

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Posted

brother in law is a Forest fan. Says he's decent. Would be a very good loan for us. Also said he would be surprised if there was a purchase option as very highly regarded at Forest. Played the cup semi final against City and looked fine. Played most of the Europa games last season. Some at RB. 

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Posted

Obviously the window isn't concluded yet but IF this is our business then personally I think we are worse in defence, lacking something in the centre of midfield and praying that Larin stays fit until January at least. I think a lot will have to go right for us to challenge near the top if this is the end of our business.

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Posted
Just now, saintant said:

Whatever JWP's attributes I don't think you can consider him an adequate replacement for Charles.

Still, I think you will see that he will end up being just that (not comparing attributes, just one out, one in)

Posted
5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think most people were expecting a fair amount of experience at a high level, someone who can replicate as much as possible some of THB's attributes so someone who can play the ball out, be a bit of a threat in the opposition's box. As a bonus you might want to target someone who has had success in a league such as as a promotion but definitely someone with a bit of experience for me is most important. You need a calm head at the back because that is where we are shakiest for me. Bringing in a youngster with potential is in my opinion rather risky even if he does turn out to be half decent. If he is that good though I'd be questioning why a lower league prem outfit like Forest are happy for him to leave.

You don’t know this guys attributes though do you? So you don’t know how much his replicate THB. That’s before even considering that replicating the attributes of someone just signing for a Champions League team seems a bit ambitious to me.

It’s obviously a risk, hence the loan but every signing is a risk. Splashing a nice figure on someone that a message board convinced themselves over night was perfect also seems a risk to me but given the clubs job is to scout and watch these guys I’m going to wait and see how it pans out before shitting the bed. 

But I also suggested someone on here should do that before Millwall so maybe it’s a character flaw. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, James said:

Let’s be honest, if he was “absolute quality” he’d already be starting for Forest wouldn’t he? They are a mid table side…

their CBs are pretty fucking good. They have turned down £50m bids for Murrillo and Milenkovic is solid as a rock. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, 23rdSaint said:

Hence why he's coming in on loan? Because our top choices didn't want to come or were too expensive?

You're sneering at players with experience of playing week in, week out in senior league football as "some guy from Norway, some guy from Germany". I doubt you'd be so dismissive if we had just signed them.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, James said:

3 or 13 it’s still the same point: We are replacing arguably the best CB in the division with someone with less than half a season of first team experience. It’s a big gamble for a club with ambition of automatic promotion. 

It’s not though is it. 3 is not 13, especially when you say 3. And even if you specifically put it in fancy italics for effect, it’s literally not the same.

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Posted
1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Obviously the window isn't concluded yet but IF this is our business then personally I think we are worse in defence, lacking something in the centre of midfield and praying that Larin stays fit until January at least. I think a lot will have to go right for us to challenge near the top if this is the end of our business.

We are incredibly reliant on Larin staying fit and firing all season. If we have to go a long stretch relying on Mubama (and whoever is left on the bench) we will be in trouble considering we are unquestionably weaker at the back without THB and have also lost his goal threat.

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Posted
Just now, hypochondriac said:

Obviously the window isn't concluded yet but IF this is our business then personally I think we are worse in defence, lacking something in the centre of midfield and praying that Larin stays fit until January at least. I think a lot will have to go right for us to challenge near the top if this is the end of our business.

The lack of a quality replacement for THB, someone to drive with the ball in midfield and another taller striker to rotate with Larin turns us from what I was hoping would be a 1-4th contending team to 5th to 10th. Not a disaster but poor stuff when you think the last two seasons have been null and void. 

Posted
1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

You're sneering at players with experience of playing week in, week out in senior league football as "some guy from Norway, some guy from Germany". I doubt you'd be so dismissive if we had just signed them.

Probably would have waited to see them play before dismissing them and their experience…which is the point. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes that was my point. Or at least be a regular on their bench. Why do an average side like forest see an absolute quality youngster as surplus to requirements?

Also they play 3 at the back, so he must be a fair way down the pecking order despite what all these Forest fans seem to be saying about him.

Posted

The biggest issue I see is if Larin gets injured.. I think our striker options are worse than our defensive ones.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Probably would have waited to see them play before dismissing them and their experience…which is the point. 

This guy hasn't got any experience to dismiss, which is the point.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

It’s not though is it. 3 is not 13, especially when you say 3. And even if you specifically put it in fancy italics for effect, it’s literally not the same.

3 is not experienced, 13 is still not experienced which is clearly the point that was being made which you’ve just ignored for the sake of being pedantic. 

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Posted
Just now, madge said:

The biggest issue I see is if Larin gets injured.. I think our striker options are worse than our defensive ones.

I'm surprised people aren't making more of this. 

At the moment I think we are considerably weaker than last season, despite Solak promising otherwise. 

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Posted
Just now, madge said:

The biggest issue I see is if Larin gets injured.. I think our striker options are worse than our defensive ones.

