Guided Missile Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ....because I am. This is why. According to the Echo, deals for the sale of two of our most valuable assets, Surman and McGoldrick, could be decided today. Now, the only way that this could happen, IMHO, is for the Pinnacle consortium to agree to the sale, as they hold an exclusive position with regard to the purchase of assets from SLH, ie, no other party can agree to buy these players without their agreement. So....I would have hoped that before this happens, a discussion, however brief, would be held with our existing manager or our new manager on whether he wants to keep the two best young players in our squad. I really want the shy multi-multi-millionaire to complete the deal, but I would have rather that these player sales were agreed after the new management structure was in place and the players were back at training. Still, that's just me, nervous post-Wilde and pre-asset stripper. I look forward to the well-informed posters to explain the timing of these transfers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ....because I am. This is why. According to the Echo, deals for the sale of two of our most valuable assets, Surman and McGoldrick, could be decided today. Now, the only way that this could happen, IMHO, is for the Pinnacle consortium to agree to the sale, as they hold an exclusive position with regard to the purchase of assets from SLH, ie, no other party can agree to buy these players without their agreement. So....I would have hoped that before this happens, a discussion, however brief, would be held with our existing manager or our new manager on whether he wants to keep the two best young players in our squad. I really want the shy multi-multi-millionaire to complete the deal, but I would have rather that these player sales were agreed after the new management structure was in place and the players were back at training. Still, that's just me, nervous post-Wilde and pre-asset stripper. I look forward to the well-informed posters to explain the timing of these transfers.... I'd like to help you out here GM but like you I am concerned as well - unless the income from these two players leaving was all part of the "deal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 those at the club will know whether there is any realistic chance of these players staying - if they and their agents are dead set that they won't play in this division then best get rid and let the (new?) manager build his team. Would be nice to think a new owner and manager could persuade them to stay but we all know players follow the lure of money and higher divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I may point out that the players will pretty much decide whether they want to stay, not the club. Do you really expect DMG, Surman, Lallana etc to want to play in league 1?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I may point out that the players will pretty much decide whether they want to stay, not the club. Do you really expect DMG, Surman, Lallana etc to want to play in league 1?? No who would, but they have to acknowledge they are partly the reason we are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Someone pointed out in another thread(don't know if true) that the FA hold onto any transfer money until the admin process complete, so if true fail to see how OUR club, new owner, administrator benefits from such sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Do you really expect DMG, Surman, Lallana etc to want to play in league 1??Personally speaking, yes I fully expect they will want to play for SFC in League 1.....at least until the January window when everyone can take stock of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I may point out that the players will pretty much decide whether they want to stay, not the club. Do you really expect DMG, Surman, Lallana etc to want to play in league 1?? They proved last season that they are League 1 standard players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Mighty Mac having signed a big contract for very good money also had a clause if relegated he is offski for no less than a mil....This could also apply to other players... Agents who would have them. My opinion is as good as most but not that good to be honest...Luv sum posters but boy are they trying...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I heard a couple of weeks ago that Surman was off. If a player and his moneygrabbing agent decide its in his best interest then he will go. I understand what you are getting at GM, that even if we have a multi-millionaire the exodus of quality is still happening. In the Lynam letter it stated that the club will have to be run as a pretty much self sufficient - I expect to lose Surman, Lallana, Rasiak, Saga and Schneiderling at least its the law of the jungle as we are now Div 3 and spent years raiding other clubs for their talent and now its our turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 The critical issue will be whether Fry insisted (oh sorry- negotiated aggressively) on the sale of the players to "improve" the cash level of a bid OR whether the buyers are doing this as a means of cleaning up the squad and the wage bill for next season. Nobody will really care, but this was an important part of those negotiations. Who gets the cash? If they are being sold this quickly, then there is a good chance that the money is going straight to the creditors. In the Dyer case that was nailed on, it could be that it is one or the other of DMG & Surman. No conspiracies, just the difference between the cost and the price of coming out of the admin period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 3 June, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Leicester City retained most of their squad and added players