Hats off to the EDL

Two members of the English Defence League climbed onto the roof of Fifa's headquarters in Zurich with a banner protesting against the ban.

A Fifa spokesman confirmed the protest is ongoing and that Swiss police were in attendance.

The two protesters displayed a banner with two poppies on which read: "English defence League. How dare Fifa disrespect our war dead and wounded. Support our troops."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8879366/English-Defence-League-in-Fifa-roof-protest-over-England-team-Remembrance-Day-poppies.html

:toppa:

and they managed to pick their only member without a dog and a shaven head. Obviously learning. Having said that as banners on buildings go its a bit small isn't it? More of a small poster.

Surely the "defence" in "English defence League" should have a capital 'D'...?

I'd have respected him much more if he'd been wearing Stone Island and no white trainers

I notice that the meathead himself isn't wearing a poppy...

A hinderance rather than a help on the part of these helmets.

and they managed to pick their only member without a dog and a shaven head. Obviously learning. Having said that as banners on buildings go its a bit small isn't it? More of a small poster.

The penny's dropped! EDL stands for eccentric dog lover!

The penny's dropped! EDL stands for eccentric dog lover!

When one of their marches was diverted by the police past our house that did appear to be the case. Also the bloke in the photo is also atypical in that he does not have a can of drink in one hand or to be wearing anything made out of or displaying the union flag.

Shame that they used it to try and score party political points, would have been more powerful and impressive if they'd stuck a huge poppy on the top rather than branded with the incorrectly punctuated "English defence League" logo.

Is it just me that doesn't think the whole fifa banning the poppy thing isn't a big deal?

I notice that the meathead himself isn't wearing a poppy...

 

He's holding up two giant poppies FFS.

Is it just me that doesn't think the whole fifa banning the poppy thing isn't a big deal?

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

Is it just me that doesn't think the whole fifa banning the poppy thing isn't a big deal?

Personally i think Fifa made it into a big deal by saying it is a political thing when really it isn't. It is about remembering the people who died to give people such as Mr Blatter the freedom to live their lives.

I think we should go ahead with wearing it regardless of what Fifa say simply because it shouldn't have anything to do with them. It is a friendly being held in England on rememberance weekend.

Who is actually going to be outraged at us wearing poppies? Would those people be able to be outraged and have the freedom to say what they want under a facist regime? Doubtful.

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

 

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

Totally, its a slippery slope and eventually could get fairly imflamatory symbols on team shirts.

Shame that they used it to try and score party political points, would have been more powerful and impressive if they'd stuck a huge poppy on the top rather than branded with the incorrectly punctuated "English defence League" logo.

Isn't the English '3 lions' emblem a symbol of equal historic nationalistic significance too? Perhaps FIFA should exercise some consistency and stipulate that the badges on international football shirts should only show non-nationalistic symbols?

(cue the historians to shoot down my thinly veiled attempt to compare apples with oranges...)

;-)

Edit: just thought, is there anything stopping any national side from changing the country's badge on their kits? I see a simple solution to this....

Is that Terry Butcher in the photo?

Is that Terry Butcher in the photo?

Thought it was a younger souey on steroids minus the mo

Surely the "defence" in "English defence League" should have a capital 'D'...?

first thing I noticed...sad really on my part.

Personally i think Fifa made it into a big deal by saying it is a political thing when really it isn't. It is about remembering the people who died to give people such as Mr Blatter the freedom to live their lives.

I think we should go ahead with wearing it regardless of what Fifa say simply because it shouldn't have anything to do with them. It is a friendly being held in England on rememberance weekend.

Who is actually going to be outraged at us wearing poppies? Would those people be able to be outraged and have the freedom to say what they want under a facist regime? Doubtful.

When politicians start opening their mouths, it does become political.

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

 

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

Some emblems of acknowledgement would be accepted. War atrocities should never be recognised positively anywhere, however, if you speak to many soldiers they do have respect for their enemies. I've met many soldiers who have nothing but respect for the Argentinian soldiers who fought in the FI, even though many were nothing more than conscripts. Today I work with service personnel and the Taliban as fighters are also respected by many soldiers.

It's a difficult one to call, personally I would allow the poppy to be worn, but not allow it to set a precedence. It's not unusual for soldiers of different side to respect each other - they do what they do at the will of the politicians.