If Larin gets injured then I think we just find anyone who has played less than 10 professional games and chuck them in, will be fine no problem.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

You're sneering at players with experience of playing week in, week out in senior league football as "some guy from Norway, some guy from Germany". I doubt you'd be so dismissive if we had just signed them.

I think you're getting me confused with another poster. I'm agreeing with you – Abbott doesn't appear to be our first choice, hence why we're bringing him in on a loan and not splashing the cash on another choice other aside from "some guy from Norway" and "some guy from Austria"...

Posted
3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

You don’t know this guys attributes though do you? So you don’t know how much his replicate THB. That’s before even considering that replicating the attributes of someone just signing for a Champions League team seems a bit ambitious to me.

It’s obviously a risk, hence the loan but every signing is a risk. Splashing a nice figure on someone that a message board convinced themselves over night was perfect also seems a risk to me but given the clubs job is to scout and watch these guys I’m going to wait and see how it pans out before shitting the bed. 

But I also suggested someone on here should do that before Millwall so maybe it’s a character flaw. 

Replicating someone's attributes doesn't mean that any signing we make woukd be as good as the person they are replacing. And I said that for me experience was a key attribute and we know this lad doesn't currently have that. He could be brilliant and I'm sure he's got lots of potential but we need to get promoted this season. I'm not shitting the bed or getting upset and it's pretty tiring that you're in every signing reaction comment for every player banging the same drum. People thought Larin was a crap signing and he was great. People thought Fellows was a great signing and he's been pretty poor so far. People are allowed initial opinions about signings prior to them playing for us. If you find opinions so irritating then I suggest you just avoid message boards until he's played ten games and then come and talk about him.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

For what it’s worth, lad I know from work who supports Forest really rates him. Has captained England youth teams, played regularly in Europa League for them last season and has just been unlucky that Murillo and Milenkovic have had such a decent partnership together that he hasn’t had more minutes. 

Plus he can play right-back too which helps cover for Bree. 

Plus forest have just bought Munoz from Palace,so another restricted chance to play ,good luck to the lad,there must be something someone has seen to go and get him,although its tight towards the end of the transfer window were hampered but THB sell going through,and im with others on here,never heard of the 2 foreign players before they got mentioned and honestly Abbott wasnt on my players to look out for,just interested in what Saints do really.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Big difference in the profiles and experience of the two defenders linked and the kiddy signed on loan for a key position in the spine with a whopping three PL first team appearances and 13 in all comps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Abbott

Needed to be a first choice CB. Needless gamble unless the finances were so bad.

Why did you post his Wikipedia page again? I don't think anyone thinks you're making it up.

Posted
1 minute ago, James said:

3 is not experienced, 13 is still not experienced which is clearly the point that was being made which you’ve just ignored for the sake of being pedantic. 

Actually I didn’t ignore anything. I directly quoted the point that was being made and took issue with the 3 first team appearances comments, which stupidly I thought meant 3 first team appearances as fact and therefore I pointed out that’s not correct

Posted
1 minute ago, James said:

We are incredibly reliant on Larin staying fit and firing all season. If we have to go a long stretch relying on Mubama (and whoever is left on the bench) we will be in trouble considering we are unquestionably weaker at the back without THB and have also lost his goal threat.

I actually think we are stronger in the striker position if Larin gets injured. Had Stewart been our backup, he would have broken down soon after, or just been able to play limited minutes/start every other game. I would love to have enough good players in every position that we can suffer injuries to Larin, Peretz, Downes, Leo, Finn etc - but that won't happen. I would guess that Tonda is pretty happy with the squad, both in terms of size and backup.

Posted
12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes that was my point. Or at least be a regular on their bench. Why do an average side like forest see an absolute quality youngster as surplus to requirements?

Because the Premier League is a completely different level to the Championship?

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Posted

I think we’ve set our sights high on Affengruber and Falchener and got burnt (Gakpo and Ramos vines here). Even the Dortmund option has good pedigree for his age with the Italy call up and Dortmund apps. 

Looking back under SR we have spent big on players far down the list and regretted it. Onuachu and Sulemana come to mind. Perhaps loaning a supposed young talent and seeing how it goes is sensible from a financial perspective. We will have the opportunity to do something in January if needed.

The flip side of this is we simply have to go up this season and have taken £60m with add ons included (£51m guaranteed) for 2 of our key players that could have grown with us after a promotion. We are taking a gamble by not signing a proven player. CB a position where experience is often key. Have to pray it turns out more like a Lavia or Tino with pretty much zero first team experience but looked great from day one.

Fans will be understandably underwhelmed and rightly so. Let’s hope we are pleasantly surprised (assuming he signs).

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Posted

Underwhelmed but then I was very underwhelmed with Larin and he was superb so maybe this is another hidden gem. Does rather suggest we've missed out on who we wanted though.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, saintant said:

So we got good money for Charles and didn't replace him and good money for THB and look like replacing him with a young inexperienced lad with potential. The money situation must be dire.

I would imagine Schlotterbeck may be seen as the THB replacement and Zach Abbott covers Quarsie’s departure?

Still wouldn’t surprise me if we nailed one of the other CBs linked.

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