like Paul Dickov when they went down.....and then came straight back up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 No who would, but they have to acknowledge they are partly the reason we are there. Lol...........like the last lot, who took us down from the Prem. Lets face it, they don't care anymore, all they care about, is their wallets. IMHO of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 They proved last season that they are League 1 standard players. I'm 99% sure you will be proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Or staff wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Or staff wages Or Leon's loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Leicester City retained most of their squad and added players like Paul Dickov when they went down.....and then came straight back up....I expect we will retain most of our squad too (rightly or wrongly). Leicester did ship one or two of their regulars didn't they - Hume for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Or Leon's loan Uncle Leon will deserve it...TOP man and I have to think of the family heirlooms when the good old bugger passes on....If Jacko or Greeney need a loan give me a shout or is that dream dead now.....Phil I am only joking:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I expect we will retain most of our squad too (rightly or wrongly). Leicester did ship one or two of their regulars didn't they - Hume for example? What?? As in all 58 players who received payment of wages in some form last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareham saint phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 If any of our players dont want to help us try to get out of the league they helped put us in, then bye bye lets get as much as we can for them and move on. We need 100% commited players at the club next year, and after seeing the above mentioned players "play" last season i really wouldn't be sorry to see them go McGoldrick: how many of us wanted him off the pitch and were dismayed when the manager took someone else off instead, yes he scored goals but not nearly enough and cant take a penalty for ****.. Surman:At least showed abit of passion but can count games after xmas on one hand Lallana:skillful yes but after the january window closed he done nothing Schneiderlin: Did he ever put a tackle in did he ever dictate the play with his wonderful range of passing and skill.....no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Leicester City retained most of their squad and added players like Paul Dickov when they went down.....and then came straight back up.... Well we are not in a position to add anyone yet are we? Until Pinnacle have actually taken over and I am still deeply concerned it may go wrong our squad will not be sorted. Players are mercenaries and will go where the money is...Gareth Barry is a classic example of that why Man City and not Liverpool or stay at Villa who finished higher? I am 99.9% certain Forest wil offer far more than he will be getting here plus its no secret McGoldrick wants to move back to Nottingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Uncle Leon will deserve it...TOP man and I have to think of the family heirlooms when the good old bugger passes on....If Jacko or Greeney need a loan give me a shout or is that dream dead now.....Phil I am only joking:D ;-) No way was I having a dig at Leon, he kept the club running long enough to come out of admin. No argument there. But his loan will have been secured somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ;-) No way was I having a dig at Leon, he kept the club running long enough to come out of admin. No argument there. But his loan will have been secured somehow. Phil....you claim to know a lot....who's told you it was a loan. I've been told something completely different, and that he has used his own money to bail us out, with no prospect of getting it back. Just asking!! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Leicester City retained most of their squad and added players like Paul Dickov when they went down.....and then came straight back up.... but they were owned outright by Mandaric, didn't have 10 point deduction and if they had debts/creditors could pay them! Surman wants to go as he's had enough of the instability at the club for the last two years - and needs to develop/progress as a footballer - that's not going to happen in League 1 this season he's taken a step back and now needs to take two forwards to get back to where he should be as an ex England U21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Tisdale had to sell players, no money to spend, played attractive football in low division and got promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 3 June, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 June, 2009 but they were owned outright by Mandaric, didn't have 10 point deduction and if they had debts/creditors could pay them! We are about to be owned by a man as rich as Mandaric and will have no creditors and a director in Matt LeTiss worth far more than 10 points next season. What player would want to leave a set up that is planning to return the club to the Premiership within 5 years....