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

 

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

yep, totally agree

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

 

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

I agree. FIFA are between a rock and a hard place on this one. FIFA have to look after World football, that includes Countries who would maybe want to disply anti Isreali Paraphernalia, or stuff in praise of wars we dont consider just or honourable. FIFA have to police over 200 nations, some of which will consider (wrongly in my opinion) that wearing the poppy is a political jesture.

Are the EDL how we eventually get to the events of V fo Vendetta?

For once, I'm in agreement with FIFA. Precedent is important, and apart from one England-Germany unofficial international in No Man's Land in December 1914, football has had nothing to do with war.

FIFA has backed down.

When one of their marches was diverted by the police past our house that did appear to be the case. Also the bloke in the photo is also atypical in that he does not have a can of drink in one hand or to be wearing anything made out of or displaying the union flag.

EEhhh? surely an "English" defence league should have a St Geroge not a union jack?

Some emblems of acknowledgement would be accepted. War atrocities should never be recognised positively anywhere, however, if you speak to many soldiers they do have respect for their enemies. I've met many soldiers who have nothing but respect for the Argentinian soldiers who fought in the FI, even though many were nothing more than conscripts. Today I work with service personnel and the Taliban as fighters are also respected by many soldiers.

 

It's a difficult one to call, personally I would allow the poppy to be worn, but not allow it to set a precedence. It's not unusual for soldiers of different side to respect each other - they do what they do at the will of the politicians.

Ask any nob on x-factor or premiership footballer or TOWIE feck parading a poppy or indeed lemming on the street what the poppy means - and you'll get glazed looks, vacuous responses and push come to shove something about 'our dead' rather than the general costs and sacrifices of war. Its one reason why I've always chosen to associate the poppy with WWI rather than WWII, a war that did nobody any favours and was turning point in European psyche and history. Morons like Dune should also realise that's why so many are also committed to the European project -at least in spirit.

Our culture makes it hard enough to engage in genuine reflection and remembrance; I would be more comfortable if it was made private. At least, it would force people to think and confront the meaning of things. And that means taking it out of things like football.

Are the EDL how we eventually get to the events of V fo Vendetta?

 

For once, I'm in agreement with FIFA. Precedent is important, and apart from one England-Germany unofficial international in No Man's Land in December 1914, football has had nothing to do with war.

football has caused two countries to go to war.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

EEhhh? surely an "English" defence league should have a St Geroge not a union jack?

True. It was probable St george's crosses now you mention it. Wandering round drunk wearing bits of flags anyway.

Ask any nob on x-factor or premiership footballer or TOWIE feck parading a poppy or indeed lemming on the street what the poppy means - and you'll get glazed looks, vacuous responses and push come to shove something about 'our dead' rather than the general costs and sacrifices of war. Its one reason why I've always chosen to associate the poppy with WWI rather than WWII, a war that did nobody any favours and was turning point in European psyche and history. Morons like Dune should also realise that's why so many are also committed to the European project -at least in spirit.

 

Our culture makes it hard enough to engage in genuine reflection and remembrance; I would be more comfortable if it was made private. At least, it would force people to think and confront the meaning of things.

This. Top post as is Bridge too fars at al.

EDL = absolute c***s

Are the EDL how we eventually get to the events of V fo Vendetta?

 

For once, I'm in agreement with FIFA. Precedent is important, and apart from one England-Germany unofficial international in No Man's Land in December 1914, football has had nothing to do with war.

Possibly so Pap, but football get's involved in all manner of politics, it is against racism and actively seeks to highlight and oust such issues from society - but racism is not a football problem. How often are 2 minute silences held in football stadiums for totally non related football tragedies. The poppy is a symbol of respect in remembering fallen heros - it mocks no other soldier or nation.

Even if the players do not wear poppys on their shirts, I would imagine that they will be fairly prominantly displayed somewhere in the stadium - so they will be seen. Will be interesting to see whether any offence is actually caused I guess.

FIFA has backed down.

A victory for the EDL.

:toppa:

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

I think the Poppy is for all war dead, regardless of nationality so the Argies, Japs or Wops are already included. You would have to be a bit of a **** to have a problem with any country honouring their dead.

football has caused two countries to go to war.........

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War

Interesting title. I went one further and read the article as well as the title

Although the nickname "Football War" implies that the conflict was due to a football game, the causes of the war goes deeper. The roots of the war were issues over land reform in Honduras and immigration and demographic problems in El Salvador. Honduras is more than five times the size of neighbouring El Salvador, but in 1969 El Salvador had a population that was more than double that of Honduras.

 

At the beginning of the twentieth century, Salvadorans had begun migrating to Honduras in large numbers. By 1969, more than 300,000 Salvadorans were living in Honduras. These Salvadorans made up twenty percent of the peasant population of Honduras.[3] In Honduras, as in much of Central America, a large majority of the land was owned by large landowners or big corporations. The United Fruit Company owned ten percent of the land, making it hard for the average landowners to compete. In 1966, the United Fruit Company banded together with many other large companies to create la Federación Nacional de Agricultores y Ganaderos de Honduras (FENAGH; the National Federation of Farmers and Livestock-Farmers of Honduras). FENAGH was anti-campesino as well as anti-Salvadoran. This group put pressure on the Honduran president, General Lopez Arellano, to protect the property rights of wealthy landowners.[4]

 

In 1962, Honduras successfully enacted a new land reform law.[5] Fully enforced by 1967, this law gave the central government and municipalities much land occupied illegally by Salvadoran immigrants and redistributed this land to native-born Honduran peoples as specified by the Land Reform Law. The land was taken from both immigrant farmers and squatters regardless of their claims to ownership or immigration status. This also created problems for Salvadorans and Hondurans who were intermarried with each other. Thousands of Salvadorans were displaced by this law and were forced to emigrate once again. Salvadoran newspapers then heightened the already stressed relationship between the two countries by showing the many supposed atrocities being committed against Salvadorans in Honduras. This general rise in tensions ultimately led to a military conflict[citation needed]

 

Thousands of Salvadoran labourers were expelled from Honduras, including both temporary harvest workers and longer-term settlers. This general rise in tensions ultimately led to a military conflict.

It's a bit like saying that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand caused the Great War, which of course, it didn't. It triggered the war, but the real cause was massive armament across Europe, imperialism and total ignorance of what was to follow.

Despite the catchy name, The Football War wasn't caused by a disagreement over the offside rule.

Ask any nob on x-factor or premiership footballer or TOWIE feck parading a poppy or indeed lemming on the street what the poppy means - and you'll get glazed looks, vacuous responses and push come to shove something about 'our dead' rather than the general costs and sacrifices of war. Its one reason why I've always chosen to associate the poppy with WWI rather than WWII, a war that did nobody any favours and was turning point in European psyche and history. Morons like Dune should also realise that's why so many are also committed to the European project -at least in spirit.

 

Our culture makes it hard enough to engage in genuine reflection and remembrance; I would be more comfortable if it was made private. At least, it would force people to think and confront the meaning of things. And that means taking it out of things like football.

Whilst I respect your opinion, I would have to disagree with some things. I understand your frustrations about how some young people may not understand the debt that we owe those who served. But perhaps that is just a product of poor schooling in conveying the importance and sacrifices of the WW. I don't really understand the rational behind relating the poppy to only those that fell during WW1 - many since have also died.

I would respect your right to reflect privatly without the need of a poppy - but that symbol itself does heighten awareness and remembrance worldwide, whilst secondary (and less importantly) raising millions of pounds for service personnel charities.

I seem to recall the saying 'wear your poppy with pride' and I subscribe to that, but also respect your view to merely 'remember with pride'.

A victory for the EDL.

 

:toppa:

Dune, please. Nobody changed their mind, because two nutters from the EdL got on the roof. Tasteless mockery is probably not the order of the day on this one.

FIFA has backed down.

Nice one Dave :-)

A victory for the EDL.

 

:toppa:

You're a lunatic.

Ask any nob on x-factor or premiership footballer or TOWIE feck parading a poppy or indeed lemming on the street what the poppy means - and you'll get glazed looks, vacuous responses and push come to shove something about 'our dead' rather than the general costs and sacrifices of war. Its one reason why I've always chosen to associate the poppy with WWI rather than WWII, a war that did nobody any favours and was turning point in European psyche and history. Morons like Dune should also realise that's why so many are also committed to the European project -at least in spirit.

 

Our culture makes it hard enough to engage in genuine reflection and remembrance; I would be more comfortable if it was made private. At least, it would force people to think and confront the meaning of things. And that means taking it out of things like football.