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Tisdale had to sell players, no money to spend, played attractive football in low division and got promotion I recognised his potential/man management/leadership/football knowledge and a man who could end up wearing a cravat......When he was a youth player at Saints:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Phil....you claim to know a lot....who's told you it was a loan. I've been told something completely different, and that he has used his own money to bail us out, with no prospect of getting it back. Just asking!! Regards I did mention why quite openly a couple of times. OK, so IMHO, Leon stepped up to bail us out when we needed to pay the wages before the end of the playing season. That we know as a prublished fact As we all believe that Leon is a successful businessman, we can make an assumption that the conversation could have gone something like this.. I can help out by giving you a loan of last resort. I understand it is a risk, but as long as the club is rescued from administration then I would like to have my money back please. How can we do that? So my guess would be that he became some form of a secured creditor. Perhaps that security was against the income from the Legends match, perhaps from some form of special guarantee or perhaps some form of a charge over the sale of a player. However it could as easily be Fry kept the right to sell some players to raise the amount of money paid or it could be that Pinnacle guys have a very good plan already for how they see the squad next year. Just trying to extrapolate the possibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Well we are not in a position to add anyone yet are we? Until Pinnacle have actually taken over and I am still deeply concerned it may go wrong our squad will not be sorted. Players are mercenaries and will go where the money is...Gareth Barry is a classic example of that why Man City and not Liverpool or stay at Villa who finished higher? I am 99.9% certain Forest wil offer far more than he will be getting here plus its no secret McGoldrick wants to move back to Nottingham. No, Barry is not a classic example. He has given Villa 11 years of superb service, he made an agreement with O'Neil last season to stay one more when he actually wanted away then, he has probably considered whether he would play regularly at Liverpool (Robbie Keane) and he has probably been given assurances by MC regarding other players coming in. Mercenary? My arse! Good luck, Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie@home Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Leicester lost a few players, but when it's not your own team you don't take too much notice of it at the time - it depends who replaces them. All players had meetings with Wotte and were asked whether they wanted to stay - I think it's highly unlikely that McGoldrick and Surman said yes. In which case, there is no point paying their wages over the summer - I'm sure the players will have learnt of interest from other clubs some time ago. It's always the same when clubs get relegated - most of the Newcastle players have promised to stay and get them promoted. In reality, they will get left with the duffers on huge wages that nobody wants; the best players will leave, whoever ends up owning the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 No, Barry is not a classic example. He has given Villa 11 years of superb service, he made an agreement with O'Neil last season to stay one more when he actually wanted away then, he has probably considered whether he would play regularly at Liverpool (Robbie Keane) and he has probably been given assurances by MC regarding other players coming in. Mercenary? My arse! Good luck, Gareth. Great comment about him and footballers in general http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sandymacaskill/blog/2009/06/02/if_gareth_barry_does_move_to_manchester_city_it_will_be_an_embarrassment_not_only_for_him_but_for_aston_villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 think Barry is being unfairly criticised. Most player chase money - he is no worse. He may not have an offer from a Champions League side. His choice maybe Villa or City. City may not be champions league but they have amuch higher chance of cup success and being towards top of league next year than villa. If they sign a couple more defenders they could be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Perhaps Mlt and the owners in waiting do not actually rate the likes of Surman and McGoldrick etc and would rather ship them out and use the funds for players more suited to league 1 style football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 There was a lot of controversy at the time he joined Villa about the way that they lifted him from Brighton as a youngster. Is there any sell-on clause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancelot link Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Just a thought - if they really do go, its probably because they entered into contract talks before the deal was done IMO - and most contracts in this game are binding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 If they don't want to be part of the renaissance then get rid........the club needs players who WANT to be there and play in Championship with Saints..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 If I were good enough I would not want to play in Div 1. If they're contractually entitled to leave if relegated or throw hissy fits, better to cash in now rather than keep paying their wages and leave them to go for free. Beggars can't be choosers in Div 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Both these players would probably do very well in the third division and i woudl like to keep them. It is essential that we bounce back this comign season - like Leicester did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I'm not bothered at all We're clearly going to lose players who don't want to play in League 1 In fact, for the new owners, it's a good time to get shot of them - before we start pre-season training, and they can get on with the job of finding committed players Worst case scenario is Pinnacle's bid falling through, in which case the Sale of Surman & DMcG will keep the club afloat until Mark Fry concludes a deal with someone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPY Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Just a thought - if they really do go, its probably because they entered into contract talks before the deal was done IMO - and most contracts in this game are binding Only if they're completed. We'd then have to accept a fee for the deal to go through which could easily be stopped by the player saying they want to stay and the club would pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 I don't think it is any more sinister than the fact that we've been bought by someone who seems to value the property he is purchasing more than the club, who works through a property consultancy and who doesn't plan to invest millions to keep and expand the quality within our squad. But we're in business and given where we were a few days ago that looks pretty appealing. I'd suggest we all get used to being run on the organic finances that a League 1 team can generate which will mean cashing in on our saleable assets when we can. That will probably mean selling before we can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 We have been told that some of the Pinnacle backers dropped out when they realised it would cost them money so maybe the Surman and McG sales are needed to make the deal work. Then there's the statement that the club can be run as a business which suggests we'll continue to be a selling club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 all clubs are selling clubs except Man City! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Out of interest, does anybody know how much Leeds (as a vaguely comparable club) have spent putting their team together? Just interested in whether they're spending or having to rely on free transfers etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Out of interest, does anybody know how much Leeds (as a vaguely comparable club) have spent putting their team together? Just interested in whether they're spending or having to rely on free transfers etc... looks like mix including many own grown and non-league - cracking photo of ex-saint! http://www.leedsunited.com/page/PlayerProfileIndex/0,,10273,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ....because I am. This is why. According to the Echo, deals for the sale of two of our most valuable assets, Surman and McGoldrick, could be decided today..... Does anyone take what you read in The Echo as gospel anyomore........they turned into just another tabloid in regard to Saints years ago when they went "Daily" rather than evening, and dare I say it, G.Hiley went to Saintsfc.co.uk Well gone are the days of reading the Echo to "find out the truth"!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ....because I am. This is why. According to the Echo, deals for the sale of two of our most valuable assets, Surman and McGoldrick, could be decided today. Now, the only way that this could happen, IMHO, is for the Pinnacle consortium to agree to the sale, as they hold an exclusive position with regard to the purchase of assets from SLH, ie, no other party can agree to buy these players without their agreement. So....I would have hoped that before this happens, a discussion, however brief, would be held with our existing manager or our new manager on whether he wants to keep the two best young players in our squad. I really want the shy multi-multi-millionaire to complete the deal, but I would have rather that these player sales were agreed after the new management structure was in place and the players were back at training. Still, that's just me, nervous post-Wilde and pre-asset stripper. I look forward to the well-informed posters to explain the timing of these transfers.... I must be missing something here. Is the paper version of the Echo saying different to the internet one? The version I'm looking at says Dyer deal gone through because agreed before exclusivity period, all others put on hold. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4414561.Dyer_deal_goes_through/ K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 If they don't want to play for us in L1 there's little we can do about it, and for that matter if they don't want to play for us they are not worth keeping. That said this is an Echo story so it's 50/50 whether it's true or not anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 ....because I am. This is why. According to the Echo, deals for the sale of two of our most valuable assets, Surman and McGoldrick, could be decided today. Now, the only way that this could happen, IMHO, is for the Pinnacle consortium to agree to the sale, as they hold an exclusive position with regard to the purchase of assets from SLH, ie, no other party can agree to buy these players without their agreement. So....I would have hoped that before this happens, a discussion, however brief, would be held with our existing manager or our new manager on whether he wants to keep the two best young players in our squad. I really want the shy multi-multi-millionaire to complete the deal, but I would have rather that these player sales were agreed after the new management structure was in place and the players were back at training. Still, that's just me, nervous post-Wilde and pre-asset stripper. I look forward to the well-informed posters to explain the timing of these transfers.... It made the amount that Pinnacle have to fork out to the administrators and creditors much less, and leaves the new manager with more funds to build his own squad ? I personally am quite happy to see a spring-clean of the cobwebs of failure. Surman was apparently awful at times last season, and McG is a lazy arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 June, 2009 Share Posted 3 June, 2009 Any other transfers Ist July ? When new owners will make final decision or is that tripe ottery....Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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