Absolutely this. If I want to respect, reflect, remember and grieve, I want to do it privately. I don't feel the need to 'share' these feelings - they're personal to me. This is one of the reasons why I don't understand the laying of hundreds of bunches of flowers for someone's who has died. Yes, the family and close friends if they want to, but people who didn't know the person who'd died?

And, going back to the poppies on the England football shirts, I think Cameron came close to destroying whatever argument there might have been in favour. The rules of FIFA state that there should be no governmental interference in its business. Prince William was fine - he's president of the English FA after all.

b

Nice one Dave :-)

Err nice one HRH I think you'll find (see my post above)

Common sense at FIFA....jeez whatever next?

How much did Cameron bung them from the public purse I wonder?

Interesting title. I went one further and read the article as well as the title

 

I didn't need to read it I already knew

 

 

 

It's a bit like saying that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand caused the Great War, which of course, it didn't. It triggered the war, but the real cause was massive armament across Europe, imperialism and total ignorance of what was to follow.

 

Despite the catchy name, The Football War wasn't caused by a disagreement over the offside rule.

Ahhh it's all cause and effect though. Everyone knows that WW1 was really caused in part by the Franco-prussian war of 1870 which of course had it's roots in German nationalism which were a cause of the Napoleonic wars which were etc etc.

Cause is all well and good but it's the trigger that is the important part in this case a couple of games of football are what kicked it off (no pun)

Ahhh it's all cause and effect though. Everyone knows that WW1 was really caused in part by the Franco-prussian war of 1870 which of course had it's roots in German nationalism which were a cause of the Napoleonic wars which were etc etc.

 

Cause is all well and good but it's the trigger that is the important part in this case a couple of games of football are what kicked it off (no pun)

Robert Newman says it was about oil - Berlin wanted to build a rail route direct to Bagdad and we werent pleased about that.

I absolutely respect anyone's right to wear a poppy. Two of my grandfathers served in WW2 so I support anyone wishing to show their personal respect to servicemen.

 

But I do think FIFA has a point. Just suppose the Argentine football team wanted to wear a symbol of respect for their servicemen killed in the Falklands War when they were playing against England. Or the Japanese, Italians or Japanese? Would we be happy about that?

 

I think it's admirable that British football clubs have a poppy emblem on their shirts at this time but I think if FIFA relax this rule they're laying themselves open to all sorts of 'variations'.

Agree with this. Also "From Afar" it has been noticeable how much more important The Poppy has become in recent years.

Amazingly we can actually now buy Poppies down here from the local Spinneys Supermarket which is a nice touch.

But interestingly, as moted in one of the Press articles today, England played Sweden on 10/11/2001 and no fuss was made and we didn't wear Poppy Shirts back then.

Fair play to the Marketing Department at EDL for recognising a cracking opportunity and pushing it through. (About all I will ever say in their support TBH)

Strange to find CAmeron, Prince William & The EDL all jumping onto the same bandwagon though.

Oh and another cynical comment - most of this was stirred up in Murdoch influenced media, the same day more Hacking revelations came out.

Fair play to everyone for finding the compromise with the arm bands though.

As Dr Who said - Nobody Dies today.....

Ahhh it's all cause and effect though. Everyone knows that WW1 was really caused in part by the Franco-prussian war of 1870 which of course had it's roots in German nationalism which were a cause of the Napoleonic wars which were etc etc.

 

Cause is all well and good but it's the trigger that is the important part in this case a couple of games of football are what kicked it off (no pun)

Ah, you can't really believe that.

The vast majority of football matches that have been played have not sparked a civil war immediately afterward. So why did the "Football War" happen? Was it because of the football itself, or the fact that mutual enmity had got to boiling point and both sides were ready to kick the shyte out of each other anyway?

If I've got a massive pile of wood liberally doused in petrol sitting in my back yard, does it really matter where someone throws the match?

A victory for the EDL.

 

:toppa:

Probably has more to do with Prince William sending a personal plea to FIFA,than some EDL pleb on a roof.

They are morons. I hate the EDL, a bunch of racist fascist thugs. I'd rather they were nowhere near this cause, but oh well.

They are morons. I hate the EDL, a bunch of racist fascist thugs. I'd rather they were nowhere near this cause, but oh well.

If your tree hugging friends had got out of bed they could have saved the day instead.

If your tree hugging friends had got out of bed they could have saved the day instead.

How can you be in bed and still hug a tree?